We're not quite sure if you're seeing what's happening here, but Apple and RIM are working themselves right into the time-out corner. We already heard
earlier today that Palm would be joining Adobe's Open Screen Project -- which, by the way, guarantees Flash 10 support on the
Pre -- and now we're told that Nokia is following suit. What it all boils down to is this: Google, Microsoft, Palm, and Nokia are all expected to release platforms or handsets in the coming year or two which will support Flash 10, all while Apple's iPhone attempts to limp by with... YouTube support. Granted, we
have heard that the suits at Cupertino are
in talks to make it happen, but we've yet to hear as much at MWC. Also of note, it seems that a similar deal including RIM is also pretty far off, so BlackBerry users should probably order their daily dose of patience as well.
[Via
Macworld]
posted Feb 16th 2009 4:54PM
the more the better i guess!
The more flash ADs, the better I guess!
Not!!!!
Nokia have had flash on their devices for ages...
But now they are joining a standard platform for distributing flash content whether it is video or flash based software.
WinMo has flash support also through various addons you can get for free. If it was built in natively it would make it much easier.
Flash lite aka dumbed down flash, not the real deal Flash 10.
Nokia has been with the Open Screen Project from the beginning (announced May 1st, 2008), as have ARM, Chunghwa Telecom, Cisco, Intel, LG, Marvell, Motorola, NTT DoCoMo, Qualcomm, Samsung, Sony Ericsson, Toshiba and Verizon.
The news this time was just that Adobe and Nokia set up a $10 million fund for the Project to support application and service development.
I for one would like to thank Adobe/Apple from keeping craptastic Flash-based websites off my iPhone.
Don't need 'em. Don't want 'em. Flash has become a scourge to the Web.
RIM gets an F
C'mon Apple....Get it done.
Lol. The mighty iPhone can't handle Flash :P
iLowRanked
Apple's problem is that if the standard is adopted by them, then tons of flash based software can be designed to work on the iPhone without Apple meddling in the software approval.
Apple is not a supporter of open source and open standards for software on their device. They want complete control.
Luckily the other OS's are open to this. And I know RIM is late, but I don't think they'll exclude themselves. I think RIM still considers itself as a purely business phone and thinks of flash as a non-business oriented development platform. Just look at the Bold and Storm. It's touted for having multimedia playback, but every review doesn't considered the media playback that great.
Well Apple can't monopolize everything can it?
I 100% support domestic products, but I strongly dislike monopolies.
You people seem knowledgeable. Would someone explain to me why flash is so bad for the internet and internet enabled devices?
I always thought little flash plugs on a website were a useful tool for displaying dynamic information. How is it a "scourge to the web"?
@Mike
Because Quix is an annoying iFanboy. The iPhone doesn't support flash, therefore, flash = bad.
It's same arguement that they use when it comes to copy/paste, MMS, or a removable battery; If the iPhone doesn't have it, then it must be a useless feature.
This is stupid. I'm sure flash will also be on the iphone - apple haven't announced it at MWC because they have nothing to do with that show.
All you people calling apple the monopoly (seriously?) or saying that they don't support open-source (Apple has WebKit. Flash is the most anti-open source monopolistic system there has ever been) are just idiots.
apple will never do it because then no one would need to buy their apps, which are basically iphone app versions of previously existing flash stuff on the web.
I cant wait...
How about you develop flash for 64bit browsers first Adobe.
They did that already: http://labs.adobe.com/downloads/flashplayer10.html (took them long enough, though)
It's still marked alpha, but I've been using it for months, and it seems fine. Indeed my distro of choice (Arch Linux) already has it in the stable repos.
Yep, I've been using the 64-bit plug-in for some time now without serious issue. There's still a minor annoying bug with the sound, but it's very rare.
No windows support yet... We're still waiting Adobe.
Apple isn't a mobile phone company - they provide integrated software and hardware to their customers with a consistent user experience. What a lot of their customers like, the way everything is elegantly designed and packaged, doesn't lend itself to fast changes. They can't just say "yeah, we'll do that" without carefully investigating the impact it will have on both their hardware and software.
Personally I prefer flexibility over elegance, which is one reason why I'm not an Apple guy. But that's just me.
I'm sure that's exactly what got in the way of copy/paste implementation
Good way to put it Forrest.
I also think Apple wants more control through the use of its App Store. A flash based support would allow users to get tons of potential content outside of the App Store. Also, the platform would allow software to work on multiple devices regardless of OS.
This entire effort amounts to a workaround that panders to Flash-based sites and perpetuates poor design practices. The last thing anyone should be doing is accommodating these unprofessional, irritating, and cumbersome designs.
Where have you been living for the past 3 or 4 years? Flash as a "website platform" has been steadily declining, as people realize that fast and light sites are what "sells". Not to mention the growing ability of javascript to do what used to be done by Flash. However, what has been proliferating, thanks to youtube and the likes, is flash video. Flash video is actually very good - good compression, great quality (h264), easy streaming, and in general more flexibility than either windows media and quicktime. That's why you want flash support on your devices.
On top of that, flash based software is much easier to developer and make cross platform available.
Cross platform alone sells flash not to talk of other incentives
Where have YOU been living? Total reliance on Flash is a huge problem for a vast number of Web sites in particular industries, notably restaurants, hotels, and even some stores like Home Depot (their tool-rental department is unusable without Flash). That reliance renders the sites useless to many people using mobile devices. And who's using mobile devices? People out of their homes and on the road, trying to get to your HOTEL, RESTAURANT, or STORE.
Enterprises that aren't traditionally tech-savvy seem to be easily impressed with the cheeseball effects that are the hallmark of Flash sites, so they award Web-design contracts to noobs who deliver unusable, animation-saddled Flash sites that looked great in a conference-room demo but suck in use.
@Information Central
You give an example of Home Depot's flash tool-rental department, but then say people use their phones to get to hotels, restaurant or stores, make you mind up what you want to complain about! I doubt very much flash interferes finding out where your nearest store is. I can't really see a market in wanting to hire a welder by surfing the web on your phone...
Denial, it ain't just a river in Egypt.
lol. Just when I thought I found a thread to comment and ask my question, I read further down to find the real discussion.
Repost: "You people seem knowledgeable. Would someone explain to me why flash is so bad for the internet and internet enabled devices?
I always thought little flash plugs on a website were a useful tool for displaying dynamic information. How is it a "scourge to the web"?"
And then there is the point about flash video. I see nothing wrong with flash.
@Mike10010100: ...and something not really alluded to that I see here is that the idea of some web standards is the ability for the device rendering it to be able to potentially reformat the information to be somewhat more suited to the screen it's displayed on. Flash tends to be much more rigid, telling the device only "Make a box this big then draw stuff in it exactly as I tell you." There's absolutely zero room for user-end adaptability.
But really, this is sort of a non-point in my view. Other web standards and poorly designed pages in all languages can be the same way. This is part of why there's such a push now for "true web" hand held browsers. People are sort of saying, "All right, screw smart web standards. Let's just make full blown browsers with some smart page navigation features so it doesn't matter any more. Throw out all the ancient HTML-only browsers."
(Apparently my first reply got vanished...)
"That reliance renders the sites useless to many people using mobile devices."
So then there's two solutions: 1) Don't use Flash. 2) Build out the Adobe engine to even more platforms, extended the cross platform appeal to those on the road.
We can't stop page authors from making poor design choices on occasion, so Adobe's taking a crack at the second one. Let um have at it, I say.
"You give an example of Home Depot's flash tool-rental department, but then say people use their phones to get to hotels, restaurant or stores"
Because Home Depot isn't a store?
Spare us.
"With YouTube support..." unless the YouTube video is embedded in a web page, at which point you're out of luck again. At least *I* am, along with anybody else that owns an iPhone.
"Also of note, it seems that a similar deal including RIM is also pretty far off, so BlackBerry users should probably order their daily dose of patience as well."
Seriously? That sucks. I just bought a BlackBerry Bold and am really liking it. I was hoping that my next upgrade would include Flash...
When has Apple ever announced anything at a Trade Show like this? The Closest Apple gets to Trade Shows is Mac World, and they are quitting that next year. No one should be surprised that Apple didn't announce this at a slum show in Spain. The iPhone will get flash, but on Apples good time.
Slum show? Its not in some back alley with 2 Chinese knock off manufactures. Its the worlds largest mobile phone exhibition, but then again its not in America so i suppose it probably is pointless. But having it in America would also be pointless because their are tonnes of mobile phone manufactures coming from their isn't there?
Yeah, lets wet for the iPhone to play catch up because its apple and its cool to be really really unfashionably late.
@Dallas
Tell me, are you normally this fucking stupid or just making a special effort today?
Slum show? Jesus.
Knowing Apple, what they're working on with Adobe is probably something for the rumored multicore iPhones. So, probably better than the open source version the others are jumping on.
What's better, symbian or OS X?
Symbian by a mile as it supports multitasking.
Flash breaks many human factors guidelines and is pretty a skin on an OS. As the excellent Bloomberg and USA Today iPhone apps highlight, a robust, fluid, snappy and very flexible graphical OS is a lot more credible. Tight integration with the hardware is vital. Either way, if Apple keep improving the iPhone - and therefore sell enough units, people will write custom apps/sites/presentations for it, with no need for Flash.
So you'd want a iPhone app for every website you want to visit, i'd rather much have a browser that manages to do it all, like perhaps the one we are using right now?
Or to translate.. Steve sez I don;t need flash, so everyone who wants flash is a poopy head.
Flash is a crutch of those who refuse to educate themselves on more open, standards-based means of achieving the same effects. Menus, rollovers, transitions... come on, people. You don't need Flash for those.
Not to mention the asinine, interminable "Loading...." messages at every page turn. Annoying music...
Pandering to Flash will do more to hold Web development back than to advance it.
What? 29 comments and still no Flashpoint?
I'll sub in for him.
"Flash is a stupid feature for stupid people. I don't need Flash and no one else needs Flash for any reason anytime.
But if Apple does do Flash on the iPhone, then EVERYONE ELSE COPIED FROM APPLE BECAUSE NO ONE CAN MATCH APPLE!!"
There, how was that?
Jacob,
That is pretty much every single Apple fanboy in this thread, in general.
"Apple hateboys detected!"