Here she is, fresh off the Saturday Express. Apple's latest Mac Pro is said to be significantly more nimble and entirely easier to upgrade than its Penryn-based predecessor, and while it'll take us a few days yet to check out the former claim, we can already assure you that the second one is valid. Upon unboxing this beast (to be fair, it's not all that monstrous), we immediately dug within the cover to see what was up with Apple's new tray system. Rather than forcing users to squeeze their hands into unfathomably tight places just to pop in a new DIMM or add in a fresh 2TB hard drive, the engineers at Cupertino found a way to place all eight RAM slots on a removable tray, meaning that you can actually take that piece elsewhere and operate under better lighting. The tray was dead simple to remove and replace, and while it's a small inclusion, it's definitely an appreciated one. We'll be stressing this thing out and writing up a more thorough review soon, but for now, enjoy the snapshots / video below and after the break, respectively.
OK, total PC fanboy here. That is a seriously nice piece of kit and goes some way towards justifying the prices. Still, I prefer to chafe my fingers and hands building my own systems but in pure hardware terms they'll never look or function as good as this.
I run a 3D animation and video production studio, and in the past 10 years have hand-built about a dozen PCs, owned dozens of Dells, HPs etc. and currently own an Xserve and 5 Mac Pros (2006 versions - current), mac mini and two Macbooks. After owning and evaluating all of these different machines, I can say with certainty that it's all about your PERSONAL experience and needs, so saying one is better than the other is a waste of everyone's time.
In my experience, PCs from OEMs like Dell are built like toys with very cheap components, even in the more expensive units. Hand built computers are better if you use quality components, but if something goes out during crunch time you're personally on the hook to figure it out immediately. All OEM/hand built PCs are, in my opinion, limited by Windows, especially when it comes to using more than 3GB RAM. Sure you can get Windows 64bit and address more RAM, but software/hardware support has always been dodgy depending on your needs. Linux is not an option for everyday use and supporting the dozens of high-end apps designers tend to use, so it doesn't figure in for a user like me.
The Macs, on the other hand, have been drop dead reliable for us. Others here are complaining about issues they've had but not one of our macs has ever had a hardware issue in the past ten years of owning them. Not one. Nor have we had to reinstall the OS to solve problems like you tend to do on Windows-based PCs. We upgrade RAM and hard drives when needed without any problems, it's easier than most PCs given the smart layout of the case. The macs just work for us, and personal experience counts more than anything in how you perceive a product.
Given the native 64bit nature of OSX, accessing large amounts of RAM for 3D/video applications is not an issue, and without the annoying lack of driver/software/hardware support found in 64bit Windows. We've never had problems with 3D apps that some here mention, using Maya, Modo etc. They all work beautifully even with the stock gfx cards Apple offers. And now that we can throw Bootcamp into the mix and use apps like 3ds Max or other "PC only" software, there's no comparison in terms of value.
The higher perceived cost of macs is debatable when you factor in build quality and reliability, both factors being all about personal experience. If you average the many dozens of reports on OEM customer satisfaction, Apple does come out on top so, your own negative experience aside, most mac owners agree that they are quality machines. There is also the issue of value retention. Sure macs are more expensive up front, but try selling your hand-built or Dell PC that is just one year old and see what you get - probably 1/4 of what you paid for it if you're lucky. With macs, the resell value is extraordinarily high. Machines that are several years old still fetch 50% or more of their retail price.
My evaluation of what makes either platform better is based on my business needs in a particular industry, and personal experience. Casual home users, gamers or cubicle farms will have different needs so they will value other things. Hence, neither can be declared "better" - it's all purely subjective.
You didn't mention the awesome new PCI card locking mechanism! With one push, you unlock all PCI cards at once, rather than fiddling near the card connector for the little plastic clip to set the card free.
Right, this hasn't been on PCs for 5 years....mac pro is a niche computer that fits it's role well.
The problem is that it's the only true desktop computer apple offers. As a result people think this computer is simply faster than PCs.
Try running a Single or dual core application on this vs a 4.5ghz overclocked nehalem. For the very few programs that do use 8-16 cores the mac pro is great. For everyone else ( unless you're working on big movie releases ) an 8-16 core system is not only excessive, it's actually slower. On an average application you will have 1-2 core support making dual/quad cores far superior ( higher speed per core ).
Mac pros can't be overclocked. With a PC a 30 dollar aftermarket cooler and 5 minutes of your time you can make an E5200 beat stock E7400/8400 ( overclock to 3.5ghz+ ).
why not the LS2LS7?, You do know that to connect a FW400 device to a FW800 port it's just to use a cable with FW400 on one side and FW800 on the other, so in that sense Apple didn't remove FW400 on the front of the latest Mac Pro's.
The new RAM tray is great but I find it funny that Dell had that around 4 years ago on the GX110 lol. I'm an avid Apple product fan having only one issue in my 5 years of owning them but it's interesting what people focus on as important. The rest of the review gave it mid-range marks.
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posted March 14th 2009 12:58PM
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OK, total PC fanboy here. That is a seriously nice piece of kit and goes some way towards justifying the prices.
Still, I prefer to chafe my fingers and hands building my own systems but in pure hardware terms they'll never look or function as good as this.
Yea because the number of DVI connections is the benchmark for value these days.
Go find something else to bitch about or shut that filthy little flamer mouth.
/s
Ahh, gotta love the never ending Mac/PC debate.
I run a 3D animation and video production studio, and in the past 10 years have hand-built about a dozen PCs, owned dozens of Dells, HPs etc. and currently own an Xserve and 5 Mac Pros (2006 versions - current), mac mini and two Macbooks. After owning and evaluating all of these different machines, I can say with certainty that it's all about your PERSONAL experience and needs, so saying one is better than the other is a waste of everyone's time.
In my experience, PCs from OEMs like Dell are built like toys with very cheap components, even in the more expensive units. Hand built computers are better if you use quality components, but if something goes out during crunch time you're personally on the hook to figure it out immediately. All OEM/hand built PCs are, in my opinion, limited by Windows, especially when it comes to using more than 3GB RAM. Sure you can get Windows 64bit and address more RAM, but software/hardware support has always been dodgy depending on your needs. Linux is not an option for everyday use and supporting the dozens of high-end apps designers tend to use, so it doesn't figure in for a user like me.
The Macs, on the other hand, have been drop dead reliable for us. Others here are complaining about issues they've had but not one of our macs has ever had a hardware issue in the past ten years of owning them. Not one. Nor have we had to reinstall the OS to solve problems like you tend to do on Windows-based PCs. We upgrade RAM and hard drives when needed without any problems, it's easier than most PCs given the smart layout of the case. The macs just work for us, and personal experience counts more than anything in how you perceive a product.
Given the native 64bit nature of OSX, accessing large amounts of RAM for 3D/video applications is not an issue, and without the annoying lack of driver/software/hardware support found in 64bit Windows. We've never had problems with 3D apps that some here mention, using Maya, Modo etc. They all work beautifully even with the stock gfx cards Apple offers. And now that we can throw Bootcamp into the mix and use apps like 3ds Max or other "PC only" software, there's no comparison in terms of value.
The higher perceived cost of macs is debatable when you factor in build quality and reliability, both factors being all about personal experience. If you average the many dozens of reports on OEM customer satisfaction, Apple does come out on top so, your own negative experience aside, most mac owners agree that they are quality machines.
There is also the issue of value retention. Sure macs are more expensive up front, but try selling your hand-built or Dell PC that is just one year old and see what you get - probably 1/4 of what you paid for it if you're lucky. With macs, the resell value is extraordinarily high. Machines that are several years old still fetch 50% or more of their retail price.
My evaluation of what makes either platform better is based on my business needs in a particular industry, and personal experience. Casual home users, gamers or cubicle farms will have different needs so they will value other things. Hence, neither can be declared "better" - it's all purely subjective.
OS X isn't native 64-bit. The kernel doesn't run in 64-bit mode.
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/08/10/28/road_to_mac_os_x_snow_leopard_64_bit_to_the_kernel.html
Thanks for the correction. All I meant is that it can address large amounts of memory and run 64bit applications.
You didn't mention the awesome new PCI card locking mechanism! With one push, you unlock all PCI cards at once, rather than fiddling near the card connector for the little plastic clip to set the card free.
Can we have a video that shows how it works?
Right, this hasn't been on PCs for 5 years....mac pro is a niche computer that fits it's role well.
The problem is that it's the only true desktop computer apple offers. As a result people think this computer is simply faster than PCs.
Try running a Single or dual core application on this vs a 4.5ghz overclocked nehalem. For the very few programs that do use 8-16 cores the mac pro is great. For everyone else ( unless you're working on big movie releases ) an 8-16 core system is not only excessive, it's actually slower. On an average application you will have 1-2 core support making dual/quad cores far superior ( higher speed per core ).
Mac pros can't be overclocked. With a PC a 30 dollar aftermarket cooler and 5 minutes of your time you can make an E5200 beat stock E7400/8400 ( overclock to 3.5ghz+ ).
why not the LS2LS7?,
You do know that to connect a FW400 device to a FW800 port it's just to use a cable with FW400 on one side and FW800 on the other, so in that sense Apple didn't remove FW400 on the front of the latest Mac Pro's.
The new RAM tray is great but I find it funny that Dell had that around 4 years ago on the GX110 lol. I'm an avid Apple product fan having only one issue in my 5 years of owning them but it's interesting what people focus on as important. The rest of the review gave it mid-range marks.