AMD, a company not exactly known for
meeting its own deadlines, seemed to be trying to avoid news of painful delays for the Phenom II by simply
not letting anyone say when the thing would be available. Now the chip is apparently in the hands of one lucky gamer at the
HardOCP forums, Table21, who was kind enough to run it through its paces. The Phenom II 940 running at 3GHz scored a 4,091 on 3DMark06 and, once OC'd up to 3.85GHz, delivered a score of 5,086. It's rather too early to draw any conclusions from these numbers, and we don't know what he paid for the thing, but that performance does fall well behind Intel's Core i7 Extreme that was
similarly benchmarked last month, scoring 6,608 at the same clock speed. That's quite a gap -- but nothing a little
liquid nitrogen won't fix.
[Via
PC Perspective]
posted Dec 23rd 2008 9:40AM
Close enough, if the price is right, and it can be easily overclocked it will win over a lot of people.
It seems like AMD has not had a good year on the other hand intel has already released the i7 line which is going to replace the Core 2 series. So I guess I'll keep sticking with intel until AMD stands up again.
But using AMD gives Intel a worry, and results in better products.
@pavlindrom
Would you knowingly purchase a slower processor?
For the living room/internet-only computer maybe? Well, I'd check the price first of course...
@rock99rock: AMD's chips have been slower recently, but not if you compare to the Intel at the same price point. And they get even cheaper when you look at motherboard costs. A really good AMD board can be had for under $100 whereas to get a decent Intel board you'll have to spend a lot more.
@iofthestorm
:)
Thats not entirely accurate, you just have to know where to look and when to buy. It is quite obvious that you get more bang for your buck with AMD on the short end. Mid to high end is owned by intel. It is unfortunate that AMD cant seem to "kick it up a notch" Emeril style, and sling past Intel at least once. ATI came close or did with Nvidia.
You have good points, and are valid when looking at pricepoints. In the end, this has always been the case.
The cheap boards from Gigabyte are excellent and can be had for 130ish.
With that said, buy AMD! Support them to keep Intel on their toes.
Long live AMD!
I don't think your Mac has (or ever will use) an AMD processor.
OSX86 Anyone?
68k Macs and Early PPC macs have AMD SCSI Controllers.
that's some mad random knowledge Dr. Robotnik. Remember kids, The More You Know™
The AMD proc seems very in-line with core i7 performance. The i7 in that link scored ~500 points more at 200mhz higher stock speed. Granted, it looks like the i7 oc'd better than the phenom, but I think some of you are forgetting how much Intel charges for it's Extreme line...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115200
Technically, AMD owns ATi, which makes GPU processors that can be used in Macs. So some Macs do use AMD processors. They're just located on the graphics board and have an ATi stamp on them.
Well, do keep in mind that this is an engineering sample instead of the final product (the chap's real lucky to get one like that)
Plus you can't compare 3DMark Scores directly. Any minor variations like RAM Speed, OS choice, even a polished BIOS, might result in big differences in conclusions.
Right. The processor being tested is running on an AM2 motherboard using ddr2 memory. The chips wont reach full potential until they are running on AM3 motherboards.
Too bad liquid nitrogen isn't available to the masses.... =)
Yeah...it is....any lab/medical supply store will have it and, at least here in Canada, there are no restrictions on purchasing it. I buy it all the time from a store by the University of Toronto that is open to the public....it's not even expensive.
I think you missed the implied issue of the feasibility of using this in an ordinary person's computer.....
Well, obviously, nobody uses liquid nitrogen on a regular basis to cool their home computer...as it is very impractical since the N2 just boils away in a few minutes/hours.
I was simply stating that yes, indeed, liquid nitrogen is available 'to the masses'...
This is still an AM2+ part which means DDR2 only. Why buy this CPU if you can get the AM3 socket and Phenom II that supports DDR3 in a couple of month. The AM3 part has also has a smaller TDP of 95W compared to the 940's 125W.
Because, for example, a 2GB DDR3 DIMM costs more than twice what an equivalent DDR2 DIMM costs, for relatively minor day-to-day performance increase. The TDP point, if accurate, interests me, but other than that, I suspect I might go for the AM2 part. Either way, I'll be waiting for AM3 part and watching how the memory market is at that point to make a decision.
Because DDR3 is expensive as hell and doesn't make much of a difference in terms of performance. I can get 4GB of DDR2 for $40 now, (and I'm about to sometime soon for virtualization purposes) but DDR3 will be nowhere near that price.
This is true, but it would account for some of the difference in the benchmarks. The i7 were tested using the top of the line DDR3 memory with a much larger bus and throughput. The increase would account for the some of the performance difference.
Besides, we don't even know which processors are being compared. Is the i7 they are talking about the $300 or the $1200 one? And for that matter, is this the Top end of the AMD Phenom II? For all we know at this point, this could be the low end, value model. It is just too early to start bashing AMD for no reason.
This is AM2+ model. The AM3 models will use DDR3 Like the core i7. There has been a 5% with pre production AM3 models already.
Add "increase" after 5%.
Are their going to be AM2 and AM3 socket versions of this processor, or is the AM2 version just an early release model? I'm all for upgrading to AM3, but on a budget right now, I may be inclined to just upgrade my processor, so I'm hoping there will be a large release of Socket AM2.
The first two processors are AM2+ but they won't work with AM3. AM3 processors that launch in February will work with AM2+ but will work with AM3 better. AM3 motherboards will be released around February time maybe march. The new motherboards with AM3 will have existing chipsets but new ones will be launched very soon. If you want to go AMD you're better waiting until May-June.
Thanks, maybe I will wait and do a whole mobo and processor upgrade in May. I don't have two graphics cards to run in SLI mode, but right if I wanted to run that on my M2N-SLI Deluxe mobo the speed drops from PCI Express x16 to x8. So, perhaps it will indeed be time to go AM3 and DDR3.
Two BIG caveats for that conclusion:
1. Intel's Core i7 Extreme costs OVER a grand. These are going to launch at under $300. Additionally, you should be able to use these CPUs on existing sub-$100 mainboards, and the cheapest i7 board costs over $300. That's 83% of the performance for ~25% of the price. I'm not good at math, but even I can do that.
2. As was stated, these are the DDR2 versions of the chip, we don't know the numbers on the DDR3 versions that would be a more equivalent match to the core i7 chips.
This cannot be understated. Vote that guy up. The platform as a whole is where people need to look. Also, a lot of readers who are gamers should know that the Core i7 really doesn't perform much better than the Core 2 Quads. So, yes, buying a Phenom II and the rest of its platform could net you as good of a gaming machine for MUCH less than any intel system provided you plunk down for the latest and greatest that ATI or Nvidia have to offer.
Couldn't agree with you more. Saying that I'm going Intel this time around. I need to build my computer soon. So If AMD are good enough by this time next year I will go AMD. Problem is by this time next year Core I7 will be in full swing. I honestly see six cores in high end processors by both AMD and Intel.
When I say going Intel I mean Core 2 not core i7.
Hate to burst your bubble, but the price is an exaggeration. An i7 costs 299.99. I still think Phenom II will get the price performance edge, but not by that large a margin.
Yes, but an i7EXTREME (which is what the post is talking about) costs $1050.
@mokoto42:
Yes, you are correct that the entry Core i7 920 is $300 but it is still only usable on X58 chipset motherboards which START at $290, and don't forget that the X58 motherboards run on TRIPLE channel DDR3 memory which range around $180-$200. So right there in its most basic form, the start of a Core i7 will run you nearly 800 bucks, almost double that if you use the 965 like in the article. We haven't even added Hard Drives, Graphics Cards, a Power Supply, a Case, better CPU cooling, etc. The Core i7 is a great CPU, it is. But many people out there with Current AMD systems really have in the Phenom II an excellent way to upgrade if they have AM2 motherboards now, and if you don't then starting a new AMD system from scratch is comparably much much cheaper than starting a spankin new Core i7 system.
Yes, I predict big AMD wins here.
Totally agree, but the high prices on the i7 / DDR3 / X58 are because it's just been released and there's no competition. By the time AMD puts out the AM3 sockets the Intel hardware will be priced to compete no doubt.
I'm an AMD guy, mainly because I like the words "efficiency" and "value". Love the 45W X2 parts. If you are looking at $500+ for the mobo+CPU though, Intel is in a much better position to make you an "offer you can't refuse".
If it is cheap, they will come...
Thats what HE said.
Core i7 that does 3.8 does not cost over a grand. An i7 920 will easily OC to 4.0 on air and costs under $300. a new mobo costs about $250.
While it is expensive, if you are on Intel right now, with 775, you would have to get a new mobo to switch to AMD anyway. Why wouldn't you then just buy X58 and i7, knowing it costs about the same, and with an i7 you get a faster chip.
Mainly because it wouldn't cost the same. AMD motherboards are cheaper than Intel motherboards (given feature parity), and this Phenom will run at roughly the same performance for 300$ as that i7 does for 1100$. Hell, for the cost of that Extreme Edition i7, you could build an entire system! That's ludicrous!!
core i7 does not use socket 775, so you need a new mobo anyway
Because x58 boards are expensive, comparatively speaking. If I go i7, I'm waiting for the mainstream chipsets to relase next year. AMD to their credit (or desperation), has consistently undercut Intel price wise on the processor part itself. We will have to wait to see how the market prices lower end i7 motherboards and what the Phenom II will cost in practice to get the complete picture, but I suspect I'll be building a Phenom II system because I suspect price/performance will be on their side.
X58 costs 2-3x as much as a top of the line AMD board. Game over.
Forgive me for being obtuse, but isn't 3DMark06 a -graphics- score? Wouldn't PCMark05 or PCMark Vantage been the better benchmark to run for some real information about the CPU?
This particular article is comparing the Phenom II and the Core i7 Extreme. Why are people are bring up the no extreme edition of the i7? Compare the non-Extreme i7 vs a Phenom II, what are the performance differences? Do we have a benchmark? Someone stated the price would be around the same, but what about the performance?
Here is what my Core i7 920 does in 3Dmark Vantage clocked to 3.5 (turbo enabled) No GPU PhysX.
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dmv=618853
AMD release date for Phenom II is Jan. 08, 2009.
That has been well publicised already, so all the snotty comments about meeting deadlines, etc. may be stuffed well up the back where they belong.
As others have mentioned, comparing this to an Intel i7 Extreme is retarded.
A $275 chip versus a $800 chip? Yeah, that makes sense..
Then comparing a CPU that needs a $150 to $200 motherboard versus one that needs a $450 motherboard?
The pricing of your boards have been greatly exagerated....
X58 boards can be had for $280-300. However, I have not seen a X965 going for $800. $1000 seems be be a bit closer to the going rate.
my 3.52ghz Q6600 gets a 5364 cpu score in 3dmark06... the Phenom II's numbers don't seem that impressive to me.
Even if you increase the speed of the Phenom 2 to 3.5, it will probably get not much better results (maybe around 5500 or 5600), so I see your point. Then again, we don't know your total system.
O really? For everyone thinking that AM2 is cheaper than LGA 1366.
If you have to switch platforms or upgrade from an older platform, AMD does not save you much money. Plus your performance is less.
Going Intel Core i7 is NOT 2 to 3 times more expensive than AMD.
If I were buying an AM2+ mobo this is what I would get. $249.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131292
Or maybe this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130160
Now say I buy a new Phenom (current gen) Phenom 9950 = $199
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103291
Total about $450.
Core i7 System:
Asus P6T Mobo $250
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131359
Core i7 920: $299
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115202
Total about $550.
Now which system is faster? For an extra hundred bucks, I would go Intel.
Personal preference, but you are simply on a better more advanced platform than an AMD AM2+ mobo with DDR2.
The Intel system in my opinion would last you much longer than the AMD.
i have never bought a motherboard for over $120 and never plan to. $250 for a motherboard is ludicrous. you're Asus's bitch for buying that expensive ass motherboard. it doesn't take a fucking $250 motherboard to run Crysis. Do you think the entire fucking world spends $250 on motherboards? jesus christ.
if only everyone was as wealthy as you, young one.
I think you missed the article that we're all looking at above. The new Phenom processors are FASTER than the old ones.
A bit crass, but when you're right you're right.
@ Millard
All you have to do is look at current gen stuff, people are STILL rocking P35 mobos over newer and vastly more expensive mobos. Why? Because they work just as well. Even after that you forgot to mention the huge price difference in memory for each system. Even when the AM3 boards come out they will still be dual channel instead of triple channel.
Oh my god, your a bona fide retard. You cherry pick some of the most expensive AMD stuff and set it up against the cheapest Core i7 cpu/mobo combo you can find, and to further things you conveniently left out RAM, that alone would cause the skewed intel cost to balloon. Flagship mobo vs a barebone mobo, pffft again retard.
going for parity
ASUS Rampage 2 $400
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131352
the ram
~$85 for 8gbof cas4 ddr2 vs ~$220 for 6gb of cas7 ddr3
4-5 extra fps or 30 less off my load times for $385, no thank you.
I wrote what I thought about this over at http://19incheswide.com/2008/12/23/feeling-sorry-for-amd/
A quick summary of it unless you want to read it. I thinkt aht AMD did a better job on their CPUs. I also think that gaming bench marks and benchmarks that do not do multi-threading will really allow an AMD to shine. imo.
Um, U Phenom II Haters!!!! If you people think this chip is not the sh@t U are out of your mine!!!! The test from this chip is a "bad chip" and NOT the soon to release one. You can not compare this chip with ANYTHING until the real chips come out and ONLY then you can talk your smack.
Table21 is testing this chip on a motherboard that is NOT even ready for this chip!!! He is on a AM2+ WITH A SOUTH BRIDGE OF 600!!! One of the weakest motherboard for this chip.
So, say that if this chip was on a "$150" 790GX/FX MB WITH A 750 SOUTH BRIDGE, it will give that Crapp-In-Tel I7 a slap in the A$$ for being soo pricey for no reason....
Also, the January release Deneb runs on DDR2 Memory, I7 runs on DDR3!!! 4+GHZ on a board thats not ready for a Phenom II and on DDR2??
@ Millard, You will be a dummy for buying a board like that as it's NOT needed unless you like to be bent over and I7 "920" don't count, It already lost!!!
$150 "or less" Mb + $275-$300 Deneb 940= Kicking I7's A$$
Over priced whore!!!
Enough said!!!!!
just give me the cache
I don't know whats going on in other countries but in greece (where i live) phenoms II are already out
phenom 940 goes for 300 euros
the phenom II it's supposed to arrive up to 5ghz if using liquid-nitrogen cooling, plus when seeing requirements for games or software to run in a pc, amd processors are at average 0.5ghz less requesting than intel processors, this meaning that they're better designed to run demandaing applications without going to the limits. and wen comparing the pre-order prices of the phenom II($300-$375), to the prices pf the i core 7($1000-$1250), you will definitely like the phenom II a lot more than the i core 7
Let's not forget that the $299 i7 is outperformed by the $199 Phenom (2.66 vs 3.00 GHz) and uses DDR2 RAM at $19.99 for a 2x2GB package compared to the i7's $74.99 for 2x2GB, and motherboards at $269.99 for a midrange compared to $139.99 for a midrange Phenom mobo. And let's not get into how the i7 Extreme is only 200MHz faster for about $879.99 more than the Phenom Black Edition.