To tell the truth, if Win Mo offered instant ommunication to Xbox Live and could naturally view Flash and Java images on webpages - such as Youtube (without a special client), Pornotube, HULU, VEOH and use Limewire... I'd ditch my iPhone and get this instead.
Find me ANY mention of apple in this entire article. It's clear the author went out of his way to avoid any such comparisons and STILL Apple fans still see a need to defend it from big ole' nasty Engadget.
Seriously, Apple fans....me thinks thou dost protest too much.
"Oh c'mon... As much as I don't like Apple, this article isn't biased towards Apple."
It reads as the predicted hit piece that everyone and their grandmother knew Engadget had ready to go last week, critical of WM in many areas that the iPhone (perfection as seen by some on Engadget) also has trouble in, and is predictably ignored as a minus when it's brought up...If it's ever brought up.
The article doesn't even mention Apple or the iPhone - not even once. There's no obvious bias, but it is obvious that WinMo6.5 is way behind the iPhone's OS, Palm's webOS or Android, when it comes to offering an attractive and easy-to-use touch interface.
I'm all for pointing out bias, but this certainly doesn't seem to be the case. I generally hate Apple with a fiery burning passion (similar to when I pee), but this totally doesn't apply here.
Im pretty sure he was saying that engadget was biased towards apple and that he was in fact not an apple fan. So I think tho dost protest too much. Seriously this apple hating has got to stop, people keep saying there are so many article that are apple related, and yet i struggle to find more than 1 in 10 article skewed towards, or even about apple products.
I have to agree this doesn't really seem biased. It does appear to be VERY premature in its points. But for what they showed so far I have to agree. (I love windows mobile, but I'm happy to say my next phone will probably be Android based).
Well...I partially agree with Engadget here. We are still looking at a pre-beta (may be pre-alpha version) of WinMo 6.5 and may be they add some of these features when they come out with the final version. But yeah...IE, Media Player and UI too look like a decade old. I dont know why MS needs to shell out 6.5 when 7 is on its way (don't know when though). They should go on the lines of Windows 7 and rightly said 'learn from their mistakes'.
I will agree with you too Alan...Engadget would never even in its dreams blast apple like this when there so many features to add, improve and change in the iphone as well, which would make it the perfect device. This is why I go to CNET as well...when they list some product's short-comings, they also list their advantages (or nice/unique features). Yeah, CNET is biased too but they look at both sides of the coin.
I think the real point to make about WinMo is not who makes it, but that its UI is becoming less and less relevant. Since it is Microsoft, there will be consumers who insist on it and device manufacturers that cannot ignore it. However, when you look at some of the newer WinMo phones, if it weren't for that flag (Start button), you might not even know what OS is being used. For some -- myself included -- that is not a bad thing.
I agree with you. One of the strengths of Windows Mobile is ease with which you can change the interface. That many of these interfaces no longer make the old interface visible is probably something Microsoft recognizes, hence the insistence now that devices running Windows have a Windows key. So that despite the varied UIs the underpinning OS is the same. That is where they need the most work though.
While I agree this update isn't really too exciting, I can't help but think when Apple releases 2.2.2 it won't get this kind of treatment. Some of these reasons are just quite lame. You think we'll ever see this?
Editorial: Ten reasons why iPhone OS 2.2.2 misses the mark
1: It's exactly the same as iPhone OS 2... er, 1.9 It's exactly the same as the last version the only thing added is blocking jailbreakers.
2: The interface improvements are still way behind the curve. The grid is just a glorified list.
3: The UI tweaks are mostly just skin deep, and third-parties can't go way deeper. You have a better idea? Too bad!
4: It doesn't support resistive touchscreens. Seriously, how am I supposed to type my Chinese characters on there? (Honestly I agree with Engadget on this one, it should support capacitive screens.)
5: It's not due out until "later this year." Word on the street in Cuperetino is It'll come out when it comes out.
6: You probably can't upgrade your phone if you've jailbroken it. Wan't to upgrade the firmware on any other mobile OS that you've modified without fear of bricking it? Fine.
7: No Zune integration. Not even a new Windows Media Player. Nothing here, I agree it sucks there's no Zune integration, but I seriously don't think that will come until WinMo 7.
8: Where's the keyboard? Not having an external keyboard is horrible. How do they even expect me to actually type without it? (but I agree Microsoft should have a universally accessable soft keyboard by now).
9: The browser still crashes all the time. Want to install one that doesn't? Too bad!
10: It doesn't innovate in any way. There's nothing different from 2.2.1. It offers nothing innovative. I mean innovation totally comes with a point change and not an actual revision right?
@Derbeste, seriously, what are you talking about? What Apple fans? There was no pro-Apple comment before you in the thread! Who are you thinking was defending Apple from Engadget?
@boxeeftw, thank you for your sane and rational comment. Don't get to see that many of 'em.
@insky, read the review that Engadget did on the iPhone. Actually read it. Properly. Then come back here and tell me that Engadget will not criticise the iPhone as you claim ... I think you will find you cannot. Their review was very harsh on many aspects of the iPhone, they criticised it for many reasons and on many bases, and since then they have also repeatedly stated their disappointment with the device, in many articles.
I know how popular the "Engadget is biased towards Apple" urban myth is, what I do not know is how it has managed to gain such traction despite their being absolutely no evidence for it. Literally. If you read what Engadget has said about the iPhone, it has been roughly 30% positive and 70% negative.
They have criticised it, they have slammed it, they have blasted it and they have made snide remarks about it. So WTF does Engadget have to do, before you guys realise that they are not in love with, fanatical about, or biased towards, the iPhone?
I think the only way to convince you, that Engadget is not biased towards the iPhone, is for them to have only ever criticised it, and never mentioned the things they do like about it. In other words, to be biased *against* the iPhone. Clear bias the other way - is that what you would regard as a lack of bias?
Seriously you guys? Engadget cannot flame Apple products because, let's face it, Microsoft just has more problems. Let me say this: I do not own a single Apple device other than a shuffle. I envy the iPhone because, compared to my Touch Diamond, it simply works better. The iPhone certainly has its faults but it utilizes an amazing UI and integrates well with thousands of applications. There are reasons why it has become one of the most sought after phones on the market.
The author may indeed be inadvertently be referring to some of Apple's innovations here but why shouldn't he? When one company innovates it is expected that others do the same or die in a consumer market. Be it beta or not Microsoft should be able to at least meet current consumer expectations when so many other companies are doing so.
Let's not bake the author because he is an intelligent consumer with a critical eye. If Microsoft, with all its capital and prowess, has problems with its products there is no reason people like Joshua should not point them out.
I love to see all the idiotic windows mobile fanboys who try to deflect the criticism from their favorite POS operating system by claiming "Pro Apple Bias".
This has NOTHING To do with the iPhone. Yes, the iPhone's OS is far superior to Windows mobile, but so is Android, Blackberry OS, and the many custom extensions and interfaces placed over the top of windows mobile.
To put it bluntly, Microsoft's latest attempt is pathetic and they continue to highly underwhelm everyone.
This effort is not that bad. Keep in mind this is Windows Mobile 6.5, not 7. Its not supposed to be a complete rewrite.
I agree that this article is not particularly biased toward Apple, but it is doesn't cut Microsoft any favors either. While it may not support multi touch or include Zune integration, it does have an App store, a newer, touch-friendlier interface (which is way better than 6.1 even if it is not as good as Android or the iPhone), a newer IE, and some other new features. If you were expecting a complete interface rewrite with a new kernel and such, your expectations were a little high for a .4 upgrade. Its like expecting Vista SP2 to make vista look exactly like Windows 7 and have a new kernel.
If someone criticizes Apple, the Mac geeks get their feathers ruffled. If they criticize Microsoft, fanboys come out of the woodwork. Guess there's just no way to win, Engadget.
I'm sick of how back and forth you commenters get whenever your favorite product gets criticized, and it's annoying. Face it, WinMo isn't the greatest thing ever, as much as I wish it was, and saying so doesn't make Engadget an Apple fanboy (even if they really are). Sure, WinMo isn't crap, but this is a market where we're all looking for the next big thing, the next technological leap forward, so it's pretty irritating to see Windows Mobile just inch along. We expect big things from Microsoft, and we're feeling pretty bummed that they're not happening.
It would seem to me that Engadget is not consumed by Apple but rather most of the posters on this blog. The article makes no mention of Apple.
It's a simple fact that in the mobile space they're lots of other choices that are (IMHO) better then WinMo. A number of which do not come from that fruit based company.
Just look at the gphone or the pre... hell if you want a winmob that works better look at what HTC is doing. No one wants to use the default install of WinMo because its not good enough anymore.
Should Engagdet not call to task a product that is not up to scratch??
The Cobra Tag may help you win that losing battle, acting as a Bluetooth device that attaches to your key ring and connects to your phone, it gives you the opportunity to find the missing item if it's less than 30 feet away.
The most commented posts on Engadget over the past 24 hours.
Now that we've thrown 'em off the trail, use the form below to get in touch with the people at Engadget. Please fill in all of the required fields because they're required.
This list may aswell have read.
1. It's not made by Apple.
2. It's not made by Apple.
3. It's no......
Damn, you beat me to it.
To tell the truth, if Win Mo offered instant ommunication to Xbox Live and could naturally view Flash and Java images on webpages - such as Youtube (without a special client), Pornotube, HULU, VEOH and use Limewire... I'd ditch my iPhone and get this instead.
i agree. as much as i love engadget, they worship all things apple. microsoft isnt the best thing in the world, but neither is apple...
Oh c'mon... As much as I don't like Apple, this article isn't biased towards Apple.
lol i had to double take when i read "pornotube" in your list. was taht really necessary? hahaha
You're an idiot.
Find me ANY mention of apple in this entire article. It's clear the author went out of his way to avoid any such comparisons and STILL Apple fans still see a need to defend it from big ole' nasty Engadget.
Seriously, Apple fans....me thinks thou dost protest too much.
I actually read this article as reasons to get an Android phone...
"Oh c'mon... As much as I don't like Apple, this article isn't biased towards Apple."
It reads as the predicted hit piece that everyone and their grandmother knew Engadget had ready to go last week, critical of WM in many areas that the iPhone (perfection as seen by some on Engadget) also has trouble in, and is predictably ignored as a minus when it's brought up...If it's ever brought up.
The article doesn't even mention Apple or the iPhone - not even once. There's no obvious bias, but it is obvious that WinMo6.5 is way behind the iPhone's OS, Palm's webOS or Android, when it comes to offering an attractive and easy-to-use touch interface.
I'm all for pointing out bias, but this certainly doesn't seem to be the case. I generally hate Apple with a fiery burning passion (similar to when I pee), but this totally doesn't apply here.
@ derbeste
Im pretty sure he was saying that engadget was biased towards apple and that he was in fact not an apple fan. So I think tho dost protest too much. Seriously this apple hating has got to stop, people keep saying there are so many article that are apple related, and yet i struggle to find more than 1 in 10 article skewed towards, or even about apple products.
I have to agree this doesn't really seem biased. It does appear to be VERY premature in its points. But for what they showed so far I have to agree. (I love windows mobile, but I'm happy to say my next phone will probably be Android based).
Well...I partially agree with Engadget here. We are still looking at a pre-beta (may be pre-alpha version) of WinMo 6.5 and may be they add some of these features when they come out with the final version. But yeah...IE, Media Player and UI too look like a decade old. I dont know why MS needs to shell out 6.5 when 7 is on its way (don't know when though). They should go on the lines of Windows 7 and rightly said 'learn from their mistakes'.
I will agree with you too Alan...Engadget would never even in its dreams blast apple like this when there so many features to add, improve and change in the iphone as well, which would make it the perfect device. This is why I go to CNET as well...when they list some product's short-comings, they also list their advantages (or nice/unique features). Yeah, CNET is biased too but they look at both sides of the coin.
I think the real point to make about WinMo is not who makes it, but that its UI is becoming less and less relevant. Since it is Microsoft, there will be consumers who insist on it and device manufacturers that cannot ignore it. However, when you look at some of the newer WinMo phones, if it weren't for that flag (Start button), you might not even know what OS is being used. For some -- myself included -- that is not a bad thing.
I agree with you. One of the strengths of Windows Mobile is ease with which you can change the interface. That many of these interfaces no longer make the old interface visible is probably something Microsoft recognizes, hence the insistence now that devices running Windows have a Windows key. So that despite the varied UIs the underpinning OS is the same. That is where they need the most work though.
Here's an idea for a future post.
10 reasons why nonsensical flame-bait postings are great for Engadget's traffic.
Have you actually read the article?
First of all, the summary specifically notes that they are the opinions of one man, and not everyone at Engadget agrees.
Secondly, his points are all valid.
Here we go again. When Engadget points out problems with Microsoft software, Lets blame it on Apple bias. Christ, this defence is getting weak.
The level of complaining by Winchumps is starting to reach legendary status.
No kidding.
While I agree this update isn't really too exciting, I can't help but think when Apple releases 2.2.2 it won't get this kind of treatment. Some of these reasons are just quite lame. You think we'll ever see this?
Editorial: Ten reasons why iPhone OS 2.2.2 misses the mark
1: It's exactly the same as iPhone OS 2... er, 1.9
It's exactly the same as the last version the only thing added is blocking jailbreakers.
2: The interface improvements are still way behind the curve.
The grid is just a glorified list.
3: The UI tweaks are mostly just skin deep, and third-parties can't go way deeper.
You have a better idea? Too bad!
4: It doesn't support resistive touchscreens.
Seriously, how am I supposed to type my Chinese characters on there? (Honestly I agree with Engadget on this one, it should support capacitive screens.)
5: It's not due out until "later this year."
Word on the street in Cuperetino is It'll come out when it comes out.
6: You probably can't upgrade your phone if you've jailbroken it.
Wan't to upgrade the firmware on any other mobile OS that you've modified without fear of bricking it? Fine.
7: No Zune integration. Not even a new Windows Media Player.
Nothing here, I agree it sucks there's no Zune integration, but I seriously don't think that will come until WinMo 7.
8: Where's the keyboard?
Not having an external keyboard is horrible. How do they even expect me to actually type without it? (but I agree Microsoft should have a universally accessable soft keyboard by now).
9: The browser still crashes all the time.
Want to install one that doesn't? Too bad!
10: It doesn't innovate in any way.
There's nothing different from 2.2.1. It offers nothing innovative. I mean innovation totally comes with a point change and not an actual revision right?
@Derbeste, seriously, what are you talking about? What Apple fans? There was no pro-Apple comment before you in the thread! Who are you thinking was defending Apple from Engadget?
@boxeeftw, thank you for your sane and rational comment. Don't get to see that many of 'em.
@insky, read the review that Engadget did on the iPhone. Actually read it. Properly. Then come back here and tell me that Engadget will not criticise the iPhone as you claim ... I think you will find you cannot. Their review was very harsh on many aspects of the iPhone, they criticised it for many reasons and on many bases, and since then they have also repeatedly stated their disappointment with the device, in many articles.
I know how popular the "Engadget is biased towards Apple" urban myth is, what I do not know is how it has managed to gain such traction despite their being absolutely no evidence for it. Literally. If you read what Engadget has said about the iPhone, it has been roughly 30% positive and 70% negative.
They have criticised it, they have slammed it, they have blasted it and they have made snide remarks about it. So WTF does Engadget have to do, before you guys realise that they are not in love with, fanatical about, or biased towards, the iPhone?
I think the only way to convince you, that Engadget is not biased towards the iPhone, is for them to have only ever criticised it, and never mentioned the things they do like about it. In other words, to be biased *against* the iPhone. Clear bias the other way - is that what you would regard as a lack of bias?
Seriously you guys? Engadget cannot flame Apple products because, let's face it, Microsoft just has more problems. Let me say this: I do not own a single Apple device other than a shuffle. I envy the iPhone because, compared to my Touch Diamond, it simply works better. The iPhone certainly has its faults but it utilizes an amazing UI and integrates well with thousands of applications. There are reasons why it has become one of the most sought after phones on the market.
The author may indeed be inadvertently be referring to some of Apple's innovations here but why shouldn't he? When one company innovates it is expected that others do the same or die in a consumer market. Be it beta or not Microsoft should be able to at least meet current consumer expectations when so many other companies are doing so.
Let's not bake the author because he is an intelligent consumer with a critical eye. If Microsoft, with all its capital and prowess, has problems with its products there is no reason people like Joshua should not point them out.
I love to see all the idiotic windows mobile fanboys who try to deflect the criticism from their favorite POS operating system by claiming "Pro Apple Bias".
This has NOTHING To do with the iPhone. Yes, the iPhone's OS is far superior to Windows mobile, but so is Android, Blackberry OS, and the many custom extensions and interfaces placed over the top of windows mobile.
To put it bluntly, Microsoft's latest attempt is pathetic and they continue to highly underwhelm everyone.
This effort is not that bad. Keep in mind this is Windows Mobile 6.5, not 7. Its not supposed to be a complete rewrite.
I agree that this article is not particularly biased toward Apple, but it is doesn't cut Microsoft any favors either. While it may not support multi touch or include Zune integration, it does have an App store, a newer, touch-friendlier interface (which is way better than 6.1 even if it is not as good as Android or the iPhone), a newer IE, and some other new features. If you were expecting a complete interface rewrite with a new kernel and such, your expectations were a little high for a .4 upgrade. Its like expecting Vista SP2 to make vista look exactly like Windows 7 and have a new kernel.
If someone criticizes Apple, the Mac geeks get their feathers ruffled. If they criticize Microsoft, fanboys come out of the woodwork. Guess there's just no way to win, Engadget.
I'm sick of how back and forth you commenters get whenever your favorite product gets criticized, and it's annoying. Face it, WinMo isn't the greatest thing ever, as much as I wish it was, and saying so doesn't make Engadget an Apple fanboy (even if they really are). Sure, WinMo isn't crap, but this is a market where we're all looking for the next big thing, the next technological leap forward, so it's pretty irritating to see Windows Mobile just inch along. We expect big things from Microsoft, and we're feeling pretty bummed that they're not happening.
Wow, so much nerd rage. Go outside and have a cigarette before you abuse yourself.
typical engadget... make a little joke and get flamed 25 times...
It would seem to me that Engadget is not consumed by Apple but rather most of the posters on this blog. The article makes no mention of Apple.
It's a simple fact that in the mobile space they're lots of other choices that are (IMHO) better then WinMo. A number of which do not come from that fruit based company.
Just look at the gphone or the pre... hell if you want a winmob that works better look at what HTC is doing. No one wants to use the default install of WinMo because its not good enough anymore.
Should Engagdet not call to task a product that is not up to scratch??