Ecobee's eco-saving, WiFi-enabled Smart Thermostat now available for order
By Ross Miller 
posted Jan 30th 2009 6:24AM
posted Jan 30th 2009 6:24AM
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Do they seriously need two seperate models for Farenheit and Celsius? Surely that can just be an option in the device?
I think the Celsius model is actually just the one to order if you're Canadian, in which case you get a discount.
Do we seriously need this at all? I mean I still have a 1995-spec slide dial in my place, does the job just dandy. My parents have a digital one, also does the job just dandy. How much technology do we really need to invest in something like a thermostat?
@Level 5: Well, your slide dial is most likely costing you money. Of course, a $50 programmable digital thermo would repay itself pretty quickly by automatically raising and lowering the temperature when you're not scheduled to be home.
@Drew - Very true, and I keep on top of the slider as much as possible. I live in an apartment so I can't really do a whole lot about replacing it with a programmable one. I did bug the leasing office to see if they'd be willing to go digital, I even lied and said it wasn't working; but they were only willing to replace it with another slider. Maybe at my next place lol.
You'd think you could select between the two....F or C.
As for the practicality of this, it would make sense to get if you live in an older home that has thermostats in odd places. It appears as though you could have a wireless thermostat to take into whatever room you were hanging out in, and the AC would bring the room to that temp.
Just did the workaround in the second floor of my 80 year old home, moving the thermostat from the hallway to the main bedroom. Quite a difference, since I can now turn down the bottom floor a lot at night and keep the separate upstairs rooms at a set temperature.
Kumar -- not true. There's a control unit that you put near the HVAC, and wire the controls to that. Then you use the existing thermostat wires to connect that control unit to the panel/display, although the wires are used, it appears, for electricity/power plus communications. The only wireless is to connect to the internet.
I wish I could remote into this thing myself with Live Mesh.
Save on the monthly fee and the payback would be faster.
Could this possibly be the first tstat EVER to play Crysis?
...For some strange reason I thought that said Wii Fit-enabled Thermostat and I got so confused.
Why is He** do all of these companies think that people want to pay an annual fee? I was ready to buy the monster before that tidbit of information.
same here.. was thinking of getting one until they wanted a yearly fee.. it's all about making money.. and milking us..
I came to say just that. Maye $350 cool, but not $350 + $35/year cool. Too bad, I'm in the market for a programmable thermostat.
Plus, I assume that means if ecobee goes out of business, all the web-based aspects disappear.
My sentiments exactly. $350 is already steep for a tstat. Adding an annual fee, even $5/yr, is adding insult to injury. I can imagine the thing costs $50 and annual $20. Or $350 w/ no fees. Either way it's got fail sauce slathered all over it.
I've been waiting for this since I first saw it, although the $35 annual fee kinda sucks. Right now, we're using a decades-old twist-style thermostat, and I'm 99% sure it does a terrible job of keeping the house properly warmed and cooled.
Definitely on the buy list (along with a new dishwasher).
Let's see, I might save $27 annually in energy costs with this thing, but I have to pay them $35 per year for the privilege of using this. Hey...wait a minute. It's a trap!
For the price of one of these you can buy 2or 3 top-of-the-line White-Rogers or Honeywell T-stats and not have to pay $35/year.
Plus - you have to pay someone to install it apparently.....come on - how hard can it be?
Sure, but I think every thermostat says that. It looks no more difficult to install than any other thermostat.
From the blog entries it appears there is something more to the install than connect the 4 wires.
@Level5 -- replacing a thermostat isn't too big a deal. I replaced my apartment thermostat with a programmable, and then put back the original one when I moved out . . . in two different apartments. It's just 4 (or so) wires that you match up to the same terminals on a programmable. .You need a screwdriver and about 5-10 minutes, plus a trip to a big box.
MAME on my 'stat?!?!? Woo Hoo!
Don't bother me now hon, I'm saving money on our heating and cooling costs!
I have a programmable thermostat and it doesn't save any money. Why? Because we already kept the AC at 78 and the heat at 75. So unless you program this unit to put your house at 82+ for AC and 70 for heat, you won't save. You'd have to have some seriously drastic temp conditions to save any money using this thing. Oh, and you can have any thermostat programmed to do that, $35 at Home Depot.
Heat at 75!?! That's a sauna . . .
I pity the fool who doesn't know celcius.
Makes me wonder what happens if you DON'T pay the $35 a year. Can you only program it through their web interface?
i was thinking the same thing, whats to stop a clever hacker from enabling this thing without the monthly fee?
i mean they can't physically disconnect the wires from your furnace/air conditioning from the internet...
Wait can't I hack my chumby to do this for free?
Widget somebody quick....
Been waiting for these since they were first announced....my order for (2) has been placed - can't wait to get them!
This requires installation by a licensed HVAC technician or the warranty is voided. It comes with an equipment interface which is to be installed near your HVAC equipment. It has about 20 wire terminals in it.
So, not only do you have to pay $35 a year for a web portal, but you also have to pay a HVAC guy to install it. I'll pass.
Being a iMate Momento victim I wonder if that access fee has something to do with an online service...
This thing looked really cool, and I was very tempted to buy one but the extremely high price, mandatory installation hassle, and worst of all, recurring annual fee (wtf?) just closed the deal. DO NOT WANT. I'll wait for someone to make a knock-off with all I'm really interested in; the cool LCD-panel with widgety-interface, and 802.11 connection.
OK the device is high enough already, but I'm willling to overlook that, but a 35 dollar yearly access fee??? What a bunch of bull crap that is. I bought it already I should be able to connect to it whenever and wherever I want without a fee. Geezus....they'll find anyway to screw you over. It's not like a smart, programmable thermostat can't do the same you know. How many times am I going to need turning on and off my AC while away from home anyway. The AC activate by temperature...that is all the automation I will ever need. What can this device possibly do differently to save me more money than a standard programmable thermostat I can pick up at home depot for 100 bucks?
Wow... what a complete waste of $$.
If you need a high end cost saving killer stat go buy a Honeywell Vision Pro IAQ stat... they don't sell it at home depot/lowes look for it online. Sure it might not have the pretty GFX, but it'll do a lot more.
I don't get where the price is coming from. Software? Green tax for eco morons?
I would like to just see a $40 programmable t-stat that can be programed and monitored with bluetooth for say another $40. So $80 would get it done. Similar touch screen t-stats are about $100 so that would be $140. The rest would be software and maybe a few wireless temp modules as options.
First, full disclosure, I am Stuart Lombard, one of the founders of ecobee.
Thanks for all the comments and feedback. I would like to respond to the main comments in the thread regarding the $35 annual fee. When we designed the ecobee Smart Thermostat, we made a design decision to have the web interface communicate with a hosted web server in a tier 1 data center. We did this for several reasons. First, simplicity from a consumers perspective. Having the thermostat communicate with a hosted web server in the cloud means that the thermostat is easy to find on the internet at a known url (www.ecobee.com). Running the web server on the thermostat itself would require a static ip address or the use of a dynamic dns hosting service. A static ip address makes the device harder to find on the internet and a dynamic dns hosting service is not trivial for the average homeowner to set up and also costs money. Running the web server on the thermostat itself would also require users to make changes to their firewall settinggs which is also not trivial for the average consumer. Finally, running the web server on the thermostat would create performance issues, limit the ability to add applications to the thermostat and limit the data that we could use and store on the device. For all of these reasons, we decided to host the web services in the cloud. The side effect of that decision is that it costs money to host the service in the cloud. We charge the $35 annual fee (the firstyear which is included in the cost of the thermostat) to offset those costs. The annual fee also covers alerts and reminders, access to weather forecasts and firmware upgrades.
The thermostat will operate without the web service (albeit with no internet connectivity). It is difficult to compare the ecobee Smart Thermostat with the Honeywell Provision or White Rodgers thermostats since they either do not offer a web interface or the web enabled models cost approximately $1000 or more, require professional HVAC installation and have a ongoing $50/year fee. Clearly, we are not a dial thermostat, so there is no point in debating that one.
We hope that homeowners see the value in what we have built, we have received great response to the product, and we hope that you like it.
Please keep the comments coming as they help us build a better product.
Best regards,
Stuart
Thanks, but I would rather pay $1000 for a thermostat with an integrated web server and without an anual fee.
Who do you think will be buying a wi-fi enabled smart thermostat? I'm betting that you will not sell one to my grandma or any other non-technical person. The issues that you have listed as reasons for the $35 a year charge are trivial for most people who would be interested in the product.
Stuart,
In a nutshell I think this is a great idea but it may be overbuilt. Geeks will be just about the only group who will want this for mostly its cool factor, I do not know that they really care too much about the fact it allows them to do anything more than their current $40 digital junker. Certainly average Joe will not. However even geeks will not be too excited to about paying yearly monthly fees for web services as they get most web services for free. Also programming ability (via SDK, or at minimum documentation) is a must, if you are selling to bitheads they want this. Remember this is a $400 device that you have to run 110AC to that will not be there, running new wire is not the easiest thing to do. So the device better be amazingly stellar to go through that amount of work.
With all that said, you did add Zigbee which is awesome! Now just find a way to drop the price to $150-$200 and drop yearly service fee and I along with everyone else here would buy one from you.
-Joe
Good luck with this . . . it looks like an intriguing product.
I can understand the reason for the pricing, but if I'm representative of anything I'm going to have a hard time finding the $35 of value each year in being able to change the temp of my house online. You're a business, so I'm sure you'll figure out if we're right or wrong. Hope it works, because the product looks nice, just not the pricing right now.
Wow, way to have the company brass reply to criticism. I called ecobee, and they had top notch customer service, and I thin Mr. Lombard's reply in this forum is another indication of this fact.
I talked to sales and technical support, and they gave me a very good idea of what was involved in installation. I have no intention of having an HVAC technician install mine. To give an idea of my level of expertise, I wired every room in my house for phone, cable and Ethernet, and I've installed overhead lighting by myself. That being said, I'm comfortable running a 110V AC line, and know how to read a wiring diagram. I'll admit that this device looks quite a bit more difficult to install than a standard thermostat, but I don't think it's impossible for a handy user. I told the technician on the phone that I intended to install it myself, and he didn't mention anything about voiding the warranty.
Another thing I can speak to is Mr. Lombard's comments about why they chose to host the service in the cloud. Despite the fact that everyone here seems to be comfortable poking holes in their firewall and setting up a static/dynamically routed IP address on a residential Internet connection, I can assure that a majority of their target audience would have trouble with this. I think that $35 a year is a little steep, but I'm willing to live with it.
All and all, I'm excited about getting my ecobee. If I happen to blow up my furnace when installing it I'll be sure to post a follow-up. :)
Prohlphix doesn't charge an annual fee and it does all this one does and more, and doesn't require a professional to install it, and will email you if temp drops to a given temp, useful in case you are out of town and the furnace cacks.
http://www.proliphixstore.com/evalkitnt120.html
I would hardly compare the thermostat you linked in your comment. It requires a cat 5 connection, includes a power supply, and is about the same price ($400). Not to mention that the display looks like a standard digital readout you can get on any digital thermostat. The Ecobee solution, even with the added installation effort and cost, appears to be much more elegant than this one, with a killer UI. C'mon guys. Less than $3/month for wireless and a web interface. I know the economy is bad, but don't some of you spend more than that PER DAY on Starbucks?
Wow, so they've figured out a way to attach a monthly fee to your home thermostat! Ingenious! Yet another "Nickle-and-Diming-of-America" (that's my coined phrase for this new phenomenon.)
i was excited at first then disappointed...
pros
nice interface for programming...accessible
nice to have access over web
wireless connecdtivity (just not sure how useful this really is for new construction or even retrofit since wire is already there)
cons
can't handle multi zone
programming functi0onality available on many competing products so why pay the premium
tout "green"...most competitors have the same functionality (albeit not quite as slick)
i am just a geeky homeowner...i wanted to be impressed, but this product doesn't rate for the price
"A static ip address makes the device harder to find on the internet"
What? WHAAAT?
Oh, right, you're targeting rich ignorant folks who can't type a dotted quad correctly.
Never mind.
An interesting techno-product. Of course, I just purchased a Lux electronic programmable thermostat for $80 (via Ace Hardware online), which comes with an RF remote to raise or lower the thermostat from anywhere in the house. Not as snazzy as a website, but, IMHO, at a much more approachable price. (The only downsides of the Lux: you can't have more than one remote per thermostat, and there's no LCD showing the current or set temp. on the remote--suggestions for the next model, to make this a perfect solution.)
that's a ridiculous price for a thing that tells the temperature.
I am waiting for an iPhone app then I will get an ecobee.
Andy
I really want to like this. The interface is light years beyond my current programmable (and would lead to a lot fewer headaches in regards to the wife trying to reset the temp); but the fact I need to run external AC wires to my fargin thermostat is a major turn off. Who care if your display is nice if you've got wires all over your wall?!
I'm pretty sure you don't need AC. Looking at the installation isntructions it appears you use the existing therm. wires to power the head unit, running those back to the control unit that you mount near your HVAC. You plug the control unit in next to your HVAC, and run wires from it to the HVAC for actual control.
scooby doo where are you?
So what happens if/when the company goes out of business, my 400 dollar thermostat just turned into a 100 dollar programmable thermostat. What is wrong with a 100 dollar thermostat. And is there really a need to monitor the condition of your AC over the web 24/7/360? Come on folks...who needs this much control. A smart thermostat should be able to set it and forget it. Who needs to babysit it? This product just appeals to techie who thinks it's cool to have a wifi thermostat. The regularu Joe wouldn't care for it. And if I'm interested in it, I would certainly know how to get a host name for DynDNS.org for free. and set up exceptions in my firewall. Basically, non techie people wouldn't be interested in this and the techie people are not going to pay 35 dollars a year for service. So I think these guys will be stuck with a product nobody wants.
Now if they would only make one of these for my sprinkler system.
Forget the yearly fee and make an add-in for Windows Home Server. That would hit a core market interested in a product like this.
Yeah, I was really stoked about this. Even figured I could easily swallow the price tag, then I heard about the $35 annual fee, ugh. Then I read about the what seems to be difficult "should only be installed by a certified HVAC Technician", that pretty much ended it for me. I think this idea has great potential, but there should be an easy "plug & play" device and has no further costs associated with it. Sorry, Mr. Lombard, I'm out.
no thanks looks cool but the 35 bucks and the goofy power supply isnt going get my sale ill stick with my Proliphix Network Thermostat Model NT120h
I bought one. You don't have to pay the yearly fee. You can do all the programming from the thermostat.
The web interface and alerts are cool but if you don't want that part you don't pay for it.
You can also use it from any web enabled mobile device. Just go to ecobee's website login and you can change all your settings.
Yes an ipod/iphone/windows mobile app would be very cool.
Also the addition of more features on the thermostat, like how many times the heat or AC cycled on and for how long per day and estimated costs per day and month of running the system.
It really is stupid easy to use and to program. Its not just for techies. Its nice to be able to set temps based on when you are home, asleep, away and when you wake up and actually be able to change them with a few clicks or taps on the thermostat. They really did their homework on interface.
Price is a bit much and cost me about $140 for an install. But my hope is there will be more features you can add to the device over time. And whoever is saying the device is too much? People paid almost $500 for new phones when they come out so put it into perspective.
I do think based on current features it should be $250 plus $12 a year for the online portal. (You can get basic web hosting for that)
Only because >$100 for install. I called 3 of the different preferred installers and 2 wanted to charge me $85-$100 just to come to my home, excluding the time to install.
Also if you are older or are not computer savvy how does it sound to pay $25 per 15 minutes to have an HVAC guy setup your wireless and program your thermostat? These HVAC people are being forced to become "PC" people and I don't think many of the installers are up to the task. My installer was salty as hell and complained about how the future of these systems were all about computers and how he thought all these green people and liberal tree huggers were just as fad. This coming from the guy I was paying to install this.
Ecobee needs to really work with their recommended installers better or actually play middle man between the customer and the HVAC provider to get a fixed install rate and provisions for setup/programming fees for the non-tech crowd.
I understand that's not easy to control 3rd parties but having some disgruntled tech/green hating installer come out to install a green product is pretty ironic.
I agree with most the previous comments . Lots of great featuresl but the $400 price and recurring fees are too high . Mandatory requirement of licensed HVAC installation required for warranty is hard to take . I would likely choice Proliphix even though is it is not wireless and maybe somewhat less versatile .
A user review -
http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/34709834/m/812000427931/inc/1
Here is one user's installation and comments -
http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/34709834/m/812000427931/inc/1
Oops -
correct link to user review - ( search for Ecobee at http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/forums if link below does not work . -
http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/34709834/m/793004517931?r=793004517931#793004517931
If you guess another wireless option would be to use the Prolyphix with a wireless bridge ( eg AirPort Express ) but then that adds more complexity to the installation (will Proliphix be there for support ?) .