While we were happy just to see
pictures, Tom Conrad, CTO of
Pandora, is one of the lucky few to have seen in action the innards of the software that keeps things moving on the Pre. He sat down with
Palm Infocenter (on the wrong end of a zero-bar concall by the sounds) to talk details of
webOS software development. Conrad clarified that, despite all apps being mixtures of HTML, CSS, and JavaScript, webOS is more than just a big browser -- it has direct access to local files and UI elements. However, he echoed the fears of others that this web-friendly programming interface won't exactly be well suited for gaming, expressing hope that Palm will address this with integrated Flash support or some sort of a lower-level API to appease those who want to tap that
OMAP processor directly. Hit the read link to hear the whole conversation yourself.
[Thanks, Jay]
posted Jan 14th 2009 2:42PM
Does Engadget have a deal with Palm on hyping this thing??
I for one aren't waiting on this craptastic gadget.
A lot of people are interested in it so it drives page views and keeps them in business. Same thing with all the iCoverage. Doesn't interest me but I can't blame them if the interest is there.
Of course they do, didn't you see that large Sprint logo on the side of their CES trailer?
No.
@Chris
This is easily the most innovative phone since the original iPhone, and you're surprised that Engadget is giving it decent coverage? And, where do you get this "craptastic" idea from? Wait, don't tell me--you're one of those idiot Apple fanboys, upset that Palm of all companies has stolen the show!
On that note, congratulations are in order, as Palm has likely resurrected itself with this phone and the new WebOS. Just when I had counted them out completely, they go and pull something like this out of their hat! Apple should be very concerned; this is the iPhone killer, if ever there was one--and Palm is going to push this new hotness with all they've got. I for one, can't wait for it to arrive; I'd explain why, but this thing really speaks for itself.
P.S. I want to see a battle of the "iPhone killers" on Engadget, featuring the Pre vs. the Storm vs. the G1! FIGHT!
@Shelbz I was about to say the same thing.
Though to its credit it does look interesting. But so did android. Android looked good when it first was announced but so far its been quite disappointing. (not saying that it doesn't have potential, just not blown away by it) If they don't come out with something good at Mobile World Congress I will be very disappointed. I think overall there is too much hype and not enough show for many mobile phones. Only time will tell if this is the case for the Pre, I hope its not.
Chris: browser speed, accelerometer speed, processor, memory, true multitasking, capacitive screen, 3.5mm headphone jack, and a brand new slick mobile OS. How is that not worth headlines, and what about all that Is craptastic?
He should know. Isn't that the same processor Pandora uses?
/DLTTFA
...which is obvious as I thought they meant the other Pandora. An r-tard is me.
I ALSO thought they meant the other Pandora, that is, until I actually read the article.
Just to be clear, the Pandora in question is the Interwebs radio.
http://www.pandora.com/people/tconrad#
Yeah I realized that after reading the article but unfortunately also after I posted. I'm glad to hear they are working with Pandora. One less thing I have to worry about losing when I upgrade from my old Mogul. That thing looks outdated as hell but to switch to anything else (so far) would mean giving up at least some of the functionality I use regularly.
If Pre keeps the GPS, Exchange support, multitasking, streaming media, video recording, copy/paste, etc. of my old clunker I would gladly upgrade for the hardware bump.
I can't wait to dump my HTC touch when the Pre becomes available.
God I miss physical keys!
Cool!
Hey! how did you like how the Pre phone worked?
I personally feel this webos is quite similar to android in capability.
Sincerely, the analysts are that naive to believe that Palm went that far just to offer web widgets?
Just give some time people, they already hinted that access to the 3D funcitons (and more) will come eventually. And even if they didn't hint it, it's pretty obvious they will ;)
Well, the mobile phone world hasn't exactly been a bunch of happy surprises, everything tends to be a bit of a letdown, so yeah, if they didn't come out and say something, people have learned not to get their hopes up. We have enough letdowns even when they DO explicitly promise us stuff.
-Taylor
Man... I own an iPhone 3G, and I LOVE it, and I'll admit I am an Apple fanboy but.... Man, this phone is good looking. When the GSM version comes out and if it comes to AT&T, I will SERIOUSLY consider switching.
Of course, I'll wait and see what Apple whips up this summer. it all depends. But at the moment, the Pre is looking really, REALLY tempting.
Are you one of those guys who buys a car because it looks nice from the OUTSIDE?
No matter what Apple whips up this summer, you should be seriously considering switching...
@ Dan Fzzawhat
He DID say he was an Apple fanboy.
I think this approach is all wrong, why develop your own OS when you have many options already available? Couldn't they have just supported android and added stuff they wanted to it, instead of building their own OS based on linux again?
If you can build a better OS than is out there, then you do it.
Palm tailored webOS for the way they wanted their devices to work. One example is the auto save function. Supposedly, there is no save button anywhere. It just does it. Even if Android could pull that off, it wouldn't be as elegant (code wise) as webOS.
Palm should take the Microsoft route with this.
What will make this phone win even more are...
DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS
Being late to the next gen device party they will need SALES, SALES, SALES to attract DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS. First mistake, CDMA and SPRINT for an initial launch. They should have had GSM/3G right away to gain global reach. Silly Rabbits...
Since it's a WebOS and all, there already are thousands (millions) of developers who could develop for it with little or no learning curve.
But yeah, GSM/3G needed too.
@superhobo & Frankenstein Black
You do realize that all US carriers have 3G right? Verizon and Sprint have the largest, most reliable and fastest 3G network. Sprints 3G network is 5 times larger than ATT and 40+ times larger than Tmobile and growing. 3G is third generation wireless. ATT and Apple did not start the industries 3G network with the iphone. Verizon and Sprint have had their 3G networks for years, ATT and Tmobile started theirs last year and they have a long way to go. Sprint is in the process of launching 4G and they will have a larger 4G footprint than ATT's 3G.
With regard to Palm launching the Pre on Sprint, it happened for several reasons, here are a few:
1) Sprint and Palm have always been loyal partners, Palm devices usually launch on Sprint first.
2) The Palm Centro has been a HUGE success, 2 million sold worldwide 700,000 sold on Sprint.
3) Sprint has been rated to have the largest most reliable network.
4) Sprint will be deploying 4G much sooner than the other carriers, EVDO Rev-A will be upgraded to Rev-C 3.5G then Rev-C 4G or some speculate will be Wimax.
One, er two problem/s, (1) CDMA SUX AZZ (dated, no sim tech, and globally limited) and (2) Wimax also SUX AZZ (globally limited and globally incompatible). That coupled with Sprint hemoraging customers and, well, you have a formula for disaster regardless of how good a device appears to be. The mobile global future is GSM/UMTS/LTE none of which Sprint is apart of. Why even Verizon is getting on the LTE bandwagon for 4G. So if Palm wants to move product globally the phone tech out of the gate has to have quadband GSM/UMTS/LTE!
Sure, there's thousands of designers who know HTML, but the real programmers and engineers who you actually want to see writing your apps are experts in real programming languages. I know dozens of awesome programmers, and most of them don't know jack about HTML. With C or Java they could make something amazing in no time.
Most of the people I know who are good at HTML totally suck at writing software. Palm has aimed this dev kit at the wrong group of people. I don't know if I would really want a bunch of web designers writing applications. How many really well polished web sites are there compared to well polished software? It just doesn't compare.
He sounded like a "zero-bar conf call" because EVERYONE KNEW YOU CAN'T MIX INTERNET PORN WITH VOIP, but hey; what's more important, your 30mb high-quality download or a silly phone call? Only one can be enjoyed over and over again.
I wonder how much better this will be over the iPhone... It's already looking like an improvement. Will it make me regret buying an iPhone?
STick with the iPhone if you like to play games
Heres a little info most folks do not know, the reason ATT customers pay so much in data/plans for the iphone is partly due to the revenue sharing contract ATT foolishly agreed on with Apple. Included in a customers monthly service fee is an additional fee which goes towards Apple. That is one of the reasons Apple was turned away by a particular carrier. Now, I do not know if you're an ATT customer or if you're from Europe or somewhere else, ask yourself this question... If you are or were an ATT customer and you found out that included in your monthly service fee is revenue for Apple, would you still keep the iphone?? Would you become an ATT customer knowing this?
@awake
Yes, I am an ATT customer. May I ask, where are you getting this information from? I do agree though that the fee is a bit high, therefore there clearly is some pocket change. If what you are saying is true, then shame on Apple, haven't they earned enough from the iPhone sales?
@Andrejkw
This is from June 2008 it briefly touches on what I've mentioned.
http://theappleblog.com/2008/06/12/the-cheaper-iphone-3g-will-cost-users-more-att-raises-monthly-fee/
Well it depends what you crave for, and what the final product will "look" like. Personally I like this Palm Pre alot because of initial videos demoing the responsivenes of the OS over the iPhone. Other people might rather have a iPhone or win mo phonefor some specific reason. Ask yourself what you want from a phone and take it from there... :)
IMHO the device that has the best flash support will win this round. Watch!
PS Oh, and of course it should not crash, support MMS and C/P. Just sayin...
god i want this phone so bad.
its making me cry
Really? With a phone like this and the promise it displays people are worrying about it's gaming capabilities?
So far, how can one not be impressed? I have never owned a Palm and wouldn't consider a Treo. Yet, the feature set on the Pre is compelling. Much more impressive than Android or WinMo (I run both right now and am happy with WinMo 6.1). And, of course, it stomps all over the iPhone from a business user perspective.
Perfectly said, if you were to cancel out the UI on the iphone and put it up against any Winmo device, the iphone could not hold the jockstrap of a Winmo device. The iphone has a pretty UI and that is it. What folks need to understand is that Palm has taken everything great about Windows Mobile, everything great about the Blackberry and everything great about the "iphone" and made it better by integrating everything into a single platform. The Palm Pre is running laps around the phone!
I'm an avid gamer, but really, having 3D games on a phone just seems dumb to me. No matter how good you get the graphics, it's still not going to impress many people, but the real issue is that it's a phone, and has buttons for phones. There's no analog sticks, no ergonomic way to hold it for gaming, and no battery life once you do get 3d games up and running. It's a neat idea, but in reality it just isn't practical. I'd rather palm focus on making it's OS snappy and intuitive, and give it the features you need in a mobile phone, than waste everyones time with silly games. You want gaming on the go? Grab a ds or a psp.
yes, there are very practical and usability limits to convergence. If you want something done well, it more-or-less needs to stop trying to be all things to everybody.
I have heard that all Wii games are also written on a similar platform and can easily use 3D via special OpenGL JavaScript libraries. Could someone confirm that?
we are busy, do your own research
@gb
you're kind of an asshole, but it made me giggle so +1 anyway.
"we are busy, do your own research"
I like how you speak for the whole interwebz. It makes me smile, because we are a busy lot.
Hey pandora, get off your ass and release a VGA WinMo client .. Geezz.. Only 20 million Windows Mobile phones were sold last year.
Oh and I know its the wrong Pandora... but thats just collateral damage
Who over the age of 12 even plays cell phone games anymore? I remember playing snake on my cell phone a long time ago to pass the time, but now, I'd much rather read through e-mails, or browse the web if I have time to kill.
we all play the phone games while our legs go numb
Now that you mention it, I spent a hell of a lot more time playing snake on my Nokia than I do playing anything on my iPhone.
Not well suited to games? The hell you say.
I said it in the big expose thread on the Pre: It's awesome, and Palm really pulled a rabbit out of their hat with it, but until they finally give some love to the entertainment sector (for the first time in Palm's history) the Pre will not be considered competitive to the iPhone, Android, or even Blackberry. And that is a damn, cryin' shame, because the Pre looks like it could have had long legs if Palm hadn't cut them off at the knees. Palm had better get some cutting edge prosthetics attached (read: a real SDK with a proper programming language and access to a solid graphics API) pronto if they really want to return to relevancy. And I say this as a former Palm fan. (Owned 5 PDAs and 4 Treos over the last 8 years.)
1) I hope that Engadget-Apple/iPhone conspiracy theorist will see how ridiculous they come off after reading Chris' moronic rant: "Does Engadget have a deal with Palm on hyping this thing?? I for one aren't waiting on this craptastic gadget."
2) As someone who snatched up the original Palm Pilot and happily continued on through to still owning a Treo 650, I couldn't be more impressed with Palm's Pre/WebOS. HOWEVER, I'm worried. Why? One word: Android.
Had the Pre/WebOS come out BEFORE Android/G1 I would see a rather bright future for Palm. But it came out so far after, that Palm's achievements might be not too little, but just might be too late. The ground swell for Android has already begun. Every electronics company from no name shops in the Chinese hinterland to new companies like GiiNii, to Motorola have been caught up in Android's building avalanche. And why not? Why pay for R&D or licensing fees to Microsoft, Symbian (or even Palm for that matter) when anyone can adopt Android for free and let giant Google and independents work to develop and enhance the OS?
This will not kill Palm and WebOS (at least not for in the near term), but it will significantly blunt it's success as developer's already flocking to Android release more and better apps for it.
Frankenstein Black is quite correct—"Being late to the next gen device party they will need SALES, SALES, SALES to attract DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS."
Developers that between the iPhone and Android may be otherwise occupied.
(Sigh) As a long time lover of Palm OS and products, I can only hope I am very wrong in my assertions.
Ok. Either i missed it, or they still haven't said who the lucky carrier(s) will be. It better not get some awful rebranded name. I still quiver when i hear "T-Mobile Dash" or "EnV"
Pre is garbage to me until they release a real devkit. Writing a program in HTML, regardless of the APIs available, is crap. It's seriously limiting in what you can accomplish, and even simple programs are a hundred times easier to write with a real language than with HTML.
This "web" slant is laziness on Palm's part, no matter how they try to spin it.