Apple's said it's taking a break from adding flashy features to OS X to focus on the foundations and stability of the system with
Snow Leopard, and this latest leaked screenshot might indicate that those foundations are moving to 64 bits -- it shows System Preferences saying it needs to restart in 32-bit mode to open the Network panel. That's certainly interesting, given the rumors that Apple's
dropping support for non-Intel machines and maybe even 32-bit Intel processors with this release, but it could also just mean that whoever took this screenshot doesn't have a 64-bit-friendly version of that preference pane installed. (We're guessing the latter, since there are a lot of 32-bit only Core Duo Intel Macs out there.) Restarting apps to change modes seems pretty clunky, though -- shades of System 7 and the 32-bit Enabler, for the olds -- so we're hoping Apple's got a more elegant solution in the works. Macworld's just
around the corner, we're sure we'll hear more from
Steve Phil soon.
posted Dec 28th 2008 2:14PM
Looks like a fake to me.
The settings menu in the background is german while the error message is english.
Notice the .Mac icon. That's been replaced by MobileMe in Leopard.
Maybe the user likes running OS X in half-English and half-German.
It doesn't look like the background is completely in german, there are many words back there that I can read and I don't know any german.
The icons in English are trademarked Apple programs - QuickTime and Time Machine.
Dock? Sharing?
But it's still weird that "Sharing" isn't translated.
Man and I thought I was the lead user of DEnglisch.
It looks to me like there is a glitch in OS X when switching from 64-bit into 32-bit mode. And the word "Sharing" is usually not translated in German, as for a reference to computers and software, it would not make sense to be translated. It is called an "anglicism" and as such commonly used in a foreign language. They don't translate the word "computer" either, even though that would be "Elektronenrechner".
Actually I have the WWDC build and it does the same...
A bit late engadget....
Way to be a douche.
to be fair, superman is the lesser of the douches between you two. All the snow leopard builds about at the moment are largely similar, and have been distributed and copied more times than that picture of the tennis girl scratchig her butt, so 'most everybody who cares about Snow Leopard will have found out about everything already
Yeah Engadget, way to be late! Myself, as your avarage reader clearly knew this already. Oh wait, most people aren't readers like superdouche...
Hey Superman! You are violating your NDA by posting here. Better not let Apple catch you.
As a new MacBook owner, I don't know much about this stuff, but someone on another forum wrote this:
Engadget should really stick to writing stories about unboxing cell phones because they don't do a very good job on articles that require technical detail. Engadget, let me do your job for you:
System Preferences on OSX is an application that can use plugins so developers can centralize the configuration of their service into one standard UI front end that also includes the core system (first party) configuration utilities. All of the first party plugins will be 64-bit by the time Snow Leopard ships. The third party plugins will need to be re-compiled for 64-bit or the user will have to restart System Preferences in pure 32-bit mode.
Apple had a choice, break all third party plugins or give the end user the choice to wait 10 seconds and have System Preferences restart in 32-bit mode. Obviously they made the right choice. Mac developers are quick about updating -- in fact already several popular System Preferences plugins are 64-bit/Snow Leopard ready and it hasn't even been released yet. (including no public beta)
In the case of any normal application that is 32-bit only the end user won't see any difference. This specific feature only applies to applications that would need to host 32-bit third party plugins. The only other OSX apps I can think might need to use this feature would be Automator and QuickTime -- although I believe the Perian guys already have a 64-bit build out so that takes care of the #1 reason you'd want to run a QuickTime plugin.
Hawt dern Paul, now THERE'S a useful comment.
You taking notes Supers?
wasn't this known that after os x leopard apple is dropping (support) ppc and old intel chips?
Apple dropping support for PPC is an assumption... it is a very poorly thought out assumption that many have jumped onto as fact.
Or maybe there's a 16-bit mode coming?
See, this solution to switching from 64 bits to 32 bits (restarting) proves why apple is shit
And Microsoft is a greater shit because they release 32 and 64 bit versions SEPARATELY because they want to charge more for the better (still sucky) software.
And another OS handles it better? OS X will simultaneously run 64-bit and 32-bit applications at the same time.
This is purely an issue because System Preferences runs like a plug-in architecture. You can see the different preference 'files' in the finder. The network prefs are still in 32-bit. I'm sure by release that Apple will have re-compiled the remaining preference panes to run 64-bit. Its just the third party ones to watch out for.
'leaked snow leopard image that potentially indicates...' '..proves why apple is shit'
I lal'd so hard. A slightly clunky feature in a pre release beta? Surely not! Wait.... Windows Vista (SP1) AND current builds of W7 are both less stable than the dev builds of leopard and snow leo. I think Microsoft are only proving just how shit they are. Like the roman empire. So huge they can't even look after themselves anymore. Don't get me wrong, leopard isn't perfect; take stacks...
@midimasta
Your argument would hold water if MS didn't give you the choice of the 32 and 64 bit versions for free. Ultimate comes with both discs and you can get MS to mail you one if you have another version.
@Dani
Oh right. You can prove that statement about stability then?
Didn't think so.
This build is nowhere near production quality. By the time we're talking about Snow Leopard's release, this will be a lot smoother.
@Mark Anderson:
Vista Basic (full edition) = $199.99 + 64 bit ~ $15.00S&H = $214.99 + tax. Ultimate? ~$300
Mac OS X Leopard Home Basic, 32-bit: $129.99 + tax
Mac OS X Leopard Home Basic, 64-bit: $129.99 + tax
Mac OS X Leopard Home Premium, 32-bit: $129.99 + tax
Mac OS X Leopard Home Premium, 64-bit: $129.99 + tax
Mac OS X Leopard Business, 32-bit: $129.99 + tax
Mac OS X Leopard Business, 64-bit: $129.99 + tax
Mac OS X Leopard Ultimate, 32-bit: $129.99 + tax
Mac OS X Leopard Ultimate, 64-bit: $129.99 + tax
The best part? You can buy all 8 versions on the exact same disc for... $129.99!
I'm just going to assume that the Ultimate version of Snow Leopard will be $129.99 + tax for 64-bit, while Windows 7 Ultimate will be around $400 at release and they'll probably still charge a shipping fee and make you wait 10 days for the 64-bit version.
Might help if you try reading the words in the image.
It says System Preferences needs to restart, not OS X. System Preferences is an application, akin to the Windows Control Panel, and that image is stating that the APPLICATION needs to restart, not the OS.
You best go lie down before you hurt yourself with all this difficult reading and comprehension and tough stuff like that.
What a fool you are! It clearly says the application needs to restart! A whole two seconds lost to the Beta!
As a Mac owner I can tell you we practically *never* boot our machines. As opposed to my Windows machines!
Not starting a flamewar here, seriously. I love my PCs and Macs but at least Mac OS X does not require you to restart when installing or updating.
i have a windows vista home premium for a year and a half now and i never had to restart it except when i installed SP1.
my apple laptop crashes almost weekly.
just so everyone gets this clear. Microsoft charges the same for 32 bit as it does for 64 bit windows. And i think shitty software is really just an opinion, so while some of you may think windows is garbage, rest assured most of it's users think the same about your OS.
if the arguement is about microsoft offering 64-bit and 32-bit at the same time, its for compatibility. if rumors are true, apple would be dropping support for the 32-bit powerpc processors and 32-bit intel processors, and would move on to 64-bit operating systems. Total waste of money if you ask me. microsoft releases 2 versions side-by-side so people dont have to throw out their 32-bit machine or processor.
Nice troll. Quite a few suckers replied.
@pundit
Two points for you:
1) If you buy a Windows system it'll almost certainly come with Windows Home Premium.
2) If you build your own system the cost is $99 for Home Premium and $179.99 for Ultimate.
Since Home Premium is the equivalent of OS X Leopard it's cheaper. Of course, you could just upgrade from XP to Home Premium which would cost you $122.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=40000368&SrchInDesc=Vista&Tpk=vista
Any other arguments you want destroyed?
@ Clever Endeavor
With regards to only rebooting your Vista box once in a year and a half, you either don't use it, or you're lying and full of BS.
@ Mark Anderson
In order for your comparison to be valid, you need to compare similar objects to one another.
Why don't you compare the price of RETAIL versions of Vista to that of OS X instead of using the discounted Systems Builders price?
Until you can provide a valid retort, your "argument destroying" status has been revoked.
For what it's worth, 64-bit versions of Windows do EXACTLY the same thing. Only they don't tell you why the control panel applet you're looking for isn't there.
You how much of a Windoze Moron you are by not being able to think for yourself. Restart refers to restarting the application and not the machine. Windows is such a steamy pile that even when 7 comes out there will be a 32 bit version. You can heap all the flowers and perfume you want on windows and it still remains a turd.
A turd by any other name is Windows.
Apple is not "shit" just because a "Leaked Snow Leopard image potentially indicates a 32 / 64-bit divide."
Also, to switch between the modes, it just opens a new pane for System Preferences. Please comment on only what you know.
The new version of SL that was leaked (Key word is leaked here) is not for general use. There for you cant compare it to a stable version of Vista.
Snow Leo' will change the way you use your Intel based mac, and it will be slimmer, and much more stable with noticable performance gains for power users and gamers alike. Until it actually comes out, hints are hints, potential points are still just hypothetical, and fanboys still whine about there not being a new cool backround, or the lack of changing the boot backround images.
Get over it, seriously.
well, yes I can prove it actually, quite simply. Do you know what a BSOD is? I'm guessing every windows user in the entire world does. Now the next question is, how many mac users know what a kernal panic is? Again, forgive me for the guesstimate, but i'll even wager my cat that not very many mac users know what that is. Why? Because they don't happen very often!!! And also, for stability, windows Vista when it was first released deleted people's fucking optical drivers. Less stable. When SP1 was released, it broke a number of people's computers. Less stable. Microsoft have to build their OS for several hardware vendors, inevitably making it less stable. And how many versions of Vista are there? that's bound to cause problems. Plus the fact it's been written from NT, which was not perfect, and has just been tacked onto since its inception (whereas OS X was built FROM SCRATCH, in unix, which is inherently secure), has this awful thing called command shell, which is poor in comparison to DOS, and compatibility mode is a fucking laugh compared to rosetta. Not to mention the fact that OS X will run *fairly* smoothly on a machine with a 1ghz processor and 512 MB RAM, whereas Vista, from my own personal experience, runs like a dog unless you have 2GB or more RAM and a Dual Core processor. Apple may be overpriced Hardware nazis, but they are Ironing their shit out with their OS. It is stable, and solid, which is why people actually buy it. That is my argument. Yours is "Apple are proving how shit they for having to restart an application which takes less than a dock bounce to load"
Any more arguments you'd like destroyed?
It would be more fair to compare the cost of OS X to the cost of a Vista upgrade.
When you buy a copy of OS X from the store, it is under the assumption that you are upgrading a system that already came with an Apple OS (since Apple doesn't really factor hackintosh into things).
By the same token you could use a Vista upgrade disc to install a fresh copy of the operating system if you really wanted to.
you can run 32bit apps on 64bit windows...
Windows does seem to love reboot. For example, the SMB/FIle Sharing patch that came out a while ago required a restart of the whole machine. Ridiculous, why not just restart the "Server" service? Ubuntu can update everything except the kernel without requiring a restart.
(BTW, how do Linux distros do that? Do the open processes have a hard link to open files and the updater just deletes the directory entry and copies a new file?)
@ProfessorDex
I did which is why I quoted the upgrade price for Vista Home Premium. It's the one which is $10 cheaper than Leopard.
@Dani
Your long and pointless rant is irrelevant since those issues have been resolved. Incidentally, how are you enjoying that sixth service pack on the wonderfully stable Leopard?
Are we done here or do you want to spout more bollocks about things you clearly don't understand? I'm not saying Windows is perfect because it isn't, I just grow tired of the utterly stupid nonsense spouted by people like you who get their technical information from fansites.
@Andrew - Have you ever used OS X? It most certainly prompts you to reboot for updates just as much as Windows does.
@Dani - Your comment is laughable at best. Posting anecdotal evidence and regurgitated fanboy crap just makes you sound ignorant.
BSOD's haven't been a problem since Windows XP and Vista, unless there is a hardware or device driver problem.
OS X has *plenty* of its own issues. To think otherwise is just ignorance of the platform. How about the fact that if OS X is unable to mount a share in the login items for a user, it's impossible to shut down the OS without using a hard shut down?
"When SP1 was released, it broke a number of people's computers. Less stable." Are you new around here? Have you no idea the problems Leopard caused when it was released? How about people's files being lost when moved over a network...
OS X was written from scratch??? Wow...you really have NO idea about the OS. Maybe you should start here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OS_X
The command shell in Vista is inferior to DOS? .... wow.
What "compatibility mode" in Vista are you comparing to Rosetta? If you are referring to being able to alter a shortcut to have the application run as though it were under a previous version of Windows, well, you are definitely comparing apples and oranges.
All in all, I'd suggest you just completely stop posting comments, at least on technical sites, until you bolster your technical knowledge. And yes, I run both OS X and Vista and develop actively and professionally for both.
man, i just got my macbook last summer. i hope it's wrong but oh well, ill just stop updating when it comes down to it.
@tbone your MacBook (almost certainly) has an Intel Core 2 Duo chip which is 64 bit.
Correct. I bought a 64-bit MacBook two years ago (Intel Core 2 Duo). Only the very first MacBooks and MacBook Pros, released in early 2006, were not 64-bit (they used the Intel Core Duo processor).
yeah i see something similar to their notebook video cards, you can run both in sli because it would melt the laptop faster than it normally overheats, and since people seem to accept this i wouldnt be surprised AT ALL if you had to keep switching between 32 and 64, and users will rejoice .... for whatever reason.
although i am looking forward to snow leopard just for the video card acceleration, anything that lets me render HD footage faster is good in my book. (however my pc with premiere does it just fine)
This preview is from June 2008, so it's quite an early one. A lot will still change until its release.
Note it is NOT restarting the whole system - it is simply restarting the small System Preferences application! No biggie, especially since by the time of release I assume all Apple's preference items will run in 64 bit.
This screenshot is a fake. There is no more .Mac icon and a lot of icons are in English too. Sorry, Engadget.
It's called "Sharing" in the german version too. And Time Machine isnt called Zeitmaschine either. And no QuickTime is not Schnell Zeit. Sorry to you my friend.
What dos the icon marked "OSX {shaisse}" mean?
I cant find the icon, but "shaisse" is some kind of german leetspeak and means shit (scheisse).
Applications usually switch to another translation (english, in this case) if the string hasn't been translated into the chosen language. And many expressions in the german version are derived from the english ones because a term like "Schnell Zeit" (rofl) just sounds stupid in german and no one would ever call something he wants to make money with like that.
No idea what build this was, but the WWDC build does the samething. Screen might be a build older than that, but the issue still stands as of the WWDC build.
I opened up my System Preferences to compare...some of the icons are in different spots (no big deal) but I did notice it still has .mac instead of MobileMe...so either this is an old shot or a fake.
And question...I have a MacBook Pro (not the new uni-body one) with a 2.6GHz processor...is that a 64 bit chip or no? Also, I never really understood the whole 64 bit VS. 32 bit thing...can someone explain the importance in this to me? Thanks.
If your MacBook came with leopard and an Intel Core 2 Duo then its 64-bit.
Your mac is 64-Bit. Only the first Core Duo NOT Core 2 Duo and the older PowerBooks/iBooks are not 64-Bit. And the Core Duo was never installed with 2.6 GHz
On the PC, the problem was that a 64-Bit OS has longer adresses, this is needed to adress more space. 32-Bit can adress up to 2^32 (that's about 4 billion) and that's about 4 GB. If your computer has more than 4 GB a 32 BIt-OS can't adress all of the upper memory. Practicaly it stops at about 3.5 GB because you need virtual adresses for graphics and stuff. 4 GB of memory can't be fully adressed with a 32 BIt-OS. That's the problem.
To work a 64-Bit OS requires 64-Bit-Drivers, 64-Bit-Applications and so on. On the mac, already in Tiger you could run 32-Bit-Apps side-by side with 64-Bit-Apps. A universal binary can include ppc, ppc64, x86 and x86-64 code and so the app would run on all more or less current macs. At those with 64-Bit-CPU it could use all of the memory.
On the PC, the problem are the drivers. If you have an old scanner or printer whose drivers were written for Windows 98 or 2000, you're out of luck, no manufacturer would take that out of archive to update the driver! So everyone uses 32-Bit Windows so everything works. My experience with Windows XP x64 were bad, the printer subsystem makes you screw your head and everything works a bit sluggy. But with Vista I don't know, but should be fine.
It amazed me that Apple introduced an improvement in R&D caused a ripple effect, while people disregarded 64-bit PC already on the market for quite sometimes. Apple's new OS could switch from 32 to 64-bit and vice versa because it controls the hardware in Mac brand personal computers.
I'd like to confirm this is GENUINE and it is OLD.
The seeds notes for Snow Leopard mention this a lot (and other 64 bit issues).
The German issues are red herrings.
Snow Leopard will require users to restart their System Preferences to access 32 bit panes.
Personally, I'd try and come up with a more elegant solution than that.
I see goatsee in that icon and i can't unsee it!
This is a true post. You just have to restart system preferences to access the bits they have not put into 64 bit code yet.
German issues are full of flack because they use old language files that have not been re-coded. Mind you that means most of the buttons will fail due to them not having a correct address for the 64 bit changes.
The buggy nature is that of a Dev Release which this is, it was no way labeled stable or Ready For Market (RFM) at all, this was just a leak for the Devs to test out some minor tweaks and footprint items. As well as to come up and test new versions of their programs for the 64 bit code since GPU Processing was not included.
Please guys, stop flaming if you don't know what is going on.
My personal view on this, is that Snow Leopards Dev release was a good one, it has its bugs but is very stable for what it is. If anyone gets a chance to test it, make sure to test out the difference it takes to use/run the 64 bit flavors of apps vs the 32 bit non multicore built apps. The difference is Phenominal!
"Apple's said it's taking a break from adding flashy features to OS X to focus on the foundations and stability of the system with Snow Leopard,"
see this is whay gets me about the zealots who can't think for themselves. If this was Ms and they stated the above they would be pointing fingers screeching like baboons that OMG! See proof that MS code is for shit so they need to go and revamp and clean up the underlying code, the truth is this is what is happening in Win 7 but lets stay on topic. But Apple does this and they get the 'o pat on the back for taking the time to do this right. Its double standard bullshit is what it is.
If I saw more Mac users call Apple out on this behavior, because God knows every 10.x release that I've used has been buggy as hell out of the gate...usually stabilizing around 10.x.3 or so maybe, just maybe I would be less pissy about Apple in general.
Its the damn double standard though that grinds my gears into a fine powder. After 3 years of using Apple I've come to the firm conclusion that Apple's code is just as shit as MS on release. The difference is that the mactards are a whole hell of a lot more forgiving to the anointed one: Steve "I walk on iWater" Jobs then Windows users are towards MS.
Here's a though. Call out Apple for rushing out buggy code. Tell them to shove it up their iAss, and if enough people actually rebelled because of a crappy release, maybe Apple would realize that they don't have a captive user base who would lick Steve's bunghole to get the latest whatever they are offering. As it stands Steve and Apple know that you will lick up whatever they put out on the stoop because you are so blinded by the idea that MS is so inferior to Apple that you will do anything they tell you to do. Think different? right. Try Think Conformist.
The difference that I see is that MS is having a more reactive response to Vista and its reception, and Apple has the benefit of a more pro-active response. It cannot be denied that Vista has had a relatively poor reception. And although both OS's did not have a smooth launch, I think you'd be hard pressed to find nearly as much legitimate criticism or negative news of Leopard today as compared to Vista. I believe this has forced MS's hand to push Windows 7 for a quick launch.
Apple, however, is sitting happily on top of Leopard. They don't have a huge line of customers holding back with Tiger saying they'll never upgrade to Leopard. They've released yet another successful OS. Users are happy with it. This laptop that I am writing on now is the third computer in my "Migration" ancestry, and it still runs beautifully. This ancestry has gone through 3 major OS releases, which started with Panther on a 17" PowerBook, then Tiger on the first Intel iMac, and now a year old MacBook. Apple's OS is solid and has a lot of great functionality. They aren't changing lanes for SL because they need to, it's because they figure they've got some time to work on it while Microsoft tries to catch up.
APPLE is a HARDWARE and SOFTWARE company.
MICROSOFT is a SOFTWARE company
also about the 129.99 for each version, Of course you only
paid a little for the disc, you already paid $1000+ for the actual
computer. Microsoft only makes the money for windows, not
your HP or Dell box.
doh. be it 32 bit or 64 bit, none of em can run crysis natively. so what's the point in discussing about it? oh and for those who don't already know, Windows have had 64 bit versions since XP era.
you realize this isn't the first Mac OS to use 64bit technology, correct?
Why would snow leopard have to restart in 32-bit mode to access the network panel?
And whats about 64Bit Apps like FCP?
64Bit OS and 32Bit Software, thats all crazy because the Apps can handle only 3Gb of Ram.
@ winnimac
The program will use as much memory as the OS can allocate to it. Good example is 32 bit FCP allocating 14 GB of memory when it renders a movie file on a MacPRO. Or when 32 bit Logic has more than 64 tracks and allocates all 32 GB of memory when you are rendering a 3 GB Sample in memory.
The same comment arrises when we see that a MacPRO can have 32GB of memory currently on a 32 bit native OS. It is the way the OS is coded to handle memory, not the way the program is coded when it comes to XCode, thats the beauty of it.
Wow, isnt it cool how these things end up getting "leaked" like that!
Jess
A lot of interesting comments here. I use two laptops side-by-side every day, an Asus with a Core 2 Duo and 2 MB RAM and a MacBook Pro with a Core 2 Duo and 4 MB RAM. Vista runs pretty good on the Asus because the machine has the power in terms of processor and memory to run it without crashing all the time. Of course, Leopard runs like a dream on the MBP. I've used both Windows and Mac OS for a long time, and in my opinion there is no comparison. My Mac is more intuitive and fun to use, and it's more stable.
An office where I work has an IT guy that comes in every two weeks to check out the network and take care of any problems. Windows is all he's ever worked on. Lately he's started playing with my MBP when he comes in. He's amazed at what he can do on it that he can't do on Windows. He tells me he's seriously considering getting a Mac for his own use because he's tired of dealing with Vista problems. I never thought I would hear a confirmed Windows IT guy say something like that.
All of the Windows advocates should remember that most Mac users have experience with Windows at work or other places where they have no choice but to use it, and they've made a conscious choice based on experience to buy and use Macs. On the other hand most Windows users have little or no experience with Macs (yes I know there are exceptions), yet despite their lack of knowledge, they are certain that Windows is best. To them I say, give Mac a try.
As soon as I saw the title I knew this would happen, get over it!
Is this screen shot for real? I still see .Mac as an option which was replaced with MobileMe some months back.