It's Monday, which apparently means time for yet another Blu-ray fighting Chinese high definition disc format, this time NVD. With
China Blue HD barely out the door and
EVD conspicuous only in its absence, HD NVD players apparently went on sale today in Wuhan, featuring 12GB of storage on a red laser disc format that -- unlike the Toshiba technology backed CBHD / HD DVD variant -- is not only
Made in China, but Created in China, with the hope that owning their own IP can net 4-5 times the profit for its manufacturers. 80% of the world's DVDs and players are reportedly produced in China, so now production lines can switch to NVD HD cheaply -- stop us if you've heard this
before. It's clear that these companies are chafing under the royalties of foreign tech, but until we hear something about content support in any major way, it's hard to believe this format war is even worth fighting. Us? We're still holding out for
VCDHD.
Read - NVD: independent innovation to safeguard national economic security
Read - China's proprietary red-ray NVD makes its debut
posted Feb 2nd 2009 4:32PM
So HD DVD all over again?
HD NVD and HD DVD are two entirely different formats. For one, HD DVD uses blue laser tech whereas HD NVD uses red lasers. Also, HD DVD fit 15GB per layer, opposed to 12.
Also, from the looks of Ice Age being on that TV, they probably have 20th Century Fox's approval.
If anything, I'd say that HD NVD is about on the same level as HD VMD. But seeing that this is entirely produced by the Chinese, I could see this as possibly succeeding in their market.
I'm thinking more like PAL, NTSC, SECAM, all over again. Different nations preferring to use their own encoding standards.
Just like with multi-region DVD players, HD players will also converge. Note how many Blu-Ray/HD drives are currently available.
Somebody’s gotta come up with something workable, cause I’m still never gunna buy a Blu-Ray player.
@liqwid
BLU-RAY uses blue lasers, not HD DVD.
Still sticking it out with all of your VHSs? Or did you go laserdisk before stopping evolving?
@Byrdman
Blu-ray and HD-DVD both use(d) (basically the same) blue laser.
"stop us if you've heard this before"
I have no faith in this new format moving beyond China's borders - if it made it to America, it would die the same death HDDVD did. In fact, I have faith that the Chinese will most likely shy away from it in order to get the cheaper, regular DVD's.
One thing you should understand about China is the vast majority of the population is living in poverty. That is, living on less than $1 per day, while the middle class makes less than $20,000 a year on average. When you factor in the Yuan exchange rate, $20,000 US isn't so bad in China's less populous cities such as Shen Zhang or Hang Zhou, but the only Chinese you'd see buying things like this would be living in Beijing, Shanghai or Shan Dong or Hong Kong. ( I lieved in china for 3 years).
Chinese right now are HURTING cause of the economic crisis. Migrant workers are hurting, the middle class is hurting and the poor are STARVING. No one is anticipating a new type of DVD and no one is gonna pay more for it if its alot more than a regular DVD. Most Chinese homes don't have HDTV. Most of them are watching CCTV on a regular CRT monitor.
Flashpoint, you are correct. But I would like to tell you that Hong Kong is a lot more different compare to other cities in mainland China.
Hong Kong is an international financial metropolis. You can basically buy whatever you can find around the world. Of course that means the gadgets are following the flow of rest of the world from Japan, US, and Europe. This HD NVD will definitely not going to be popular at all. People in Hong Kong may not even heard of EVD, even in China, I bet people have only heard of DVD because you can only find DVDs everywhere instead of EVD or whatever the crap formats out there created in China. People in Hong Kong nowadays talk about Blu-Rays, HD, Digital TVs and now the economic crisis -- the money.
@Flashpoint
While I agree with your sentiments entirely, this isn't about helping the country's citizens, it's about bolstering their prestige ("we've developed our own format all by ourselves"). Much the same can be said of India and China's recent space programmes.
Flashpoint has Hong Kong pegged so wrong that I'm not sure I believe the rest of his post.
Most people in even decent sized cities will make between $3000 to $12,000. Of course, things cost a lot less there (beer for $0.30 to $0.50, cigarettes for $1), and all films are bootlegged anyway. The format of the disk really doesn't matter. HD does serve a purpose, as some people really do have HDTVs there. Perhaps not a large percentage of their population, but certainly a large number of people nonetheless.
Ian
When I first lived in China, the Yuan Exchange rate was 8.677 Y - $1
At that point, things like 1.5 liters of soda were less than 80 cents and food was on the cheap.
But thanks to our current dollar, and China allowing the Yuan to readjust, the Yuan is now 6.8 - $1
Now going there feels like going to an American city in terms of prices. I also lived in Japan while the exchange was 113Yen - $1. Now its like 90 Y - $1 .
A bottle of soda back then for $2.00 costs noticeably more now.
You are right, I shouldn't say all of Hong Kong, but the Toi San region of Shang Gang province (HK) and the surrounding areas are STILL Poor.
I am a regular Asia traveller and I'm Mandarin/Japanese fluent.
Technically, HD DVD and Blu-ray utilize an indigo spectrum. No, truly.
Sounds like Flashpoint likes the asian tranny special.
China will choose whatever is cheaper to pirate with.
exactly!
Who cares if there is title support. There will be plenty of pirated versions available.
Awwww, I thought the format war was over...
China, hurry up and make me a hplographic hard drive already..
is that too much to ask?
Yes i know, the p is very close to the o
They'll make thousands; they just have to wait for somebody else to make one first.
they probably will make a hplographic drive.. basically a bootleg of a real holographic drive :P
12GB of space on a disc? That's sort of pathetic. It's cheap but we need to move towards a disc format that can contain 50 gb of space.
WHY ?
if the gaming industry has ANY proof what so ever
its that
you DONT need that much space
i mean look at games that are mutli platform
aprox 80% of the time
they look better on the x360 as opposed to the ps3
you still have dlc and such
and its cheaper to make DVD's
so
dvd is here to stay
and i personally think that digital download has a better chance than blueray
just my $0.02
DVD's will be as useful as CD's are in 2 years mostly just for small files you need to mail that can't be emailed and for clients that can't figure out how to ftp anything. More space is always better it's not just for games and movies, it's also for storage backup and eventually the price will go down.
alex
thats the thing though
"when the price goes down"
didja hear we are in a recession
but i see your point
but price drops can Never come fast enough =/
I know it takes time and I realize we are in a recession, but I think Blu-ray will take less time to become affordable than DVD's did. About 2 years ago I didn't think DVD's were that cheap, now they are, but that's because they are an old format.
Actually technically speaking we are not in a recession...at least not for another month or so.
This will be incredibly successful... in giving an excuse for Chinese companies to source parts without paying the license fees that go with them. Before, if you bought certain decoder parts, the makers of the parts would charge license fees to be paid back to the DVD/BluRay consortiums. Now, the companies can buy the parts without that fee and tell the companies they will pay the fees directly to the consortiums but only on the parts they use to make DVD/BluRay players.
So they'll make 99% DVD/BluRay players and tell the licensing companies they are making only 1% DVD/BluRay players and thus cut down their license fees.
my friend you just uncovered the secret to success for many *many* companies in the world.. IMO its fair enough what they re doing. supplying the world with cheap stuff, why shouldnt they want a bigger piece of the cake?.business is war.. you wont succeed being nice!
Yeah, it's a racket, but it's business.
As the article mentions, DVD fees are $18/unit. So there's no way the fees were paid on the progressive out DVD player I could buy for $26 at Target at Xmas. That'd leave only $8 to cover unit costs, shipping, markups, etc!
So the company who made those units found a way to evade the DVD fees. Now the same companies are cooking ways to do it for BluRay too. Maybe that means BluRay is finally hitting the big time?
I have no clue what you mean by $18 a DVD Player. In China you can basically buy any brands of DVD players. They have a lot of localized players from Chinese companies, but you also get those generic ones without any brand names that you can choose any famous electronics logos and the sales will stick them on the player.
So I can have a generic DVD player with Samsung, Sony, HP, Apple, JVC, Hitachi, Sanyo, Pioneer, and the rest of the company logos all on the same DVD player.
It's right there in the article:
http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/90001/90776/90881/6580305.html
It says that license fees are $18 for every DVD player made. So if you buy a DVD player for $26, then chances are the DVD consortium didn't get their proper take.
Let the games begin!
I personally think its exciting, don't know about everyone else but the consumer has the power, you can leave it and watch it pass by or embrace and give blu-ray a run for its money!
i hope youre not implying that the end consumer had anything to do with the death of hd-dvd, cuz we didnt. that choice was made for us.
Wait.... is this relevant. How many Blu Ray discs are actually sold?
China is undoubtedly the superpower of the future, and I bet we'll start seeing China gaining more and more technological wealth, and manufacture their own stuff instead of paying royalties to foreign companies.
Start learning Chinese people...
They manufacture their own stuff, just not research and developed in their own country. They do but just not the Headquarters doing all the cutting edge researches. It's getting there though.
The money is in digital downloads just like music.
Even in the U.S., most households still don't have the bandwidth to handle HD content download, not to mention China. I think HD contents on physical medium is still viable for some time to come.
seriously, i cant even stream Hulu (lowest quality setting) over my DSL without it stuttering (well, except for commercials, which never stutter). It's sad, and now Korea is getting 1gbps lines?? ive died a little inside today :(
Well China definitely have a big enough population for this to be successful without it ever leaving their borders. Also some of the gadgets you guys label as "crapgadget" is actually very hot. I'm still thinking about that black iPhone look-a-like which appears to be a crap load better (no pun intended).
China will discover what Japan learned in the eighties, to get successful support for formats you need studio support, but would Chinese companies be allowed to buy into American studios like Sony etc. did ?
Well I won't be rushing out to buy a HD NHD player as I try to boycott Chinese companies as much as possible, like Lenovo (as they are mainly owned by the Chinese Government).
Yes I do realize that I have many products that are made in China though.
After watching a couple of mins of the following you may understand why.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_8Ko-9uKRs
Wow, your video looks yummy. Go ahead to boycott your Chinese Products and step aside from any gadgets. It's freaking PETA man. Of course they are showing the nastiest video to the world. Even in US you get those farms killing pigs, cows, chickens in very inhumane way. Are you still using Google? It's American product.
I don't want to flame you but, are you dumb?.
Chinese government is the same shit that USA government just with different color (red vs blue *sic*).
Animal cruelty in China? Yes, also in USA (Sarah Palin for example). And, AFAIK fur coats are not banned in both countries, in fact fur is a luxurious business.
In my case i don't want products developer in China ONLY because the quality, China is a powerful country but still i fell that they don't spend too much in s&r, and the most work is just stealing and reverse-engineer some works. Even Korea is way over China in this aspect.
Magallanes,
How long have China been starting to climb up and develop their own technology since the communist took over in 1960s? Korea has started to develop technology right after the cold war. Logically they have already been head started decades ahead of China. Don't forget South Korea is a lot smaller than China in terms of population and sovereignty.
China has 1.3 billions of people and it has to develop from basically a ghetto to now with cutting edge modernized cities such as Shanghai and Beijing. I haven't even mentioned there are many parts of China that are also being heavily developed in extremely fast paste.
In terms of technology, we can clearly see that China is following Taiwan, Japanese and Korean's footsteps with many twists. They start to develop their own products and at the same time people are trying to copy other famous products just to get a piece from the money pool. Pirating, copying, reverse engineering, trying to develop their own formats are evidences of a developing country approaching to a super technological power driven country. Don't forget China is the 3rd country in the world that has sent people into space.
For those of you who don't know much about the history of China, it has always been invaded by foreigners through out history. That's the main reason why the Great Wall was built to prevent the invasion from Mongolians, Opium War from the West, and World War II from Japan. It has also encountered numerous civil wars. Today, again, there are all kinds of companies around the world trying to get profits from China. It is a right way for Chinese to be independent from the world and start to develop things that can lead the world.
Even though I think HD-NVD won't be a leading technology at all, we will soon see a lot more interesting things being researched and developed in China.
Screw the hardware format wars, in a few years High-def will be digital and everyone will be storing their movies on a Solid State Drives. I'd rather there be technological breakthroughs with file compression so we can stream 1080p video over the wireless band with satisfying results.
Well, any format without consumer-level recorders is a dud, IMO.
Call me when the recorders are released so I can use something half-decent (and far cheaper than Blu-Ray) as removable storage on my PC. I couldn't care less what format and what players are released and what studio is supporting what.
I want (reliable) removable storage to keep advancing, and I want to be able to pick up blanks in my local store. Once that happens I'll know something is worth buying. Until then? Dead duck, 100%.
They'll still be pirated in on Chinese streets for $1 before the movies come out in theaters...
Most of the Chinese movies are released officially in DVD format in China first before putting them in theaters in Hong Kong and the rest of Asia.