As we've seen in the decidedly
botched digital TV transition, nothing involving government and technology is ever straightforward. With that in mind, let us present to you the most germane portion of the recently passed economic stimulus package with respect to gadgets and the overall nerd kingdom: $7.2 billion. That amount is what President Obama has set aside for "broadband grant and loan programs," though things get confusing right from the start. $4.7 billion will be distributed through a program run by the Commerce Department, while $2.5 billion is handed out by the Agriculture Department. In theory, at least, that latter chunk would go specifically to rural and underserved areas, but having one goal with two masters just seems like trouble waiting to happen. Oh, and then there's the mandate to the FCC that instructs it to create (within one year, mind you) a "national broadband plan to ensure that everyone in the US has broadband access." Granted, these aren't entirely unheard of -- Britain just did the same sort of thing a few weeks ago, and South Korea's already aiming at
1Gbps for all. We appreciate that the money's there, but only time will tell if leads to anything meaningful.
posted February 18th 2009 8:52AM
Wow, another intelligent person in this thread, so far the count is about 5. It amazes me more people dont feel this way.
And just to reiterate, None of you in the thread were ever going to see a penny of the money they are spending so just shut it.
"and all you freemarketers. hello!? the free market just failed catastrophically. we are facing the worst recession in 80 years, chiefly due to a lack of government oversight to curb the greed and fraud."
The free market was working. Until the government tried to bail them out. People would lose their houses because they bit off too much. Boo hoo. Live and learn. Now we have two bailouts, multiple stimulus packages, and no future to recover from it. We would have been better off letting those people lose the homes they couldn't afford in the first place. Instead, we are making the problem bigger and bigger by making more industries pay for it.
Ooooh!
Why the hell does this comment have to be buried on page 2 (and counting)?
Because everybody and their momma is posting on the first thread.
Wow, it just gets worse and worse here at engadget by the day. How do you morons think we got the fucking phone cables put in? THE MOTHERFUCKING GOVERNMENT paid for it. That is why you pay a Universal Cost Recovery fee, so that att can pay back the govt for giving them the lines to make your dumb ass phone and internet work, not that its doing anyone any fucking good.
And those people bashing obama after what 3 weeks as president in possibly the worst presidential hand off ever, are fucking stupid. Again YOU ARE FUCKING STUPID. Have you ever had to come in and fix someone elses mess at a job? It sucks i can tell you that. And this isn't a regular job, and the previous guy who had the job wasnt just a regular old Fuck Up, he was the Epic Grand Master of Fucking Up, Probably only bested by those name Caesar. And after 3 weeks you say he has failed? Ill bet you cheered at the MISSION ACCOMPLISHED debacle.
Anyway, if you dont see how this will help this country there is no hope for you. A job is a job is a job, it doesnt matter if we are building roads or laying fibre, you make jobs that need to be filled and filled they will be, which puts money in people pockets which in turn puts money in your pockets.
You are all so worrid about government spending, but its all invisible made up money you were never going to see anyway, and if you really think about it ITS YOUR MONEY, and wouldnt it be nice if your invisible money you will never see anyway can help someone get a job and feed their family?
/endrant
Broadband for all - and government funded? Who wagers a bet there's something in the stimiuls bill that gives the gov. the right to see what's going on on their new wires?
Awesome, $200 Billion gone already and we're going to throw more at telecoms.
@nastro Really i see it differently. I see a bunch of shallow minded selfish children commenting here on engadget.
Much the same here...
A few points:
1) I am tired of people comparing the rate of broadband penetration with that of other nations (the Netherlands, etc). They point to the fact that they have 35% rate while America has 17 -25%. They don't tell you is that while the Netherlands has 5 million subs on a base of 17 million people - the United States has 80 million subs on a base of 300 million people. There is no comparison. Even the highly populated China has only 48 million subs. The USA IS the leader in Internet connectivity and capacity
2) The claim about 1Gb connectivity is nearly irrelevant. Just allow ONE neighborhood to attempt to blast 4 television sets each of High Def IPTV. You will soon see that BANDWIDTH is a different issue from ARCHITECTURE. The question of WHAT WILL THE PEOPLE BE DOING with the bandwidth and WHERE is the datastore (ie server)
3) The recent rural broadband bill PROHIBITS any carrier who TAKES THE MONEY from deploying CONGESTION CONTROL. This is nothing more than having POLITICS/IDEOLOGY trump REALITY /NETWORK MANAGEMENT. If someone can find me a mobile operator, for example that will EVER be able to allow their customers to do a steady stream of 1.2Mbps data from a mobile device without reacting to this user - I'd love to see it. This ONE USER is going to consume the limited resource - the wireless spectrum to the detriment of OTHER USERS. Some people believe that because they paid $49 per month that they have the right to rule the world. In truth there will NEVER be a time where users - wireless or wire line will be able to constantly stream on their connection without impacting the core network which by definition is a SHARED RESOURCE.
I would NOT TAKE THE MONEY if I were a carrier.
If it were only that simple.
Are you f**king kidding me Dillinger? Why? First off the economy as a whole has been tanking (even more so) ever since Barry was elected, so who cares when he actually took office. Wall Street, if you haven't noticed, has responded several times now to his and other dems irresponsible behavior. And why shouldn't we have a right to object after three weeks (actually four) when his frivolous spending of taxpayers hard earned money is being spent at unprecedented levels in just his first month in office? For as much bashing as people do regarding GW this Barry guy has most likely caused more harm and setbacks to this great nation in just one month than any past president has over the entire course of their terms. You just keep telling yourself you did the right thing you idiotic dumba$$.
Finally, in regards to taxpayer subsidized broadband for all...
What the heck is wrong with the broadband connections our libraries currently provide?
Nothing you said makes any sense. How can a president 3(4) weeks into his term have that effect in an economy that has been on its way down for the last 2 years minimum.The stimulus isnt even in effect.
Obama hasnt actually had the chance to do ANYTHING yet, due to the way the system works. What we are seeing and experiencing now is all fallout from your beloved Bush. You've got blinders on to the world buddy
By your logic, we should just do whatever it takes to make Wall St. investors happy. Everyone that's not an investor should just give up all wealth and become free labor for the investors then. That should make them happy and rise the DJI.
Am I the only person that thinks that this is a *good* thing?
Depends on where you are coming from. Good, in that it creates temporary jobs and lays a lot of cable... bad, in that it's not going to stimulate anything.
@ANDIR3.0
I agree with every bit of what you are saying. If you are so smart what are you doing explaining all of this to a bunch of people on Engadget? haha You better start campaigning for 1012.
Sorry my American friends, i have nothing against you, but the way you -some, not all- still argue about "free markets" (which are not so free but more greedy than anything else) and jump everytime anyone mentions investing taxes on something as "i dont want my money to be spent that way" is just ridiculous and outdated. Theres a reason that the US is lagging behind Europe and Asia in infrastrucutre, and its because that hands-off approach doesnt work! Too many fat, greedy bastards more worried about their own pockets than anything else, dont give a damn if the country goes down the toilet if they can still make money out of it. Let the government do it's job, it might not be perfect but its better than sitting around doing nothing. I hope you catch up again on the rest of the world before its too late, and youre still waiting for the market to do its job.
This is all marketing, propaganda, and pork spending to enrich friends. I work in the interactive industry and I rub elbows with some notable folks while running a high traffic website on the Internet. In the last few years I haven't seen our share of modem visitors go over 10%. Infact, I just ran a report showing that 5.7% of our traffic has dial up speeds, the rest are broadband and above. Mt demographic are people that are not wealthy, it's moreso bargain hunters and people with poor credit. This is another slight of hand to make the Pres and his cronies seem humanitarian when they are really siphoning cash from us to send to their friends. BTW, who wants a govt run broadband provider? With so many people concerned about Big Brother, I can't believe anyone even wants to cheer this idea on. More billions wasted.
"But the party of Carter and Clinton that mid-wifed our mortgage mess now wants to be trusted to take over and have the government run our entire system of health care!"
I like that idea. Let's call the arsonists to put out the fire.
I keep seeing people in here blaming bush for spending $700B. I thought he only awarded $300 - $350B and the democrats wanted to spend the additional funds. I remember clearly Bush saying he would only sign it early if Obama asks him too - which he did. He didn't want to spend any more of it. Now he's being blamed for it? I know a lot of people hate Bush, but come on. Let's be real here. Bush was very gracious in the transition and worked very well with Obama. Not sure how some people in here are saying it was one of the worst transitions ever.
We are within 50 miles of San Francisco.
SBC does not provide us DSL.
Comcast wants $80K to run a line to us.
If we get service, I will be amazed. They will sooner run T1's 100mi to a farmer's house than my area.
South Korea's gettin 125MB per second, jesus man, and im on comcast at like 6, wtf. lol. well its good everyone will be in broadband, and theres no better time to do it, but were in a recession, i would think we be nickle and diming the necessaries for a short term before we upgrade old systems, but you know it is excellent there doing this. but maybe this is a way for people to buy broadband, and there want to after being on dialup or DSL, way to spend money, and the company's to make it back, buttt, thats not really helping other things, but ima shut up now, cuz i hate politics. i jsut cant get over South Korea, lol
I'm tempted to say I want the government to pay for my broadband, but then we'd end up paying twice the cost in additional taxes...
Something I don't understand about the lack of rural broadband: My parents live in a rural area, but have had cable TV for years, and last year got rural water. If companies can afford to dig trenches and lay pipes, and string coax, why can't they provide wired broadband to those same homes?
I'm so damn freaking tired of all these economic stimulus. What it basically mean is it's taking my money and many other tax payer money and distributing to people who don't care for broadband or would not have gotten them because they can't afford it. Why the hell do we all have to pay for them. Why do we continue to bail out car companies who gives themselves a raise every year and letting the rest of the US take care of the bill. Screw all the people who can't afford a home or lost a home or a car because they can't pay a loan. If you can't pay back, you shouldn't have borrowed. Let me keep more of my money by taxing me less. Let me and other people who earned their money keep their money by not taxing us to death here. I mean 25 percent of my money is gone for some asshole somewhere who couldn't control their spending.
Thanks vannyx as I'm fully aware of how I presented the ID ten T error to others. I certainly hope you however weren't calling me an idiot. If so I'd certainly hope you'd take a closer look at your implementation of the "you're" contraction before doing so.
This may have been pointed out earlier or not but if the government builds something it then feels it has the right to regulate WHATEVER is done on it. So, if they give the money to build this broadband infrastructure, they will likely want to lay claim to it. Then they can put censor on whatever goes over those lines. Imagine the fairness doctrine on websites. You make a website supporting your view of whatever: politics, religion, economy, ecology; & the Government REQUIRES you to either also state the opposing view or provide links to websites with the opposing view. Or, if its deemed 'incorrect', just take it down. & for those who are in the "something is better than nothing" boat, doing "nothing" is doing something, its letting businesses feel the consequences of their actions, letting the market learn & resetting parts of the economy that need it. All this money is going to do is put more bureaucracy in the way of action actually happening.
Oh, BTW, while capitalism is far from perfect it has not failed. Russia, China & other old Socialist states are turning to capitalism because, hey, it does actually work. Whats failed is Democratic led hands going into parts of the econ where they do not belong. The housing crisis is the Democrats in congresses fault.
Socialists, leave my country alone. She will heal herself.
I would love to have broadband access everywhere possible. I would love 1Gbps service even more.
please read www.recovery.gov
man you people go to far with this socialist crap. Just because they lay some cable doesn't mean they can control what people see/hear/do. Geez... if that happened in this country people would flip out. You people forget in our history we overcome when there is a problem look at civil rights and what not, that is NOT going to happen in the US because the government lays some wire. I mean geez the US government created the internet for god sakes and look where its at now. We clearly need some regulation and help with our infrastructure because the internet is clearly a new type of infrastructure that is much like roads and bridges. and frankly for being the creators it sucks in a lot of places. the internet connects us just like these physical things do, and it needs to be improved as well just like roads and bridges were in the great depression
complete free market capitalism is what let banks give out those stupid home loan in the first place. without checks and balances everything goes haywire.
and to those that say let the country will stabilize itself: do you people realize that the government lets thousands of home owners people lose their homes and banks had gone belly up because they were receiving no money from mortgages we would all feel the hurt of that, and we currently are?
everyone who is writing these crazy ideologies and things about a stimulus bill that hasn't even really effected anything yet, obviously still has a job. i over 6-8 friends and relatives who were well paid individuals who are all now unemployed. 3/4's of my girlfriend's office staff was cut and CEOs got raises.
want to know more about the stimulus bill and where it's funds are going... go read it at www.recovery.org. participate on the website, the government is attempting to make it as transparent as possible. stop with the pessimism and believe in our country for once because its fear in our leaders, and our infrastructure that has already gotten us to this point. obama has said that if money is not going into things as planned it'll be on that website, and ordinary people like you and I can comment on it. see att wasting money on their part of the check, then say something about it. get enough people together and i'm sure it can be done. the writers of this bill can put it into action but it's up to us, everyday people to make sure the democratic and "free" process works by being their eyes and ears. if you don't want to care and sit on your fat lazy ass and complain about how obama and congress is ruining everything then shut the hell up. if you have a better idea, then walk out your front door and start fixing things yourself.
people have no money! i mean for real... hyundai says you can buy a car and bring it back if you get laid off. WTF!?!? we are in a sad state of affairs people. and just because its not at your front door you choose to act like it'll go away or that what we're doing now won't work. but if nothing is done it soon will be.
government can't fix everything but at this point it'd be stupid if we sat back and tried nothing.
"complete free market capitalism is what let banks give out those stupid home loan in the first place. without checks and balances everything goes haywire."
This is completely not true. If it were not for Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac & Gov enforced (that is to say Democrat congress forced) regs that basically told the banks to lend to people who could not pay we would not be here today. A smart bank does not lend to people who can not pay. Why? BECAUSE THEY CAN NOT PAY. The bank will not see that money. But when the Gov says 'its a "right" for everyone to own a home' & 'you better make loans to make this happen or you'll get our wrath', what is a Bank to do?
Also, back in '04 there was hearing over Fannie & Freddie where many republicans said, 'look, if we do not curtail this we are going to go into an economic tailspin', but Dems like Barney Frank & the like all stood up for these horrid programs saying there was nothing wrong with them. What happens in Sept '08? Housing market spiral from loans through Fannie & Freddie to people who couldn't pay.
Seriously. Open your eyes. The Dems just passed through an $800Billion bill, Obama announced a $3.6 TRILLION (thats a THIRD of our current deficit, about a fifth of our GDP or roughly equal to Indias GDP) budget for this YEAR (not his first term, just this year). They are working on more bills in the hundreds of billions of dollar range. They have rerouted the census through the white house. Even Obama supporters like Jim Cramer has called Obamas moves the "largest destruction of wealth" in his life time. Obama is looking to nationalize thing to the detriment of not just the American people & their econ, but ultimately the world (AIG is in some trouble & they insure many many large international Co. & banks). Hopefully the Republicans can stop their bickering to stand up against this & hopefully instead of just waiting & watching & "crossing thier fingers", the American populace will wake up, look around & say, "HEY! Last I checked we weren't a socialist society! Theres no hammer & sickle on my flag! The Gov is supposed to work for me, not me for it!"
Want to turn the econ around? Get some actual business managers from actual corporations that succeed & let them @ the books instead of these congressmen & President who have never dealt with the economy as a reality.
It's clear that this billion-dollar stimulus bill is good news from some people and not such good new for others. We can call this people Crazy Ann and Bert, respectively:
http://theopenend.com/2009/03/12/a-tale-of-two-houses/
Thumbs up. I'll agree with the left that this is an important effort. Those bit ching about "welfare" should spend more time yelling about the bank bailout that this.