Palm's app store christened App Catalog, games not a priority
by Chris Ziegler 
posted Jan 10th 2009 at 4:29PM
Outside Palm's inner circle of trusted partners, the webOS SDK (playfully named "Mojo") won't be released to would-be app developers until we get closer to the Pre's launch, but we know a few key details. First off, as "webOS" implies, apps written for the platform are web-based -- HTML, JavaScript, that sort of stuff -- but unlike Apple's original vision for the iPhone, Palm's going to include libraries that allow devs to tap in to the Pre's hardware capabilities and interact closely with services exposed by the operating system. For users, that means apps are hopefully going to be rich and powerful, but graphically intensive, heavily interactive things -- think games, mainly -- aren't likely to happen. That's not to say Palm won't eventually offer a binary SDK, but the tools they appear to be offering up front won't get the job done, and we've confirmed in talking to Palm that Pre gaming was never a priority for the company during the development cycle. In a nutshell: Tetris, yes; Tetrisphere, not so much.
[Via Mobile Roar]
Filed under: Cellphones, Handhelds
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Joe H @ Jan 10th 2009 4:34PM
That's a slight disappointment, because even if its mainly a productivity device, its nice to have games to kill time available once in a while.
That being said, I did find a few links that helped to allay my concerns:
http://blog.nihilogic.dk/2008/04/jav...nstein-3d.html
Wolfenstein 3D clone done entirely in Javascript and AJAX.
Also:
Mario Bros clone: http://blog.nihilogic.dk/2008/05/8-k...-of-mario.html
Super Mario Kart clone: http://blog.nihilogic.dk/2008/05/jav...ario-kart.html
Joe H @ Jan 10th 2009 4:36PM
Sorry, bad links:
http://blog.nihilogic.dk/2008/04/javascript-wolfenstein-3d.html
http://blog.nihilogic.dk/2008/05/8-kilobytes-of-mario.html
http://blog.nihilogic.dk/2008/05/javascript-super-mario-kart.html
Andrew @ Jan 12th 2009 11:23AM
Web applications suck, plain and simple. Yeah its easy to come out with an OS then rely on web apps but Palm is going to need to release a real development platform for their new OS if they want a shot at BlackBerry, Android and Apple.
Developing a mobile OS isnt simple and while WebOS may look pretty it reminds me a lot of all the empty promises we received from Android.
Saad Rabia @ Jan 10th 2009 4:41PM
Other than the fact that WebOS is able to run games, why would you use Pre for gaming? What is it with people asking for battery draining software which they'll use for two days and then uninstall? Why not use a console or your PC/Laptop for gaming and leave it at that level?!
Angus Hedger @ Jan 10th 2009 7:18PM
I have to agree, I want a smooth fluid Phone/PDA experience, I don't care about games, I never played any on any of my WM phones, and I wouldn't on this, maybe if they where free, I would download, try, uninstall.
Anyway, I'm sure they will fix it, it isn't like they forgot something.. basic.. *cough*
Nouman @ Jan 10th 2009 4:52PM
ya. Why take pictures? I mean I got my camera. Why browse facebook, I can do it on my computer.
Music! what a waste of battery, I got my ipod.
hope you know you sound like an idiot
Joe H @ Jan 10th 2009 4:54PM
Its not like anyone would ever use a phone as their primary gaming console. However, haven't you ever been sitting in a waiting room or something and wanted to kill some time for a while?
AJC @ Jan 10th 2009 4:59PM
Saad Rabia sounding like an idiot? ...ya DON'T say...
Saad Rabia @ Jan 10th 2009 5:04PM
Nouman, how about if I tell you that taking pictures and surfing the web waste less battery and and are actually useful? How about if you understand that my point is not to remove all games, but stop nagging about not having a lot of them?
hope you know you think like an idiot.
Paul Chapel @ Jan 10th 2009 5:15PM
I never thought I would see the day when a Windows Fanboy would essentially say, "Who need games? I'll be using my Pre to actually get things done, wink, wink."
He's using the same argument that Apple Fanboys use when Windows users make fun of OS X for not having as many games. Oh, the irony.
Saad Rabia @ Jan 10th 2009 5:20PM
Paul Chapel, only that my PC is connected 24/7 to a power source, and a Pre runs on batteries, so it does matter. Comparing WebOS to Windows or OS X is just stupid.
And talking about fanboys, why don't you go burn yourself?
Albert Francis @ Jan 10th 2009 5:35PM
Who are you trying to convince? Are you saying games are not important on a mobile device? Well, good luck with that...
Saad Rabia @ Jan 10th 2009 5:45PM
Albert Francis, yes, that is what I'm saying. It's okay to have a couple of games on a mobile phone, but it isn't as important as some people make it seem. I would love to use my mobile phone as a gaming platform but I'll wait until they create some long lasting batteries with the powerful processing power. Many of my friends who own an iPhone are already bothered by the short battery life per day, and they rarely run a game; they will run it to show me how cool it looks and that's it, of course some games are amazing, but it is not important to have 200 games for me to buy the Pre!
Mike10010100 @ Jan 10th 2009 5:47PM
Except for the fact that most people would be happy with Solitare and maybe a Bubble Bobble. Plus, there's always 3rd party people who would jump at the chance to make new games.
Keep in mind that this thing was announced out of the blue, so of course people haven't planned ahead of time to make 3rd party games.
Paul Chapel @ Jan 10th 2009 5:48PM
Saad on May 5th, 2008:
"I love my Zune 80, and would love to play some games on it every once in a while"
http://www.engadget.com/2008/05/05/zune-xna-games-preview-release-aimed-for-may/
Saad on Jan 10th, 2009
"...why would you use Pre for gaming?"
Mike10010100 @ Jan 10th 2009 5:52PM
My God, Paul. I'm actually agreeing with Saad. Gaming and playing some games does not mean the same thing. Taken out of context they do, but gaming implies serious video games, and using the Pre (or the iPhone) as a primary gaming device does seem a bit silly. Games on a cell phone are meant to be quick time wasters. For instance, the Solitare and brick breaker on the iPod. THAT'S what Saad was talking about when he said he wanted games on his Zune.
The WHOLE quote is "I love my Zune 80, and would love to play some games on it every once in a while; for better 3D-accelerated gaming experience I use an Xbox 360."
Asshole.
Saad Rabia @ Jan 10th 2009 5:54PM
Paul Chapel, I clearly say for "some, every once in a while" gaming, that is like once a month for me. I didn't say " I would love to use my Zune as a gaming platform". I would be an idiot to say such thing, because I want my Zune's battery for more music and video playing.
Do you still not get my point?
Paul Chapel @ Jan 10th 2009 6:01PM
No matter what excuses you guys try to make, gaming is going to make the iPhone more attractive. I don't know how many times I've come here and heard people say they love Windows for games, yada, yada, yada and how they would switch to OS X if only it supported more games. In fact, I've said the same thing on a number of occasions. In fact, I think I said it to someone just yesterday.
Paul Chapel on Jan 9th, 2009
"I really don't care too much about music on Windows 7 at this point, because I've just been using it primarily for games and my MacBook Pro and OS X for everything else, but by all means post a link for the fix if you have it."
http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/09/windows-7-beta-goes-public/
I'm not saying you guys don't have to like the Pre, it's a nice phone, but don't be f*cking hypocrites. You know games are important. If I remember correctly, in the first few weeks after the App Store opened, games were consistently the top 10 bestsellers. In fact, if you go on iTunes right now, I guarantee you'll see a bunch of games crowding the bestseller list.
Quix @ Jan 10th 2009 6:08PM
"Dude, are you serious?! iPhone gaming platform? Why? Because Apple said so?!" - Saad Rabia
Sounds like *someone* hasn't actually played any games on the iPhone.
Pocket gaming is the next great gaming frontier. Ever hear of a little device called the Nintendo DS? Do you have any idea how many of those things they've sold?
And no, the iPhone doesn't have a D pad or a bunch of buttons. But if you've played games like Fieldrunners, Rolando, Tap Tap Revenge, etc., you realize that there is a lot of gaming potential for the iPhone hardware. Me, I'm praying for an iPhone version of Starcraft, which, if Fieldrunners is any indication, could be smashingly awesome. Get on that, Blizzard. Please.
I've spent more time gaming on my iPhone in the past 6 months than I've spent gaming on my console or on my desktop computer. I don't think I'm alone.
Game Different.
Mike10010100 @ Jan 10th 2009 6:05PM
COMPUTER GAMES are important. Little 3D games that run on the iPhone are not important. They only eat up power. I would rather buy a PSP (I say that because of the 3D graphics) to be a dedicated portable game player. That way, I wouldn't have to sacrifice my usable battery life for my cell phone, and would be able to play games.
THE IPHONE IS NOT A PRIMARY GAME PLAYER. IT IS A CELL PHONE THAT PLAYS 3D GAMES! Plus, some of the racing games really lag.
Saad Rabia @ Jan 10th 2009 6:08PM
Paul Chapel, I hope you enjoy playing your games on the iPhone, and I hope the battery doesn't die on you mid-day, and I hope you are happy to troll in every post in this website, but I still don't care about games on my phone. I would care about copy & past, video recording, bluetooth transferes and multi-tasking more than having 50 games on a smartphone, you know, real smartphone stuff.
Paul Chapel @ Jan 10th 2009 6:10PM
I don't know if you're aware but we are comparing the Pre to the iPhone. The fact that the iPhone has more and better games is going to be a big factor in whether people are going to buy the Pre over the iPhone or whether people are going to leave the iPhone for the Pre. I guarantee if you give a regular non-geek the specs on both, that the lack of games is going to have a big effect on their decisions.
In fact, I bought my sister a Nano several years ago and the first thing she asked me was, "Where's the games?"
Paul Chapel @ Jan 10th 2009 6:16PM
As far as your battery concerns go, Saad, there are several external batteries available for the iPhone. I suggest you take a look.
http://www.mophie.com/products/juice-pack-iphone-3g
(Nice, the Mophie is contained in a sleeve that wraps around your phone)
http://richardsolo.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=264
There are several more. These are just two I could find doing a quick Google Search.
Mike10010100 @ Jan 10th 2009 6:16PM
"A non-geek." You mean like a business professional? The kind that have kept blackberries and Palm for years? The kind that couldn't give a crap about games? What's more important? Some chintzy graphics? Or the ability to add a date to your calendar without having to SYNC IT TO YOUR COMPUTER!?
To the average person, I would think that they would care more about the fact that their phone is going to die in the middle of the day with no warning if they play processor intensive games.
Mike10010100 @ Jan 10th 2009 6:17PM
You're actually pointing out that because external batteries exist they should be bought to remedy the situation that Apple doesn't have a large enough battery? By that logic, nobody should ever have to worry about batteries in normal cell phones because they are USER REMOVABLE, and one could have several charging and switch them out. It's really the same thing, and they both cost extra money.
Paul Chapel @ Jan 10th 2009 6:18PM
Actually, Mike, when I say non-geek, I was thinking the sixteen year old girls that you accuse of being the primary owners of iPhones. Didn't you say that just yesterday?
Mike10010100 @ Jan 10th 2009 6:21PM
You provide links to everyone else's comments. Why not mine? Oh that's right. Because I NEVER SAID THAT!
I know several people who didn't know that the iPhone couldn't take video before they bought it. They regret it just for that. They are non-geeks. Same with the calendar. Same with the user-replaceable battery.
Paul Chapel @ Jan 10th 2009 6:23PM
10 million people have bought iPhones, so I guess all those people found ways to deal with the lack of a battery. My best friend uses the Mophie. I've never seen him run out of power.
Saad Rabia @ Jan 10th 2009 6:28PM
Good for those 10 million, Paul, but the iPhone is still not a gaming platform, and when people find out what they were missing after using the Pre, iPhone will be playing catch-up.
Paul Chapel @ Jan 10th 2009 6:43PM
Apple will have a new iPhone out in June. Phil Schiller pretty much confirmed it when talking to David Pogue.
"He noted that Apple marches to certain annual product cycles: the holiday season (Novemberish), the educational buying season (late summer), the iPod product cycle (October), the iLife development cycle (usually March), the iPhone cycle (June)."
http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/01/08/a-strange-macworld-expo/
PALM made a major mistake releasing info on the phone at CES. Now Apple can make hardware changes and almost certainly make software changes to compete.
Saad Rabia @ Jan 10th 2009 6:48PM
Yeah Paul, I bet that Apple will make the new iPhone curvier, with a 3.2 MP Camera and add copy, without paste... Palm must be scared as hell.
Paul Chapel @ Jan 10th 2009 6:53PM
Yeah Saad, I bet that Palm will make the new Palm with a multi-core ARM chip, with 10,000 apps and games and sell 1 million phones in the first three days... Apple must be scared as hell.
Mike10010100 @ Jan 10th 2009 6:56PM
Congrats! Apple sold a lot of something when there weren't any decent alternatives out there!
Paul Chapel @ Jan 10th 2009 7:02PM
Whatever.
paul @ Jan 10th 2009 11:10PM
It doesn't particularly matter what Apple releases this June. These phones are targeting two separate groups: People who want a physical keyboard and people who don't. I don't think Pre is trying to steal away iPhone customers, I think they're trying to offer an equally great phone for people who want a physical keyboard.
Scott @ Jan 18th 2009 6:30PM
Saad would be all over mobile gaming, except he's a Microsoft fanboy and they don't have sh*t for a mobile OS right now, so he has to make up reasons why no one should enjoy a quality game on their phone.
liv @ Jan 10th 2009 4:44PM
That's where I think the Pre will fail. The iPod touch and the iPhone can already be considered gaming platforms. Games bring a lot of money for Apple and their developers. The ecosystem is suited for games, given the fact that the gadgets themselves are considered multimedia platforms (notice the emphasis on *fun*...). palm should really consider giving developers a binary SDK for games and such... It's a shame that that powerful Cortex A8 isn't put to better use than spreadsheets and PDF viewing :(
I'm amazed at how well palm pulled the official presentation off... The product is pretty cool. It looks great (minus the little holes where the speaker goes on the back), the OS is truly revolutionary, it goes very well with the whole "cloud"-based computing trend, it doesn't rip-off any competitor (*sigh the iPhone) and most importantly, they are the first company who actually listened to what users complained about. I am truthfully and thoroughly impressed.
loosely_coupled @ Jan 10th 2009 4:52PM
"The OS is truly revolutionary"...?? Do you actually understand what "revolutionary" means? This "WebOS" is far from that.. It is hardly even "evolutionary". Tell me, what functionality or features does it have that represent a "revolution" in mobile devices?? Everything I've seen looks just like Android or iPhone OS.
Joe H @ Jan 10th 2009 4:57PM
Anyone who says that this phone isn't revolutionary clearly hasn't seen any videos of it in action. It uses a brand new multitasking metaphor that makes so much sense its a wonder nobody has thought of it before. It includes the technology to pull together all of my contact data as well as Facebook data into one contact list which is always updated. It allows you to seamlessly switch from IM to SMS to email when someone signs offline without switching applications. I could go on, but those are the main things.
Saad Rabia @ Jan 10th 2009 4:59PM
Dude, are you serious?! iPhone gaming platform? Why? Because Apple said so?!
In all seriousness, the iPhone is nothing but a well designed OS. That doesn't make it a gaming platform, it is just like a well designed newspaper with lots of games in the last page; you can't call it a gaming booklet. Pre offers a great opportunity that you can't see until it is out, the powers of Java, CSS and Ajax are mind blowing, and they don't waste lots of space or battery power. Pre is going to be fun in its own way, using real future technology.
If gaming brings lots of money to the iPhone, well, multi-tasking alone will bring a lot more money to the Pre.
Paul Chapel @ Jan 10th 2009 5:52PM
The iPhone is capable of multi-tasking and Apple allows it for their own apps. Apple just doesn't allow it for third party developers. It wouldn't be exactly hard for Apple to change that policy if they wanted to, considering the iPhone and iPod Touch run OS X.
Saad Rabia @ Jan 10th 2009 5:56PM
Lol Paul Chapel, the day Apple allows open multi-tasking on their iPhone OS, iPhone will be in deep sh*t. :)
Paul Chapel @ Jan 10th 2009 6:06PM
I was just correcting your assertion that the iPhone is somehow incapable of multi-tasking. It is capable, but when it comes right down to it, it's not going to matter in the grand scheme of things. Go ask a person on the street whether they're excited that the Pre has multi-tasking and I guarantee they will give you a blank stare.
Multi-tasking only matters to geeks and geeks don't make gadgets popular. Regular people do.
Saad Rabia @ Jan 10th 2009 6:16PM
Yeah Paul, that's why people have dithced their multi-tasking computers and are all now using rocks and paper. If people use multi-tasking on a phone they would love it, because it is what every computer we use these days does, Windows, OS X or Linux.
I will ask people what Thermal Conductivity is, and I will get the same stare, that doesn't make it less important or not used in our lives.
Paul Chapel @ Jan 10th 2009 6:20PM
Whatever.
Mike10010100 @ Jan 10th 2009 6:24PM
Check and mate. Asshole.
Good one Saab. I hereby banish you, Paul Chapel, from ever posting on Engadget again, because you use absurd logic and take quotes out of context. You also spam windows and other phone's articles with Apple fanboyism.
Away with you.
Paul Chapel @ Jan 10th 2009 6:44PM
Whatever.
Jay @ Jan 10th 2009 4:47PM
It would also make sense for Palm not to focus on gaming at this point. We all need to remember, the software isn't finished and SDK 1.0 isn't even publicly available yet. Once Palm polishes up their OS itself, I definitely see Palm expanding their SDK for better gaming and multimedia support. They really gotta keep their priorities straight while their OS is still in development and get the basics solid first before expanding.
loosely_coupled @ Jan 10th 2009 4:50PM
"but unlike Apple's original vision for the iPhone, Palm's going to include libraries that allow devs to tap in to the Pre's hardware capabilities"
What exactly does this mean? like they'll connect javascript to a library for the camera or something?
Everyone ragged incessantly on Apple over this bullshit, but now that Palm is doing it its some great thing?? You guys need to call it what it is... A glorified web browser. You can only do so much with HTML and javascript, particularly on an ARM powered mobile device.
Its really a shame considering that phone has the next-gen PowerVR SGX graphics chipset... It would make an excellent device for graphics intensive apps and games...
Joe H @ Jan 10th 2009 5:01PM
Everyone ragged on the iPhone's 'web apps' because they weren't actually applications. You had to log onto the browser, pull up the website, and then it'd show the browser in a window. In addition, these had no awareness of any underlying hardware. There was no way to do notifications, etc. And, when you weren't online, you couldn't actually use any applications.
On the Pre, everything actually shows up as an application. Its not a application inside a browser, it uses the full screen to display. You don't have to open up the web first, you just open up the application. It can fully use the notification system and more. And, these applications are stored on the 8GB so that you can use them in range or not.