Dell's first cellphone prototypes said to "lack differentiation"
By Darren Murph 
posted Mar 21st 2009 10:33AM
posted Mar 21st 2009 10:33AM
Remember when AT&T's Ralph de la Vega got caught up in the middle of mixed words over a supposed Dell smartphone at MWC? Turns out, maybe that cat has seen a cellular prototype from the labs of Round Rock, but given his displeasure with it, he brushed it off as no huge deal. A fresh report from Barron's asserts that Dell actually has shown off both WinMo and Android-powered handsets to an undisclosed amount of mobile carriers, but essentially, everyone met them with a gigantic "meh" and simply stated that the attempts "lacked differentiation." That said, it seems that Dell's not being deterred by the naysayers, and it has even led some analysts to guess that the company may pick up one of those other struggling cellphone makers in order to get some of that "differentiating" juice. It strikes us sort of funny, though -- since when did differentiation really matter to carriers?[Via mocoNews]
Is it going to have an ugly back side? and cost more than Apple's phone?
Dell, come June say Hello to the new Resolutionary new OLED iPhone (From Apple)
@ iGoon#2
The new iPhone won't have OLED for 2 reasons
1 - it's too expensive and will add to the cost of an already expensive phone putting it either just or way out of the average consumers price brackets, and since the iPhone really doesn't have a business following they won't do that
2 - the average consumer still doesn't know, or care about OLED technology. Whenever I show it to someone on my S9 the reaction is always the same 'wow' will they then go look for it themselves? No, and something the average consumer doesn't know or care about isn't a great update.
Well, it won't be as ugly as your backside.
OH SNAP!
I beg to differ about what the average consumer know and how much that affects Apple's decisions. As a matter of fact the first time LED TFTs were introduced hardly anyone had heard about them and practically noone cared. There was a lot of talk about OLED but virtually none about LED in TFT displays.
The only thing that will stop Apple from using OLED in the next revision of the iPhone will be cost and the ability of OLED to produce the same quality as lcd currently does. The 2nd is not really an issue provided that you don't mind paying more. Oh and in case you didn't know Sony has been using OLED screens in the Walkman series for over an year now. ( not on all models ) so apparently the cost is not extremely high.
I don't know why, but when Apple begin using a technology in their phones, people start making a big deal about it. Yes, SE has had OLED in their phones for awhile now, but who actually knows that other than a small percentage of tech nerds?
Forget the fact that the iPhone wasn't even close to the first touch phone. Even a Handspring Treo from 2000 was a touchscreen phone, and with an icon layout just like the iPhone. However, mass consumers only wanted a touch phone after the iPhone was released. Same with touchscreen mp3 players. Most of these people don't even know why they started wanting a touchscreen mp3 player or mobile. All they know is that the iPhone is cool, and they want an iPhone or something similar.
So yes, Apple may use OLED screens even before people know what they are.
That's exactly what pisses me off the most. The fucking morons don't pay attention for a goddamned decade, then all of a sudden see the messiah. Touch screens are not new, phones with touch screens are not new, icons are not new, multiple desktops are not new, decent looking phones with all of the above are not new. Yet, every fucking Apple Goon will try to convince you of the stupidity of which they've allowed themselves to be convinced ... that Apple invented something. Fucking ridiculous and nauseating. I have no probem praising a company that actually invents something, but I loathe companies that use propaganda and misinformation to pretend they actually invented something when they didn't.
By the way, that Dell Phone looks stupid. Like an ancient Ipaq.
@Kwikit
Why do you Apple haters pretend like you don't understand why the iPhone was revolutionary? The iPhone was revolutionary because it demonstrated MULTI-TOUCH technology, not just because it had a touch screen. The iPhone was the first mobile device with multi-touch.
Most touch screen phones up to that point used resistive technology rather than capacitive technology, because of so many companies wanted their phones or PDA to work with a stylus. This made all the difference between the iPhone and prior touch phones.
@ cg0def
The cost may not be extremely high, but it is prohibitive - especially once you get above ~2" screens. AMOLED is becoming popular in Japanese phones, but compared to western phones they are in another league and are targeting a market where consumers have a much higher then average knowledge of technology. And only now are we seeing phones trickling out onto the market with AMOLED technology in the west (mostly from Samsung), but none of those phones make it too high on the 'affordability' list.
All I'm saying is, that in an economic recession a bad choice is to improve your device by adding something to it which the consumer isn't necessarily demanding. Once they see it in person they may want it but the extra up front cost for the device would probably be enough to put consumers off an already expensive phone tied to an already expensive contract, Apples time would be better served adding/fixing features that the average consumer will:
a) be aware that the feature does/doesn't appear in competitors phone whilst being vaguely aware of what it is and how it makes their phone easier to use/more powerful/etc.
b) be able to afford - after it's been added to the phone.
In a healthy market companies regularly innovate by adding features consumers may not necessarily be demanding and some do exceptionally well and features that were once thought of as fads have caught on and now appear in almost all phones. But an economic recession means companies are a LOT more careful about what they add even if they are sitting on a huge pile of money.
@ Gnormie:
"the iPhone really doesn't have a business following"
Absolutely false. Here is some quick proof for you. This is what JD Power found:
"Phone Manufacturer Apple Ranks Highest in Business Wireless Smartphone Customer Satisfaction"
http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?id=2008240
"JD Power is tops among business users"
http://www.intomobile.com/2008/11/06/jd-power-iphone-is-tops-among-business-users.html
And 17 million iPhone 3G users will probably have to disagree with you about price. World share of the iPhone is about 10% while WinMo is 12%. The App store has more apps than WinMo now. In roughly 2 years and 8 months respectively, Apple has done what WinMo took more than a decade to do.
Dell will buy moto wireless division.
moto's got nothing. Buying an unknown upstart or just starting from scratch would be better.
I say go for it, Dell. The mobile market is where the money's at and so far it's been recession-proof.
So why are sales down by more than 50% for Sony Ericsson.
The mobile market is forecast to slide quite a bit this year. Granted, they're cheaper than computers, but it's even easier to keep your old phone for another year than it is to keep an outdated computer for another year.
@shattered ice
the reason Sony Ericsson's sales are down 50% is because they make a crappy product!
all of their low end to mid level phones have quirky problems ie. the w580s keys crack after extended use. the w350's flapper doesn't register opening 10% of the time, the w810 used to have the White screen of death- and most of their phones are are subject to these kinds of problems- people no longer want to spend their money on a crappy product
I have to agree. SE used to create good phones, but their phones haven't gotten much better featurewise for years, with the w910 I own now actually running slower than its predecessor the w850. my w850 is also the only SE phone I ever owned that never froze up, restarted randomly etc.
I have trouble with the w910. it freezes completely for a few seconds randomly, or when a phonecall comes in.
They've gotten crap, Bring back the SE that bought us the T610!
The reason the phone markets doing badly is because in times of recession people view their phone as a luxury - meaning that as long as their current one continues working they are very unlikely to go out and buy a new one.
I would say the opposite. Dell are only entering the market because they feel forced to compete with Apple on all fronts. If they don't have anything unique to bring to the market (which, given the content of this article and the fact that they're only interested in mobiles because Apple is, they don't), they should stay away from the bait and leave the mobile market alone.
Otherwise you end up with the Zune or DJ Ditty.
How DARE you utter Zune and DJ Ditty in the same sentence!
@KarlW
Where do you get that idea from? Seriously? How does Dell feel 'forced' to compete with Apple? If it was such they would be competing with Apples staple products (the iPods) and not their laptops/desktops business. To me this move seems quite obvious for Dell - a company that caters for businesses primarily with consumer products almost an afterthought (with Apple doing the exact opposite and going for the consumer market primarily and business secondarily), and releasing a WinMo phone would seem pretty par for the course.
@Gnormie:
Dell already tried to compete with the iPod, and as I said, only entered the market because they felt forced to compete with Apple, and the move was an entire failure. Microsoft also feel like they have to compete with Apple on all fronts, which is why they went with the Zune instead of their PlaysForSure media players. The Zune's done better than Dell's attempt, but it's certainly not been a success in business terms.
A computer manufacturer moving in to the mobile phone business is NOT par for the course. At least, it wasn't until Apple did it. Now OEMs that feel like that they have to compete with Apple (Asus, Acer, Dell...etc) are trying to move in to that area. The difference is that Apple move in to markets when they've got a product that does something new, so they've got something to bring to the market. Dell, as evidenced by this article, move in to markets despite having absolutely no original ideas or anything to bring to the market. If they want to start emulating Apple's successes, they've got to learn that the difference isn't which markets you're in, it's what you bring to those markets. Apple bring loads and gets lots of success. Dell brought something new to the PC market when it was founded, so it's limited to that market.
@KarlW
So according to your view Apple will not be going into the netbook market or the tablet/e-reader market then?
Apple jumped on the mobile market not because they had something new but because the smart phone market was picking up rapidly with the developments in wireless technologies and gps. It would be stupid not to move into this market if you have the resources.
Dell are making this same decision same as Apple did. Apple just seems to have more foresight than Dell.
It could be said Apple are forced to compete with Microsoft on the smartphone front as microsoft has had windows mobile for years before iphone was even thought about.
"since when did differentiation really matter to carriers?"
Since the iPhone was announced to be an ATT exclusive.
Hey Dell, wanna make a big splash like the fruit guys did with the iPhone? 3 words, FLEXIBLE OLED DEVICE! Its no longer enough to just come in. You have to come in BIG! Even long-timers like Palm understand this (i.e.Pre) The game is oneupsmanship now. Just sayin...
Sounds to me like some hedge fund is trying to pump Palm by using the keyword "differentiation" and repeating the oft-repeated "Palm is an acquisition target" rumor.
Can you imagine DELL buying PALM for at LEAST $1.5 billion dollars to get a SINGLE =untested= device!? That would show some real smarts, huh? Sort of like Sprint buying Nextel.
sprint buying nextel is the only reason sprint exists today. Doesn't matter how badly they're doing, they still exist.
dell's PDA, mp3 were BULKIER than normal though
well they are probably facing the same problems with the cell phone design. The PDAs were more or less a *reference* design and I think the lack differentiation is actually a nice way of saying that a carrier is not going to endorse your product. Doesn't necessarily mean that it's bad or ugly but it probably has very little to offer in both innovation and profit margins. Carriers never pick products like that.
Sounds like they were similar to (or even worse than) the Acer smartphones. I'm glad they declined them, even though I was extremely excited with the Dell Android phone rumor.
Rumor has it the Dell phones were HTC behind the scenes.
BTW - even if carriers DID say "meh" it makes TOTAL sense for Dell to continue to deal with very-experienced HTC until they get it right - WAY less costly than trying to BUY Palm or Motorola's phone side.
[and since Dell is ALREADY 'late to the party" there is NO urgent need to buy a company to get in quick - they CAN take their time to get it right]
yeah... well if they're planning to make their own Dell Android phone, I hope they can take this G3 design I made....
http://www.new.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=6198928&l=7143f45a93&id=548065454
Wait, Dell is trying to create something different than the current standard design for high-end mobile phones, and you're trying to paint it as a BAD thing?
Read the article: it seems Dell made a cell phone, but absolutely DIDN'T create something different, and now they have to go back to the drawing board.
If Dell tried to create something different to begin with, they probably wouldn't be in this mess.
Yeah, that's my point.
Rather than just trying to rush a product onto market to compete with other companies, Dell have decided to take a step back and try a different approach.
And this is being presented as a BAD thing.
its not dell that is stepping back, its the mobile companies that are forcing dell back. Dell would be perfectly happy releasing a POS that only sells by brand name.
"perfectly happy releasing a POS that only sells by brand name."
*cough*original iPhone*cough*
Read this very slowly. The carriers are not interested in this phone because of a LACK of differentiation. The phone is NO DIFFERENT than any other WM phone out there.
Dell computers have always been cheap disposable computers with shaddy service. Why would anyone expect their phones to be any better. It will have cheap parts and probably run like garbage. I wish dell would just burn.
They were pretty thin-margin there for a while but I think they have come out with a lot of improvements lately. Their notebooks are quite nice these days and I just picked up an XPS laptop for my girlfriend on the Dell outlet site recently. It's a decent machine and very light. Affordable as well. Their Studio line is also pretty nice. I think they get a bad rap because of all the bargain-basement models rolled out by corporate IT departments that people were forced to use at work long past their usefulness.
The number of systems I have dealt with and having had to take up to 3 months for dell to finally replace one has me deterred from every shopping with them again. They have dug their own hole in the ground. I just hope some day they will flop. I don't think the build quality is any better then they use to be unless buying one of their systems the have from another manufacturer they had bought out. Tech support has always been bad and still is.
So just put it out as an unlocked phone and let us customers buy it if we like it. You know, like Europe.
You don't know squat about Europe, it seems.
Fortunately I'm an experienced engadget reader and can help dell out, so here goes: Encrust the damn thing with swarovski crystals.
Happy to have fixed your differentiation issues.
Why is Dell always trying to follow Apple? First, they tried retail stores. That didn't work. Next, they crashed and burned with mp3 players. And now cellphones.
If you want to know what will Dell do next, look at Apple.
I don't think it's as simple as that. Dell were a reasonably big player in the Pocket PC market up until the point were Pocket PCs morphed into Windows Mobile phones. I think Dell are trying to get back into that game rather than copying Apple.
Yes, because Apple invented computer retail stores and MP3 players.
I say, take the sexy from the Adamo, and put it in a smartphone
Dell...buying SE?
Please, no.
They should give the designing task to the XPS and Studio team.
today i got told by the people i was pitching to that my phone lacked differentiation. i was pitching to cell phone carriers that have been selling the same line of sony ericson walkmans and RAZR knockoffs for years. FML
Dell, if the carries brushed you off, just sell it unlocked.
What's with Dell jumping into cellphones now... I know they had some WinMo bricks in the past, but I thought they'd put that in the past for good.
Some people are saying they're trying to copy Apple - first the Adamo (Air copy), and now this.
Well, I think Dell should just stick to what they're good at, which is pumping out cheap computers (laptops, netbooks included) for the mass market. Overall PC market is going down, but that's not necessarily Dell's fault. It's the economy! I'm sure consumers will start buying when the economy lightens up (if their product is good, obviously).
If they really wanted to do something, they'd improve their customer service. O, and invest heavily on cloud computing and utility computing, because that's the way of the future.
When I worked for Dell and as a tech support rep, we had an exec come through that had The Fly (thats its codename). He had an early prototype and it looked amazing for its time (back in 2006/2007) Ran an early version of WinMo 6, Nice VGA touch screen, round corners and a keyboard (overallthink HTC Touch Pro). Nowadays it just looks generic by todays phones, but back then it was awesome.
Dell should make a phone from a functionality stand point, take notes from japan dell!
Carriers always screw up good smartphones. AT&T should talk. Their 3G and voice networks are crap.
Dell should write their own mobile operating system with strange UI paradigms, weird icons and random colors. That would easily get them into the "differenciated" carrier lineup.
"Dude, you're gettin' an iDell!"
1. I don't think Dell should even be in this market.
2. If they want to, they better go with Android. It makes more sense than waiting for Windows Mobile 7 to come out.
"and it has even led some analysts to guess that the company may pick up one of those other struggling cellphone makers in order to get some of that "differentiating" juice. It strikes us sort of funny, though -- since when did differentiation really matter to carriers?"
Palm is desperate to be taken over, with quarter after quarter of massive losses. Dell to the rescue? Hilarious!!
Oh, that will make SJ soooo happy...
Meh. And you are telling me something new from any other new product that Dell has released?. All of Dell's printers are just rebranded Lexmarks....until just recently. dell creates a something boring and bland when they jump into the market to establish themselves. Then they start tweaking their stuff later on.
Sorry to say this , but dell phone would tank on att. Recently att store manager stated that iPhone continues to be highest selling handset in USA for att. In other words if priced at same price ,$99 . What handset would an att customer choose dell phone or iPhone.,??
Just look at lg vu only $49, but yet people choose iPhone for $199. When will we see the true iphonekiller , that will cause iPhone sales to plummet ???when????
I respect dell, but smartphones . You better off not overstepping your boundaries. Stick to making $500 laptops. So far no brand has had extreme success besides apple in making a computer and a successful smartphone,. Am I wrong,,?
Samsung? Sony? Not sure but these companies have sold far more phones and models in one quarter than Apple has sold since it released the iPhone..
I see that I was wrong about Sony or Samsung... I thought thei smartphone business was more robust than it is or has been. My apologies...
Samsung's Omnia has been a huge success in Europe!
nice for share :D
-------------------------------------
Download Free Ringtones , Free Wallpaper , Free Games , Free Themes
--> Download Here !!!
www.mobilejavara.com
Who the hell do they have for there focus group, its so general thats why there lost and if its not that they might have alot of old school people at dell, meaning they should consider hiring the next generation of young talent at dell
There are mindless fanboys on both sides of the fence (Apple / Dell). I am a long time Dell corporate employee and I will tell you one thing... Dell is comprised of the biggest Apple fanboys. They cannot wait for the next Apple computer to ship so they can try to emulate Apple. But we (they) were thrown a huge curveball when Apple released the iPhone because that is not a market they were in. We (They) could not wait for the iPhone presentation to finish so we could brainstorm the next Dell product DellPhone (not the name of course). Since that day back in 2007 they had been feverishly trying to duplicate the iPhone's functionality, but there was a HUGE problem... the OS. Dell does not make an OS so they had to rely on Microsoft. Microsoft believed (by their true visionaries) that the iPhone was a gimmick and it would flop. I mean, Steve Balmer said it himself "I can't afford an iPhone". Boy that guy continues to show that he is no visionary, he is just like Michael Dell, great at operations.
Getting back to the topic. Apple does well because like it or not, they innovate. Dell reinvented the PC purchasing model way back when and became very successful. Apple innovates design of their PCs and their OS and continues to have success. Apple enters stale markets and livens them up with fresh ideas and great products. While Dell prefers to take a real business "safe" approach to new markets. Their motto should be "we'll enter a new market and duplicate others' hard work and effort, and sell at bargain basement prices to get marketshare." That's the American business way. The awesome thing is the fact that the american consumer is changing and rewarding the innovators and the companies that are willing to take a chance on Design and ease of use.
When the iphone first came out it was far too expensive that is why it has decreased in price since initial launch. At Launch price it was selling to well so Balmer's comment was spot on.
*wasn't selling too well