Microsoft unveils Windows Marketplace fees, splits, hopes, and dreams
By Joshua Topolsky 
posted Mar 11th 2009 9:56AM
posted Mar 11th 2009 9:56AM
Additionally, the company maintains that the process will offer "complete transparency throughout the application submission process," which indicates the folks in Redmond wouldn't mind courting devs who've been burned by Apple's opaque, confusing, and sometimes unfair system of approval. Besides the flat rates, Microsoft will take 30 percent of earnings from sales just as Apple and Google do -- the lone standout being RIM, who's generously offering 80 percent to devs (though hasn't exactly been blowing doors off hinges with its movement on fostering development). Microsoft's Marketplace will debut with the launch of Windows Mobile 6.5 in Q4 2009, though developers can apparently register come Spring, and start submitting this Summer.
That is probably the ugliest bag Engadget could have found.
Sigh. Microsoft always follows, never leads.
Just like you to each and every Apple product Paul, you hypcrotical douche.
hey paul,
doesnt 90% marketshare mean theyre leading? oh macs have like 7-9% marketshare, right? i think in your reality distortion field they still lead right? douche!
Oh, no, a couple of guys I will never meet or see don't like me. How will I ever live this down?
blah, blah, Vista SP2 RC makes cod4 and cod5 crash and didn't fix my ehrecvr.exe crashes!!! (thank god for ghost)
Paul, I don't know you from anyone else out thee, but saying MS never leads is pretty damn dumb.
Oh, yeah, why would I say such a thing?
Windows = copy of the Mac OS
Internet Explorer = copy of Netscape
MSN Music Store = copy of iTunes
Xbox = copy of the Playstation
Live Search = copy of Google
Zune = copy of the iPod
Vista = copy of OS X Tiger
"Every time we go down a path, we look behind and they're right there - we just can't shake these guys. I wish that they would come up with some strategies of their own, but they seem to be going down the path of everything we do. If you look at their strategy in other business areas as well, they tend to do that."
—Kaz Hirai, president and CEO of Sony Computer Entertainment America (SCEA), speaking about Microsoft.
wait, so making a browser is an act of copying? Is Toyota copying Ford by making a car? Is Logitech copying Kensington by making a mouse? Just because MS makes a product of the same category doesn't mean its copying. And how the f*** can you call the Zune a copy of the iPod? They are completely different besides the fact that they play music.
don't forget
MS Word = WordPerfect
Excel = Lotus 1-2-3
Zune = iPod
Jesus, this list could just keep going. Basically, look at anything microsoft offers and I am sure you will find that it was just a knock off of something else.
Even their fanboys are just knock offs of Apple fanboys! What do MS fanboys do? Troll every single Apple related post!
@Paul
If MS is always aping Sony, how come ALL the new features that have gone into the PS3 for the last 2 years have been Sony attempting to duplicate the awesome that is Xbox Live?
As far as the Marketplace thing goes, the exact same criticism could be lobbed at Google, RIM or Palm. There isn't really any way you could innovate an online store.
Apple could be criticised cause they ripped off Handango. they had an application store for Mobile devices LONG before Apple opened up the App Store.
Quoting Kaz gives me a laugh. So, in your mind they are never leading because someone else has invented a concept first? So let’s see, they made an operating system, like other companies had before, and a web browser like a company which failed miserably had invented before, and an online store, a game system, a search application, a music player all like other companies have. The major difference being that they lead on many of those fronts by making the items better. Also, don't you tell me that you think they copied the playstation - that’s a slippery slope as I can say the PS copied every machine before it. In fact, XBL is surely not copied from the PSN system and nobody could seriously argue otherwise.
You want to hate MS, then cool, that’s your right. Yet don’t expect everyone to just jump on board with your view because you make a list. (Netscape wasn’t the first – Nexus was before it. Xenix was before apple’s OS, etc etc… Lists are b.s.)
My best friend (who owns a Mac, of course) told me about five years ago that if I wanted to predict what Microsoft would have on the market in the next few years, just look at what's popular right now. I was mad at him at the time, because I was dedicated PC Fanboy to the bone, but boy, was he right.
Oh, good grief. Seriously, who cares who copied who? All I care about is who provides me with the best solution for what I want to do. Microsoft undoubtably copies things that Apple and other companies have done, but the same is true the other way around and, frankly, is of absolutely no importance whatsoever. Should I care that Apple copied OS X's Fast User Switching from Windows XP, as acknowledged by Steve Jobs when he demonstrated it? No.
If you are going to argue about something, at least do it about something interesting.
@ Paul A Chapel
Lets see if we can list a few other rip offs
Dashboard = Konfabulator ( an exact rip even down to the control keys)
iPod = MPMan,Creative,Rio MP3 players (Jeez you do realise Apple didn't invent mp3 players don't you dumb ass ? )
Internet Explorer = copy of Netscape - FAIL a "competitor" to netscape, but then that means Safari must rip them both off no ?
MSN Music Store = copy of iTunes - FAIL iTunes was not the first online music store Sony beat them to it as did many others
Xbox = copy of the Playstation - FAIL Playstations were not the first games console how old are you ?
Live Search = copy of Google - FAIL again Paul google did not invent internet search
Visa - Copy of OSX tiger - FAIL have you ever used Vista ? i use Tiger and Vista everyday don't seem that similar to me.
So really what you're trying to say is " I am a troll with no technical knowledge (or memory of the last 20 years) at all, surprise surpise I'm a diehard iTard"
@Skeezle
Aren't you trolling a Microsoft post right now?
OMG
If I make an app for WinMobile and want to sell it for $1, I have to sell 667 copies just to make sure I get my money back?!
No coding for WinMob from me!!!
It's always that kinda passive aggressive shit with MS over here. At least we didn't a get bad photoshop pic of Ballmer screaming something that only preening iTard would laugh at.
@Shinigami - if you are worried about your app not selling more than 667 on a phone that sells in its millions you are not the kind of developer the want releasing sub-standard apps on the app store. Just release your cr@p on another website.
If you are smart you would release beta on XDA and gauge interest.
I hope the app store wont push the previously free apps on xda onto a paid service. naturally this is likely to happen but i guess the developers deserve it if it is worthy.
peace out!
Also, student developers won’t be charged the registration fee if they enroll in the Microsoft DreamSpark program.
More info on MS's Marketplace: http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=2275
@ Major4Play
"diehard iTard". Kudos my friend, that's priceless. thnx.
they shouldve used a bag of hurt.
Why not just let the community do its own quality assurance?
Cause we would be inundated tons of fart apps
Because the community obviously sucks at it.
The post your apps on XDA-Developers.com. The way its done now.
They are not forcing you to use the marketplace. That's whats great about WinMo.
OPTIONS!
Gotcha Ruben, that wasn't clear from this article.
Good to know!
Options...?
Yeah: rock or hard place.
Hmmmmm.
@Sisyphus
Save your breath. They'll never understand. Their only defense is fart apps, copy & paste, and crazy zombie fanboys. But in our own understanding, it's actually useful apps (because we don't just look at the Top 100 apps), copy & paste (my old phone RAZR never had that either, so I don't see what the big deal is anyway), and Apple have devoted fanboys that Microsoft will never have.
Apple and Googles Android app store have it right. Microsoft has it wrong.
Why? Because it's Microsoft? Did I miss something?
By charging the same price and offering 5 submissions free.
Yep, bunch of idiots.
ANDROID is going to own if this is the case
Well, Apple and Google have it "right" in that they have a product. All we seem to get from Microsoft when it comes to Windows Mobile is talk and, honestly, it's getting a little boring. I guess we'll have to wait until the end of the year to see what WinMo 6.5 actually delivers...
99$ per year. 99$ per app. AND they take 30%? WTF?
NO!
"Up to five application submissions to Windows Marketplace for Mobile is included in the introductory annual registration fee of $99 (U.S.). Each additional submission within the annual period will cost $99 (U.S.)."
99 per year and 5 app submissions. 99 per app thereafter.
READ!
Source: Microsoft (http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2009/mar09/03-11WMMDevelopersPR.mspx)
epic fail
Am shock! Anyone remember Ballmer making fun of Apple for charging 30% to developers at Mix08? why the F*ck are they doing the same thing if they thought at one time that it was lame?
Ballmer laugh at everything he can't win.
iPhone
Android
iPod
App Store
Google Search
etc.etc.
What the heck? So an instant $198 if i want to develop apps?
It's too expensive. A commission based model will be better for both parties. If the app sucks, it wont sell, the developer wont get paid
To be fair, if it sucks the developer doesnt deserve to get paid.
I think it will be good, only quality apps, not like all the crap i have to wade through on teh likes of Handango etc.
so MS should do the quality assurance for free? you can submit millions of fart programs that doesnt take more than 1 day of programming and MS should filter and evaluate millions of these crap programs for nothing?
99 dollars is very very reasonable.
NO, they could do something smart like implement a flagging system. Users who gets burnt can rate or flag the app. Then it wont be displayed anymore and the submitter will get a low rating that his following apps will inherit. SIMPLE and less expensive on MS's human resource part
But u know, on second thoughts this would mean fewer apps and increase my chances of getting discovered or purchased from. So i like the fees from that side
A flagging system would suck. It just means a competitor would flag an app and have that app taken off. Also what about the person who got burnt? Is that for the good of others?
Why not just vet before hand and only good apps get in. That way you dont have an ebay environment where there are tons of measure to stop people getting burnt but they still do.
peace out!
@donperry
It's $99 to register, after that you get 5 free submissions. After you have submitted 5, then you have to pay $99 for each submit.
$99 for each app.. I wonder if they'll count updates as "unique app reviews"... Typical microsoft BS..
I think Microsoft doing this will only piss off even more people like me, and everyone else out there who at maybe had a little speck of hope out there for them.
Dear Microsoft:
I know you may see it hard to do so, but please take this into recognition. People may actually like you if you stop ripping them off and giving them all horrible prices on things that will probably be crap anyways.
Sincerely,
A very peeved patron!
I know Microsoft has better potential and doesn't need to do this.
"I think Microsoft doing this will only piss off even more people like me,"
What exactly are they doing?
How can a company that manages to make a user experience frustrating "ensure that the end user's experience is optimal"?
So let me get this straight:
They're taking the WinMo platform, which is already a very open platform to developers, and adding:
-$99/year membership
-$99/submission
-30% cut of revenue
-MS Reviewing apps to say yea or nay
And in return, devs can sell their apps on the MS Marketplace instead of... well, all the other ways WinMo apps can already be sold.
Can you say LAME?!
You don't HAVE to use the marketplace.
You can still have your own site, with your own software, sold the way you want it.
This isnt an obligation to use, so it's totally up to you.
I don't think it's WinMo only. Does it say so anywhere?
Zeke, watch out, you are upsetting the MS fanboys...
I guess it is. Nvm.
30% that's BULL$#!%
Unlike Apple, without Microsoft you always have options.
They give you a choice, a word that is altogether absent from the lexicon of any Apple fanboy.
@Look_Around_You
With all due respect, the choice of where you sell your software isn't really up to you - it's up to your customers. If your customers decide that they only trust software that have been vetted by Microsoft and is available via the MarketPlace, as a software developer you will need to sell your software via the MarketPlace. Choice is always nice but reality will dictate whether there is any benefit of it.
In 18-months time we'll be in a position to access what the viable outlets are for a Windows Mobile developer. My bet at this time is that it will almost exclusively be via the MarketPlace, assuming that the MarketPlace is well integrated into the OS.
Do they want devs to submit a copy of their source too? LOL - now THAT would be the M$ we all know and love.
Actually, that would be the Apple we all know and love...
Have you ever used a lot of the applications on Apple's store? They crash all of the time. Are riddled with bugs and other issues and it is full of stupid and useless applications. This will keep those companies at bay or if they really think they will be able to sell it they will cough up the money to see if their time and efforts and money were worth it or not. What sounds so wrong about that?
Are the development tools free? or do you have to buy Visual Studio?
Visual Studio Express is free. Apple's development environment is free, too, but you have to buy a WHOLE FREAKING COMPUTER if you don't already have an Apple.
I don't know what people are complaining about.
There are tons of WinMo apps available outside of the store that are pay apps. If they don't want to use MS's app store, they can go to the thousand of other stores or just put it on their website.
Most of my apps for my WinMo device were downloaded through a mobile web browser, or downloaded on a computer and sync up to the device.
No, the problem for developers is marketing. A marketplace is better because potential customers can search across alot of submissions and hopefully yours pop up. The problem with hosting your own app is promoting it. Chances are it may never be discovered.
But the best scenario for me is one where u wont need a loader software like iTunes, but just purchase from the site with your phone and load it instantly.
Ever heard of XDA? Getting somebody there to like will definitely give you tons of marketing.
There are tones of app hosting sites that are scoured by WinMO, Palm OS, S60, and Blackberry users. Many have free and for sale apps.
Question: will customers be able to buy applications using real money or do we still have to buy silly Microsoft Monopoly Points or whatever they are calling their currency these days?
Incidentally, if anyone was expecting this store to be cheaper for developers than Apple then this is another indication of the confusion that people have between the 2 companies. Apple makes its money from hardware where as Microsoft makes its money from software, hence why they need to charge higher fees for the Marketplace whereas Apple charges more for the actual device.
Point very well taken. But i also realise they CAN make money from Software hardware marriage through licensing. In Fact, they have the potential to make MORE than apple since their OS will run on DOZENS of phones instead of just one like the iPhone.
While the iPhone is just a single unit (yes it sells alot) think about the Samsung Omnias, the e71s, the HTC's
In short, it is what happened in the 80's that will happen to the phones. Apple was tied to a single hardware (they lost), microsoft was software and didn't care what the hardware was (just be x86 and they won)
So they dont need to charge that much. The ball is actually in their court (If they use their brains)
""...run a rigorous certification process to ensure that the end user's experience is optimal"
i take it windows will not feature any time soon then.
wait...this is just apples site.
what the hell!?
$99 for five apps...
70/30 split.
if you feel your apps have been a success and you want to sell more after you have made some money, its $99 for an additional app.
whats the issue?
its fine, cause the reports all indicate that consumers are trending toward winmo anyway!
if you REALLY want a business productivity tool/toy!
check the stats!
http://wmpoweruser.com/?p=3578
"Up to five application submissions to Windows Marketplace for Mobile is included in the introductory annual registration fee of $99 (U.S.). Each additional submission within the annual period will cost $99 (U.S.). The registration fee is waived for student developers who want to reach Windows® phones customers, through enrollment in the Microsoft DreamSpark program."
Lets not forget that Apple also charges $99/$299 for their SDK before we start hating on MS.
Does anyone know what Apple and Google charge for SDK's and extra fees?
Can you not read?
Clearly you cannot !!!
Apple don't charge for the SDK they charge to put your app on the store.
The Android SDK and Eclipse (its recommended IDE) are both free. But that's not the real point. For messing around, would you rather program in an old language (such as C, C++, Objective-C) or a funky new language (such as Android)...
Dont you mean Java version 2?
My bad, I misread:
"To run applications on the iPhone, the application needs to be signed with a certificate assigned by Apple after the developer has developed the software through either the US$99/year or US$299/year developer package and official iPhone SDK."
To mean the SDK was $99, but it seems like the the certificate is where the charge comes in...
@LondonConsultant
Surely if you are "messing around" then the language doesn't really matter. If I'm going to actually code for a living then I'd prefer to use the language that allows me to deliver faster and deliver reliably to my customers. Whether that language is new or old is really rather immaterial but I tend to favor "proven" rather than "the new hotness".
@LondonConsultant
lol
Android isn't a new language...The Android OS uses Java libraries...although you can also compile C code for the platform.
Funny thing I just noticed about MS, since the EU is on their ass to disable their browser and make it an option to choose the browser after install they did that, but then now I noticed that suddenly normal pages on microsoft.com suddenly say 'you must have IE to view this page' and when I feign the user agent string it all works fine with firefox.
A tiger doesn't lose its stripes eh. Or was it a leopard doesn't lose its spots? Or is it all too apple-esque to use that saying nowadays?
If you can't afford a $200 outlay to sell your app under a Microsoft Store logo and get exposure worth *FAR* more, I don't think you're Microsoft's target demographic.
Now, I'm what many of you would call an Apple "Fanboy" because I prefer Mac OS to Windows, but this seems to be a very shrewd move on Microsoft's part.
Whether you call it "copying Apple again" or "fast follower mode," Microsoft actually seems to be doing things right with this approach. Fast follower is a perfectly legitimate strategy and has done them well over the years when they've actually bothered to think about what they're doing instead of just churning out a me-too product.
In this case they've learned from Apple's mistakes with the certification process, and are sending a marketing shot across the bow that actually seems to work. It's snarky in the same way the Mac/PC ads are snarky, but snarky works when it's true (or largely true) (or perceived to be true) (or you can convince people it's true).
They're dangling an early adopter carrot out there with the 5 free submissions in 2009 thing which should give everyone a shot at figuring out what the market is. Come on, whiners... that's just $20/app for the first year. Not bad at all.
Finally, the long-term approach with the submission fees will do an excellent job of weeding out a decent number of low-budget crApps that only serve to irritate customers. If you're not willing to take a relatively small risk on your app, why should Microsoft push it to the masses for you?
Now, the fugly bag, on the other hand...
We will see what happens
Microsoft's problem is that they never know whether something will work until someone else does it. Companies like Apple take chances, even if it pisses people off. And usually they are right.
This is the actual bag: http://wmpoweruser.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/marketplacelogo-thumb.jpg
And Microsoft did this because none of the MANY mobile stores available for WinMo had a built-in delivery system that they expected them to do.
I can tell you one thing Microsoft is doing that Apple isnt. Offering the ability to get your applications from any source you want, as well as their own marketplace (without having to jailbreak).
(I thought I already submitted this, but it never showed up. Please remove if it duplicates)
@Paul, I understand your point, and you're correct in principle. The fallacy is saying that Microsoft's approach doesn't work. Grossly simplifying, there are two approaches to bringing a product to market: Innovator and Fast Follower.
The advantage of an innovator is that you bring a new or vastly improved product that creates or fills a need. People flock to it (hopefully) and you snag tons of market share. You also can typically charge higher prices since the market demand isn't yet filled. The iPod is a great example of this. Apple drastically improved the then weak field of MP3 players by trading some battery life for a giant leap in storage space. They charged a lot for it and the rest is history.
The downside is that it's a high-risk position. The road to Apple's success is littered with the carcasses of failed products. Maybe they were ahead of their time, maybe they didn't have the right feature set, maybe the market wasn't there, maybe they just plain sucked, but for whatever reason, they failed. And we tend to forget the failures when they get overshadowed by giant successes.
The advantage of being a Fast Follower is that you let other companies absorb most of the risk and cost of development. It gives you a chance to get some good data on both a product's strengths and weaknesses, as well as getting better data on the actual market for a product. If you time it right, you can undercut the competition (because you don't have the higher R&D costs) while still getting a decent chunk of market share.
Typically, your product has to offer some sort of advantage over the innovator's product. If the Zune had come out 1 year after the iPod, cost 30% less, and worked seamlessly with the Xbox from day one, we'd be talking about the Zune Nano today.
Fast Follower mode has worked very well for Microsoft, though, and objections to the model are most often based on cultural norms. In the US, we like innovators and frequently disdain copiers. In other cultures, it's just the opposite. China's IP issues are rooted in its cultural norms, not in some flagrant disregard for law. Many Asian cultures value improvement over invention. The thought goes that anyone can invent something... true value comes from perfecting it.
Apple and Microsoft have used both methods over the last few decades, though each tends to favor one method over the other. Neither is wrong. It's just a choice of models.
That doesn't mean that various consumers won't pick a side based on those choices, though. What's more fascinating to me is the innate human need to pick a tribe. Mac/Windows, Ford/Chevy, Nintendo/Sony/Xbox... it's not enough to choose a product based on its merits and your preferences, we also need to seek validation of our choices from others.
@Ruben - Now THAT's a bag I can live with!!! :-D
@ Paul
#
So Apple took a chance by opening an online software store. Of course no-one had ever done that before LOL
l like it! Hopefully, this SDK can standardize the interface.
l also like the fact I can still buy (rogue) apps outside of the marketplace.
I think the pricing is about right, it keeps people who are not serious about what they are doing from submitting constant crap. I don't know why you guys think microsoft should eat the cost of reviewing what will mostly be buggy and probably resource hogging apps.
Fee wise, this doesn't sound too much different from being in the "XNA Creators Club," with the ability to create games and programs for the PC and Xbox 360. Although I think with XNA you just pay a $99 a year fee, but of course if you get one of your games up on the Live Marketplace they of course get a percentage. The actual Visual Studio Express and XNA Game Studio are free, so that's nice.
Either way, if you want to develop Windows Mobile software, but don't want to pay all those fees, just do so and offer it for free, or sell it on another site. If you don't want to have to deal with handling things yourself, and want the additional exposure you'd get, by actually having your program(s) listed where most people will look, and the infrastructure is already made for you, you'll have to pony up some money to take advantage. This is nothing new.
Not bad.
It should feature apps for all Windows platforms though.
I totally agree. But i doubt the success it would bring
Apple charges $99 for memebership, without posting fee and takes 30%. Dev apps & SDK are free as long as you own a Mac (or if you Hack-intosh your PC? I'm not sure if Xcode works on Hackintosh)
MS charges $99 for membership, $99 per post, takes 30% AND you must buy Visual Studio. The VS Express (free) editions don't allow Mobile developement. The SDKs per se are free but I'm pretty sure you need an IDE to develop.
I think MS should at least eliminate the posting fee or lower it to be competitive.
Don't forget the Enterprises: The Enterprise Program costs $299 (US) per yea for Apple. Microsoft is still $99.
This is great for larger developers.
$99 gets you 5 submissions. After that, they are $100/ea.
There are lots of IDEs you can use that aren't Microsoft. And are free. And will run in any number of other environments.
How is it frustrating you dumb fcuk! I mean I can understand two button mouse is hard for you but please get out of your cave.
I am sure they don't, and even if they did they would still be bashing Microsoft. Any developer would find their pricing fair, at least if you are going to create good useful apps not farting apps.
I think a lot of you guys are missing something. Developing for Windows Mobile is so ridiculously easy from a developers stand point. I've made an entire barcode reader in a 1 day without ever touching the device till that morning. Until they make development this easy for the other devices I believe they don't stand a chance.
(On the other hand the Palm Pre looks better as I'm a web developer and have Sprint)
Pretty pointless when you take into consideration that Windows Mobile phones aren't locked down like the iPhone, so you could just go to whatever website you want and download apps, and since there are already developed app stores for windows mobile and palm PDAs, I don't see how Microsoft will think this will be sucessful.
Quoting Kaz gives me a laugh. So, in your mind they are never leading because someone else has invented a concept first? So let’s see, they made an operating system, like other companies had before, and a web browser like a company which failed miserably had invented before, and an online store, a game system, a search application, a music player all like other companies have. The major difference being that they lead on many of those fronts by making the items better. Also, don't you tell me that you think they copied the playstation - that’s a slippery slope as I can say the PS copied every machine before it. In fact, XBL is surely not copied from the PSN system and nobody could seriously argue otherwise.
You want to hate MS, then cool, that’s your right. Yet don’t expect everyone to just jump on board with your view because you make a list. (Netscape wasn’t the first – Nexus was before it. Xenix was before apple’s OS, etc etc… Lists are b.s.)