Dell VP criticizes Apple's 'green' initiatives, pot and kettle laugh in unison

Dell VP of Communities and Conversations Bob Pearson is ragging on Apple for its MacBook "Greenest Family of Notebooks" ads. In a post titled "The Real Meaning of Being Green," Pearson accuses Apple of not discussing environmental issues, making inaccurate claims and stating no goals, while touting Dell's energy efficient Latitude E-series and use of PVC / BFR-free components. Of course, the PC maker has had its fair share of eco-unfriendly practices over the years, including accusations from the ever-fickle Greenpeace last month that the company has withdrawn from its commitment to stop using PVC / BFR in its computers by the end of 2009 -- but why let little details get in the way of a good schoolyard fight?

[Hamidxa @ Dec 21st 2008 2:27AM]

Please Engadget,

Don't try to be so "unbiased" for our sake...

[dkrift @ Dec 21st 2008 2:33AM]

It's not bias when you receive a check, it's called advertisement.

[BobTurbo @ Dec 21st 2008 3:06AM]

I agree, the writer of this article is either terribly biased or uninformed.

Those of us who are not biased have come to understand that Apple are more about marketing then substance when it comes to many issues such as the environment, security, and so on. They have all kinds of ridiculous statements on their website, including some that say they are 'greener' then Dell. This is obviously just a case of Dell rightly correcting their misinformation and I also believe that Dell is a company that is significant more commited to environmentally-friendly practices then Apple or in fact any other major computer manufacturer.

[Orappa @ Dec 21st 2008 3:22AM]

excatly it is not biased when Engadget gets payd for the stories tey bring as ads. borring but true

[Ellianth @ Dec 21st 2008 3:54AM]

Lol, they're gonna take away your commenting privileges :P.

[War Machine @ Dec 21st 2008 3:56AM]

It's called an opinion, and they are certainly entitled to make use of it.

[sirnoobiu @ Dec 21st 2008 4:16AM]

if they dont like it they can shut down the site and find new jobs.

[Konstantin @ Dec 21st 2008 4:33AM]

Hey guys stop beating on Engadget for bias. Its really getting old and I feel like there is more discussion about that then the actual post most of the time. As for Dell vs. Apple its clear that Dell, having a huge portion of the market share, leaves a much bigger footprint on the environment then Apple does. Apple is a prominent company but they are not that big and wasteful when compared with some of their competitors.

[Paul Chapel @ Dec 21st 2008 5:24AM]

COME ON, does anyone really believe that this guy at Dell cares whether Apple cares about the environment. This guy at Dell had the nerve to say, "We wish Apple would make a difference rather than just making ads."

What he really wants Apple to do is to stop making computers because Dell is getting their butt kicked.

[A.C.E.R. @ Dec 21st 2008 5:38AM]

I usually just ignore the biased articles, but Engadget's pissy attitude about the whole thing lately somehow makes them 10x worse now.

[nikster @ Dec 21st 2008 8:34AM]

Biasers, low rank me.

How the hell is this biased? No-one's ever heard about this department at Dell, and no-one would care about it, until they pulled a Dvorak and started bashing Apple. Now, that's got everyone's attention. If you read the BS these corporate drones have released, it's just laughable. It reads like any other PowerPoint of a big faceless corporation. It deserves a proper kicking, or silent ignorance and the moving on to more interesting topics (after the second sentence).

This is not a biased-towards Apple article because the whole chain of reasoning, beginning with Apple claiming the MacBook to be the "greenest" in an ad, and ending with the rebuke, has no merit. If a company writes "greenest" in an ad, it's not something objectively verifiable - it's some sort of BS, obviously. Most people understand that and take it to mean "care was taken to reduce environmental impact". It's not that serious. Dell takes that and writes a rebuke using only marketing-bullshit catchphrases. That has even less merit, the debate is now in never-never land.

I think even mentioning this mess an an Engadget article is too much attention. But if you do you really have to make fun of it. I don't think Apple would care either way. That Apple is "cutting checks" to AOL is a serious allegation that's stupid. The Engadget editors like Macs. So do many other people. Who cares!

[Jack Storm @ Dec 21st 2008 8:36AM]

@ Paul

Are you sure Dell is getting their butts kicked by Apple? I mean i own a macbook but im pretty sure that Dell outsells Apple in the notebook department, and most likely by far.

[Izzy @ Dec 21st 2008 9:22AM]

Actually, if you go to the Greenpeace website, Dell has slipped in its green rated quite a bit this year. Not that Greenpeace is THE authority on being green. I have 25 Dells that I purchased for work, but after a BS propaganda statement like this guy made, I'm homebrewing any new purchases.

[dcoaster @ Dec 21st 2008 10:17AM]

Paul has a good point. If I were Dell, I would be nervous that the momentum is shifting the way it is now.

[LiQuiD_FuSioN @ Dec 21st 2008 10:22AM]

Guys, wtf? lol.

These kinds of comments are the reason why Engadget shut down the ability to reply for the Storm article. They don't like getting called out like that.

[Paul Chapel @ Dec 21st 2008 10:24AM]

Market share means nothing if you don't make any money with your product. I could sell a gallon of gas for 10 cents and grab business from Exxon and BP, but the expense of doing so would ruin my business. Dell has been in a similar situation for the last ten years. Yes, Apple has less marketshare, but they're worth almost four times as much as Dell and this guy at Dell is just pissed about it.

I mean, really, you think Ford gives a crap about the environmental record of Toyota? They don't give a crap and if they bring environmental issues up, it's just because they're trying to sell the public on a new hybrid, but it has nothing to do with personal convictions.

This Dell guy is full of shite.

[Rob Conway @ Dec 21st 2008 10:54AM]

I just wish these companies would stop worrying about being green in the first place! You're a big corporation! Someone else will fix the problem! Some one like me, who works in computer recycling! We'll come pick up the out of warranty products you've leased or sold to business and we'll recycle it for them! You don't have anything to worry about!

[cheng @ Dec 21st 2008 12:32PM]

do all of you realise that every time you call out engadget favouring apple or apple writing checks to engadget, you are viewing ads? so it's not apple writing checks to engadget, it's YOU. and this will only continue, unless you do something eg stop viewing apple stories.

[maveric101 @ Dec 21st 2008 12:37PM]

...yeah, how was this post so biased?

[AmishSniper @ Dec 21st 2008 1:09PM]

I wish someone would question Apple on their inability to discuss their actual accomplishments or features in an advertisement; they criticize Vista without actually showing or saying anything positive about their product and then in this ad they tell how their laptops compare to lightbulbs, but not other laptops or even their OWN previous laptops - we can't even tell from the ad if they have improved anything.
Has Apple advertising always been so evasive? Even their iPhone ads seem to be more interested in how great they are for playing games, rather than what makes it a great phone.

[Konstantin @ Dec 21st 2008 4:20PM]

Dell can say what they want but the fact of the matter is every company has exploited the green movement. Both Dell and Apple (and most other companies) market their computers as greener/ more energy efficient. Its kind of funny to see one company attacking another over something like this.

[Paul Chapel @ Dec 21st 2008 4:20PM]

Dell's current market cap: 21 Billion

Apple's current market cap: 80 Billion

Apple has 24 Billion in cash and no debt. That's right, which means they have more cash on hand than Dell is worth. Dell laid off 5,600 workers in Apirl 2008 and closed a desktop manufacturing plant in Austin, Texas. Apple, on the other hand, has extended their stores to 260 world wide.

Conclusion: Profit is more important than market share.




Go ahead and low rank me, but you know I'm right.

[UnixSystemsEngineer @ Dec 21st 2008 5:56PM]

They're all full of crap.

Greenpeace singled Apple out because of their popularity. It got a lot of press because Apple was popular.

Apple responded with this whole new green initiative that has Steve Jobs talking about it as if it's the most important thing to the company, which it's clearly not. I don't doubt that Apple's employees care about the environment, but it's obviously more of a PR move than anything.

And so now we have Dell pulling the exact same PR move despite not having much of a leg to stand on.

Greenpeace has a purpose, and I'm glad they try to keep companies in check, but their claims are as overblown as Apple and Dell's claims of being green.

[VanillaSpice @ Dec 21st 2008 9:01PM]

Shame how being anti-Apple can get you High Ranked even when you're speaking crap.

BobTurbo must be a Dell employee - if he'd done any independent research he'd know that this Dell release is full of outright lies about Apple's behaviour, and it also ignores Dell's own refusal to implement environmental programmes that it has previously promised. Apple is far from the greenest company but Dell is, if anything, worse; and this release of theirs demonstrates clearly their own dissemination of misinformation.

What is a real shame is that he gets high ranked, mostly I am guessing for this off-hander: "Those of us who are not biased have come to understand that Apple are more about marketing then substance" which ticks the boxes of the unthinking Engadget commentor/ranker - yes, anti-Apple, yes they're zero substance, yes an unsubstantiated claim of bias, love that, gonna +1 it.

No doubt I will get low ranked by the anti-Apple and "Engadget is biased" crowds, but for the record, Mr Turbo, Apple's contribution to the computer industry, particularly their expensive R&D into user interfaces that actually serve the user (not the programmer), is far beyond your ability to deny. Apple are about marketing (all companies are, after all) but to mistake that as meaning that they must therefore be "no substance" just demonstrates how little you have researched (or even thought about) this topic.

[Saad Rabia @ Dec 21st 2008 2:28AM]

What's new about an Apple ad?
You want to tell me that people actually believe that green crap Apple talk about?!

[Thats What He Said @ Dec 21st 2008 3:04AM]

or do people even care if its green, thats the sad part

[KarlW @ Dec 21st 2008 9:51AM]

This guy is totally bogus. One of his complaints is that Apple aren't "joining in the discussion" on climate change because they don't blog about it. I'd shut him down and give his organs back to the earth.

And yes, I think a lot of people at Apple do care about the environment, as do lots of people in all industries. If you're making goods, you have a duty to make sure you are being responsible with your choices. Consumers now want to buy the most responsible products, so that's what gets advertised now, and companies start bickering about who's really being mature.

[hangfire @ Dec 21st 2008 2:28AM]

it keeps amazing me how many people love to hate apple.

[Chin-Poh @ Dec 21st 2008 2:32AM]

It keeps amazing me how people love to love Apple. ; )

[who? @ Dec 21st 2008 2:37AM]

It keeps amazing me how many people love to hate people who hate loving people who hate people who love Apple. I think.

[franko @ Dec 21st 2008 2:42AM]

Calling someone out on blatant lies isn't "hating on" them. For example, when Apple's commercials mock Microsoft's advertisement budget, even though Apple's budget is significantly larger than MS's, that's dishonest. Pointing that out isn't hating, it's just... observing.

[Saad Rabia @ Dec 21st 2008 2:46AM]

who?, my brain got scratched trying to analyze that!

[ethana2 @ Dec 21st 2008 3:16AM]

It keeps amazing me how I can love and hate one non-individual entity so very much at the same time without ever having owned one of their products.

[souravgh @ Dec 21st 2008 1:32PM]

Agreed. Apple bashing suddenly got fashionable around here.
Apple makes good products and so they are popular. Period. i dont see why the hate is necessary.
i remember not long ago microsoft got the same treatment here.

[adrian @ Dec 21st 2008 2:12PM]

Dell needs to concentrate on sorting out their own problems.

[Darren @ Dec 21st 2008 2:32AM]

People still buy Dells?

[Saad Rabia @ Dec 21st 2008 2:35AM]

To keep it simple: yes.

[slycooper_rocker (lorddshadow the amazing) [anti-panda death squadron force five] @ Dec 21st 2008 2:49AM]

schools love 'em.

[Saad Rabia @ Dec 21st 2008 2:55AM]

If by schools you mean gamers, lawyers, CEOs, designer, filmmakers, hospitals, police, freelancers, and many more, then yes, schools love 'em.

[Thats What He Said @ Dec 21st 2008 3:06AM]

dont forget that Alienware is one of, if not the best gaming computer company in the US

[ethana2 @ Dec 21st 2008 3:17AM]

Yeah, but next time I'm thinking I may just go with System76 instead.

[HOOPER @ Dec 21st 2008 4:04PM]

No, Saad Rabia, he meant schools. Other than the twenty-something iMacs in our music tech lab, 100% of the computers at my high school are Dells.

[Jonah @ Dec 21st 2008 4:19PM]

@slycooper_rocker
a.k.a. lorddshadow the amazing
a.k.a. anit-panda death squadron force five

Wait...DAMNIT I FORGOT WHAT I WAS GOING TO SAY BECAUSE I HAD TO KEEP SCROLLING UP TO READ YOUR NAME
DAMN

[who? @ Dec 21st 2008 2:34AM]

Of all the things to make fun of Apple for, he picks this? Idiot.

[who? @ Dec 21st 2008 3:42AM]

It seems nobody else knows this, so I'll just add it in here:

Dell is very likely to be passed up by Apple on Greenpeace's quarterly ranking of the tech industry's environmentally conscientious behavior. They were already within 6% (4.1 vs 4.7 out of 10) of each other in September (end of Q3), and this was Apple's big quarter environmentally, especially in October (new MB, MBA, and MBP w/no arsenic in the glass and all elemental forms of bromine and chlorine eliminated). The changes made in October are actually the exact same stuff that they rank companies by.

I'm willing to bet that this is the proximal cause for this little tantrum by Dell's VP. As this year comes to a close, Dell realized that they were on the naughty list. I'd say the chances of them getting passed up are pretty high, but don't give up Dell fans- there's always a chance.

Ranking for 2006 (first ever): http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/news/toxic-technology-report-card
Ranking for 2008 (3rd quarter): http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/campaigns/toxics/hi-tech-highly-toxic/company-report-card
Apple's recent changes: http://www.apple.com/environment/

Facts are facts, and btw- Microsoft got 2.2, the worst apart from Nintendo (0.8 LOL)!

[BobTurbo @ Dec 21st 2008 6:42AM]

"Dell is very likely to be passed up by Apple on Greenpeace's quarterly ranking of the tech industry's environmentally conscientious behavior"

Says who exactly? I am sure the toxic fumes coming out of the Mac Pro will really lift Apple to the top.

"They were already within 6% (4.1 vs 4.7 out of 10) of each other in September (end of Q3)"

This is misleading. You make it sound like there is a small difference between them, when in fact each 0.1 of a point on their ranking could mean anywhere from 1% to 100000000% real world difference.

"The changes made in October are actually the exact same stuff that they rank companies by."

Yes but Apple already does fairly well in those categories. As it says on the report card, they need to improve on recycling and energy.

[rattyuk @ Dec 21st 2008 6:54AM]

@who?

"Dell is very likely to be passed up by Apple on Greenpeace's quarterly ranking of the tech industry's environmentally conscientious behavior."

This is very unlikely as the way Greenpeace work unfortunately is entirely based on hits. Like Engaget if they keep mentioning Apple they know they get hits on their hit pieces. Also Dell keep publishing things which say what they are GOING to do (rather than what they are actually doing) and Greenpeace ranks that as more important as actually doing anything.

[N30 G30 @ Dec 21st 2008 11:06AM]

"Facts are facts, and btw- Microsoft got 2.2, the worst apart from Nintendo (0.8 LOL)!"

Ahh, yes. Another person believing this crap that comes out of Greenpeace's hole. If you actually read the report, in nearly all categories, they couldn't find any information for Nintendo.

http://www.greenpeace.org/raw/content/usa/press-center/reports4/guide-to-greener-electronics-9.pdf

Facts are facts (LOL)!



I completely reject any of Greenpeace's findings because of this crap they pull over and over again.

[who? @ Dec 21st 2008 1:23PM]

@BobTurbo
I cited my sources and 6% is completely accurate. I'd love to know where you got your information, but... well, no. I actually wouldn't. Because it's wrong. 100000000% isn't accurate, it isn't even possible for them to achieve in any of the categories.

@N30 G30
Don't worry- nobody will force you to accept any facts. But that's just because nobody here cares (no offense).


We'll see when the report cards come in then, and there's no use bickering over it until then. I'm sure if I'm wrong you can all take a moment out of your lives to come back and gloat :P.

[projekt84 @ Dec 21st 2008 2:34AM]

isn't apple like the lowest ranked on greenpeace's technology ranking?