Toshiba Camileo S10 pocketcam: the $200 1080p Flip-killer?
By Nilay Patel 
posted Mar 13th 2009 4:44PM
posted Mar 13th 2009 4:44PM
Read - S10 announcement
Read - Pocket-lint hands-on
posted Mar 13th 2009 4:44PM
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Good but zoom sux....
at least no rootkits like Sonys
Who cares about zoom? The most important end of the range is wide angle, not zoom. Are you going to be bird-watching or shooting astronomy with a hand-held cheapo cam? And there IS no zoom on this camera anyway; "digital zoom" is no zoom at all.
Here's the blunder of this product (and it seems that there always is one): "and last for 4 hours on a single charge."
Yep, built-in rechargeable battery. So if it dies while you're on the go, the camera's out of commission for hours.
GJ, Toshiba!
Actually the most important thing in competing against the Flip Mino isn't video quality or zoom. It's simplicity. I got the Flip for review at work last year (I'm in TV news). I was initially unimpressed in that other very portable cameras offer more options, better picture quality, optical zooms, light options, mics, etc. But after a few weeks of use -- I realized that the ability to "plug and play" directly to a USB port for editing/uploading/charging was pure genius. The camera automatically adjusts to many light and sound situations, and fits in your jeans pocket or a small pocket in a purse. There are no parts or cards that slide/flip/pop out, other than the USB plug that connects it to your computer - hence the name ... it's a solid little brick that can be taken along without fear that you'll lose or break something off. The comparison isn't a prosumer line product -- it's your cell phone camera. And the Flip blows that away in terms of quality, and ease of use transferring the video. That video, by the way, is no dog. Most untrained eyes think they're looking at HD. After 4-5 other camera reviews, I'm still carrying the Flip. So, yeah - I'm a fan. I'd love to see what Toshiba's product can do -- but the Flip reminds me of the iPod: not the best of it's type of product -- but the best overall packaging of it.
needs more Jason.
Sadly, they only do it once a year..
Scratch that, I just saw it in a couple of pics
yay! request filled!!!! ayyayayayaya
Is the LCD that looks like it's made from 90's technology(at least in this pic) a good enough reason?
'90s
apostrophe + S = possessive
Thank god, I wanted to say the same. Not being a grammar Nazi and all that but, come on, don't abuse the apostrophe. Learn it people.
Apostrophes can be used to pluralize numbers mentioned as numbers, letters mentioned as letters, words mentioned as words, and abbreviations. The New York Times follows this style (and while dropping of the appostrophe may be a new generally accepted style for other publications, there is no right or wrong answer).
e.g., Peggy skated nearly perfect figure 8's.
The bleachers in our section were marked with large red J's.
We've heard enough maybe's.
You must ask to see their I.D.'s.
http://www.esf.edu/writingprogram/tipsheets/apostrophe.htm
Well, AP style dictates apostrophes for just one of these applications: a single letter. That one is rational because of the potential for creating a word, as in, "I got four As on my report card."
It makes no sense with numbers, nor with abbreviations because the numbers and multiple capitals tell you that the lower-case S is creating a plural.
Also, in this example, the apostrophe comes BEFORE the "90", to take the place of the missing "19".
I really want a nice little pocket cam. I study Film and TV Production and don't have near enough cash to get a real camera, but something small with a decent picture to mess around with would be great in between semesters to do little fun shorts. I'm going to keep an eye on this.
If you're a film student, you'll appreciate better controls (at least a zoom control...) more than 1080p resolution! This S10 is just a gadget.
If you are a film student.. why did you tell us? Your post has no relevance to being a film student. You just wanted to brag about how you are studying some super-cool arty degree as if we think you will become Stephen Speilberg or something! Well guess what buddy - the only production you will be doing after that course is that of Big Macs!
Rock on dude, don't listen to people trashing your degree. I'd say definitely go for something like this if it's what you can afford ... web video is largely where the cutting edge storytelling is starting to happen anyway.
Very tempting at that price. Sadly best I can find is £155 with Pixmania. Where exactly is it £130 or is that the price without VAT?
No zoom is a good plan for cameras like these.
That looks awesome.
I'll snap two!
1080p what? 1080p@ 10fps? 24fps? 30fps? How about 60p, because that's what 1080p means to me. That doesn't mean a manufactures want you to think it's 60p, but sells you 30p.
Dude you're an idiot. Find me ANY camera, that is doing 1080p60, I have only heard of ONE camera that does that, and even so it only does that to the HDMI output. What you're thinking of is 1080i60 (which is the more ubiquitous and known format).
If I had to guess it's 1080p30,
no need to guess, follow the link for specs. 1080p/30fps
if 24p (1080p / 24 fps) is good enough for Hollywood movies / blu-ray, it's good enough for me.
Got one a few weeks ago in Switzerland... Saves to SD card (not included) so you'll have to fork out for a decent capacity card. Not too good in low-light conditoins (but what is?), and it saves the movies as .mov files! :s
So would you buy it again?
Yea got one too, really like it - nothing for ambitious filmers, but ideal for memories and quick videos. Really dig its simpleness and mobility.
I'm down for one as soon as I have the spare cash, I've been wanting something like the Flip for taking video at parties and things of that nature. Cheap enough that if something happens to it it isn't the end of the world but still decent video quality.
How does it do for stills? Would I still have to carry around a regular camera on vacation?
The inclusion of digital image stabilization here a big plus for me - most of these ultra-portable pocket cams don't have it, and need it. My nephew has the Flip Mino HD, and its image quality is great, but just about any kind of movement gets the video all shaky & somewhat distorted. It's still usable, and until I saw this cam, I was set on buying the Mino HD.
Digital stabilization is lame because you're sacrificing some of the resolution of the sensor to provide a boundary around the image area. Hopefully that resolution is reclaimed if you turn off the stabilization.
Check out the Manfrotto 585 ModoSteady: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkYWzNTZQJo
I'm aware of how digital image stabilization works, and it *would* be lame if it were implemented in an expensive, pro-level unit, and made you sacrifice some quality. However, this is a pocket-camera, and the whole idea is convenience and quick shooting. These pocket cams need it. I'd rather have usable footage with a slight compromise (9.5) in image quality than great image quality (10), but not ever be able to move the camera. However, I'm still interested in analyzing more sample footage with motion before making a final call on this cam.
The Manfrotto 585 ModoSteady looks like a really nice product, thanks for the link! I might have to pick one up. Unfortunately, it's still one of those things you have to doink with when you're getting ready to shoot. Kinda negates the spur-of-the-moment, from-the-pocket (straight-outta-Compton) HD shooting. Still, very handy.
...once again, engadget maliciously leaves out the creative vado HD, despite its superiority...
Looks like YouTube will have to beef up their servers. For $200, every kid from the age of 10 will have one of these.
i have the minohd i like it a lot for 200 it does everything a simple pocket cam should do
Wow. Two hundred dollars for 1080p/30fps? If my 20MB/s (write) SD cards can keep up with that, I'm certainly in for one.
They can, I have a few class 4 cards and they work well. It's not true fullhd though, it's only 1440x1080 at 30fps, bear that in mind.
@ Info Central
It has a 5MP sensor. That is far more than enough boundary to have a float with a 1080 resolution. Do the math. 1920 x 1080 = 2.1MP. It could have a 10 pixel float on the vertical and horizontal and still be under 2.2MP. The problem is that the 5MP is providing crappier (with a lot of wasted pixels) because the pixels are so small. A larger pixel, lower resolution sensor would provide less noise,especially in low light (given the same 1/2.5 sensor footprint).
True indeed. And I agree that they would have been much better off with a lower-resolution sensor and lower noise. The still quality from this thing is going to suck big-time anyway, so they've needlessly squandered the quality for the device's main purpose: video. It'll be especially bad since noise stresses the compression and creates a mess.
Are any of these gonna have external mic input?
This one doesn't, the mic is pretty good though - you might need to cover it up with some fabric when recording in a concert.
this looks shocking familiar to the Insignia Cam featured at Best Buy for less than $200:
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8940015&type=product&id=1215217076309
Except for the difference in form factor, zoom, LCD size, resolution, and built-in storage, they ARE shockingly similar...
Where can I buy this in China?! I really want this! This and a 36-core wearable computer (trench-coat required). Really thick glasses might add to the image!
I'm sure there are already badgeless, carbon-copy rip-off products on the streets of China right now, to be had for pennies (yuan) on the dollar.
* F3.2 lens (semi-acceptable low light? forget it)
* 0x optical zoom
* 4x digital zoom
Still rather buy an entry level standard-def MiniDV camcorder offering so much more for so little more (far brighter lens starting at F1.8, 40x+ optical zoom, optional infrared NightShot shooting in Sony model, refined manual controls, good white balance, lossless 16bit/48KHz audio, etc).
http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&productId=8198552921665335432
I have my doubts any of these measure up where it counts... but sure they are handy. Still, they are still expensive for what you (don't) get, IMO.
Anyway, less talk, more sample videos.
MiniDV standard-def versus the new breed of HD cheapies. Who will win the 'most impressive cheapie video' honours? MiniDV of course!
That would totally fit in my pocket...
like I say, this seems handy... but not much else.
Still, would be interesting to see sample vids under a range of conditions (and changing conditions too), to see how the exposure, focus and white balance systems cope...but I'm not expecting to be amazed.
A MiniDV cam might not be jeans pocketable, but it's definitely jacket pocketable and priced pretty damn close to a lot of these entry-level models.
Long live MiniDV standard definition as long as Panasonic, Canon and Sony are making quality cams at prices so close to these disposables.