Sigma DP2 up for pre-order, retailing for $649
By Paul Miller 
posted Mar 28th 2009 4:02PM
posted Mar 28th 2009 4:02PM
[Via DigitalCameraInfo]
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posted Mar 28th 2009 4:02PM
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I don't think anybody cares about this camera....This is not news worthy I'm very disappointment Engadget...
lol I was just about to post the same thing.
Tell us moar about that Japan-only Epson rangefinder! Like where I can find it on the grey market.
Oh, I guess you're wrong ;) A lot of people can't wait to get their hands on one, me included. Thanks Engadget!
Check this photo and say that again.
http://sigma-dp.com/DP2/sample-photo/img/SigmaDP2-014.jpg
when they put these in your phone in 10 years i think you'll change your mind
What makes this camera so awesome? Anyone know why. I'm looking for a high end compact (specifically the Panasonic DMC-LX3) and am wondering if the difference in image quality is worth all that extra money.
This uses a dslr sensor. It takes great photos. The last one did anyway. and to everyone else, theres a lot of poeple interested in this camera. I think that most of us who own a dslr have been looking for a good compact camera to take everywhere that doesn't disappoint us when we load our photos into photoshop. This is the only one so far that has the picture quality.
The DP2 uses a APS-C sized sensor which is huge compared to most point-and-shoots. Larger area= more light= bigger glass= better image quality.
DP2 sensor: ~286mm^2 area.
most point-and-shoots: 25~45mm^2.
In addition to the large size it uses a Foveon sensor. A Foveon system consists of three vertically stacked layers of photodiodes- much like color film. Comparatively most sensors use a Bayer filter system with alternating RGB photodiodes in a mosaic pattern. This means that there is better color representation because each pixel of the sensor can capture all colors. While there are some down-sides as well, but regardless of that, compared to any other P&S this camera should produce dramatically better pictures.
Essentially, dSLR quality without the dSLR size. Panasonic/Olympus will compete with the micro-FourThirds systems, but there are still a good deal larger then the DP1 or DP2.
@Temple:
But, those micro four-thirds systems have interchangeable lenses, don't they? I mean, I'm sure this camera is amazing, but it appears to be stuck with only the lens it comes with, which would be a huge disadvantage considering the lack of zoom and it doesn't actually appear to do well with wide-angle stuff either.
@Joe H
The DP2 is a real compact, the m43 is not. Not trying to say one is better then the other. In fact, I personally I love the m43. I have a Canon 50mm F0.95 lens + adapter ready for the the Panasonic GH-1. However, the DP2 is in the the high-zoom compared to the P&S, but you will get vastly superior quality in your pictures. Remember, the DP2 actually has a larger sensor then even the m43, but yes, the interchangeable lenses will be fantastic. Each serves its niche.
@Temple
Assuming they stick with more or less the same design, the Olympus would appear to be not much bigger than the Sigma. Provided that it's equipped with a small prime lens of course.
Also, going by surface area the DP-1's sensor is only about 22% bigger. And much of the high ISO performance a bigger sensor typically brings is negated by the Foveon's relatively poor performance in this area.
The sensor is more than 4 times the size of lx3's. Even though the noise is higher than on SLR's with similar sensor size, it is still much less noisy than any small sensor camera (even LX3, or f200fd's and the likes).
Other than that, you're getting a product by a small company that doesn't have enough money to perfect the UI. But definitely has an interesting sensor, and has know-how in lenses.
It's definitely a quirky product, and is a particular kind of photographer (not me, as much as I admire their ambitious entries into this yet-not-existing market). Although, argueably Olympus 420 with a pancase lens would be a very close equivalent.
Dear god, man. Click on the DP2 tag to view related articles, click thru to the first photos taken, download the samples in high res.
Holy god those look good.
Though even having a DP2 wouldn't give me the great eye that photog has.
Plus, please, for god's sake, Sigma makes a DSLR, so if you want the interchangeable lenses, they already have the camera for you... it just isn't a compact.
Start your research here. http://www.sigmaphoto.com/cameras/
It uses a foveon sensor. This makes it possible to avoid some of the blur and color artifacts caused by the bayer mosaic that standard digital cameras have. Unless you crop heavily, or blow up your pictures you wouldn't really notice, but as a technology, it is really cool.
Wow, that's a lot of money...
$10 is a lot of money for some people.
$1,000,000,000 is not a lot for some.
Depends on who you are.
For me $650 for a very good digital camera isn't much, if that camera survives for 5 years and makes pics I'll love (quality-wise).
Most expensive point-and-shoot evar.
Maybe it's because the sensor is at least 4 times the size of its P&S "competitors".
I honestly have no idea why you have been ranked down because you are, of course, entirely correct. This camera could have a sensor the size of [insert own county/state/province here] but that doesn't change the fact that it is the most expensive compact camera you can buy, particularly when you lose features like a zoom lens. The important question is, is the image quality from this camera good enough to allow it to compete against small DSLRs or the likes of the Canon G10? Given that Sigma's own DSLR cameras weren't exactly much to get excited about, I tend to have my doubts.
Hmm, I think the Ricoh GR-D was more expensive when it came out, and it has a tiny sensor.
I appreciate what they're trying to do here with a big sensor in a small camera, but why only give it a movie mode of 320x240?? That seems awfully ridiculous for this day & age.
Yeah yeah, I know not everyone wants/needs their camcorder & camera to be the same device, but most do. Plus other companies are setting the bar really high in this regard.
Sorry, but this is still pretty expensive for what it does. Put a decent video mode in it that can also take advantage of that big sensor & you'll sell a shit load of these. I'd buy it in a second for that price if that were the case.
So absolutely very right.
It's not like adding the possibility of shooting decent videos would spoil the other prerogatives of this camera.
Besides I have seen quite a few DSLR that are about the same size of this Sigma (without lens).
No,not for me thanx.
Thanks Engadget!
I'm very excited about this news. I've been struggling over my next camera purchase, and never considered the DP1 because of the high price tag; $649 is far more reasonable. If reviews show that the small issues that plagued the DP1 have been resolved, I'm picking one up as soon as possible. The move to a 40/2.8 is a blessing as well - potentially the perfect street camera.
For those confused, the DP2 is a niche product. It is the ONLY compact camera with an APS-C sized sensor. The DP2 is to compacts what the EOS-5D was to DSLR's: a no frills, large sensor camera. Bigger sensors mean better low-light sensitivity and higher IQ. Small sensors are the reason why ALL other compacts have dismal low light performance and are virtually unusable at anything over ISO400.
If you don't get why this camera is a big deal, it's not for you: just keep following that run of the mill $199 24MP 18x Zoom Face Recognition JPEG camera of the week that's been interesting you.
Wow. Thanks for the information. Next time please provide with without the unnecessary belittling comment.
However it is worth noting that Foveon sensors are not the best at high ISO. Better perhaps than most compact sensors, but not as good as a modern APS-C CMOS sensor... at least at the "picture level".
Where Foveons really shine is in color reproduction. Each pixel is full color, so there is no need to interpolate as with a conventional Bayer sensor.
i'll take the belittling comment, because he's right, and it's just so true.
belittling comment totally necessary.
gee-whiz electronic gimmicks don't belong on cameras. or cars. or computers, for that matter....
People really need to be educated about what makes a good digital camera. It's not about megapixels, and it's not about zoom range. It is all about the lens and the sensor. Sigma has taken a big risk by going against the marketing lingo to build a small camera for photographers. This is not a camera for the average Best Buy customer, Canon and Nikon have the corner on those folks.
"Maybe they both can be right."
They both CAN be right for sure. Maybe they ARE right.
I came here to see why this point-and-shoot was priced so high and thanks to the mature commenters, I now know. Thanks to everyone with constructive things to say!
I'm curious why someone would choose this over a more professional camera? You can get a starter DSLR like a Canon Rebel for about this price point.
And I'm not trying to put down point and shoot cameras, I have one and like it...it just seems like it doesn't offer as much as something else that would cost about the same.
It certainly isn't the best all-around camera, certainly not for a primary camera. It is a great point-and-shoot for professional photographers, and we need them just like everybody else. You don't always get to (or want to) carry a full rig.
I know one person who is buying one simply because it fits in his pocket for walks and hiking when his full rig just isn't with him. A normal point-and-shoot just doesn't have enough quality to salvage any practically usable shots from, and you can't always have your main cameras with you.
1. It's compact. VERY compact.
2. It has one of the sharpest lens ever made with minimal distortion thanks to a custom made prime. (Rebel kit lenses are horrendous)
3. No AA filter needed, no smudging in your images any more. (Which is like exposure film)
4. When PRINTED out even in large format, the image quality of the DP1 is extremely stellar. The D90/50D I have to say, can't match.
Camera size.
Some people (like me) prefer smaller cameras. They're easier to use every day, carry around for hours, less intimidating on the street . . . I'm not _too_ excited about the DP2 though. I'd hoped for substantial improvements in operational speed, but from the videos I've seen it's still quite slow and outclassed by 5-year old DSLRs.
This camera as well as DP1 and SD14/15 DSLR has large (hence high well capacity per pixel) Foveon 3-layer image sensor as many already pointed out. Everything else technical is total crap, here every hater is right, and I personally can not withstand its many deficiencies. One excuse: Sigma is a small company....
But almost no one stressed the point that by some reason such structure is capable to record just totally stunning image quality photos as if it records something beyond this damn RGB. Something Bayer can not do by unexplainable reason. A really good mathematician has to find why. Take a time to look at Foveon samples and enjoy. This is just a sun light recorded, not bits and pixels. You will feel it.
http://www.sigma-sd14.com/sample-photo/landscape/
Thanks for the link. The quality of the images (especially at 100%) are stunning!!! Have to be seen to believe. This Foveon sensor is amazing. Wish more camera manufacturers would use it.
What about Sigma DSLR cameras as opposed to say Canon or Nikon? I'm trying to settle on one body without going broke...and I don't want to buy a bunch of lenses for a DSLR just to switch brands later on and have to sell everything.
I'd stay away from Sigma, unless you really really really want the Foveon sensor or some other feature that only Sigma DSLRs offer. You will have much better support and selection for lenses/accessories if you stick with Canon or Nikon, including practically all of the lenses available for the Sigma DSLRs.
Just Nikon and Canon? There are a lot of very well supported DSLR's out there from more than just those two.
Pentax has been renowned for their cameras, and for lenses, for years. Pentax lenses have long been considered easily the equal of Nikons. The cameras are legendarily durable and simple to use, even if they are not otherwise very remarkable.
They also have the advantage of absolute compatibility of 50+ years of lenses on the DSLR's, and there are millions of them out there cheap. Nikon purposely crippled that feature in almost all but the most expensive of their DSLR's simply to force the purchase of new glass. Sure, old lenses will physically fit, but on Nikons it then intentionally shuts off even basic functions like ANY metering, focus confirmation, or flash synch. You are holding a brick at that point.
Also, Pentax has the VR built in-body, so ANY lens you put on it will be VR, no extra costs for VR lenses. Another very important point for a serious beginner.
There is more out there than just Nikon and Canon, and for good reason.
camera looks nice, would be incredible if it had 720p video with mic input connection on it. Would be cool if they could create a version with a 5x optical zoom on it as the whole point of this camera is portability. Pretty much all the quality of a dslr but can fit in your pocket, but without a zoom its usefulness becomes minimal for most ppl.
Sounds tempting...
The best photographs are taken with the camera (& lens) at hand. They are rarely taken with the *best* camera and the *best* lens. This camera has a slow lens and no zoom and it is very expensive for what it is. With a high quality sensor & lens, you can always zoom in and get a pretty good zoom effect, to a point, but this camera doesn't even have a wide angle lens to start with.
Umm... 24mm is not a wide angle? Seems pretty wide to me...
@Scott
24mm is the actual focal length. With the crop factor that comes to around 40mm [35mm equiv.].
Until recently, the notion of a zoom providing high IQ might be laughable. If you want a zoom that competes with prime performance, you're looking at well over $1000 USD. Zooms like the Nikon 14-24/2.8 ($1500 USD) which out performs the available primes in its range. Good luck finding any zoom faster than the 2.8 this camera has though ... in other words, I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "slow". Sure you can pick up 1.4, 1.8, and 2.0 primes - but consider their size and placement in regards to the sensor and think for a moment how that would work with a camera as small as the DP2.
It has a tack sharp 41mm (35mm equivalent lens). It is fixed because they wanted a lens that could out perform the sensor - in fact they entirely redesigned the prototype lens to achieve this. 41mm is very close to human vision, making this a normal lens. More "normal" than the 50mm often considered normal by DSLR standards. This direction was chosen due to numerous complaints of 28mm being too wide for a fixed focus p&s. Incorporating a zoom would have caused either an increase in size or a decrease in quality; and likely both.
If you want wide angle there are at least three options:
a.) use a high quality wide angle converter like those made by Nikon or Ricoh.
b.) wait for the rumored DP1mkII which supposedly retains the DP1's 28mm lens with the DP2 electronics.
c.) use a different p&s, rf, or dslr recognizing the trade-offs in price, size, and/or quality.
Again, this is a niche product; meaning it's not for everyone.
And finally, this camera is not any more expensive for what it is than other such leading-tech professional offerings like Nikon's D3, etc. It is the result of intensive research into a product based on market demand, for which there is no other alternative. R&D has even made headroom between the DP1 and DP2 as reflected in a reduced price. If another manufacturer had a comparable product priced below the DP2 you might have an argument ... but there's not, so you don't.
As you mentioned, the best pictures do not necessarily come from the best lens or camera. I have seen phenomenal photos come from 'junk' cameras - look at the lomo movement for example. That said, this is not a do-all compact, but a tool for serious photographers. If you find a need for a tool, you use it. Apparently there are enough of us who find use for this product to keep it a profitable venture for Sigma.
@Temple
Assuming they stick with more or less the same design, the Olympus would appear to be not much bigger than the Sigma. Provided that it's equipped with a small prime lens of course.
Also, going by surface area the DP-1's sensor is only about 22% bigger. And much of the high ISO performance a bigger sensor typically brings is negated by the Foveon's relatively poor performance in this area.
Ugh... this was supposed to be under Michael's post.
I've got a Canon 5D mkII as my primary body now ( http://www.igorbass.com ), and I am actually very interested in the DP2, or rather the idea of the DP2. I don't really mind it having a ~40mm focal length, that's close enough to 50 to be very useful, but I just wish that they gave it a slightly faster lens. If it had something around a 1.8, I'd certainly get it as a pocket camera, but as it is now, I am going to have to think about it. Maybe if some of the Micro 4/3rd format camera prototypes get made, I'll pick one of those up with a fast prime.
Is this better than the Lumix LX3 ?
Anyone ?