Oregon governor looking at GPS-based mileage tax to fund roads
By Donald Melanson 
posted December 31st 2008 4:03PM
posted December 31st 2008 4:03PM
Electric cars and other fuel-efficient vehicles certainly have plenty going for them, but all that reduction in fuel consumption also has the side effect of reducing the money earned from gas taxes, which has prompted folks like Oregon governor Ted Kulongoski to turn to some alternative solutions to keep those funds rolling in. In the case of Oregon, Governor Kulongoski is proposing a mileage tax that would eventually replace the gas tax altogether, and make use of GPS units to determine just how far each person travels and bill them accordingly (Oregon is proposing a 1.2 cent per mile tax). To assuage privacy concerns, that information would apparently only be collected when the driver fuels up, and actual travel information supposedly wouldn't be tracked. Obviously, that system would only work if everyone had a GPS, so the governor is proposing an increase in the standard gas tax in the interim, with drivers already equipped with a GPS unit eligible for a refund on the taxes paid. All of this also still has to pass the Oregon legislature to become law, but it certainly wouldn't be the first time that the state broke with convention.
This sounds like it would PUNISH people with Fuel Efficient cars.
Drivers with fuel efficient cars would pay MORE if they're paying by the mile and not by the gallon.
Doesn't the gas tax already charge people by how much they drive?
This method would also let out of state drivers and people with out-of-state tags get out of paying any tax.
As always, the idea of less government spending is replaced with ridiculous tax increases. Folks, taxation by government is getting out of control and the more we sit by and do nothing the more they will continue to find new and ridiculous ways of taxing us. When oil was $147 a barrel, the politicians cried foul and talked about how the little guy needs relief. Now that relief is here, the politicians cry about how they aren't generating enough revenue from gas taxes. Folks, it's time to put these people out on their ass! I am sick and tired of the government acting on their own interests instead of acting on the will of people. GPS to track people's mileage? Give me a damn break. They are trying to force us in to mass transit and drive ugly ass electric cars that we don't want to drive anyway. But, as always, we're all too stupid to decide what is best for ourselves so they will decide for us.
Enough is enough.
=== I didn't mean for this to turn into a huge rant, but oh well!
Taxes are not the problem. In fact, the United States has one of the lowest tax rates among the top 25 economies in the world. The problem is spending! We need to reorganize and re-prioritize the national budget and the entire philosophy of this country. We need to put a stop to the waste, fraud, and abuse of tax payers money while focusing on improving K-12 education, healthcare, and our energy infrastructure.
- Most importantly, we need to reform and modernize the *entire* system of federal and state government budgeting and contracting to take advantage of information technology. And I mean *every single dollar* of tax revenue that is spent gets reported in real-time on a publicly available website. The entire system of outsourcing work to contractors will be FULLY TRANSPARENT, with any relationships and ties to government agencies, employees, politicians, etc all available in full view in an easy to use system. This would not only apply to state and federal agency's contracts, but their entire annual expenditure, including ownership and operating costs for all facilities and equipment in addition to employee salaries.
- Similarly, we need to immediately pass a constitutional amendment or some sort of federal legislation that blocks members of congress from earmarking appropriations in spending bills to specific projects (and thus bypassing federal agencies and their expert panels that usually decide how budgets are spent).
- We need to reduce military spending from a ridiculous $500 billion a year (without including the war on terror or Iraq) to say $350 or $400 billion. We don't tens of thousands of troops in South korea, or Japan, and a hundred other bases. We should be able to close 25% or more of the bases and rearrange those troops. We should focus on science and technology research, personnel training, and eventually using the peacetime military for humanitarian purposes and international cooperation.
- The entire healthcare system needs to be reformed. It is incredibly innefficient, non-cost-effective, and wasteful. Medicare, Medicaid, health insurance, etc. It all has to go and will be replaced by an effective, privately managed universal system of healthcare. To set this up properly, We should from a dream team of healthcare experts, economists, hospital COO and CEOs, international policy experts, academics, heads of medical non-profits, etc to craft a 21st century solution that utilizes advanced technology to boost efficiency and productivity.
- the whole system of social security, welfare, disability, pensions, and other so-called entitlement programs need to be re-organized under one roof. We need to reduce fraud and abuse of the system while simultaneously improving access to services for people who really need it. The next 10 years of retirees and seniors are facing a serious crisis, with their evaporating pensions and 401Ks putting a burden on social security which is already stretched. We need to take care of these people to ensure a minimum quality of life while reforming the system for future generations, and requiring much more personal investment in their own retirements.
Similarly, The current system for the disabled, unemployed, and the poor is completely broken. I have witnessed first hand hard- working low income and middle class families struggling to get by, living in cars after devastating layoffs, etc --- while watching lazy miscreants abuse the SSI and housing subsidization programs. I think information technology can dramatically help us here. Being able to track individuals and families throughout the system and their progress, we can minimize the opportunity for fraud and abuse, and get aide to those who really need it.
Most of the problems with welfare, SSI, HUD/section8/low-cost housing and other types of social programs is the massive bureaucracy involved. It is currently disorganized with different agencies doing different programs and no one knows what the other is doing. At the same time, the tracking and organizing of information on individuals and benefits is a mess, and this lack of transparency and confusion is what allows individuals to abuse the system and creates so much inefficiency that families that truly need assistance get shut out and frustrated. If we can get this whole system of social assistance reformed, we can save untold amounts of money and provide much better services to the hungry and homeless. NO ONE should have to go without food or proper shelter, especially the mentally ill and innocent children.
At the same time, we should NOT be giving long-term hand outs (talking about the non-disabled or mentally ill here). We need a focus on job training, WORKfare, and providing "assistance" NOT "subsistence". Free-loaders will not be welcome. Welfare requirements would be much stricter, the total duration of lifetime welfare would be limited to 6 months (currently 5 years). To receive assistance, people would be required to find employment and would receive help in finding employment. We could expand tax benefits for companies that hire the poor and unemployed and basically work towards getting everyone "on their feet" by helping them help themselves.
- Energy is a whole other topic... Gasoline "floor tax", Massive investments in renewable energy, C02 emissions charges, etc...
Not surprising at all.... Dream up some idiotic, impractical and unfeasible plan instead of just increasing the gasoline tax by 5 cents a gallon!
Will it recognize if I go for a track day at a privately owned race track, and not charge me for those miles?
"The Matrix is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it when you look out your window or when you turn on your television. You can feel it when you go to work... when you go to church... when you pay your taxes. It is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth. "
So basically this is a 'How much of your money we can spend better than you' device.
so the reason is to tax hybrids and electric cars is because by working to save the Earth... they are burning less gasoline, which is, by virtue of the gas tax, the 'use fee' for the highways, so then the Gov states that people would not be taxed until the time they 'fill up'...
Genius
Only in Oregon would we rely on 28 orbiting satellites, along with a some super duper hardware that has to be installed on EVERY vehicle and kept in continuous contact with Oregon State computer systems to tally your tax that you drove this year/month/week/day/hour.
Hell - Oregon went tens of MILLIONS of dollars over on their DMV database, they can't get their Department of Fish and Wildlife system to stay active during hunting/fishing seasons... Why not add a new system that will track virtually everyone in the state. They've done so well with the smaller stuff.
- Nice move Ted... You freekin moron.
Wow, those Oregonians are nuts to come up with something like this. They're like Californians, but on crack.
He should shut the fuck up already before states THAT ALREDY COLLECT SALES TAX adopt that nonsense on top. Here in Chicago we pay over 10% on most items in sales tax. Oregon big fat ZERO.
So you want revenue Mr. Kulongoski? Tax your sales!
our founding fathers are gonna cry if they know what our government is trying to do today...
is this still America? where is freedom, liberty and limited government? we are off the right track.
This could be a good idea if it was implemented on electric vehicles only. No gas tax means they aren't paying to use the roadway therefore you need some way to collect on roadway usage.
Local checkpoints, perhaps? What if you drive your electric car on your own backyard all the time?
You presume they have the RIGHT to charge me a road tax to begin with.
There are only supposed to be TWO taxes in this country.
Sales Tax / "Excise" tax and Taxes on PROFIT.
everything else is FUNDAMENTALLY illegal and immoral and unconstitutional.
Wage Taxes (improperly called income tax) Property Tax, Yearly registration, Gas taxes beyond normal sales tax, school taxes ALL ILLEGAL ALL IMMORAL ALL UNCONSTITUTIONAL all just plain WRONG.!!!
The way it currently works is we spend more so we tax more.
THAT IS NOT HOW ITS SUPPOSED TO WORK FOLKS !!!
It supposed to be WE HAVE THIS MUCH IN TAXES so we can ONLY SPEND THAT MUCH.
THE WHOLE REASON the tax system was MADE SO RESTRICTIVE was to RESTRICT THE GROWTH OF GOVERNMENT.
that was the ENTIRE GOD DAMNED POINT FOLKS !!
They have NO RIGHT to a road tax. Use the EXISTING revenue to do the road. if there is not enough YOU CUT THE DAMNED FAT NOT INCREASE THE TAX!!!
BATF ILLEGAL
DEA ILLEGAL
Department of Education ILLEGAL
90% of everything that comes out of congress ILLEGAL
Income Tax (wage tax) ILLEGAL
Property Tax ILLEGAL
MOST city organizations ILLEGAL
DMV NOT NEEDED for 99% of what it does
The constitution is EXPLICIT not IMPLICIT
if its not LISTED in the constitution its NOT FRELLING LEGAL FOR THE FEDS TO DO IT !!!
MOST of the state and federal organizations we have today could be CHOPPED all together or reduced to 10% of its current size and that would be sufficient to perform its LAWFUL function.
you say what about all the jobs? well you just cut the tax revenue by 90% so now suddenly business could EXPAND and there would BE more jobs.
these artificial jobs ONLY HURT the system they do not HELP unless you are at the TOP of the system skimming then it helps.
DO YOU KNOW how income taxes were SUPPOSED to work?
Congress would get together and say ok folks here is what we need for a budget this year lets work it out.
They would they take this KNOW finite budget figure and the people would be TAXED evenly across the board.
I pay out EASILY over 50% of my income to taxes when you add ALL of them together.
Suddenly a person who could have lived "fairly" off 20 grand a year now needs to earn FORTY GRAND a year because of TAXES.
but we NEED this or we NEED that.
NO we don't. THATS the freaking problem. WE DON'T need that crap.
Its interesting that TAXATION changes from being a FINITE fixed thing to being a PERCENTAGE
and its interesting that this INFLATIONARY economy started at about the SAME damned time.
you see in an INFLATIONARY environment there is ONE "earner" that is completely 100% unaffected by the changing value of currency.
thats that earn based on a PERCENTAGE.
you might think OK I earn $100 pay $30 in tax. SO if I suddenly earn $200 I still pay $30 in tax. NO you now pay $60 in tax because its a PERCENTAGE.
so as inflation goes up YOU lose money but anyone who earns on percentage always gets the EXACT same amount or MORE of there money.
who are the two primary "takers" based on interest? BANKS AND GOVERNMENT.
what a coincidence.
Yeah right.
WAKE UP PEOPLE !!!
I'm still waiting for a day when people actually realize that we don't need taxes at all! That taxes are just a huge scam and a theft on the people and that they should finally get fed up with the stealing and do something about it, together. The taxes are outrageous right now and it's going to go higher.
Besides, you US dudes, are all super fine right now with your 5% VATs, very low gas prices and everything, even friggin european products, are much cheaper over in the US. Ironic, isn't it?
"So you want revenue Mr. Kulongoski? Tax your sales!"
Not a chance in hell. Also, this idea blows a .08.
Anyone who thinks this is a good idea needs a bullet in the head.
Just what we need is more gov control and taxes. All the selfish libs think they'll get a freebie by voting in liberal politicians. What's worse is when the promises don't come true their too dumb to realize it and actually vote for the same guy again.
Anyone who calls homosexuals normal and then says moral people are sick in the head for saying homosexuals are perverted should not be allowed to vote. Is it normal to be homosexual you ask. That's like asking if it's normal to stick your foot in a meat grinder.
OK I know I'm ranting and I'll get voted down for being logical, but Oregon would become communist if they could get away with it and it's majority voters would probably think they were getting a stimulus package.
I know most liberals are just deceived sheep who are too clueless to know better, but you socialist pro-homosexual, pro-abortion (the murder of babies) pro-tax increase, pro-freeloader, pro government control liberals can start flaming now but at least I have the knowledge that time will show who the selfish freeloaders are.
You know that was a good post until you added homosexuality into the mix.
Your logic is so flawed its disgusting.
I find homosexuality to be disgusting and repulsive. I am a very open person but something about the idea of two men or two women getting sexual just really irks me on a primal level.
but I have NO PROBLEM with homosexuality. WHO THE HELL ARE YOU to dictate how OTHER PEOPLE can live JUST because YOU find it distasteful.
WHO THE HELL made you GOD to be able to make that decision.
Homosexuality can not HURT you can not CHANGE YOU can not make YOU homosexual can not HARM YOU OR ANYONE ELSE IN ANY MANNER WHAT SO EVER OR EVEN IMAGINABLE
so what the HELL do you think YOU have the right to dictate the personal actions of other citizens.
There is absolutely positively ZERO difference between YOU doing what YOUR doing against homosexuality and another person do EXACTLY the same thing against PLAID SHIRTS because they find plaid to be disgusting and immoral.
There is NO difference.
people like you make me SICK. you take your PERSONAL PRIVATE wants desires biases and "ideas" of right and wrong and try to SHOVE them down the throats of the people around you against there will.
People like YOU are why this world is so F'd up!!
You make me sick.
JUST an FYI.
PEOPLE LIKE YOU AND WHAT YOU TRY TO DO is PRECISELY how and WHY this country was formed.
to GET AWAY from people like YOU !
Commie. Big brother. Fucktard. Die.
All the Governor has to do is threaten to implement a sales tax to cover the loss of revenue from gas tax. I think Oregon voters would let the state implant GPS trackers in their skulls before accepting a sales tax.
This should be a GAS TAX, and NOT a MILEAGE TAX. Basically, all the people that spent the extra money to get a hybrid to save themselves money and to help the environment get screwed in this deal, is that fair? NO.
so if I take a trip around the country I have to pay all that tax and I did not drive in my state
This will never work. GPS would have to be standard equipment on all vehicles, and the state would have to break privacy concerns. The amount of possible fraud makes this unrealistic. They are better off raising the gas tax to compensate for all the hippies and their hybrids.
This is a great way for Big Brother govt. to track the movement of vehicles and send traffic tickets automatically.
For example, the government says it should take X amount of time to go from Point A to Point B. If you got there faster than what the Govt. says it should take, that means you were speeding. The traffic ticket is in the mail!
Suspected of a crime or your wife is wanting to know where you were the last 2 months prior to filing the divorce papers? A court order can open up your travel records for all to see....
Your boss wants to track your use of the company car and where you are...no problem with the new GPS system in every vehicle.
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And the taxes collected on gasoline and diesel are used to maintain public roads only. Not private roads. Every day my parents drive a mile on a private road (a road maintained by the owners, not the govt.) to get to a public road.
Shouldn't all gas tax money be refunded to people that drive on private roads?
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Every vehicle would need a GPS tracking system. Every vehicle old and new. The cost to vehicle owners?
Motorcyles, mopeds and quad-type vehicles, too? With GPS systems on them...
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Tip to the govt. just raise the registration fee on vehicles.
Except REGISTRATION renewal is ALSO another illegal tax.
Tell me. I register my car (which does make some sense)
why exactly do I have to REREGISTER it every year? Did I suddenly become a different person or something?
its just another tax and one they have NO right to.
SAFETY inspection makes sense. Emissions do not.
AUTO MAKERS should be paying for the DMV not the citizens. it serves LITTLE useful purpose to citizens except to be one more tax.
hell you are not even allowed to OWN a car. you are PART owner CO owner.
Show me a title to your car? owe wait did you pull out that CERTIFICATE of Title?
who is the "actual" owner? why the state of course. This is why the state can conduct "grand theft auto" when you owe a immoral parking ticket and TAKE your car and SELL IT.
Cute ehh. without "title and registration" being mandatory through the "state" they could not legally do this.
sure you CAN actually own a car. you can buy one out of state get the MSO and tow it home.
but its now ILLEGAL for you to drive that car off your property and SOMETIMES even illegal for you to posess it unless its INSIDE a garage.
you see you don't own your home either. its even WORSE than cars where you at least have PARTIAL ownership. except in Texas its IMPOSSIBLE for an american to OWN his or her own home.
Don;t believe me? stop paying your RENT (otherwise called property taxes) and see just how long you OWN that home.
you have Fee Simple Title at best for your property. the very definition of fee simple title is that the CROWN (state) owns the property and you are nothing more than the legal TENANT of that property.
Off course the real estate people will not tell you this and most do not even KNOW this unless they actually LOOK it up for themselves.
You see you can not be double taxed. Once you buy that Hamburger and pay your tax they can not come back next week or next year and tax it again (at least not yet)
so why do you have to pay property tax over and over again and why is your tax based on ANY value except that which you paid for it? well because its NOT a tax. its just called a tax. its RENT. your living on THERE property and THEY have decided this is how we will calculate the RENT.
My pop pays over $100 a WEEK in taxes for our relatively small 2 story on less than .3 acre lot in levittown pa. $6700 a year JUST in taxes. In what universe is that "OK" besides our screwed up twisted universe.
Your simply deluded if you think you "own" your home. You do not.
Gov has shown they can and WILL abuse new technologies and methods.
We get cell phones they can not listen to them whenever they want
We add e911 so we can find people calling for help. They add the ability to track us without a warrant using it and you can not turn it off.
They add black boxes to cars for computer data logging. THEY add the right to TAKE those boxes and use the data against us
they can and will ABUSE any and all new technologies against us.
what starts as gas tax tracking WILL end up as unlimited track you any time for any reason tracking.
not might. not could. IT WILL. there (gov people in power etc.) track record on this is 100%
There is a reason that Ted Kulongoski (my governor) has been given a "sounds-like" nickname of Ted 'Tax-and-Gouge-Me'.
...not to mention 'Sleepy Ted'...
This guy is a twit. He's not grounded in reality.
Hmmmm letting the govermnent peek at my GPS to see where I've been driving, no thanks. And the people who are going to get tottaly screwed by this are people who make their living driving.
This guy also wants to enact California-like licensing fees which would basically triple the cost of getting a license and registering your car, basically screwing the poor, while rich folk can still drive their SUV's around undeterred.
I think they should charge by the pound (for non-commercial vehicles) with a sliding scale as you get heavier.
I think thats a silly idea. I think they should calculate the precise cost to fix the road this year and TAKE that exact amount out of the sales taxes. if no sales tax ENACT one as thats the only LEGAL tax revenue they should have.
Don;t create a department for it. thats wasted money. it takes one existing person and a computer program. multi task.
Well now this is a fine way to to accelerate the transition to alternative energy sources.....Start taxing the consumer immediately!! This idea might be fine when there is no more revenue from gasoline but where is the incentive to a rapid transition to alternatives?---Not to mention instilling fear of privacy issues that aren't currently resolved..... Of course there will need to be a method of financing transport infrastructure but let's see if we can be a bit more creative..
I think it's a good idea. Then again, I also think that auto insurance should be payed thru gas taxes as well. The more you drive, the higher your insurance costs. Remove the private insurers, and viola!....lower insurance costs.
GPS will never work.
Reception will be a problem.
Cloudy days will be "off taxes"? ok, most units will be able to pin point once in a while, but the GPS will think you traveled in a straight line between measures.
and several other caveats of GPS tech.
in the end of the day i think what will be the most commom sollution for this "worldwide tax revenue decrease" will be to charge on the KWatt.
"electric motors service stations" will charge on the power they sell (so there will be a difference in tax for the Tesla power hungry engines and other mini less consuming engines.
and since plug in cars usuallly will have to charge from a different power outlet (it will take forever to charge on the USB port lol), so even home auto power ports should have this surcharge when charging autos.
but just looking at the other side of the coin.
Geopositioning would be good to allow TAX Free rides on non public streets. (Toll roads, proprietary, et all)
Now going even futher, how they will tax "flying electric cars"? my delorean will pay tax by Air Mileage ? I guess power output is the way to go....
just to put some more flammes on.
one of the major points with Electric cars is that you do not pollute while using it, but the ways used to produce power pollutes just as bad. so you're spending energy that was produced by burning coal? what's the point really? someone might explain more about the efficiency and pollution statistics in general. but electricity is not clean at all in a more broad sense
Does any remember the book "1984"? It's just a step in the door for Big Brother to keep an eye on YOU.
While I didn't read all responses to this article, it's obvious none are familiar with the log books truck drivers have to maintain. Specifically which roads they drive, in which state, so the taxes paid are adjusted to go to the state wherein the miles were accumulated. Just buying fuel in the low tax state does NOT mean it stays there, it goes to the state driven in.
we would already be paying taxes on electric vehicles. You pay the taxes on the electricity that you use at your house right? You paid taxes on that license plate right? I can on and on about what taxes we pay for our cars. right on down to the tires we pay taxes on plus the disposal fee.
It's not just Oregon....
The Federal Government is trying to get it put in place nationally eventually. I am part of a nationwide study that is charting trends in road usage. This is the beginning of switching over to a per mile tax.
You can find out more about it here:
http://www.roaduserstudy.org/faq.aspx
This is one of the many reasons why Oregon will never be a great State.
Before introducing mileage tax, ensure that the gas tax is cut or slashed. Then, the mileage tax should be applied to all cars irrespective of whether the car is fuel efficient or not. This would help in the following ways.
1. People having fuel efficient cars will still have an edge.
2. Govt can still earn revenues to fund roads.
3. Global warming can be reduced considerably.
Also ensure that the mileage tax is only 1 cent per mile or so (and not more).
[I am from India and I happened to read this article somewhere in the newspaper. Despite being a poor country, the gas prices are considerably higher here than in the US (approx $4.1 per gallon). Moreover, the condition of the roads here are also not as good as in the US. So one could imagine our plight.]
I would rip that shit right out of my car.
Why not base the price off of the rated milage for your vehicle. In Oregon you can't pump your own gas, so the attendant could enter your license plate number which would bring up your vehicle (having the attendant enter the milage would keep people from cheating by entering a lower mpg vehicle). If youre vehicle gets 20 mpg and you buy 1 gallon of gas then you pay for 20 miles of tax. This would also charge out of state drivers who drive through Oregon, and keep you from getting taxed when driving out of Oregon.