Apple orders 100 million 8Gb flash chips in ramp up for new device(s)?
By Thomas Ricker 
posted Apr 9th 2009 12:58AM
posted Apr 9th 2009 12:58AM
Oh Apple, what are you up to? Just like we saw right around this time last year in preparation for Apple's new iPhone 3G and updated iPod touch, Apple is placing huge orders of NAND chips thereby threatening the supply in demand by other tier-one vendors. This time we've got DigiTimes confirming earlier reports that Apple is cornering the market on flash memory -- specifically, the Taiwanese rumor rag is reporting orders of "100 million 8Gb (8 gigabit, not gigabyte) NAND flash chips mostly with Samsung Electronics." That's twice the size of the order reported last year. The tiny memory chips are then recombined during manufacturing into the larger 16GB, 32GB, and so on capacities we expect to find in our handheld consumer electronics. Anyone still doubting new Apple handhelds in June?
100 million? Damn, Apple is going all out.
If those 100million NAND chips were used to make equal numbers of 8GB and 16GB iphones (not even considering ipod touches).. that's only enough for 4.16 million each. Really not that huge a number...
Now if we consider equal numbers of iphone (8GB, 16GB) and ipod touches (8GB, 16GB, 32GB)... that's enough for only 1.25 million each.
I like that this picture is clearly of an older software version. They changed that 3G logo real quick.
@AJ
not 4.16 million [each], 4.16 million TOTAL, and that would be with 16 and 32GB iphones, not 8 and 16
i'm guessing your ipod number is wrong as well as the [each] being wrong again...but i'm too lazy to go figure out what it is at 2:30 in the morning
No, no they are NOT going all out.
This is non-news, guess Engadget had to meet their Apple quota for the week.
Do the math yourself:
Exactly, Gb, NOT GB.
And 100 million 8 gigabit chips is really not that much.
Do the math yourselves:
8 Gb = 1 GB
100 Million 8Gb chips then = 100 Million 1GB chips
So really, that means they have 100 Million GB's to work with.
That means either:
12.5 Million 8 GB devices
or
6.25 million 16 GB devices
or
3.125 million 32 GB devices
or
some combination thereof
That's really not that many devices.
Anyone know what OTHER phones use?
How about Palm's rumored-coming-soon Pre? What does it use?
When I read that in my head, I thought they were going to say "that's twice the size of Texas".
But it doesn't sound as good to say "Almost as fast as other people's competing product W." or "Twice the price for half the benefit - I am rich 2 anyone?" or the much smaller number of "Enough memory components for 6 Million 16GB devices!" .
In all fairness, there is really no choice but to say "100 Million 8Gb chips were bought by Apple". Because no one knows how many devices that is intended to feed. It's fine to calculate various possible configurations, but that's not what was being exchanged... 100 million memory chips were ordered. :)
Now, I don't know that it was responsible to suggest this will threaten the availability to all other companies developing electronic devices. 100 Million may be a small number of chips, in the production market, or it may be a quarter's worth of total capacity in the industry. Until we know capacty, the number is meaningless.
@jeesusfreek:
No, my numbers are correct. Check your math again.
If x is the number of iphones made in each size and if 100millions NAND chips were gong to be used to make an equal number of each model, then
8x + 16x = 100,000,000
x = 4.167 million
Don't forget Apple may want to create pre-boot environment like those Asus notebooks have and thus would run off NAND flash chips.
You make it, I'll buy it Apple.
I'm holding out to update my 1st generation iPhone.
Pretty much the mentality of all you apple lovers isn't it?
I dunno man, if I had a real hard-on for Apple I'd be updating every generation. I have 3 friends with 3G iPhones and they are all having problems. Hopefully if they make drastic improvements I'll pick one up.
But yea good effort on starting an online battle there skipper.
@abe
I wish everyone had that same mindset, just imagine if they actually had to improve with every generation (Microsoft and Apple).
@evan
im waiting to update my zune once they release a new one!!!!!
yeah same man, im glad i didnt get the 3g, it was worth waiting apparently.
@Mike
Or you could just put in the free firmware upgrade that all the Zunes get, and not have to buy a new device every time a new small feature is added.
Sorry, your argument doesn't really work with that one.
I've got a Macbook wheel that I'm willing to part with
"I'll buy almost anything if it's shiny and made by Apple"
Self-fulfilling prophecy.
I love saving up to get a bit of new Apple gear at Christmas, keeps me happy for a few months. I even have a savings acount called then 'Apple Fund', not that much goes in there, about £2 a week. Over the two years that apple actually come out with 'new' stuff rather that the 1.5 versions like the iPod touch 2gen, I can happy save enough to put 70 percent total cost (I'm an iPod touch person, phones don't interest me). Glad Apple are around to put a bit of fun into the whole gadget world, there really is nothing like seeing and holding their major new devices for the first time (if you can pull them off the counter top).
On Christmas Eve every two years I get just a taste of being a kid again, only I've paid for the stuff myself, lol.
@insky
well no, i was refering to a hardware update, rumors say they are working on one soon.
i dunno at 8 gigaBITS it would take quite a few to get me to 32 gigaBYTES
it would take 16 chips.
@ryudeshi
moron
8 gigabits = 1 gigabyte
so 32 x 8 gigabit chip = 32GB
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=1+gigabyte+%3D+%3F+gigabits
yea i realized that before you posted an corrected my other post, i divided by 4 instead of 8 for some reason.
its ok we all make mistakes :D
It's usually easier to just type "1 gigabyte in gigabits"... just feels more "Google-esque".
But, why say "moron"? A bit harsh.. don't you think?
@liquid_fusion
yeah yeah, i'm sorry, I didn't really mean it
suuuppeerr stressful week for grad school..with finals coming up and all.
butt bustin the next two days.
jeesusfreak, using your logic:
http://www.google.com/search?q=32+gigabytes+in+gigabits
You are wrong. It is 256 chips.
@Mitch
Yup, now you actually are a moron - 100 million [ [ [ [ [ 8 GIGABIT ] ] ] ] ] chips. That means, yes, you need 256 Gigabits but since each CHIP is 8 gigabits, you only need 32 x 8 gigbabit chips..exactly as i stated.
Good god you have to be some kind of angry, lonely, sad nerd to start out with "moron" when correction a minor math error on a website comment board..
Good luck with the inevitable court ordered anger management.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
The conversation in this part of the room is hilarious. Faulty math and insults. Love it. So needlessly harsh, it's like personality disorder central.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
@utahnkid: It's "correcting" not "correction".... Moron.
Sorry, had to do it. :)
so what is that, like.. 200 Petabytes?
ehh more like 100PB, not sure why I used 4 instead of 8 while converting bits to bytes.
it will be a gigantic phone.
What will the next iPhone's key point be? Storage size? Anyone know?
Hopefully the key point will have something to do with correcting the past generation's uselessness and maybe making their owners seem less like douchebags. G1(G2/Dream) and Zune(software/hardware) 4 Life.
Although it would be surprising, they might make a 64GB iPhone (and they will almost definitely have that size iPod touch later this year), which would be a big selling point for people with large media libraries.
They iPhone was originally marketed as the end all device that encompassed all of your needs, but the starting sizes of 4-8GB hardly replaced a 30GB iPod, much less the 80GB or even 160GB many people are now accustomed to. A $299 64GB, $199 32GB, and $99 16GB iPhone price line (after signing your soul away to the AT&Tichrist, of course) would seem the next logical step.
Maybe it's too soon for the 64GB, but they need to do something big to keep old customers interested in an upgrade. There will be a 32GB version for sure.
@chizenguy5
If you are in fact a real G1/Zune person (hey, aren't those the two mobile 'iKillers' that Apple bulldozed right over in the last few years?), and that comment was meant to express your true beliefs, that's just sad.
The G1 is actually OK, but Zune??? You might as well root for the Apple Newton while you're at it, and keep them both in your fannypack :D. For some things, the battle is just plain over, and there will be no comeback. The social is dead, ladies and gentlemen.
@Mmmm... Dohnuts
That really is the way I feel, I think the iphone serves no other purpose than to cater to trendsters and and be pretty(I do give the Apple design team props). The camera on this thing sucks, mobile me is less than useful, at&t's service is horrible(and I should be in a good area, downtown Chicago), no physical keyboard, and it uses itunes. The G1 connects me directly to my email better than the iphone could ever hope to(even pushed email from my work account), I don't have to install and clunky software on my *PC*, I can use the My Faves feature, not pay thousands a year for service, and most of all stand out in a world full of people trying to blend in.
also@Mmmm... Dohnuts
Oh, and to address the Zune thing, I like it because I get acess to all the organized music I want for $15 a month, and get 10 drm free files a month(yes I do pay for some/most of my music, I support the music industry and more importantlly the artists). So when Apple will gets on board, let me know. The Zune devices may in fact die off after the 3rd gen, but the software will live on, because it's by far the best. I love to hear how defensive Apple fanboys get when they hear anything about any brand other than apple.
@ Chizenguy5
What you are describing is the Zune Marketplace, no the Zune. Like Zune Marketplace, well fair enough, but like the Zune? Time to wake up and smell the pizza man. Haven't you seen Pulp Fiction? Bruce Willis said it best:
"Zune's dead baby, Zune's dead..."
@Chizenguy
You say AT&T service sucks and then praise T-Mobile?
Ok....
@who?
It's highly unlikely that Apple will release a 64GB iPhone right now. The reason why that would be possible with the iPod Touch is because it has to two memory slots, the iPhone only has one. That is why currently the iPhone only goes up to 16GB while the iPod Touch goes up to 32GB.
@chzenguy5 - the fact that you need a G1 *and* a Zune kind of invalidates the comparison in my eyes...
for anyone wondering, 100 million 8 Gb chips makes 100 million gigabytes worth of flash memory,
or spread 50-50 between 16 and 32 GB devices, about 4.2 million devices
6.25 million 16GB devices
or 3.1 32GB devices
sorry, should be
or 6.25 million 16GB devices
or 3.1 million 32GB devices
Ironic how you called Ryudeshi a moron, and then made the same mistake he did.
@AJ
No i didn't? I missed putting the word "million" in
I got all my math right
Actually, no he didn't. He merely missed a word whereas Ryudeshi messed up the calculation.
I apologize .. I misread that as "6.25 million 16GB devices AND 3.1 million 32GB devices"..
Looks like everyone is makeing mistaeks.
Let's hope Apple will be the first to make a 64GB flash PMP. I sure could use the space on my iPod touch...
too bad it would cost $700, still need that space from Apple?
Do we really need to know this?
You're right, the RFID cat door was far more crucial to gadget enthusiasts.
that puma/deathtrap was even more crucial to gadget enthusiasts
hey I want that RFID cat door and I don't even have a cat
Well, they've gotta get ready for 4G don't they?
So these aren't finished packages as shown in the picture. I'd be interested to know how these 8Gb chips are recombined though. I had assumed NAND packages were a single piece of silicon.
They are just soldered next to each other and linked to a memory controller. It look like your average SSD board with the rest of the hardware added to it.
It seems like they're just supplying their stock of flash chips for 2H '09 to 1H'10. They could be using them for anything, not just the iPhone / iPod Touch. But, it's probably a safe bet that one or multiple devices will get a storage bump.
If I buy one it will be ebay only, no way will I be stuck with the 30 dollar data plan each much from att
Ironic how you called Ryudeshi a moron, and thenmade the same mistake he did.
Sorry, that was meant for jeesusfreak
we're all just a bunch of fuck ups eh?
You're confusing my apology to be for my fuck up.. you must be new to ways of the engadget comment reply system. Go get some sleep wondermatt...
I actually believe he was referring to how you commented on someone messing up, and messed up yourself, making it ironic. maybe you're the one who needs sleep.
Good to see that you're standing up for your namesake, 'matt.', but since you're all wide awake and rested, maybe you should look at the timestamps and figure things out for yourself.
That said, I did admit to the error I made above.. and that's the end of story.
wow, two people with the same name, it's hard to comprehend I know, especially with a uncommon name such as matt. again you fail to see the point, and i'm not going to waste my time explaining to the narrow minded.
The biggest fuck-up of all is the frakking comment system.
how about a large order for 5 MP or higher camera sensors Apple! With autofocus and flash please. I am getting the feeling this N85 wont last like my N95 did and I want all those apps. So Apple give me the camera I need to finally get on the iPhone bandwagon.
I'm just curious as to why you need a 5 megapixel camera.
Because I like to take pictures? My N85 and my older N95 have a good enough camera, so that I don't need a separate pocket cam. 2 mp cell cams with no flash don't do well in social situations, or in fact any situation where something is alive and possibly moving.
dude, megapixels are the least important thing in digital photography. The more pixels you cram in that pencil tip sensor the higher the noise ratio. Bad.
Megapixels have nothing to do with moving objects. For that you'd need:
- Higher ISO
- Fast shutter
- Wider F stops
- Fast memory buffer
For better quality images you need a better lens. I'd rather have any of those things over more megapixels. But ultimately, it's the photographer, not the camera that makes the good image. It's the painter, not the paint. Yes?
Yes I know all this. I guess you missed everything I said. I have a Nokia N85 and N85 both have a decent camera unit specs all around for a phone. The iPhone has a crappy camera unit, no auto focus, crappy lens, no flash and even a pitiful noisy as all get out 2 MP sensor. Even though the N95 has more megapixals the sensor is a lot less noisey then the one on the iPhone. I could care less if I need to be a good photographer to take good pictures. I use the auto setting on my N85 and N95 to take pictures usually of my friends and usually when I am drunk. I don't want to be a good photographer I want a phone that takes decent pictures all by itself.(something the iphone can't do even with the best photographer) And yes I do like to crop my photos so I might need more then 2 mp. Please point me to any 2 MP phone camera that bests a Nokia N series shooter, especially the N82 with its xenon flash. All I want is decent photos, something the iPhone can't provide, in fact I am not sure what I am arguing about here. IT DOES NOT EVEN HAVE A FLASH. I take pictures of people, sometimes in dark places not inanimate objects in bright sun.
This is what you need sir:
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/digital-cameras/slr-phone-camera-150016.php
yeah I know, not 2Mpix but hey...
haha yes how ridiculous. However again you missed that I am looking to get an iPhone.(one with a decent camera) The reality of the situation is that I will get an N86(with 8 MP *gasp*) and live a happy life with my multipurpose pocket computer that takes good pictures amoung other things.... Maybe the ovi store will bring all the apps symbian so desperately needs. I don't even need a touch screen or a qwerty keypad.
You go do that then. Enjoy your 8mp of noise maker.
Andrew - I dont think you can mention on here that you want a better camera and more megapixels because everyone then because an expert on the matter.
@Others - All he wants is a good camera with more megapixels - is that so hard to wish for?? The iphone camera is wank! end of.
Jumping in and saying more megapixels doesn't equal better picture just makes you sound like a parrot as it has been repeated on here many many times before.
The reason for why I'm being a parrot is because these people are being parrots saying "MORE MEGAPIXELS! LOL!"
Once they stop, so will I. Fair enough?
ok fair enough
Ok parrot. I have come to grips with the fact that camera improvement means there will be more megapixals though I don't need more the 8 MP personally. I have a feeling that the nokia N86 will take the best pictures of any cameraphone. Please, sense you love 2 MP cameras so much show me a 2 MP camera phone that takes better pictures then the N86. I know my SE 610 does not and it even has a flash. Or you can try and find one that takes better pictures then the 5 mp N95 or N82. I have already seen that the N86 takes better pictures then the N95 despite having 3 more MP.(something about a four times larger image sensor) I really don't care to much about the MP once its past 5 MP as that is enough to take the pictures and crop if I need too. A 2 MP image does not even fill my desktop monitor.
I hope this means that the new iPhones will be getting a storage upgrade to 32 GB! 16 is far too small if you want to take a lot of video with you!
Could be a move to threaten other device releases as well while stockpiling for future devices. they can build up a supply for future iPhones while harming supplies for Palm to launch the Pre, for example.
Meant to add, delaying the palm launch even a few weeks could be fatal for Palm
let's just hope they unveil the ichat app we've all been waiting for in june, that would be spectacular.
I'm still waiting for my touch zune......
Hmmmm, than why would you put CPUs on the picture? Great thinking, Engadget!
good catch
Er, that's NAND, Micron e-MMC NAND Flash to be specific:
http://images.micron.com/images/products/new/high/nand/managed_nand.jpg
Thomas
Apple buys all the 8gb nand memory chips to release 8,16,32gb iphones and itouches, then other gadget companies releases new touchscreen models with 64gb,128gb memory capacity models with an expansion slot for memory upgrade even.
Hey folks don't hope on a 32gb iphone, it aint just gonna happen. Let me do some number crunching:
Apple ordered 100 million GIGABIT chips.
8 gigabit = 1 gigabyte
Therefore, 32 gigabytes = 8gigabits * 32
That is equivalent to 256 gigabits flash chip per 32gb iphone.
So the number of 32gb iphones expected = 100million/256.
Which is equivalent to "39,062.5" 32gb iphones.
So i don't see why apple will release a new iphone if they are hoping of selling just 39 thousand. So myth busted folks, don't expect a 32gb iphone in June. But if we are talking of 80% 8gb and 20% 16gb iphones, then that might be plausible. Sorry to shatter your hopes, but thats the reality, numbers never lie. If you are into loads of memory, get the Nokia N97 its got 32gb internal memory + expandable memory slot which will make the total memory 64gb if you get a 32gb card. Thanks
how could 32K worth of iPhones be threatening the global supply in demand for other tier-one vendors?
Methinks something is not right about your math.
Now y do u have to make stupid comments..Yes 256 gigabits is 32 gigabytes but apple bought 8 gigabits chips so with simple math 256 gbits/8=32 chips per iphone(32GB). So 100 million chips make 3.125 million iphones like jeesusfreek said
Math right or not, that still doesn't answer my question though. There is no way making an extra 32,000 iPhones is going to threaten the global supply of those chips. Yet the article is saying Apple is buying so many chips that the supply will run out for other device manufacturers.
The article is lame and not well thought out.
You would think that apple dont make any other products that use flash memory.
'Oh Apple have placed an order in the range on 100 million for NAND chips lets get all excited and write and ill informed article'
Please think a little bit more when writing this crap as many have said it already
- this is nothing to get happy about
- equates to a relatively small number of 32gb iphones
- not all these chips will be used in one device most likely (ipod, nano, shuffle, touch, etc)
These articles are spun to get people coming back.
Engadget get worse but I still keep coming back :-s Someone suggest better blogs ;-)
So many screw up's here...
Engadget, don't use Gb it just confuses the kids... Why don't you just say 1GB chips?