Dell's first cellphone prototypes said to "lack differentiation"

Remember when AT&T's Ralph de la Vega got caught up in the middle of mixed words over a supposed Dell smartphone at MWC? Turns out, maybe that cat has seen a cellular prototype from the labs of Round Rock, but given his displeasure with it, he brushed it off as no huge deal. A fresh report from Barron's asserts that Dell actually has shown off both WinMo and Android-powered handsets to an undisclosed amount of mobile carriers, but essentially, everyone met them with a gigantic "meh" and simply stated that the attempts "lacked differentiation." That said, it seems that Dell's not being deterred by the naysayers, and it has even led some analysts to guess that the company may pick up one of those other struggling cellphone makers in order to get some of that "differentiating" juice. It strikes us sort of funny, though -- since when did differentiation really matter to carriers?

[Via mocoNews]

[Roman @ Mar 21st 2009 10:41AM]

Is it going to have an ugly back side? and cost more than Apple's phone?

[iGoon#2 @ Mar 21st 2009 11:46AM]

Dell, come June say Hello to the new Resolutionary new OLED iPhone (From Apple)

[Gnormie @ Mar 21st 2009 1:03PM]

@ iGoon#2
The new iPhone won't have OLED for 2 reasons
1 - it's too expensive and will add to the cost of an already expensive phone putting it either just or way out of the average consumers price brackets, and since the iPhone really doesn't have a business following they won't do that
2 - the average consumer still doesn't know, or care about OLED technology. Whenever I show it to someone on my S9 the reaction is always the same 'wow' will they then go look for it themselves? No, and something the average consumer doesn't know or care about isn't a great update.

[bill cant fart @ Mar 21st 2009 1:08PM]

Well, it won't be as ugly as your backside.

OH SNAP!

[cg0def @ Mar 21st 2009 2:00PM]

I beg to differ about what the average consumer know and how much that affects Apple's decisions. As a matter of fact the first time LED TFTs were introduced hardly anyone had heard about them and practically noone cared. There was a lot of talk about OLED but virtually none about LED in TFT displays.
The only thing that will stop Apple from using OLED in the next revision of the iPhone will be cost and the ability of OLED to produce the same quality as lcd currently does. The 2nd is not really an issue provided that you don't mind paying more. Oh and in case you didn't know Sony has been using OLED screens in the Walkman series for over an year now. ( not on all models ) so apparently the cost is not extremely high.

[Ian @ Mar 21st 2009 4:15PM]

I don't know why, but when Apple begin using a technology in their phones, people start making a big deal about it. Yes, SE has had OLED in their phones for awhile now, but who actually knows that other than a small percentage of tech nerds?

Forget the fact that the iPhone wasn't even close to the first touch phone. Even a Handspring Treo from 2000 was a touchscreen phone, and with an icon layout just like the iPhone. However, mass consumers only wanted a touch phone after the iPhone was released. Same with touchscreen mp3 players. Most of these people don't even know why they started wanting a touchscreen mp3 player or mobile. All they know is that the iPhone is cool, and they want an iPhone or something similar.

So yes, Apple may use OLED screens even before people know what they are.

[Kwikit @ Mar 21st 2009 5:29PM]

That's exactly what pisses me off the most. The fucking morons don't pay attention for a goddamned decade, then all of a sudden see the messiah. Touch screens are not new, phones with touch screens are not new, icons are not new, multiple desktops are not new, decent looking phones with all of the above are not new. Yet, every fucking Apple Goon will try to convince you of the stupidity of which they've allowed themselves to be convinced ... that Apple invented something. Fucking ridiculous and nauseating. I have no probem praising a company that actually invents something, but I loathe companies that use propaganda and misinformation to pretend they actually invented something when they didn't.

By the way, that Dell Phone looks stupid. Like an ancient Ipaq.

[P.A.C Man @ Mar 21st 2009 6:12PM]

@Kwikit

Why do you Apple haters pretend like you don't understand why the iPhone was revolutionary? The iPhone was revolutionary because it demonstrated MULTI-TOUCH technology, not just because it had a touch screen. The iPhone was the first mobile device with multi-touch.

Most touch screen phones up to that point used resistive technology rather than capacitive technology, because of so many companies wanted their phones or PDA to work with a stylus. This made all the difference between the iPhone and prior touch phones.

[Gnormie @ Mar 21st 2009 6:32PM]

@ cg0def
The cost may not be extremely high, but it is prohibitive - especially once you get above ~2" screens. AMOLED is becoming popular in Japanese phones, but compared to western phones they are in another league and are targeting a market where consumers have a much higher then average knowledge of technology. And only now are we seeing phones trickling out onto the market with AMOLED technology in the west (mostly from Samsung), but none of those phones make it too high on the 'affordability' list.

All I'm saying is, that in an economic recession a bad choice is to improve your device by adding something to it which the consumer isn't necessarily demanding. Once they see it in person they may want it but the extra up front cost for the device would probably be enough to put consumers off an already expensive phone tied to an already expensive contract, Apples time would be better served adding/fixing features that the average consumer will:
a) be aware that the feature does/doesn't appear in competitors phone whilst being vaguely aware of what it is and how it makes their phone easier to use/more powerful/etc.
b) be able to afford - after it's been added to the phone.

In a healthy market companies regularly innovate by adding features consumers may not necessarily be demanding and some do exceptionally well and features that were once thought of as fads have caught on and now appear in almost all phones. But an economic recession means companies are a LOT more careful about what they add even if they are sitting on a huge pile of money.

[FoxKenji @ Mar 22nd 2009 4:59PM]

@ Gnormie:

"the iPhone really doesn't have a business following"

Absolutely false. Here is some quick proof for you. This is what JD Power found:
"Phone Manufacturer Apple Ranks Highest in Business Wireless Smartphone Customer Satisfaction"

http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?id=2008240


"JD Power is tops among business users"
http://www.intomobile.com/2008/11/06/jd-power-iphone-is-tops-among-business-users.html

And 17 million iPhone 3G users will probably have to disagree with you about price. World share of the iPhone is about 10% while WinMo is 12%. The App store has more apps than WinMo now. In roughly 2 years and 8 months respectively, Apple has done what WinMo took more than a decade to do.

[Nastro @ Mar 21st 2009 10:44AM]

Dell will buy moto wireless division.

[Ghen @ Mar 21st 2009 12:12PM]

moto's got nothing. Buying an unknown upstart or just starting from scratch would be better.

[AJ in the East Bay @ Mar 21st 2009 10:45AM]

I say go for it, Dell. The mobile market is where the money's at and so far it's been recession-proof.

[Shattered Ice @ Mar 21st 2009 11:29AM]

So why are sales down by more than 50% for Sony Ericsson.

[UnixSystemsEngineer @ Mar 21st 2009 11:44AM]

The mobile market is forecast to slide quite a bit this year. Granted, they're cheaper than computers, but it's even easier to keep your old phone for another year than it is to keep an outdated computer for another year.

[murmermer @ Mar 21st 2009 12:22PM]

@shattered ice

the reason Sony Ericsson's sales are down 50% is because they make a crappy product!

all of their low end to mid level phones have quirky problems ie. the w580s keys crack after extended use. the w350's flapper doesn't register opening 10% of the time, the w810 used to have the White screen of death- and most of their phones are are subject to these kinds of problems- people no longer want to spend their money on a crappy product

[DamienS Sturdy @ Mar 21st 2009 12:50PM]

I have to agree. SE used to create good phones, but their phones haven't gotten much better featurewise for years, with the w910 I own now actually running slower than its predecessor the w850. my w850 is also the only SE phone I ever owned that never froze up, restarted randomly etc.

I have trouble with the w910. it freezes completely for a few seconds randomly, or when a phonecall comes in.

They've gotten crap, Bring back the SE that bought us the T610!

[Gnormie @ Mar 21st 2009 1:04PM]

The reason the phone markets doing badly is because in times of recession people view their phone as a luxury - meaning that as long as their current one continues working they are very unlikely to go out and buy a new one.

[KarlW @ Mar 21st 2009 2:06PM]

I would say the opposite. Dell are only entering the market because they feel forced to compete with Apple on all fronts. If they don't have anything unique to bring to the market (which, given the content of this article and the fact that they're only interested in mobiles because Apple is, they don't), they should stay away from the bait and leave the mobile market alone.

Otherwise you end up with the Zune or DJ Ditty.

[Jake B @ Mar 21st 2009 3:05PM]

How DARE you utter Zune and DJ Ditty in the same sentence!

[Gnormie @ Mar 21st 2009 8:13PM]

@KarlW
Where do you get that idea from? Seriously? How does Dell feel 'forced' to compete with Apple? If it was such they would be competing with Apples staple products (the iPods) and not their laptops/desktops business. To me this move seems quite obvious for Dell - a company that caters for businesses primarily with consumer products almost an afterthought (with Apple doing the exact opposite and going for the consumer market primarily and business secondarily), and releasing a WinMo phone would seem pretty par for the course.

[KarlW @ Mar 22nd 2009 1:10AM]

@Gnormie:

Dell already tried to compete with the iPod, and as I said, only entered the market because they felt forced to compete with Apple, and the move was an entire failure. Microsoft also feel like they have to compete with Apple on all fronts, which is why they went with the Zune instead of their PlaysForSure media players. The Zune's done better than Dell's attempt, but it's certainly not been a success in business terms.

A computer manufacturer moving in to the mobile phone business is NOT par for the course. At least, it wasn't until Apple did it. Now OEMs that feel like that they have to compete with Apple (Asus, Acer, Dell...etc) are trying to move in to that area. The difference is that Apple move in to markets when they've got a product that does something new, so they've got something to bring to the market. Dell, as evidenced by this article, move in to markets despite having absolutely no original ideas or anything to bring to the market. If they want to start emulating Apple's successes, they've got to learn that the difference isn't which markets you're in, it's what you bring to those markets. Apple bring loads and gets lots of success. Dell brought something new to the PC market when it was founded, so it's limited to that market.

[poke @ Mar 23rd 2009 5:29AM]

@KarlW

So according to your view Apple will not be going into the netbook market or the tablet/e-reader market then?

Apple jumped on the mobile market not because they had something new but because the smart phone market was picking up rapidly with the developments in wireless technologies and gps. It would be stupid not to move into this market if you have the resources.

Dell are making this same decision same as Apple did. Apple just seems to have more foresight than Dell.

It could be said Apple are forced to compete with Microsoft on the smartphone front as microsoft has had windows mobile for years before iphone was even thought about.

[DallasM @ Mar 21st 2009 10:55AM]

"since when did differentiation really matter to carriers?"

Since the iPhone was announced to be an ATT exclusive.

[Frankenstein Black @ Mar 21st 2009 10:59AM]

Hey Dell, wanna make a big splash like the fruit guys did with the iPhone? 3 words, FLEXIBLE OLED DEVICE! Its no longer enough to just come in. You have to come in BIG! Even long-timers like Palm understand this (i.e.Pre) The game is oneupsmanship now. Just sayin...

[Freakin Ijit @ Mar 21st 2009 10:59AM]

Sounds to me like some hedge fund is trying to pump Palm by using the keyword "differentiation" and repeating the oft-repeated "Palm is an acquisition target" rumor.

Can you imagine DELL buying PALM for at LEAST $1.5 billion dollars to get a SINGLE =untested= device!? That would show some real smarts, huh? Sort of like Sprint buying Nextel.

[Ghen @ Mar 21st 2009 12:14PM]

sprint buying nextel is the only reason sprint exists today. Doesn't matter how badly they're doing, they still exist.

[htd @ Mar 21st 2009 11:01AM]

dell's PDA, mp3 were BULKIER than normal though

[cg0def @ Mar 21st 2009 2:05PM]

well they are probably facing the same problems with the cell phone design. The PDAs were more or less a *reference* design and I think the lack differentiation is actually a nice way of saying that a carrier is not going to endorse your product. Doesn't necessarily mean that it's bad or ugly but it probably has very little to offer in both innovation and profit margins. Carriers never pick products like that.

[TareX @ Mar 21st 2009 11:13AM]

Sounds like they were similar to (or even worse than) the Acer smartphones. I'm glad they declined them, even though I was extremely excited with the Dell Android phone rumor.

[Freakin Ijit @ Mar 21st 2009 11:24AM]

Rumor has it the Dell phones were HTC behind the scenes.

BTW - even if carriers DID say "meh" it makes TOTAL sense for Dell to continue to deal with very-experienced HTC until they get it right - WAY less costly than trying to BUY Palm or Motorola's phone side.

[and since Dell is ALREADY 'late to the party" there is NO urgent need to buy a company to get in quick - they CAN take their time to get it right]

[TareX @ Mar 21st 2009 11:29AM]

yeah... well if they're planning to make their own Dell Android phone, I hope they can take this G3 design I made....

http://www.new.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=6198928&l=7143f45a93&id=548065454

[CJ @ Mar 21st 2009 11:17AM]

Wait, Dell is trying to create something different than the current standard design for high-end mobile phones, and you're trying to paint it as a BAD thing?

[Mike @ Mar 21st 2009 11:59AM]

Read the article: it seems Dell made a cell phone, but absolutely DIDN'T create something different, and now they have to go back to the drawing board.

If Dell tried to create something different to begin with, they probably wouldn't be in this mess.

[CJ @ Mar 21st 2009 12:03PM]

Yeah, that's my point.

Rather than just trying to rush a product onto market to compete with other companies, Dell have decided to take a step back and try a different approach.

And this is being presented as a BAD thing.

[Ghen @ Mar 21st 2009 12:17PM]

its not dell that is stepping back, its the mobile companies that are forcing dell back. Dell would be perfectly happy releasing a POS that only sells by brand name.

[Phoenix @ Mar 21st 2009 2:00PM]

"perfectly happy releasing a POS that only sells by brand name."
*cough*original iPhone*cough*

[Matt @ Mar 21st 2009 4:15PM]

Read this very slowly. The carriers are not interested in this phone because of a LACK of differentiation. The phone is NO DIFFERENT than any other WM phone out there.

[Choco_Taco @ Mar 21st 2009 11:22AM]

Dell computers have always been cheap disposable computers with shaddy service. Why would anyone expect their phones to be any better. It will have cheap parts and probably run like garbage. I wish dell would just burn.

[neodorian @ Mar 21st 2009 11:26AM]

They were pretty thin-margin there for a while but I think they have come out with a lot of improvements lately. Their notebooks are quite nice these days and I just picked up an XPS laptop for my girlfriend on the Dell outlet site recently. It's a decent machine and very light. Affordable as well. Their Studio line is also pretty nice. I think they get a bad rap because of all the bargain-basement models rolled out by corporate IT departments that people were forced to use at work long past their usefulness.

[Choco_Taco @ Mar 21st 2009 12:18PM]

The number of systems I have dealt with and having had to take up to 3 months for dell to finally replace one has me deterred from every shopping with them again. They have dug their own hole in the ground. I just hope some day they will flop. I don't think the build quality is any better then they use to be unless buying one of their systems the have from another manufacturer they had bought out. Tech support has always been bad and still is.

[Daniel Cormier @ Mar 21st 2009 11:44AM]

So just put it out as an unlocked phone and let us customers buy it if we like it. You know, like Europe.

[Pies @ Mar 21st 2009 4:36PM]

You don't know squat about Europe, it seems.

[Wwhat @ Mar 21st 2009 11:59AM]

Fortunately I'm an experienced engadget reader and can help dell out, so here goes: Encrust the damn thing with swarovski crystals.

Happy to have fixed your differentiation issues.

[Sy @ Mar 21st 2009 12:03PM]

Why is Dell always trying to follow Apple? First, they tried retail stores. That didn't work. Next, they crashed and burned with mp3 players. And now cellphones.

If you want to know what will Dell do next, look at Apple.

[jakem @ Mar 21st 2009 12:23PM]

I don't think it's as simple as that. Dell were a reasonably big player in the Pocket PC market up until the point were Pocket PCs morphed into Windows Mobile phones. I think Dell are trying to get back into that game rather than copying Apple.

[Darrell @ Mar 21st 2009 7:54PM]

Yes, because Apple invented computer retail stores and MP3 players.

[Bob @ Mar 21st 2009 12:17PM]

I say, take the sexy from the Adamo, and put it in a smartphone

[superhobo @ Mar 21st 2009 12:27PM]

Dell...buying SE?

Please, no.

[ark_v2 @ Mar 21st 2009 12:29PM]

They should give the designing task to the XPS and Studio team.