Mini Hydro Turbine concept could bring renewable energy production to your bathroom
By Tim Stevens 
posted April 6th 2009 8:13AM
posted April 6th 2009 8:13AM
[Via Gadget Lab]
posted April 6th 2009 8:13AM
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This is not free energy, it's a waste. Water pressure comes from pumps that use electricity which you are then turning back into electricity.
This is like using the power provided by the phone company to light your house.
you nailed it.
You might as well close comments here. This is no different than placing generators under pavement to capture "Free Energy" from cars rolling over it, slowly reducing the MPG of those cars.
Is there something necessarily wrong that?
If I don't use the phone all day, I wouldn't mind using the wasted energy for something else.
I don't need my tap to blast out high pressure all the time, and I can recycle that energy to shave, why the hell not?
right, but you don't always need all that pressure, and this should barely impede the flow.
If you put solar cells on the inside of a lamp shade, you aren't getting free energy, but you're recycling waste.
Don't think of it as using electricity to create electricity, think of it as using electricity to pump water, and using that water for it's intended use AND create electricity.
I don't think anyone is going to just leave the faucet on all the time because of this, but if it helps out a little bit when you do need to use the water, it's a plus.
Charlie: close, but a little off. If you have more water pressure than you need when running your tap, then this type of device would reduce your at-tap pressure while generating a small amount of power. It becomes a dumb idea when you start running your tap more than you normally would just to generate power. Then again, if you've got more pressure than you need, you should probably just open your tap a little less. That'd probably a much more efficient solution than manufacturing, shipping, and installing a new component for your bathroom.
@Gr1zz, collecting wasted energy from road flex doesn't have to reduce auto efficiency. Most road pavements are asphalt-based, which we refer to in the civil engineering world as flexible pavements. Right now, when you drive over an asphalt road, it flexes under the weight of your car already. The system you mention would ideally just capture the energy from that flex that would otherwise have just been wasted in the form of heat.
The concept of this device makes sense. The placement does not if it is at the tap. If this device was to be put at the waste end of modern plumbing, then it would be great. But it would need to be a high gravity system. Put these things on the waste end of a high rise building and you have a winner. As Charlie said, pumps are used to get water to the source. Gravity is used to take the waste to the sewer.
Jorvay: Exactly, if people want less pressure, then they should open the faucet less.
paragraph: If your lamp it too bright, then you should get a dimmer bulb or turn on less lights, not put solar cells (which are only 20-30% efficient) inside the shade.
Converting from one form of energy to another (mechanical to electrical, electrical to mechanical, solar to electrical, electrical to solar, etc) is not 100% efficient. You lose energy every time.
The best thing we can do is to use only what you need: Turn on only the lights you need, used only the water you need, etc.
This is only a good thing if you were to put them on the ends of gutter drains so the gravitational potential energy of flowing rainwater could create electricity. However, there is an argument of the carbon emmissions/energy us used to actually manufacture these in the first place.
Thank you for making this "first." These kinds of gadgets really piss me off. For one, their flawed in concept. Second, for those who "might use this as an option anyway," you're also wasting resources producing these recursively wasteful gadgets for minimal gains. Focus conservation efforts elsewhere and keep your switches and faucets off, dammit.
the pavement generators could be placed on downward slopes.
Like several others, I like the concept but feel the placement is in the wrong spot.
You need to attach this to a device that doesnt rely on pressure.
I have had this same idea in the back of my head for years now but the magic location I would put this is the TOILET.
Toilets actually have devices in them to regulate the pressure, so its not a far stretch, and filling the tank means you run over a gallon of water through the pressure regulator.
I think an interesting invention in the Northwest US would be to capture the same energy released from storms that is truly FREE.
Take the Runoff of your roof, channel it into 1 or 2 downspouts and then put a pressure nozzle and mini generator on the end of the downspout. The only major hurdle I see here is keeping debris out of the water flow leading into the generator.
The taller the building, the better the pressure you can build and the more free (kinetic) energy you can harness.
Agreed to all of you..... We're working on this at an aquarium and our waste line was the only one that moves without pressure pure 1 million g/per day on gravity and its going to take much of the facility off the grid......
Agree as well. If you attached this to every source or water outflow in a city, you'd only recover the energy of the pump that fills the water tower(s). Also, the pressure loss would really suck. Remember people, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS FREE ENERGY!
You would think he'd have sold the concept as fitting inline with your mains water supply, not on the end of your tap. Douche.
So that if the turbines burn out or something and stop rotating, it would block your entire water supply?
Genius!
Ok. welcome to the douche club. You would implement precautions against this, divert routes and valves.
It has to be visible and out in the open because it's more important that other people see that you are environmentally conscious, than it is to actually make a difference. It's similar to how:
- the most popular hybrid cars look different so everyone know you're driving a hybrid,
- people buy a pink ribbon where most of their money never reaches the charity's cause so everyone will know you support cancer research,
- people will spend a day running for cancer where everyone can see you instead of a day doing something useful like building homes or making blankets for the poor where people won't see your contribution.
I remember reading about a high school student years ago that had that very idea of putting a generator right after the water meter in the house. This guy has just boiled it down to something he can make cheaply as a crappy "green earth gadget".
Thanks for the warm welcome Mr Chairman.
And Evan, +1
thank you evan. buying yourself a hybrid vehicle isn't going to help the environment. your net effect by doing so (if there is any at all, which may be a valid argument) is so tiny it can be rounded to zero. even if you combine all the hybrid owners, it doesn't bring as much of an affect as we need. what needs to happen is national policy changes. one great example would be forcing companies to design devices and chargers that draw zero power on standby. that alone would make a significant difference.
This is not free energy. The water lines are pressurized with pumps using energy. This device would just recapture some of that energy, but not in a very efficient way. There is a huge energy loss between the pump station and your house.
You pay 1 times X for water, you put in the device, it makes electricity, you still pay 1 times X as before, so you, the end-user, have free energy.
Seems simple enough.
Assuming, of course, the device was free..........
wwhat: Except it puts additional load on the water pumps, which increases the electricity used by the pumps, which increases the cost per gallon of water coming out of your faucet, thus your water bill will go up.
It is NOT free.
No it does not increase load, the pressure you get at the entrance will remain the same, you just get a weaker stream on the output, which is a choice you made.
The watercompany doesn't measure how fast the water comes out of your faucet after any devices you put in between and then increase pressure, that's not how it works.
If you open up your faucets to make your "free" energy, and everyone else does too, then the pressure in the system falls - and it will take more water, and more pumps running more often to maintain pressure. This is in no way free.
>which is a choice you made.
Then just open your faucet less.
@ Wwhat
It will cost you money once your utility company raises your water prices due to the fact that they have to build new pumping stations/use more power at their existing stations to provide you with the same service. Which is not even mentioning that you're compounding losses from the pumps, turbines and head losses in the pipes leading to your home.
Placing a turbine at the end of your faucet does increase the load on pumping stations as the turbine is a source of head loss (aka pressure, or driving force) in the line. In effect, if everyone used this product all they would be doing is guaranteeing water price increases that more than offset any energy costs savings they may net from the use of the product mainly due to the incredibly lossy energy transfer.
There's no such thing as "free" energy. The pressure at which water is delivered to your home is provided by the municipality's pumps and / or the pumps in your building. Tapping this energy decreases water pressure so you'll never be able to get much out of it.
There are, however, already faucets for use in commercial settings that use micro-turbines to power the motion sensing fixtures that turn on automatically. The alternative is battery operated or hard wired fixtures, but since they only use a tiny amount of electricity, micro-turbines make sense.
Do you actually not realize that this is not "free" energy as there is no such thing? The energy comes from somewhere. It comes from pressure in your pipes that is created using other means, notably, electricity. The only thing you're doing by using a device like this taking energy from the water supply company! This is a horrendous idea.
Surely you not going to get enough energy to charge your toothbrush from the 30 seconds it's running in the morning. I mean who leave the tap running when they brush their teeth?
i brush my teeth with ammonia
I mean who leave the tap running when they brush their teeth?
Evidently the idiots at Engadget - in fact they seem to be gloating about wasting water.
Sad, very.
I brush my teeth in a nice half hour hot running shower.
"This is not free energy"
"This is not free energy"
"There's no such thing as "free" energy"
No shit, Einsteins.
But at least you're using the potential energy of your flowing water which is going down the drain anyway.
Some distribution systems are gravity driven; source uphill of treatment plant, which is uphill from distribution lines, which is uphill of wastewater treatment; that makes it all head dependent, without the need for pumps. The energy is still not "free", but it wasn't necessarily generated from man-made electricity. And as you said, that PE would be going down the drain anyway.
Sure but isn't it easier and cheaper to just turn off the tap? This just leads to more products eventuallly going to landfill.
No, it is not net positive in energy production.
Any device put in line like this will cause a DROP in water pressure out of the tap. If enough folks use this type of inline turbine (or worse put a turbine at the water main entry point into the house) it will require the pumping station to increase water pressure to ensure folks actually get good enough flow out of their tap. Guess what genius? This requires the pumping station to use more energy to increase water pressure.
It takes more energy to increase line water pressure than the energy that will be generated at the end. So net, you are actually using more energy than you are creating with such a device as this.
So yes, everyone else other that yourself are indeed the Einstein's as they seem to grasp basic physics and the fact that is takes energy to pressurize water lines.
When i steal a battery, thats free energy
You are wrong Zounder1, if people put obstructions in their waterpipes it means more pressure for the rest of the system since the waterflow to that house is less, and thus more for other users, and if these people that place these obstruction in their home don't have enough pressure left for themselves, well that's their problem not the watercompany's problem.
I don't know about the USA, but in a lot of countries, most buildings have their own tanks on the top. The water supply is at the bottom, and each building pumps it up for itself.
Also, why the hell is lars's comment way up there? He was the last to reply.
In reply to wwhat...
Your logic is wrong. Lets assume the munincipal line comes in at 70 psi. Your "water power generator" could cause, say, a 20psi drop in pressure. So your house gets 50psi. The thing is, the city still must maintain 70psi at the house entrance for you to get your 50psi. So no, they do not get to save energy or reduce pressure due to someone installing something like this in their house. They do not get to drop their line pressure.
@Wwhat
You're incorrect. Just because flow would divert from a house with these turbines more than it would from a comparable house without them doesn't mean it's not putting more of a load on the pumping stations.
Think about it like an electrical circuit if it's easier. If you have a circuit with x number of resistors of equal resistance in parallel, if you increase the resistance of one of the resistors certainly the current through that resistor will drop with respect to the current through the other existing resistors. However, the resistance of the entire system (and thus the load) will increase.
on the contrary if the water flows from a gravity fed overhead tank (no energy used to pump up the water), this is still free energy and less pressure to flush..
This whole discussion of gravity fed lines is rather, ahem, academic. Most municipal systems do not have the luxury of a water supply that is significantly higher than where they are delivering the water to. And most larger water systems have pumping stations closer to the end point of delivery to help ensure consistent water delivery to all customers and to prevent drops in water pressure when demand spikes.
For example: In the morning you can have lots and lot of folks on neighbourhood water pipe lines suddenly have their normal morning shower... without pumping substations you could experience a huge drop in pressure. You don't as the pumping substation ensures the line maintains a certain PSI level to ensure good delivery to all clients on the line. That takes energy is case anyone was wondering.
So this whole discussion that the energy in the water is "free" is rather moot in most instances.
Actually pumpingstations often pump it up to reservoirs that thus use gravity to buffer the pressure to users, it's electricity that has the drawback of not being able to be buffered in large scale use, although they did experiments with large superconducting rings in the hope to develop such a buffer I understand., but the point is that water can and is buffered and not just straight from a pump to a pipe.
There is such thing as "Free Energy"! Just secretly tap into your neighbor's electrical system.