New "Meet Pre" video demonstrates new functionality, incredible calming effect
By Paul Miller 
posted February 15th 2009 10:09AM
posted February 15th 2009 10:09AM
posted February 15th 2009 10:09AM
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I'm so getting one...
If it's under $399. (W/O contract of course.)
That was a boring video, come on. No one is going to buy this thing for the calendar. Show me how it plays music and video and maybe even a game or two and I might consider it.
Apple now has 20,000 apps on their store. PALM is going to have to do A LOT better than this.
I guess the psychological-pricing thing with something-something-99$ or 99 cents has got the buyers too :)
If it's 400$ I guess it'll have one less customer.
$400 +50 for contract. That sounds like a lot of money.
Can they compete against Apple with that price?
@ Sea Urchin
to my knowledge no price has been set yet, but I assume they would want to compete so it will be something like $150-250 on contract maybe $400-500 off contract.
@ Paul
It already has one feature that means it beats the iPhone in my book - Multitasking!!!
@ Paul
It was about as interesting as a UI demo can be, and yes lots of people will buy it for the calendar, the type of people who actually use their phone as an organizer rather than as a toy.
And as for the 20,000 apps, you do realise 95% of them are crap and/or duplicate the functionality of countless other apps on the app store.
@Gnormie
Oh, yeah, multi-tasking. Ask someone on the street about multi-tasking and you will get a blank stare. The iPhone has multi-tasking, for the native apps. Apple just won't allow it for third party apps because it kills battery life. Doesn't Android have multi-tasking and what's the number 1 complaint about the G1? Oh, yeah, battery life.
@ Paul
I mean TRUE multitasking, not effectively switching the app off and presenting you with a captured jpeg of it. And multitasking killing battery life on the G1 may have something to do with the fact the G1 doesn't have much of a battery life anyway - due the low rated battery.
@Phil Perman, who said: "And as for the 20,000 apps, you do realise 95% of them are crap and/or duplicate the functionality of countless other apps on the app store."
Dude, who cares? 95 percent of apps on Windows are shareware pieces of crap, doesn't stop people from declaring that Windows is better because it has more apps.
And the majority of people who like Windows, will tell you that they like Windows because of games and the Pre isn't going to be able to handle games and for that reason alone, people are going to have a problem with it.
@Gnormie
Dude, I don't know if you know this, but the iPhone runs OS X and OS X has lots of multi-tasking.
It's called the "Activity Monitor," sorta like the Task Manager in Windows. Apple could turn multi-tasking on in the iPhone anytime they get ready.
> It was about as interesting as a UI demo can be...
In actual fact, that's all ANY of the Pre demos to date have been - UI demos.
Has anyone seen "calendar view" with conflicting calendar entries from Facebook and Google simultaneously?
Has anyone seen someone change a Facebook calendar AFTER the Facebook calendar entries are displayed on the Pre and seen the changes reflected on the Pre?
The UI is nice.
What else is there?
But Paul, even if Apple have the ability to include full, true multitasking in the iPhone, that doesn't mean they have!
And maybe the competition from the Pre will encourage them to... that's a good thing, surely?
@Paul
The iPhone runs a MOBILE version of OSX, your 'activity monitor' means nothing and you know why? Because a desktop/laptop and a phone are DIFFERENT, there is a difference between the 2GHZ Core 2 Duo in your box, and the 600mhz -ish processor in your iPhone. Apple cannot 'turn multitasking on when they're ready', they can't because Mobile OSX is a resource hog compared to other mobile OSes because the best way to build an OS for a mobile device is to build from the ground up not dumb down an existing product because it's just wasteful of resources and means you can't do things like multitasking on your mobile device.
Yah Paul, because NO ONE uses these devices to work. Typical Apple user. All flash, or not, and zero substance.
Dear Paul
If they can just turn on multitasking any time, why can't Safari keep a tabbed page open? Why does it have to refresh every time you hit the back button? Why can't it keep more than two screens worth of a page rendered at a time? Why is it that every time I open the native Notes app that it has to completely open itself from a closed position, which takes an annoying 4 or 5 seconds? True multitasking is different than what the iPhone does. iPhone supports multitasking for the few things that it HAS to in order to function. For instance, it would suck pretty badly if you had to turn the music player off to browse the internet. It's OK to defend your favorite device, but not when you spew out crap to do so.
The Pre has everything going for it that the iPhone does, only more. Of course it doesn't have an app store open with thousands of [mostly crappy] apps, the device hasn't launched yet! Did you forget that Apple had the iPhone out for a good YEAR before their app store launched? You are holding double standards, but I don't hold it against you, because that's what fanboys do.
And who said the thing can't play games? I'd like a link.
Finally, if you really think the calendar is the only thing they are pushing the phone for, you are a complete idiot. Yes, that seems to be the main focus of this video, but guess what? It's one damn video. Have you seen the web browser on this thing? Kills Safari. Renders the whole page, no checkerboards involved. You're right, nobody is going to buy a phone just because it has a nice calendar. Good thing this phone has way more than a nice calendar.
Thanks for the screenshot Paul. Can you tell me how to get to that application on an iPhone and how to develop a third party application that can run in the background ?
Perhaps you could list the reasons why you think Palm won't be able to foster a community of developers. Considering that there are probably more applications still available for Palm OS than exist in Apple's App Store I'd be interested to know why they won't be able to encourage developers to do the same for Web OS.
I hate to be the one to let facts get in the way of a good argument but I'd appreciate a few more from you.
Ok, this Paul guy has to be putting on an act.
No one could possibly be this much in the back pocket of a corporation to frek out everytime a product, not from his favorite corporation, is discussed.
Someone please explain this to me. If everyone is so interested in using the Pre "for work," then why wouldn't they get a Blackberry instead? What makes the Pre so much more special than something like the Blackberry, that is accepted in the business world. Even Barack Obama uses a Blackberry.
So don't give me that BS. People aren't slobbering over the Pre because they think of it as a business phone. People are slobbering over the Pre because they think it will have features like the iPhone and the iPhone is a great multi-media device. If they're going to beat Apple, they're going to have beat Apple on the multi-media front.
And everyone forgets, the App Store has a load of organizers and calendars and to-do lists, everything from basic to advanced. The iPhone has OminFocus, iCal, MobileMe, Exchange, a lot more than the Pre will be able to provide. So the PALM people are really doing themselves a disservice by competing on that front.
It just won't work with most consumers.
@Gnormie, who said: "Apple cannot 'turn multitasking on when they're ready'"
Gnormie, you keep pulling facts straight out of your butt. Anyone with a jailbroken iPhone will tell you that the iPhone can multi-task, but they will also admit that it kills battery life.
@ Paul
I don't think you read that link did you? All it said was apps could then take advantage of all the resources the iPhone has to offer so multitasking is possible, it doesn't refer to any apps or talk about battery life.
And OK, even if I am wrong and the iPhone can potentially multitask (see some of us are willing to admit we're wrong sometimes...), potential and what is currently available is different and potential on one device shouldn't be compared to what is currently available on another device.
@Paul
INTERFACE! If someone just wants a phone for sending email, that doesn't render emails properly- then go with a blackberry. They have very nice compatibility with most email servers and are a cinch to set up. However, the Pre is the next step of the PDA. As you can see from the video, Palm is trying to stress the importance of not only an easy to use email function, but also the integration of the calendar app with the weather (cool feature btw, can tell you whether or not you want to be outside with any of your appointments).
Also, who died and made you head of all consumers? You're really assuming a lot. Keep in mind that NOBODY has played with this thing, other than some demos. Once some units come out in store and more people get their hands on it, then we can see whether consumers like it.
And the calendar? The last time I checked, you couldn't even update events directly on the iPhone. You had to change things on your computer and then sync the phone. And Facebook sync? NOT.
Finally, 75 fart apps in the Apple app store. Just saying.
Paul, you just said it yourself, people are slobbering over the Pre, and it's because, as well as having awesome internet browsing, maps, media, etc etc etc, just like the iPhone, it can do all this other cool stuff, like multitasking and effective management of multiple contact and calendar sources. And people want it more than a Blackberry for the same reason they want it more than the iPhone - it's better!
You're arguing that maybe the Pre won't have as good a media player as the iPhone (and granted, we haven't seen much of it), then arguing against the fact that the Pre's native calendar is better than the iPhone's because you can download third party calendar apps for the iPhone... If the Pre's media player really does turn out to suck (which I doubt, but anyway...), what's to stop a third party developer for making a better one, just like they did for the iPhone's calendar?
I'm actually not too bothered about the media player, just because I generally like to carry round more than 8GB worth of music. In fact, I like to carry around more than the iPhone's 16GB. So if I get a Pre, which I probably will, I'll probably still use my 80GB iPod Classic for music, just like I do at the moment in conjunction with my current phone (an ancient and dying Sony Ericsson k750i).
That's not to say that I don't think the Pre's media player will be good, or that I don't think it will be adequate for many users.
I completely agree with Gnormie.
Ever since the beginning of jailbreaking an iPhone, there have been free apps to duplicate lost functionality (ie: multitasking, themes, video recording). However, that never has translated to apple doing anything.
If anything, the people who write the jailbreaking functionality are more innovative than Apple.
@ Paul
Don't be such a idiot. I have an iPhone and anyone who does knows that 99.99% of the apps in the App Store are total CRAP. Games? Who gives a flying f....??? Definitely not the business oriented person who needs hmmm let's see here...reliable push email. I am not keen on sliding phones but Palm has done quite well with the Pre. I love my iPhone but let's be real here uh? The iPhone is flashy and has a lot of "wow" factor to it so it sells. But stand it up against many other phones on the market via features and it falls flat.
@Gnormie
Well, you're missing the point again.
The iPhone multi-tasks, this fact has already been established. Apple allows multi-tasking of THEIR NATIVE APPS. They don't allow it for third party apps, but a jail broken phone can multi-task with third party apps. They don't "potentially" multi-task, like you said, they MULTI-TASK.
YOU SAID that the iPhone was incapable of multi-tasking AT ALL. You implied it was IMPOSSIBLE. So you are a moron.
No. Gnormie already stated that he was wrong. On one point. You, sir, are incapable of admitting you are wrong on anything.
@Paul
No Paul people are interested in the Pre because has a feature rich UI. I don't know what you mean by "competing in multimedia" becasue we know you can use the amazon music store, we know it can play videos, we know can play at least non-graphic intensive games(with a keyboard) and we know streaming anything will be a cinch on sprint's network.
The reason why the iphone is so popular is mainly because UI allows you to things pretty easily but right now the Pre just looks better. The Pre will probably never be as main stream as the iphone but that is okay. This phone is for informed buyers that want a good mobile experience without cutting corners and without brick walls. Good example of this is apple is litigating to not make jailbreaking legal but the Pre allows you to intall apps without their app store.
No one is saying the iphone isn't good but seriously people don't use smart phones mainly for multimedia which is why there is such a big following for this phone.
@ Paul
I admitted I was wrong already... seriously...
And please get this idea in your head the iPhone un-jailbroken doesn't TRULY multitask, it does in a sense in that it snaps pictures of apps and allows you to choose but it doesn't keep those apps running, true multitasking is keeping all those apps running in the background so you can switch instantly with no time taken to switch resources and right now the iPhone just doesn't do that even with native apps.
Gnormie,
If the best option is to build a mobile OS from the ground up, why is everybody basing their new OSes on Linux? Also, OS X is BSD. It will not be a simple switch to enable multitasking, but once processors are up to the task outside of running a browser, it will be deployed. I’m pretty sure the development team has a timeline for various features.
I was certainly hoping for more from the demo. Competition is good.
the animation from the Palm Pre™ looks like iPhone !
I'm a technological amateur, is this the same company or another Firm ?
★★★☆ ☆
@ Nicholas
Basing something on 'linux' isn't really precise enough, you've got 10,000's of distro's and when mobile companies say they are basing something on linux they don't mean they are taking a currently existing distro and editing it, they mean they are basing it on the Linux kernel which is effectively building something from the ground up.
@Nicholas:
The reason people are building on Linux for mobility is because Linux refers only to the base kernel, which is very small. It's not like trying to run Ubuntu with a few things removed, the UI is a completely different build on top of the Linux kernel. To be honest, I'm not really sure what's been added by Apple into the kernel for their BSD based Mac OSX, but since the iPhone runs OSX, not BSD, I assume there was something.
As a side note, my Linux-based Nokia N800 is capable of multitasking with just a 400Mhz processor. Oddly enough so were Windows and Mac, if I'm not mistaken.
Isn't every "application" on the Pre (at least, those by folks external to Palm) nothing more than a thread in a browser ala a tab on, say, Firefox?
Why could the iPhone NOT do that?
Tada - "multitasking!"
@ Paul A. Chapel you either work for Apple you have never used a phone where your needs are beyond a lame app store, MP3 player and the phone doesn't include true multitasking integrated with smoother OS and interface than the iPhone. I had an iPhone and I returned it three days later. The iPhone is a great phone for the masses that want an iPod/Phone, but it is NOT a 'smart' phone in any sense. You have to close an app on the iphone and then switch to another app. I can leave 10 apps open while doing other items and have instant notifications pop up without closing an app to read them. Can you iPhone do that? Not.
Besides, webOS and linux will make this phone very easy to write code/appz for since it is based off of common language most web developers already know. Hence why Palm has announced they are dropping their main software in will be webOS only.
@ Paul Chapel, the 'people' are already forming their own PreDevTeam's: http://predevcamp.org/
So don't worry, Pre will have plenty of useful appz that'll run circles around your iDud.
@Paul: I can't believe that you are arguing that the iPhone is great based on the fact that Apple have gimped their OS to restrict multitasking.
Who cares if jailbroken apps can multitask? Who cares if Apple's built-in apps can multitask? What matters is that I can install an app from the AppStore (remember you were the one that brought up the AppStore) and take advantage of multitasking. I shouldn't have to void my warranty just to multitask.
The Pre won't have these limitations and no other real smartphone OS has these limitations so why is the iPhone better because it restricts what you can do on your phone?
It's great that you can play music on your iPhone - good for you. But please don't tell people that they don't need decent calendar or email functionality just because the iPhone lacks them.
@Paul
Wow Paul, I like the iPhone and all, but... you're making iPhone fans look like total tools. Please stop while you're way behind. You do not represent iPhone users - not that I am one - many of whom are actually well-informed.
damnit engadget can't you ban paul already?
Zunavio...I hope for your sake you didn't tick the "E-Mail me when someone replies..." box.
Y'all postin' in a troll thread.
i dont even read paul chapel's post anymore. i just automatically low rank them. mmm i whish someone would write a script for that. when will the engadget people step in and stop this annoying troll ?????
Stop feeding the troll!
Seriously, I say we start ignoring paul completely - see his comment, low rank, move on to the next one. Done.
Paul, to answer your question of why is everyone drooling over the phone: I'm not drooling over it, but I would consider it because it's pretty much a phone that rivals the quality of the iPhone, which I and many others have right now, with the addition of a tactile keyboard, faster accelerometer response, [faster processor/memory? link anyone?], and a better internet browser. I'll admit that the iPhone's multimedia is pretty good. I really like having a full screen album art whenever I listen to music. That's something I don't like about digital music - you miss out on the art - so I really like that feature. But, if it plays music and has a 3.5mm port, it plays music.
I use my iPhone for the internet browser mostly. Mobile Safari works great when it's not crashing, and when it actually sends my comments to Engadget and Joystiq (sometimes I'll send a comment and it will get lost in the internet.. often actually... anyone else?), but this Webkit browser looks potentially better, rendering the whole web page at once. Also, after over a year of defending the iPhone's virtual keyboard, I'm starting to get really tired of hitting the enter button instead of the space button.
If an unlocked Pre isn't my next phone, I'll be keeping my eye out for those Tegra devices, as well as that other sweet all-in-one chip with a sweet name, and still looking at Android.
Why do people still talk to paul? seriously?
You can tell that he is a complete dumbass douchebag by reading one of his comments. Just one.
So please, for everyone's sakes, just ignore the idiot apple troll, so he doesn't get what he wants.. more attention from everyone..
I haven't been in the comments for about a month or so now, and that kid is saying the exact same crap he's been saying for months.
Please.. everyone just ignore him. PLEASE
I'd hate to feed the troll here, but I'd like to point something out. When someone rabidly defends something with nothing to gain (e.g. touting the superiority of their device of choice over yours), that's usually a sign that they're not trying to convince you, but convince themselves. People are more often close-minded by choice than for any other reason. For the troll, here's an example of how a rational, open-minded person would justify their choice:
I've never used an iPhone myself, but it looks like a good phone for what it does. I considered getting one, but I wanted something with more flexibility (also I could get a much better plan for Sprint than AT&T thru my workplace, so that had a lot to do with my decision as well), so I went with a Touch Pro. I know a lot of people hate Windows Mobile for various reasons, but it works, and it works well, and it does everything I need. I know there are better phones available, but I'm really happy with my Touch Pro. The Pre though...seems sweet. Seeing some of the really cool stuff coming to market now, such as this and the Omnia HD, among others, by the time I'm ready for a new phone I'm going to have a hell of a time choosing since there are going to be so many good options available. I'm glad Apple helped the smartphone market expand to the average user as it did, since I really think that was the catalyst for some of the major changes these manufacturers and developers have put into their devices, but until they open up their platform some more and increase it's overall functionality to be as productive as it is intuitive and entertaining, I doubt I'd go with an Apple phone.
Plus, I'd be a little ashamed to be seen walking around with the phone that is associated with the ravenous flock of people like Paul.
I am an iPhone advocate and think that the iPhone is the best phone right now in the market. But this is definitely nicer hands down at least from what I saw in that video. Finally some real competition all the previous half ass attempts were just a plain waste of time.
This video isn't much different than the Nuvifone. Anyone remember that? Garmin had an impressive video for that phone, a lot more impressive than this Pre ad and it went nowhere.
PALM needs to release a date for the Pre or people are just going to move on to the next big thing, which will probably be the next iPhone in June.
Really looking forward to real-world reviews of this thing. It's got the flash that people like about the iPhone but it can actually multitask like a real smartphone and it's got a proper keyboard. Sounds like the best of many worlds so I hope it stacks up. My first Palm saved my ADHD ass when I was finishing college, doing video shoots, working, and freelancing. This looks like an evolution of calendar and time management.
I noticed Paul iFanboy mentioning how he doesn't care about that boring productivity stuff but rather music and games. I think that is the difference between markets. I want a device that helps me manage my time and information and is also able to stream my music and offer a little casual gaming for when I'm stuck someplace. My primary needs aren't Gameboy/mp3 player but rather PDA/phone/browser/GPS/email. The multimedia stuff is nice but I don't need a 32gb storage drive or 3d games if I have the other stuff.
Even the limited gaming capability of my Touch Pro is fine for the occasional word puzzle or accelerometer game and I stream Shoutcast, Pandora, and my home collection via Orb so I don't need massive storage. This looks to continue the things I like about Palm and WM but with a much more modern interface and newer hardware.
@neodorian
You know what you sound like? A Mac user who is trying to justify the fact that OS X doesn't have many games. Isn't that ironic?
Dude, do you really think anyone buys a phone based on the fact that it has a great calendar? The iPhone has a great calendar and I have yet to see it in a commercial, but then again, the people that run Apple aren't morons when it comes to advertising. They know that sex sells. Music, video, internet, games, that stuff sells.
My only point is that PALM needs to stop trying to sell people on stupid features that most people don't care about.
@ Paul Chapel
Actually Mr. Paul...Looking upon the millions of Blackberry and WinMo purchasers I'd say they do.
The Blackberry was MADE in m ind for the business consumer, then when they tried to get in on the casual phoner...we get things like the adequate Pearl series (excluding the Flip) and the horrid Storm.
WinMo was made for the same thing with the Exchange/Sync stuff. These are POCKET PCS/SMARTPHONES for a reason.
You do make a point, as I will say everytime (because I'm noones fanboy, just an advent lover of tech) Apple is on its game. Apple and Nintendo are on to something that took them years to figure out. Its not that "sex" sells..."simplicity" sells. The best selling game system is the weakest, most simplest system out there. The most popular phone on the market...being toted as a "smartphone" (yeah, lets keep it in the smartphone category for now) is the poorest excuse for a smartphone BUT it does what Apple wanted it to. Have the "i" followers buy it...bring in a new slew with its simplistic UI and flashy colors. Apple knew what it was doing...still does. But as I have said before...with all these Apple fanboys, current company included, a POPULAR phone does not make it best, it just makes it liked. There are plenty of phones around that will destroy the iPhone in a competition of power anyday. But in simplicity I must admit there is none so far. Even the TouchFlo3D is not simplistic enough for one to just pick up and go out on it. Because underneath it it is still WinMo confusing software.