If you,
like us, thought the honeycomb UI in Windows Mobile 6.5 was a solution to a problem that didn't exist then you're in luck; after some internal backlash from its own employee beta testers, Microsoft has tweaked the UI making it "a lot more usable." According to Loke Uei Tan, anyway -- a Microsoft senior technical product manager demonstrating the updated WinMo interface at MIX09. While the enlarged, more finger-friendly icons retain the exact same off-set distribution, gone are the rigid borders separating the hexagons. Scrolling also appears
more fluid and now features some built-in intelligence that stops the flicked scroll-action at the end of each viewable "page" instead of scrolling all the way to the top or bottom of the icon list. Hmm, not sure that's an actual improvement. Check it for yourself at about 6:50 into the video posted after the break. [Warning: Silverlight install required]
posted Mar 20th 2009 4:53AM
"...Scrolling also appears more fluid and now features some built-in intelligence that stops the flicked scroll-action at the end of each viewable "page" instead of scrolling all the way to the top or bottom of the icon list. Hmm, not sure that's an actual improvement..."
Thank God, you just don't know how God damned annoying that is, especially if the item you want is the next one down off screen, and you try to pull it up only to have the stupid phone scroll all the way down to the bottom.
"built-in intelligence" LOL... I wonder if it uses a neural net processor or a positronic brain to work out that its reached the end of a list.
"Warning:Silverlight Required"
Gotta love this iTart. Probably took knelt before his macbook and apologized before installing it.
@KarlW
I low ranked you for being a douche bag.
I know someone in Microsoft who actually develops win mo 6.5, he flies to Korea regularly to work with lg samsung and several others, I have played with the device and I own an iphone, (have also played with iphone 3,0) and I was surprised to find that winmo is at about par with the iphone 3.0. I have always disliked winmo but it impressed even me, still recommend waiting for winmo 7. I also like the fact that I will be one of a select group that was able to play with winmo why'll honey comb was on, to bad so sad for all of you.
I love how light and smooth are these Silverlight players; Impressive! :)
Yeah, why do we need a warning about Silverlight? Will Engadget post a warning about Flash video?
Yeah I didn't even realize it was a silverlight application on my mac until I read your comment. I did install silverlight a while back for some site but I had completely forgotten that it was there. Quite surprising for a MS technology to work so well on the Mac.
It doesn't work for me (trying to use moonlight on Ubuntu).
I just noticed that the presentation mentions engadget.com.. why the hell would they want to promote such an Apple bias site like Engadget? geezus wassup with these guys? They could have promoted a fairer and balance website like betanews.com.
"Quite surprising for a MS technology to work so well on the Mac"
Microsoft softs work well on mac. They are making frequent update to everyone. On the other hand, Quicktime and Itunes work shit on windows. Apple dont give a damn.
Yea, it's impressive. What would be even more impressive is if they could forgo the plugins and do it in standards-compliant HTML.
But, you know, that's just me, being all closed-minded again...
Oh and also, I can scale the video to fullscreen on my big dell 30inch 2560 x 1600 rez and its super smooth. No way I can do that with flash, it become jaggy.
I have a 8600GT.
@jakem
The issue isn't that it's Silverlight or some sort of anti-Microsoft crusade but rather that the reader may have to install some software first and people tend to find that annoying. You'll note that PDF links are normally accompanied by a similar warning. Adobe Flash tends to get a pass simply because everyone has it installed already.
@ nick
If you think that way, why are you here? Seriously! I think Fox News is totally biased horse shit. Guess which channel I never watch & what website I never go to?
It is a big internet, go find another site. You dicks that constantly knock engadget and it's writers all sound like a bunch of whining crybabies. STFU already.
engadget does a great job, if I didn't think so, I would not return. See how that works?
Oh! I thought that was a Flash video before.
@Kelman: Last time I checked Flash required a separate download and installation as well so my point still stands. Besides the warnings about pdfs generally relate to the fact that:
a) the download may be large
b) the document might open in a different window/application/tab
I think it's reasonable to expect the worst when it comes to anything related to Microsoft on Engadget.
Finally, I'm hardly likely to take your advice judging by your silly trolling below.
WHAT TROLLING? I'm sorry but I honestly don't know what the world is coming to when you can't say something without being accused of being either a fanboy/girl/boi/whatever. I happily admit that I was wrong and that tools NOW exist to develop Silverlight content on other platforms. What I said was certainly true in the past and I simply had not read that things had changed.
What I meant about Flash is that it is ubiquitous and everyone has the Flash player installed whereas the same is hardly true of Silverlight. Perhaps that will change in the future but last seen it wasn't even a download the Microsoft pushed out via Windows Update unless you requested Optional downloads.
Will not install Silverlight.
Woa! Advocating open standards suddenly an unpopular position, now?
Clearly these people have never used the web from a mobile phone.
Every winmo phone i have used, has been terrible and slow. Sometimes when trying to call or hang up it just lags, a few seconds behind, hope this is better
Most issues with WiMo being slow has more to do with the hardware then the OS itself. Many Hardware manufacturer design their phone with crappy hardware, for example the tmobile wing...
Well, it's good that they point out that fact because silverlight is just not as widespread as flash (yet?). I, for instance, haven't installed silverlight yet.
This comment should have been a reply for Saad Rabia, of course...
Engadget, is this how you thank people who try to defend you? Post their comments on the wrong place? :P
@Nick hum NO! The issue is the software and NO most wimo phones actually include quite fast hardware because the OS does not really run on cheap stuff. Wimo phones are by definition smart phones and they cost considerably more than you average cell.
Yea, slowness is pretty much a combo of the software, and the cooker of the ROM. I will say, with this AthineOS ROM, WM6.1 is pretty quick, and I'm quite pleased with it.
@digitallysick
Yeah my tilt pisses me off beyond belief sometimes.
I'll wait for Windows Mobile 7 to come before I consider a Windows phone.
Agreed. The practical use of the homescreen is awful. Unless the interface is really smooth, its not going to look good or work right and it doesnt in this. I'm totally deflated about this and it get out of this OS if i didnt need it for my job.
John,
How do you figure it's not useful?
It's way more useful than virtually any other homescreen out there.
You get access to your SMS, Email, Calendar, Contacts, Phone, Time, Notifications, Pics, all on the Main Homescreen.
That's more than can be said of the iPhone, or any other device out there for that matter.
Furthermore, it looks elegant, finger friendly, and it can have any background you want for it.
So sad, how small the crowd is. What does that say about how low the expectation is for 6.5.
They really need to take a note from Apple about how to do a demo RIGHT. The phone was dirty, and smudged looking, and they just recorded using the phone itself, so it was hard to see. They were not prepared with a proper demo unit, because there were private messages on the phone, and the guy doing the demo had dirty hands, and even a hang nail YUCK!
I prefer it like this. There is no need to make every presentation a Hollywood blockbuster. This way feels more up close and personal. People are even aloud to cut in a and questions half way through.
As a developer I'm finding 6.5 and the marketplace upgrade exciting albeit a little late.
I wonder who screamed out "Engadget.com" when the guy asked for an example website....
I was on 6.5 beta from GrooveRom at PPCgeeks, and I can say that aside from some animation issues (scrolling, minimizing), the OS feels very stable. All the apps are compatible with it as well. I haven't tried out the new IE though, since it wasn't included in that beta version of the OS.
If only they'd improve the UI, it would be a pleasure to use.
Silverlight install required? No thanks. No development tools for non-Windows platforms means I'm having nothing to do with this trojan horse. Sorry, it might be a whizzy technology but at least you pretty much know where you stand with Adobe.
now go back to your cave...
I'm not sure weither you're talking about the iPhone doing it better.
(In which case you're an idiot, but I doubt it)
But yeah, I don't like it either.
This is not an attempt at "trolling" as I don't do that. This is a very serious point. Microsoft clearly wants to get at the market currently held by Adobe Flash, which is cross-platform, and they have no financial incentive to support any platform that isn't Windows. If they provide development tools for non-Windows platforms then I'd fully support Silverlight since domination by Flash isn't good either.
I'm sorry if you do think I am trolling.
No, it's my fault, I misunderstood your message, it's just that there's been a lot of trolls around lately.
http://www.eclipse4sl.org/download/
now shut the fuck up.
But quality is better...
The guy has a point - Netscape thought Microsoft would play fair with the web, and look what happened to them.
@Chris
You know, you could have just posted the link and left out the offensive language and that would have been fine. As I have noted, the comment was not an attempt to troll and therefore your tone is quite unnecessary. However, thank you for the link and I will do some research on the product's status with Microsoft. If this is officially sanctioned (i.e. won't be blocked in the future) then I have no issue with Silverlight and will install the plug-in.
Honestly, some people are so tetchy these days. Is it really so hard to discuss issues like adults?
OK, given that Microsoft appears to be supporting the Eclipse effort I installed the plug-in for Safari and it seems to work pretty well. It managed to go wrong when switching to full-screen display once but aside from that it did what was needed and, more importantly, did it more efficiently than Adobe Flash. Flash tends to consume just over 100% of a processor on a C2D 2.33GHz system (i.e. one complete core and some of the 2nd) but Silverlight 2 stayed at about 50%.
I probably could've left out the message but where's the fun in that? It took me 5 seconds to find that link and another 20 to read it. You came back twice in an attempt to show the world how evil Microsoft is.
"trojan horse"? We are all aware of the connotations of your comments. It's a virus yadda yadda ya. The truth is, instead of looking down from your Ivory Tower hissing at everyone who goes by you should embrace new technologies. There is no need to be so negative (you could always just uninstall the thing) but your comment combined with the rather childish "Warning" from Engadget really irked me.
Chris, with all due respect I don't think you understood what I meant by "trojan horse". Microsoft has had a habit, in the past, of introducing new technologies across platforms then stopping development, or letting it slow so that a feature gap exists, so that if you want the "full" experience then you need to run Windows. This primarily affects the Macintosh platform since Linux really hasn't been around long enough to warrant Microsoft's attention. Examples include Internet Explorer (version 5 was as far as things went and then Apple needed to produce Safari) and Windows Media Player. This isn't "ivory tower" stuff, this is just what has happened in the past and, as the old saying goes, "once bitten, twice shy". Microsoft clearly has no financial incentive to help other platforms so you'll understand why we may be wary of new technologies designed to compete with existing products that are effectively platform-agnostic.
As I said, I appreciated your link but the rest of it really is unwarranted.
@Kelmon: Don't have a cow. It's just Silverlight. You don't have to watch the video if you don't want to...
BTW: Expression Studio 2 supports the Macintosh platform, if that's what you use, and it does Silverlight coding according to what it claims. It's a trial version:
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=7AE2720C-72BA-489B-ADBB-EE6F3C79066D&displaylang=en
No need to get nitpicky over something, and assume the worst from MS.
@Quikboy
That link gives me an EXE download so despite the System Requirements quoting Mac requirements I don't think that is the case.
Anyway, I'm fed up with this topic now. I have admitted that I was mistaken and I apologise for that.
super.
His accent is annoying. its so lazy. Did anyone else have difficulty understanding what he was saying? If untalented people like him are influencing product development no wonder 6.5 is lagging so far behind other platforms
While he certainly wasn't a gifted presenter I do think it a bit harsh to criticise his accent. English is undoubtably not his first language but at least he speaks it pretty well, which is more than can be said for most people whose first language is English when it comes to speaking something else. Personally, I thought it was pretty brave and he has my respect.
Warning should have said "65 long terrible minutes of video that requires 100% pre-load since player doesn't get how fast internet is".
Well maybe your internet is not as fast as you think because I am pretty sure that here it started up as soon as I pressed the play button ( 20 secs after the page was initially loaded ).
No problems here, looks like a user issue. ^_^
I cant even install silverlight on my mac, says i have to have a ppc? wtf? and i dont see a rosetta option to run it.
Silverlight is made by Microsoft. And its free.
And its made for PC.
Sorry, mate, you're out of luck. Nothing to look at anyways.
before anybody else goes on a bashing scheme against silverlight, silverlight is cross platform. Since i know there are alot of Apple fanboys here, here's the link...http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/development_tools/silverlight.html
I call BS on this on. I am using my MBP and Silverlight is in fact installed and running a heck of a lot better than I've ever expected it to. Actually it runs better than flash does ( for some reason ). Oh and it's an intel mac.
Shinigami,
Stop spreading your ignorant FUD out there as if it's factual or something.
"silverlight is cross platform."
It still doesn't work on my 64-bit Debian machine.
It doesnt work on my Altair 8800 either. Cross platfom...pfft!
Here you go Andir: http://www.mono-project.com/Moonlight
See they even work on an implementation for your hobby OS :)
@digitallysick
I'm not seeing that issue. The plug-in works, following a restart of Safari, on a C2D MacBook Pro and I've not seen any messages suggesting it is PowerPC only (the opposite is more likely).
Microsoft isn't making Moonlight. Sorry.
And Besides. Moonlight doesn't have the codecs needed to play video for Silverlight 2+ so it still fails.
One other thing that Apple has set a high standard on, presentations. It was very difficult to take them seriously with that horrible presentation.
If I were Microsoft, I would be embarrased. That presentation was terrible.
Absolutely! This is quite possibly the worst product presentation I have ever seen in my life. So maybe these guys are programming whizzes but they do a terrible job at presenting anything.
Of and FYI MS NOONE uses 10 phones ouside of the product testing lab. Also when you loose your phone you'd be pretty upset about loosing it and finding your backup would be small potatoes. Also most people don't use their point finger to tap on the screen but the thumb and I can assure you that that Chinese guy has small fingers. In fact he has fingers pretty much like a girl and there is a standardized chart for hand sizes so there is no excuse for not knowing it. It's about time MS that you focus a little bit more on product design and maybe move around the people in the company cause if this is the best you can come up with you're pretty much dead in the mobile water. For crying out loud Samsung does a way better job than the MS designers!
At least we can look forward to HTC fixing and innovating the os beyond Microsoft's narrow vision.
MyPhone, damn that's useful!
(Oh, and in before, MyPhone souwnds liek iPhone!)
But seriously, I'd love having an instant back-up of my contacts, texts, photo's, video's and music!
Have you heard of MyDocuments? My Computer? What do you expect phone to rhyme with? Aren't they phones ? So please save your Apple trolling please...
And Mobile Me sounds... liek Windows Me!
People, people, I was being sarcastic, and there really were people who said that the last time Engadget posted news about MyPhone...
No wonder that guy's name is "UI"
They did a hell of a job to improve WinMo. But the biggest problem is (IMO) they still don't treat WinMo device as a phone, they treat it as a PDA with a GSM module as a bonus. An unwanted bonus.
Would have been much better if phone features had a priority over "software marketplace".
A phone isn't a place to make money, so M$ shouldn't treat it this way. IMO.
Are you serious? Try telling that to Apple first then come back here!
They didn't remove the hex interface... It's still there without a border. Now it just looks like the icons are all out of line.
but if you look at it from the side ...
yeah really dude they must think that their whole customer base is brain dead. Look at it this way, if you do buy a device from Samsung or Toshiba or pretty much anyone but HTC you will get the same OS but a different interface since none of those manufacturers actually like MS' idea or beauty and practicality.
I wish they had kept the borders in, if for nothing but style.
cg0def,
What do you mean you'll get a different UI if you buy from anyone besides HTC? Not only does HTC provide a different UI, but it's widely regarded as one of the best UIs for WinMo. Even better, HTC phones have a very vibrant hacking community. If you buy an HTC phone and are willing to put in a little bit of work, you can make that phone look, run, and feel exactly the way you want it to.
The applause is directly proportional to how good the 6.5 code is.
BAD.
I like the UI of the Lock screen, and Start screen. I do. It's really good. But other than that, its 2009 and everything is inexplicably cluttery and not-so-smooth. Seeing how high the specs of the phone is, this is definitely BAD CODING. Almost all smartphone OSes are much smoother than that, not just the iPhone's OSX, but Android and webOS as well.
He claims "you don't have to use the teeeny weeeny scroll bar anymore", but to close (or let's get real; MINIMIZE) an app, you need to aim for that teeenier weeenier "X" in the corner. Same ol'WM.
It's just not worth it, for me. And finally resistive screens make the experience even worse.
and the honeycomb scroller is smoother JUST BECAUSE they dropped frames out of the final rendering engine. Which makes it move faster but drops frames. It's also not intelligent enough to continue moving with reasonable momentum, so they made it stop all together. Again: BAD CODING and a team incapable of problem solving.
The suckiness of WM really has deep roots.
Your mother probably hates you
@ pimping
yeah that totally debunked what I said. Well done.
Dude go back under your bridge or something. WTF are you talking about? Since when does "dropped frames out of the final rendering engine" (what ever that means lol) makes something faster/smoother etc & no momemtum?
Your parents shouldn't let you have acces to the internet.
Moron. The less frames there are to render the faster it appears.
This was supposed to be a reply to the crack head Tarex..
maybe if you get your fanboi head out of the sand, and take a more objective look at this OS, you'll get it.
Looks pretty damned sweet.
I've now reconsidered avoiding WM 6.5's native interface in favor of TF3D entirely, but now I guess I will have to install 2nd Today to get them both to co-exist side by side.
Looks beautiful, and I can't wait to test this out on a Touch Pro 2 in the upcoming months.
FU**** SH*T WinMO! Somebody PLEASE make me a CAMERALESS CDMA WINMO! Ive been drooling over 6.1, now 6.5; while glancing down at my P.O.S blackberry- Ughhhhh.
Comon HTC. Palm. Samsung. Motorola. Anyone out there listening???? Last official CDMA windows mobile cameraless was the treo 600! WTF mate. WE ARE DUE FOR ANOTHER!
::chucks bb at wall::
You're drooling? Over WinMob? Wow.
I'm not all that impressed that Windows Mobile 6.5 only supports resistive touch displays. I am disappointed with my WM HTC phone at the moment and I currently do not hold high hopes for Microsoft in the mobile market. I still think my old Palm treo 650 kicked ass and I hope Palm is as successful with the pre as everyone predicts.
Resistive screens don't crack. Resistive screens use a stylus.
Just those two alone make them better.
People who say capacitive screens are better are just using code language for 'Iphone is the the greatest!'
Having used both the Iphone and touch, I can say that the pure touch-based experience has yet to arrive.
Anyone who thinks what Apple has to offer is the be-all and end-all of the UI experience really hasn't tried out enough devices yet.
It's crap, just like most other UIs out there. Winmo is also crap, but atleast they give you the option to use a damn stylus should you choose to.
With this new UI, you have to use the stylus less for tasks that you need pretty much every time you use the phone. You still get winmo, which is an open OS that has free apps galore out there, and you get to sync your device pretty damn easily to your computer.
People who immediately write off 6.5 as crap are really just biased when it comes down to it. It's still just a beta and none of you have ever tried it out.
@Will:
Capacitive support most likely will come with 7.0.
I don't think they would redesign the entire OS to support capacitive in a point release
They put on a new shade of lipstick for that pig. Forget the cosmetics. Forget the plastic surgery. Put a bag over its head. Wait for WinMo 7.
So, it looks like a honeycomb, just without the borders.
Is each column in the honeycomb scrollable? I thought it would have been nice to have scrollable columns in the honeycombs, and as you scroll, you can 'click' the cells into place for whatever you're working on for the next few moments.
Gad... that video was a waste of time.
I can't imagine that a company like Microsoft make so bad presentations. EW!
I still love how the "task manager" is the MAIN app of Windows Mobile. Its like Windows 98.
The task manager is not the "main app" whatever that means. But at least WinMo can manage multiple tasks! Something that the geniuses at Apple can't seem to figure out.
Why, god, why does this video have to be Silverlight?!
:(
It won't kill you, will it?