TiVo and DISH / Echostar head back to Texas for another patent duel
By Donald Melanson 
posted Feb 18th 2009 2:46PM
posted Feb 18th 2009 2:46PM
Well, just when it was starting to look like TiVo and DISH / Echostar may finally have put their seemingly never-ending patent dispute behind them, the two companies now look to be rekindling things in Texas this week, where they've landed in court once more to sort out that pesky patent involving TiVo's Time Warp software. As patent dispute junkies may recall, TiVo first wound up being awarded some damages in the matter way back in 2006, after which Echostar was forced to develop some workaround software that it claims no longer infringed on TiVo's Time Warp patent, which allows for recording of one channel while the user watches another. In the meantime, Echostar / DISH continued to fight back against TiVo, with things finally, apparently coming to an end when the Supreme Court ultimately denied DISH's appeal and awarded TiVo those aforementioned damages (plus interest) for real. Now, TiVo is alleging that the DISH's "workaround" software does still violate its patent after all, and it's asking a U.S. District Court Judge in Texarcana, Texas to sort it out. If this latest round plays out as TiVo hopes, DISH could be forced to disable most, if not all, of its DVRs, and potentially buy new DVRs that don't infringe on TiVo's patents.
Hey TiVo, F-U. Your product is slow and everyone hates patent lawsuits.
Considering I have Tivo stock, I like patent lawsuits. I bought the stock knowing that everyone is infringing on Tivo's patent and i expect to make alot of money.
This is how capitalism works. Patents are as valuable as gold and lead to companies spending billions on research and development. If that "gold" is worth "fools gold", you won't see huge leaps in technology. Everyone will just slowly add-on to the previous technology.
Tivo why you gotta break Balls?
Actually I don't care Comcast FTW.
Yeah. Bandwidth caps and monthly price hikes FTW dude!!
This should uh be intresting...?
Texarcana, Texas?
It's Texarkana.
Also, how is Dish software different from Comcast, Charter, Verizon, ATT, and Time Warner DVR software?
because they're thirsty in Atlanta...
Dish is different because they let Tivo come in show them the system, give them a demo unit and examine a copy of the software, extend the negotiations for 6 months leading Tivo on. Ultimately tell Tivo no, and announce their new non-Tivo DVR within a month of telling Tivo no, which ironically looks almost identical to the Tivo unit and operates almost the same. They took advantage of negotiations to steal the technology and software involved and then build their own in house.
They are probably going after the largest company that is infringing the most. Dish used to have a deal with Tivo (and just recently said they were going to start offering it again), as well as Comcast moving to use Tivo software.
Most companies see the writing on the wall that DVR = Tivo. If you want to be able to pause live TV and rewind, then you will have to pay your dues to Tivo. Period.
I think you need a frowny Echostar logo. The way I read this, the worst think that can happen to Tivo is they don't get more money.
Enough already Tivo, you got your money, now go home and leave us alone.
Yeah, I love my Dish DVR.
every one but patent holders
DISH/Echostar should just do the right thing for their customers: abandon their crappy proprietary DVR software and sign a deal with TiVo, just like DirecTV used to have (and has again? maybe?).
Sure, monopolies are bad, but it's not like DISH/Echostar customers really have much choice in the DVR they use anyway. If you're going to limit your customers to only one DVR option, it might as well be a good one.
Have you actually used Dish's DVR? It's pretty good. Good enough that Cnet said it's "better than TiVo."
I agree with Doug, my Dish DVR is amazing.
Why does Dish need a software work-around? The boxes that can simultaneously watch and record have two tuners. Like, say, recording on my VCR while I watch on the TV. Two tuners. It's not fancy software; it's multitasking. Like desktop software has done for twenty-five years.
I could see fancy software being required to handle two different digital streams simultaneously on a single tuner. But first they need to come up with a way to have the two tuners on a single dish feed. Then I will be able to have four tuners in the same box without needing four separate coax lines outside to the dish. You know, like how cable does it? One line regardless of how many boxes you stick on it?
Unfortunately, some companies are allowed to "patent" stuff that they didn't create, and then to do so in the broadest terms so everybody else is violating the new patent.
Most of their receivers have two tuners now, and they only require a single feed from the dish.
OK. Mine's a 625; has two tuners but requires two feeds.
Tivo i love you. But man your software is slow & outdated.
I think that instead ofyou concentrating on lawsuits and the likes. You should concentrate on how to expand
your services. You revolutinized the way we watch TV OK WE GET IT. You help us set recording from anywhere
but man did you miss the point about how to watch tv anywhere. I think if you would have purchased SLINGMEDIA a tivo would def be the box to have.
I mean look @ the motto it would have been.
Watch yout TV ANYTIME. SET RECORDINGS FROM ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD & NOW WATCH YOUR TIVO ANYWHERE.
I hate the fact that I have to have another box on top of my tivo box.And boy do they need to work on their software.
With current interfaces when i use my tivo i feel like i stpped back into 1999.
Echostar bought Sling...
Doesn't Echostar own Slingmedia now?
I completely agree that effort should be focused on improving the technology primarily. Tivo already has a very strong brand image in the US, giving them an instant advantage over their competition.
Besides, software patents are just plain wrong. They strike me as being relics from an age where courts didn't understand the implications of their descisions when it came to digital intellectual property, and I can't think of a single reason for them not to be abolished.
I'm opposed to copyright and "Intellectual Property" generally but software patents are particularly ridiculous. Remember Microsoft's patent on the double click (http://www.wired.com/techbiz/media/news/2004/06/63707) anyone?
I say, people were recording one channel whilst watching another when VCRs first became available, making it novel and unique twenty years ago. It doesn't matter how your software implements this functionality; you didn't invent anything new.
http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2009-01/slingloaded-dish-vip-922-details/
Yeah, someone other than TiVo had the foresight to make that call, Frank. It was Charlie Ergen.
Dear Dish:
Take a license. Everybody's doing it. Don't you want to be cool like everyone else?
Thanks,
Patent attorney
Dear Michael:
The patent relates to the ability to simultaneously record and watch the same program. e.g., recording the first 10 minutes of a show, starting to watch the show from the beginning while the show continues to record, and then fast-forwarding the commercials to catch up to live TV. Last I checked VCR's couldn't pull that off, and even dual-tuner boxes use that protocol for watching a single program on one of the tuners. So if you can find a device capable of doing that prior to July of 1998, here is my free advice of the day: 1) keep it to yourself. 2) go get a lawyer. 3) Contact Dish. 4) Collect millions of dollars from Dish for finding what the countless millions they've already spent couldn't.
Thanks,
Patent attorney
Maybe TiVo could better afford to update things a bit if their competitors hadn't ripped off their IP and had properly licensed it from TiVo instead?
Tivo = SCO Unix slimy arsed can't make money any other way but to sue people loser arsed company. I will never again support Tivo and I will slam their products to anyone who is within ear shot. I've just sent them an email to that effect as well.
Can you tell I love my DishDVR's? :)
I really miss my ReplayTV
Don't these Tivo imbeciles understand that they're just creating bad press for themselves? I will build a media center or go back to watching regular TV before I will give Tivo a dime of my money. There's a huge difference between being right and doing the right thing. You dorks got your money, suck it.
where is this Texarcana you speak of? I've heard of Texarkana, but never Texarcana
It's a fantastical land of magical steampunk cowboys.
That should be Texarkana, not Texarcana. It's the crossroads of Texas, Arkansas, and Louisiana.