Tesla CEO says Model S isn't really expensive, when you think about it
By Donald Melanson 
posted March 27th 2009 2:28PM
posted March 27th 2009 2:28PM
With a promised price tag of less than $50,000 (after a $7,500 federal tax credit), the new Tesla Model S sedan is certainly a good deal cheaper than Tesla's pricey roadster, not to mention its competitors, but according to Tesla CEO Elon Musk, it's actually quite a bargain compared to your run-of-the-mill sedan as well. As Musk tells it, "the ownership cost of Model S, if you were to lease and then account for the much lower cost of electricity versus gasoline at a likely future cost of $4 per gallon, is similar to a gasoline car with a sticker price of about $35,000." Musk further adds that the Model S would still be a bargain "even if gasoline were $1 per gallon," saying that it costs just $5 to drive 230 miles. Of course, all of that assumes that you'll actually be able to get your hands on the car one of these days, but Musk seems confident that'll happen as well, saying that the company is "close" to receiving $350 million in loans from the U.S. Department of Energy, which would be used to build the plant in California that would manufacture the Model S.
An Electric car would be bad in a country that is usualy under water. No matter where it was built.
I like the idea but one big problem: are mechanics in Jiffy Lube or your local repair shop capable of figuring out how to fix one of these should problems arise, or do you need to live near a Tesla dealership (i.e. in California)?
maybe in ten years ill be able to buy one, but then it'll be obsolete
In ten years, you'll have cars that run on happiness and have soap bubbles come out of their outlets.
That's a nice-looking prototype. But the proof is in the doing. Anyone can make a prototype. A guy named Preston Tucker tried it. Perhaps you've heard of him...
Tesla already has the roadster as proof that their car works
This is the Bernie Madoff of electric car companies. Give me an Aptera any day...
So all they need is $350m of taxpayers to pay to make them? Why not ask for $700m and make them free, no one can argue with that value proposition! This would be amazing if they were able to build the Roadsters to be reliable and as efficient as they claim, but they can't. How much does it cost to replace a laptop battery? And how often do you need to replace them? Ok, now how about replacing 6000 of them? I applaud their ambition, but wow, I think Musk's head is in the clouds with Spaceship One.
And the cost of electricity won't rise as hundreds of thousands of people start stressing the electric grid with their cars?
last time I checked the Sun and the Wind were free.
We all wish that was a problem - getting enough of these cars on the streets will take decades.
Electricity can be made tons of ways.
damn it! Why couldn't we have bailed out tesla instead of the big 3?
because Tesla's not making cheap, unreliable cars
Tesla won't have the manufacturing muscle to turn out anywhere near the numbers of cars that they could actually sell. If they were smart they'd license this design to Ford or Chevy and take a nice big fat monthly royalty check. That'd keep the US car industry afloat, stop mass layoffs and let Tesla focus on their strength - designing more cars, and maybe designing an econobox.
Trying to turn into a mass production manufacturer is going to turn ugly.
Amen. The government should give GM and Chrysler over to Tesla and get moving.
Tesla should be in charge, not the failed policies and vision of the big 3, if anything Tesla should receive incentives to take over the infrastructure the big 3 are unable to sustain. That is not only a smarter idea, it is one that makes sense.
Not to mention, it's sexy as hell.
I agree, $50K isn't really expensive....if you're Elon Musk.
Obama and crew should force whats left of GM and Chrysler to build this car en-masse if they are going to take government money.
Basically give Telsa, GM and Chrysler and get to it.
"it costs just $5 to drive 230 miles." Now, this would be about 92 miles per gallon at current gasoline prices ($2 a gallon), and this seems about right, otherwise who would care about electric cars? So, from that statement we can infer some things...
Now, this car would be plugged into your house, so we can assume that each Kwh = .12 cents (what the electric company charges us). So, $5 divided by .12 cents = 41.6 Kwh (or 41,600 watt hours). Ok (bear with me), 41.6 Kwh divided by 230 would = your per mile Kwh used... this is .18 Kwh. So, this is roughly 181 watts per mile.
A typical $450 solar panel produces 4.5 amps per hour - or 2200 watt hours per day (4.5 amps per hour x 4.5 average hours of direct sunlight for Vermont = 20 amps and then multiply that times 110 volts equals 2200 watt hours).
Divide 2200 by 181 watts needed to travel 1 mile and you get 12 miles per solar panel (per day). So, 3 solar panels would get you 36 miles per day, or what the average (roughly) American drives, 13,140 miles per year. 3 solar panels = $1,350. Of course, you need an inverter and batteries to store the power during the day which costs more, but you get the general example that I'm painting here.
Driving 13,140 miles per year in my car would cost $1,051 dollars (assuming a $2 per gallon 25 miles per gallon average). Basically, for the cost of 3 years in gas (or $3,000 dollars for panels, batteries, and inverter) I would never have to pay for my travel again (except for the cost of the vehicle and maintenance)?
Am I missing something?
I did some math yesterday and I think that $5/charge for the 230 mile pack is if you were running closer to 0.08/kWh. Normal California home current is 0.12+/kWh. But if you switch to a time-of-day meter, and charge your car at night when rates are cheaper you can get down to that 0.08 mark.
I had the same idea previously.
If I had 100K to blow....
$30,000 in Solar for the house which would pretty much allow me to live off grid if I wanted to deal with the batteries. But I would skip the batteries (I live in Southern California) and just force the electric company to buy my excess during the day (mandatory in CA already) at the higher rate (as mentioned by SuperQ). That excess would be quite hefty since no one is home and my draw is very minimal. Then you buy back your electricity at night when you watch TV, Do your laundry, Charge your car, etc at a lower rate.
Using this method, you don't have to produce as much as you use to break even. Sell high, buy low.
Then $35,000 x 2 for some Chevy Volts. With the rebate or tax credit or whatever coming soon on these cars, even a $40,000 volt is less than 35K.
This is 1 for me and 1 for my wife. They both get charged during the night and have 40 miles gas free to get to work and back (both my wife and I work less than 20 miles from home, so this works fine). If I need to go long distance, there is always the hamster wheel under the hood to produce enough electricity to drive to Vegas or San Diego or Disneyland or whatever.
Now using this method, I basically have a zero (or damn near zero) cost for both Gas for the cars and electricity for my home. If I had access to well water I would be styling.
I have a stupid question, but given the current solar-cell technology available how much more expensive would it make the vehicle if you replaced the sun-roof with a solar collector? Would this even be a feasible option and how long would it take using say the best solar-cell technology available for the batteries to charge this way?
I realize they probably wouldn't consider this for the type S, which wouldn't be in my price range anyway. I'll stay on the side-lines as a cheerleader for now, but when the $20,000 option comes along I wouldn't be able to charge the thing in a garage. I'm an NYC apartment dweller who's vehicle stays parked on the block for days. Yes I know we have trains but sometimes I have to travel where trains and buses usually won't go. What my current vehicle gets plenty of is sun exposure.
Just curious for the sake of argument.
STOP BUILDING, SELLING AND BUYING CARS
but cars are fucking awesome.
If you don't like them, don't buy one.
hot car but still to expensive for poor ol me
OK, went to the Tesla website, ready to get in line. Standing in line costs $5k, but that is refundable (except for $50) if you want to bail before your car is in production. Cool. BUT...the fine print...if Tesla goes belly-up before your car is delivered, you're out $5k. FAIL. I I was ready to lay down the $...
Soon they will be announcing the acquisition of a low interest loan from the government in the order of $350,000,000 perhaps that might give you a sense of security when placing your order.
This is actually an argument for increasing gas prices. As gas prices rise (and, in the longer term, they will continue to) the reasons for buying this type of car get a whole lot more compelling.
Justifying the price because you will not spend the money on gas, but put that same money into their company rather than your own pocket because of savings is just wrong.
ummm....yeah, i dont think so. I'd rather spend that 57k on a sweetass beamer. quality is earned and so is trust, so i cant trust my money in a startup. an where are you suppose to recharge this thing? there are no stations around.
mikeg @ Mar 27th 2009 4:12PM
"that battery pack costs upwards of $20k to replace and is expected to last at most 10 years.
so lets use a little thing i like to call math....
18,000 miles per year driving (which is above national average).
that means 6 oil changes at $50 each for a total of $300
or $3000 over 10 years
now we throw in a few 12000 mile services (15 to be exact) at $600 each.
total = $9000
now we throw in a new battery ever 5 years (total twice) for $100 each.
total $200.00"
If you pay $50 for an oil change, your a f****ing moron.
Even the Nissan dealership (where I bought my car) that uses Mobil oil doesn't cost that much ($34.95 +free car wash)). I go to a place that does it for $20 in 10 minutes or less.
Sears Sells Die hard's for $85. Walmart probably has it for cheaper, and they sell cheaper brands.
I question the price for a 12000 mile service check as well.
Most of the time if you get stuff done at a dealership, you are being hosed.
I have one big Question: Why must they build a complete new production plant, if they could get one from the old boys for a penny?
Has anyone read about cold-weather testing on the Tesla? How do its heater and defroster, if any, perform?
I don't have time to pore over websites but any info on Li cell performance in below freezing temps would also be helpful.
Finally, is the sedan AWD?
I want that F*** car why?
I live in Santiago, Chile (Chile is a country not a city in Mexico) one of the cities with the most poluted air in the world!
This is a dream come true and I sincerely hope Tesla will get the loan (USD 350Mill to setup a production plant)... damn I even tried to order one model S but is not on sale in this region... Help! If they don't get the loan... well move to Chile... we have the 2nd largest reserve of lithium and the largest copper reserves in the world....
Cheers,
Pato