20+ year old "gamers" (is that a title? to me it sounds like a diss) yappin about needing gaming power in a computer at that point, you have to run upstairs, tell your mom that you're not hungry for that hot pocket anymore and get a girl and a job
that MS Sony whatever is gonna freeze up in about 5,4,3,2...
Well isn't Microsoft obsessed about Apple? On all 3 ads they start by mentioning Apple...
For a small player that doesn't matter at all, as Microsoft said, Microsoft can't stop talking about them... uffff... I guess that means a lot.
(Before someone mentions it: of course Apple attacked Microsoft in its ads: Microsoft has 90% of the pc market... and yes, Apple computers are pcs... they were even before IBM thought about it.)
as for the idiots arguing about DVD vs Blu-Ray below, yes you can tell the difference between them on a 1280x800 screen, but that said the FW has a 1920x1080 screen
Well, I don't think these ads are going to have the desired effect. They're aimed at cheapskates. Cheapskates don't buy Macs in the first place.
And you know what, Payless shoes are cheaper than a pair of New Balance. I could probably buy five pairs of Payless shoes for the price of a comfortable pair of New Balance, but you know what, I'd never do that because the soles of the Payless shoes are going to start peeling off a week after you buy them. And that's stupid. Why not buy the higher priced quality brand and save money in the long term?
To me, these new ads are attempting to make something as crappy as Payless, look like a great deal. It ain't gonna work with anyone with half a brain and a decent job.
Yeah P.A.C. Man I am sure almost every major corporation is thinking about games when they purchase new MS boxes because Mac's wont run their software.
Bingo! Vaios are great computers, no doubt. But I'm quite sure that in 10 years you would have replaced the Vaio with another PC, and already replaced that other PC with another one...
On the other hand, I'm still playing with my PowerBook, running Leopard without a hickup...
Windows PCs are for people who like to throw their money of the window... ;)
Am I the only one wondering what the price on that unit was? No mention of it in the commercial, unlike the first two in which they were pretty clear on what the units costs these "real life people". The 355 comes in at just under $1,129, but if I was a "gamer", wouldn't I want the 378? Despite it pushing the $1500 limit at tad over $1,429 (Maybe they can come out with new commercials that give people $1,550). I mean, it would benefit to have the faster CPU and FSB if I was too run power-hungry games on it. Higher resolution would also be to my liking.
I guess MS has stopped worrying about sticking closer to facts, less on contradictions, and to focus more on what they (Ballmer) are good at: Slinging mud with broken glass and bits of metal in it.
I don't understand why people keep clinging to that "Macs won't run your software" myth. Macs now run MORE software than PCs, due to utilities like boot camp, which allows you to run Windows NATIVELY on your Mac. You might not have noticed this unless you work in an office, but now businesses are allowing people to have Macs in the workplace BECAUSE they can run Windows.
I use Windows, but I use it for a few games and that's it. There isn't one piece of software that's better on the Windows side. In my experience, Mac apps are just better designed. For example, when I first switched to Mac, I immediately started looking for music software, so I naturally I tried out iTunes, which I had never used on the PC side. Up to that point I used WinAmp to listen to music, a shareware app to convert my MP3s to WAV and Nero to burn a CD. iTunes did all of that in one app. Okay, but iTunes is available for PCs, right, so maybe that was just one fluke.
But then I used Handbrake to rip my DVDs, which was only available for Macs and Linux back then. It got hands down the best video quality ever using MPEG4. A LOT better than outdated AVI format. Then there was other stuff. iMovie blew the doors off of Windows Movie Maker. I also liked the fact that all the configuration controls were in one place (System Preferences), while on Windows everything was layered in the Control Panel, sometimes as much as six clicks away. In OS X, it's maybe 2 clicks and you're there.
Then I discovered Expose. Christ, if you've never seen Expose, take a look at this demonstration on YouTube.
I also like the fact that if you wanted to delete an app, you could just drag it to the trash or right click on it (yes, Macs have right click) and just select "Move to Trash." I also like the fact that I didn't have to install my Apps in one central location. Because OS X used plist domains instead of registry, you can just drag and drop an app on your desktop or move into a folder and it would still work regardless.
And then, finally I liked not having to run Spybot: Search and Destroy every day or Ad Aware. And I won't get too much in the whole BOSD controversy, but suffice to say, I was happy that no App was quite capable of crashing the entire OS.
"Psst, hey people - we'll PAY you to buy a Windows laptop!"
Smell the brand rot. Nice work, Microsoft!
I wonder if the NDA these people sign actually requires them to *keep* the computer (I know it forbids them from *talking* about it - because the last thing Microsoft wants people talking about is their actual experience using their products).
Me - as soon as the cameras stopped rolling I'd head back into Best Buy with my receipt for an instant $1500 rebate on a unibody MacBook. :)
Lets break it down: Processor: Vaio- C2D 2.4GHz w/ 1066MHz FSB, MBP- C2D 2.5GHz w/ 800MHz FSB Memory: Vaio- 4GB 800MHz, MBP- 4GB 667MHz Hard Drive: Vaio- 320GB 7200RPM MBP- 320GB 5200RPM Video Card: Vaio- Radeon 3650 512MB Dedicated MBP- Geforce 8600GT 512MB Dedicated Optical Drive: Vaio- Blu-Ray MBP- Standard DVD Burner Price: Vaio- $1299.99 MBP: $2699.99 :-O
Tell me what exactly i am getting for an additional $1400? No Blu-ray, slower HDD, slower memory, less efficient processor, and an outdated video processor?
Face it, Microsoft is giving Apple the biggest kick in the nuts possible. I can guarantee you that this Vaio computer is probably more than capable of running OSX86.
@ P.A.C. Man: Yes, they run more software because they run Windows, but PCs can't run Mac OS X because they lack Apple's firmware. Well, unless you got a Hackintosh, but that's something else. Otherwise they'd run the same amount of apps.
A decent mid to high level computing needs computer with a wide screen and Blu-ray support thrown in, not very good for gaming I would imagine with only an intel integrated graphics card though...
And they talk about the "Apple Tax", what about the "Sony Tax"?
First, you've quoted specs for the previous generation 17" MBP, not the new Unibody (which is the same MSRP as the one you linked to on NE). The 17" MBP doesn't come with a 2.5ghz processor. The base 17" has a 2.66. It also has a FSB of 1,066mhz. Second, the RAM is also 1,066mhz DDR3, not the 667mhz DDR2 you have listed. Get your facts straight.
Second, there's a lot of things you get on the MBP that you wouldn't get on the Vaio. Backlit keyboard, multi-touch trackpad, an LED backlit display (I'm pretty sure the Vaio isn't LED backlit anyway), a much better battery, the unibody design (for durability not aesthetics, although both could be considered true), two graphics modes (one for better battery life, one for better performance, and possibly a hybrid SLI mode with Snow Leopard), the magsafe power adaptor, magnetic latch, and firewire 800 (which is at least backwards compatible with 400).
These may not be things you want, or even need, but they're there, and you wanted to know what justifies the price difference. Some of them are small (the backlit keyboard/magsafe), and some of them are big (firewire), but all of them add to the overall experience. People who want those features will buy a Mac because they assign those features a higher value than those who don't want them.
@ P.A.C Man : They buy a MAC for OSX? Thats a load of BS. I have an X61 and I dual boot OSX and Win7 because I program apps for my iPhone (objective-C is the most horrifically terrible programming language I ever used btw). Leopard runs perfectly. Everything works. Did I pay an extra $1500 for it? No, but I can guarantee you that any Mac user would never dream of not having a computer not made by Apple! That would blasphemy!! They buy it because of brand loyalty. Which makes very little sense since I'm sure any corporation in the world couldn't care less about you personally....
Btw, those programs you mentioned above (itunes and imovie)....you compared them to the crap MS made and Winamp (Nero is a hell of a lot more powerful than anal iTunes ....). The beauty of windows is that I can google whatever program I want and I'll find one. Sure it might not be all shiny and have the apple logo on it and I might not get to have an erection while using it; but hey, it's just a computer.
"I find it amusing that PC users see Macs as toys, but as soon as you ask them why they love their PC so much, they immediately say, "Games!"
Uh, what?"
Even if Autodesk or McNeel made all of their software Mac compatible, I'd still us PC just because its the better bang-for-the-buck and I can build my own workstation. But playing games is nice too....
For $1500 more you get a faster processor with double the L2 cache, DDR3 1066MHz RAM, a better video card + integrated graphics for better battery life, a larger display and 230,400 more pixels, a lighter and thinner laptop, more battery life and OS X. Other than the Blu-ray drive and HDD speed, the Vaio is significantly inferior to the new MacBook Pro, hence the cheaper price.
You just compared the last generation of MacBook Pro, which is libel. Are you a bad person?
The current 17" MBP has a faster system bus, ram, processor, graphics (actually dual graphics chips) way better monitor, is thinner/lighter, much higher quality case materials and numerous other niceties that you can't get on any windows laptop.
These adds are comparing "value" hardware to "premium" hardware. You can also buy premium windows based hardware for similar prices.
For those that think Engadget is Mac biased, take note how every new Windows commercial is getting reported but Mac commercials are not reported.
1: Difference in those processor speeds/cache amounts and RAM speeds for everyday tasks is negligible. 2: These computers wont be running games like crysis, and the 3670 is a respectable card, so the difference is minor. 3: The difference between 1920 by 1200 vs 1080 is effectively nil. 4: Vista is a given with the other, so the OS comes down to taste really. 5: Battery is the mac is not user-servicible.
So for +$1500, you have essentially the same computer minus Blu-ray in a sexier case. Sounds like a bargain.
"In my experience, Mac apps are just better designed."
It's funny because nothing you said afterwards actually enforces that Mac apps ARE better designed. iTunes is a computation hog equally on both PCs and Macs. OK, Handbrake gave you MPEG-4 quality instead of AVI... which makes it better designed... how? And how does the ability to delete an app by moving it to the recycling bin make it better designed? So you can accidentally delete programs you've installed?
"I don't understand why people keep clinging to that "Macs won't run your software" myth. Macs now run MORE software than PCs."
I guess we'll just have to change the myth from "Macs won't run your software", to "Macs will run your software... just not as well as a PC".
Yet, Yago, Apple seems to have an obsession with PCs and Windows... I mean, in every single Mac vs PC ads, they mention one or the other, or both.
Get real, dude, recognizing the competition doesn't mean obsession, though Microsoft does it far more maturely and professionally in my opinion, because they're not just sitting there like pompous douche bags trying to slander the other company.
Negligible differences or not, the higher end parts still cost something. Just because you buy a product and you don't use it to its full potential, it doesn't make it over priced.
John, sorry for filling your inbox, but to all those people who are saying Microsoft is obsessed with Apple, Apple started the Mac vs. PC commercials if you recall...
Well, I guess not really at you in particular, but I wanted to pointing out something that your post made me think of.
The Macbook Pro's shouldn't be compared to these consumer grade computers. While I would tend to agree that those speed differences might be negligible in everyday tasks, the Pro's were designed with the professional market in mind. So to say that it would be negligible for the "real American" would probably be true, it would be missing the purpose of these notebooks all together.
@Mike Hooker: Who said anything about Macbook Pros? The ad clearly shows the mother and child looking at a range of Macs including the cheapest white Macbook that cracks so easily. They clearly decided that the Macs weren't good value for money, even when they could afford one.
It's not as stylish as the Apple, but the BOX wins from the Apple box designs. The brown board looks more ECO, and the minimalist print looks awesome. Give me the box please!
Ok, honestly if you want to compare apples to apples, don't compare mac to Sony, Everyone knows sony marks ALL of their products up by about 10-15% just for their name.
So we'll compare the most current MBp (17") to something of comparable sexiness, in this case, the AlienWare m17 I chose the alienware laptop as it is designed for what most pc users use their pc's for, gaming. I customized both so they had as identical of specs as I could make it. Item - Mac - m17
Processor - 2.66GHz Intel Core 2 Duo -- Intel® Core™2 T9600 2.8GHz --> Slight (I mean slight) advantage m17
RAM - # 4GB 1066MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 2x2GB - 4GB Dual Channel DDR3 1066MHz – 2 x 2048MB --> no real advantage (unless MBP is not dual channel...)
HDD - # 320GB Serial ATA Drive @ 5400 rpm - 320GB 7,200RPM (16MB Cache) - definitive advantage M17 (not a big change over all though)
Graphics - This one deserves some explanation. The MBP uses dual video cards NOT IN SLI! when it's not doing anything (ie surfing the net, writing stuff in MS Word) the MBP uses the discrete geforce 9400m (this is where they can boast UP TO(in labs) 8 hrs of battery life. When it's doing anything that requires hardware rendering (watching/making movies, editing photo's, playing games) it switches to the 9600M indiscrete graphics card, this will SIGNIFICANTLY drop the battery life (the 9400 uses 12 watts, the 9600 almost 25) I will use the latter for the MBP for the comparison
Graphics - NVIDIA 9600M GT 500MHz - 512MB ATI Mobility Radeon™ HD 3870 660MHZ --> advantage M17
Display 17" 1920x1200 antiglare, brightview on both --> Advantage MBP (it has an LED backlit display)
Keyboard - illuminated Mac standard - illuminated PC standard (choice of colours) --> No real advantage, but more individuality on the m17 (Wait, What? PC's more unique... wait? I chose green by the way...)
Output - I added this as you need to purchase these as extra's on the MBP where as every single PC (that supports it) has them standard
Output - # Apple Mini DisplayPort to DVI Adapter - Standard --> Advantage m17 (less things to carry around) Output 2 - # Mini DisplayPort to VGA Adapter - Standard --> See above ^^^
Warranty - 1 year parts, 90 phone - 1 year onsite repair, or replace and phone --> really Apple, 90 days phone, seriously?
I won't mention extra accessories, as they're kind of mute.
Price for the above configured systems MBP : $2,907.00 (US) M17 : $2,499.00 (US)
Now, I don't have actual benchmarks, but I wouldn't be too happy paying an extra $400 for a slower computer. The big differences here are going to be the following, MBP has a better (when surfing the net) battery life, but when you power them both up to full, and start watching a DVD on the player, up-converting it to HD, they'll both crap out after about an hour (No, the MBP is not that great, I'm sorry) I can't find the exact specs on the MBP battery, the best I could find is that it's a 95Watt hour lithium-polymer, the M17 is a 12 Cell Lithium-ION Battery. Apple also notes that the 8 hours was attained with battery savings at the max, screen brightness to 50%, while surfing the net, and typing text documents (50/50 split time wise) wireless turned off during text editing, using a PRE-PRODUCTION model unit...
I will admit this, the screen on the MBP is better, but only because it is an led backlit screen, the TFT it's self is most likely made in the same plan as every other TFT over in Malaysia somewhere...
I will also give the touchpad to the mac, it is a nice touchpad, and it has dual touch with is nice.
Design, No winner, personally I prefer the skullcap design on the Alienware notebook, but everyone's different, No winner here.
After Warranty Service, and Warranty. Apple doesn't exactly have the best warranty system, of all my friends who have had Ipod's , almost all of them have had them die, and when they went to get them fixed, they had to jump through hoops, wait a long time (3 months for one of my friends with an old IPod classic) and generally go through hell, just to get their product serviced by apple. I can't say if this is the case for their Laptops, I only know 2 people who own Apples, one is a fan boy, and buys a new MBP every year, the other is my dad, and he works for apple... I can only hope that their warranty is not as bad as their IPod warranties. Alienware, their warranty is done by Dell (ouch) but, they offer the following, standard, 1 year 24hour phone support (fine, it's most likely in India, but still...) 1 year on site repair/ replacement (yeah, they come to you, not the other way around, no shipping) and lifetime online support. Also, alienware covers their screens, Apple, nope... 3 years is available from both 349 for apple, 299 for alienware...
I kind of have to give it to alienware for this one, but only because the service is on site.
Finally, performance. This is done purely based on provided specs, and includes portability, gaming performance, battery life, business performance, and Video performance. First, Portability. The MBP weighs under 6.5lbs, where as the m17 weighs almost 10lbs (9.5) definiate advantage MBP, but I will mention that the MBP does NOT have a shock proof HDD (bad choice) where as the m17 has free fall protection (locks the read/write heads if it detects falling motion), while this is a definite oversight on Apples part, it's not enough to make up for the extra 3lbs you have to carry around on your back.
Gaming performance. Apple chose not to do full SLI, in exchange for Hybrid SLI for better battery life, this won't necessarily hinder the MBP, but it definitely won't give it an advantage. Pure specs wise, same RAM, better Graphics, slightly faster CPU, quicker HDD - with more Cache memory, I'm going to give advantage to the M17 here (again, these are based purely on written specs of the configured computers.)
Battery Life and Usability On a 17" Laptop there's no excuse not to use a full keyboard, fortunately, Alienware chose to add a full keyboard, almost, Apple...not even close. Personally I can't stand Apple's keyboards, but that's a personal choice, but, I will say, I own the Logitech g15 keyboard, and knowing that alienware uses this keyboard as a base for their laptops, great choice alienware. The M17 does, unfortunately, come with Windows Vista (yes, vista is a bad OS) Fortunately, Microsoft will be offering free (or semi free, not confirmed yet) upgrades to windows 7 to all owners of legitimate copies of windows vista (pre-bundled, or box purchased copies), the MBP obviously comes with Leopard. OS, personal choice. Battery life, well, going purely on claims alone, the MBP goes for about 7 hours (comparing using the 9600m gt Discrete graphics card in the MBP) where as the m17 only goes for about 2-3hrs. Advantage here will go to the MBP, but only slightly.
Business Performance. Having the faster HDD, with the larger cache means that apps will load faster on the M17, but that's about it, the rest will be even, both sport 4gb ram of the DDR3 1066 variety, both have core 2 duo processors, and both sport competent Chipsets. This one's a tie, simply because Leopard's OS speed will make up for the difference in HDD speeds.
Finally Video Performance The 3870 is a much higher end graphics chip than the 9600m gt, and will process video far better, the M17 will also allow you to configure the laptop with 2 of them in crossfire (add $249US to the bill) I didn't do that as the MBP doesn't have SLI'd video cards. However, to get output from the MBP, you need to buy dongles, with the M17 you don't. Also, and most importantly for a MultiMedia computer, the M17 comes with a standard HDMI out port, MBP... for some reason, just forgot to add it, or provide a dongle... Apple, really??? This one, definitely goes to the M17
I could also toss in a backwards compatibility comparison, but that's just a kick to the nuts for apple, and really isn't necessary.
Final words
That was basically a VERY long winded way for me to say that when comparing 2 similarly spec'd computers, the PC comes out on top, but computers are down to preference, spec's and price alone can't be your deciding factor in computers, you need to buy what you want. If you prefer apple's OSX operating system, or style of computer, by an Apple, if you're more into being able to put whatever hardware you want together, go with a PC, and choose your favorite linux distro... Or windows version. Finally, if you want to be able to run those programs from back in the 90's, get windows XP... If you're not sure which to go for, buy the one you want, but keep in mind, certain logo's cost money, Apple's happens to be one of them, so does sony's....
When I read, "...a shareware app to convert my MP3s to WAV..." I concluded that you are an idiot. Just like buying a Mac, more money for same performance, converting an MP3 to WAV is just a larger file that sounds EXACTLY the same as an MP3.... You don't convert lossy to lossless...
@PAC Man: are you trying to convince us that all pc's are plastic budget machines? I think the design of the macbook is wonderful (love the magnetic power plug and slot load drive if they dont fail on you), but its ignorant to say that pc's aren't getting better, a lot of the sony's are really designed very well. I dunno, cant think of anything that stands out, but Its really not as bad as you'd like to think.
Hell, I bought a $600 Acer aspire AS4530 when it dropped to $450 online, and I think its great for what I do with it, which is nothing computing intensive. I leave gaming and music production to my powerhouse home built desktop.
The Rip is the latest addition to the Boogie eWriter line, devices that let you scribble notes and drawings and can be wiped away with the press of a button.
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Sony? Vaio? affordable? Crazy.
Yeah, she probably got ripped off. Good thing its not her money.
Compared to the rip off macbook everything is affordable trust me
A bet that pink one was a much better pick than this Vaio :D
I find it amusing that PC users see Macs as toys, but as soon as you ask them why they love their PC so much, they immediately say, "Games!"
Uh, what?
The pink one *was* a Vaio.
HAHA thats what I always think P.A.C. man
20+ year old "gamers" (is that a title? to me it sounds like a diss) yappin about needing gaming power in a computer
at that point, you have to run upstairs, tell your mom that you're not hungry for that hot pocket anymore and get a girl and a job
that MS Sony whatever is gonna freeze up in about 5,4,3,2...
Well isn't Microsoft obsessed about Apple? On all 3 ads they start by mentioning Apple...
For a small player that doesn't matter at all, as Microsoft said, Microsoft can't stop talking about them... uffff... I guess that means a lot.
(Before someone mentions it: of course Apple attacked Microsoft in its ads: Microsoft has 90% of the pc market... and yes, Apple computers are pcs... they were even before IBM thought about it.)
no they aren't as overpriced, at least not some models
I suspect this is the model they grabbed;
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834117857
as for the idiots arguing about DVD vs Blu-Ray below, yes you can tell the difference between them on a 1280x800 screen, but that said the FW has a 1920x1080 screen
...and every single Mac fanboy pops in here saying "OMG Microsoft has an obsession with Apple!"
*sigh* Is that the best you can do? These apps are beating opinions of Apple to a pulp.
@briant
and doesn't Microsoft have an obsession about Apple? And doesn't it mean something?
What's your point?
Apple fanboys may say a lot of things... bur right now, Microsoft is saying a lot about how Apple is freaking them out.
Well, I don't think these ads are going to have the desired effect. They're aimed at cheapskates. Cheapskates don't buy Macs in the first place.
And you know what, Payless shoes are cheaper than a pair of New Balance. I could probably buy five pairs of Payless shoes for the price of a comfortable pair of New Balance, but you know what, I'd never do that because the soles of the Payless shoes are going to start peeling off a week after you buy them. And that's stupid. Why not buy the higher priced quality brand and save money in the long term?
To me, these new ads are attempting to make something as crappy as Payless, look like a great deal. It ain't gonna work with anyone with half a brain and a decent job.
Yeah P.A.C. Man I am sure almost every major corporation is thinking about games when they purchase new MS boxes because Mac's wont run their software.
@P.A.C Man
I hear labs are offering a free choice of any $1500 or less computer in exchange for 1/2 of your brain. Apparently some people really are desperate.
@PACman
Bingo!
Vaios are great computers, no doubt.
But I'm quite sure that in 10 years you would have replaced the Vaio with another PC, and already replaced that other PC with another one...
On the other hand, I'm still playing with my PowerBook, running Leopard without a hickup...
Windows PCs are for people who like to throw their money of the window... ;)
Am I the only one wondering what the price on that unit was? No mention of it in the commercial, unlike the first two in which they were pretty clear on what the units costs these "real life people". The 355 comes in at just under $1,129, but if I was a "gamer", wouldn't I want the 378? Despite it pushing the $1500 limit at tad over $1,429 (Maybe they can come out with new commercials that give people $1,550). I mean, it would benefit to have the faster CPU and FSB if I was too run power-hungry games on it. Higher resolution would also be to my liking.
I guess MS has stopped worrying about sticking closer to facts, less on contradictions, and to focus more on what they (Ballmer) are good at: Slinging mud with broken glass and bits of metal in it.
I don't understand why people keep clinging to that "Macs won't run your software" myth. Macs now run MORE software than PCs, due to utilities like boot camp, which allows you to run Windows NATIVELY on your Mac. You might not have noticed this unless you work in an office, but now businesses are allowing people to have Macs in the workplace BECAUSE they can run Windows.
I use Windows, but I use it for a few games and that's it. There isn't one piece of software that's better on the Windows side. In my experience, Mac apps are just better designed. For example, when I first switched to Mac, I immediately started looking for music software, so I naturally I tried out iTunes, which I had never used on the PC side. Up to that point I used WinAmp to listen to music, a shareware app to convert my MP3s to WAV and Nero to burn a CD. iTunes did all of that in one app. Okay, but iTunes is available for PCs, right, so maybe that was just one fluke.
But then I used Handbrake to rip my DVDs, which was only available for Macs and Linux back then. It got hands down the best video quality ever using MPEG4. A LOT better than outdated AVI format. Then there was other stuff. iMovie blew the doors off of Windows Movie Maker. I also liked the fact that all the configuration controls were in one place (System Preferences), while on Windows everything was layered in the Control Panel, sometimes as much as six clicks away. In OS X, it's maybe 2 clicks and you're there.
Then I discovered Expose. Christ, if you've never seen Expose, take a look at this demonstration on YouTube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktTNcj0fAM4
I also like the fact that if you wanted to delete an app, you could just drag it to the trash or right click on it (yes, Macs have right click) and just select "Move to Trash." I also like the fact that I didn't have to install my Apps in one central location. Because OS X used plist domains instead of registry, you can just drag and drop an app on your desktop or move into a folder and it would still work regardless.
And then, finally I liked not having to run Spybot: Search and Destroy every day or Ad Aware. And I won't get too much in the whole BOSD controversy, but suffice to say, I was happy that no App was quite capable of crashing the entire OS.
"Psst, hey people - we'll PAY you to buy a Windows laptop!"
Smell the brand rot. Nice work, Microsoft!
I wonder if the NDA these people sign actually requires them to *keep* the computer (I know it forbids them from *talking* about it - because the last thing Microsoft wants people talking about is their actual experience using their products).
Me - as soon as the cameras stopped rolling I'd head back into Best Buy with my receipt for an instant $1500 rebate on a unibody MacBook. :)
@JohnTitor
Yeah the equivalent of the Sony laptop they bought is the Macbook Pro 17in with the C2D 2.5GHz
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834100045
Lets break it down:
Processor: Vaio- C2D 2.4GHz w/ 1066MHz FSB, MBP- C2D 2.5GHz w/ 800MHz FSB
Memory: Vaio- 4GB 800MHz, MBP- 4GB 667MHz
Hard Drive: Vaio- 320GB 7200RPM MBP- 320GB 5200RPM
Video Card: Vaio- Radeon 3650 512MB Dedicated MBP- Geforce 8600GT 512MB Dedicated
Optical Drive: Vaio- Blu-Ray MBP- Standard DVD Burner
Price: Vaio- $1299.99 MBP: $2699.99 :-O
Tell me what exactly i am getting for an additional $1400? No Blu-ray, slower HDD, slower memory, less efficient processor, and an outdated video processor?
Face it, Microsoft is giving Apple the biggest kick in the nuts possible. I can guarantee you that this Vaio computer is probably more than capable of running OSX86.
More affordable and practical than a MAC.
so... why does apple have boot camp to run windows...
when they claim that their OS is suppsoedly the best?
isn't that kinda... hypocritical?
The same problem with all these ads is that they're advertising computers that run Windows. People don't buy Macs for specs, they buy them for OS X.
@ P.A.C. Man:
Yes, they run more software because they run Windows, but PCs can't run Mac OS X because they lack Apple's firmware.
Well, unless you got a Hackintosh, but that's something else. Otherwise they'd run the same amount of apps.
More than likely since they are at a Best Buy and most stores only cary one VAIO widescreen w/ blu-ray right now, it is the:
$899 VGN FW-351J/H
with an Intel Centrino C2D T6400 processor, 4GB DDR2 Ram, 320GB HD, 802.11a/b/g/n and Bluetooth 2.1 + EDR, DVD±RW/BD-ROM, and an integrated Mobile Intel Graphics Media Accelerator 4500MHD w/ HDMI out (Link: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=9156557&st=9156557&lp=1&type=product&cp=1&id=1218038552017)
A decent mid to high level computing needs computer with a wide screen and Blu-ray support thrown in, not very good for gaming I would imagine with only an intel integrated graphics card though...
And they talk about the "Apple Tax", what about the "Sony Tax"?
They need the savings they get from not buying the Mapple Crackbook
So they can get kid a haircut....
C'mon guys, this is the computer they were looking at: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=9156557&st=sony+fw&lp=2&type=product&cp=1&id=1218038552017
Obviously it is NOT a 1080p screen.
It is NOT good for gaming (Intel 4500MHD)
I mean c'mon. This is stupid.
@setnev
First, you've quoted specs for the previous generation 17" MBP, not the new Unibody (which is the same MSRP as the one you linked to on NE). The 17" MBP doesn't come with a 2.5ghz processor. The base 17" has a 2.66. It also has a FSB of 1,066mhz. Second, the RAM is also 1,066mhz DDR3, not the 667mhz DDR2 you have listed. Get your facts straight.
Second, there's a lot of things you get on the MBP that you wouldn't get on the Vaio. Backlit keyboard, multi-touch trackpad, an LED backlit display (I'm pretty sure the Vaio isn't LED backlit anyway), a much better battery, the unibody design (for durability not aesthetics, although both could be considered true), two graphics modes (one for better battery life, one for better performance, and possibly a hybrid SLI mode with Snow Leopard), the magsafe power adaptor, magnetic latch, and firewire 800 (which is at least backwards compatible with 400).
These may not be things you want, or even need, but they're there, and you wanted to know what justifies the price difference. Some of them are small (the backlit keyboard/magsafe), and some of them are big (firewire), but all of them add to the overall experience. People who want those features will buy a Mac because they assign those features a higher value than those who don't want them.
@ P.A.C Man : They buy a MAC for OSX? Thats a load of BS. I have an X61 and I dual boot OSX and Win7 because I program apps for my iPhone (objective-C is the most horrifically terrible programming language I ever used btw). Leopard runs perfectly. Everything works. Did I pay an extra $1500 for it? No, but I can guarantee you that any Mac user would never dream of not having a computer not made by Apple! That would blasphemy!! They buy it because of brand loyalty. Which makes very little sense since I'm sure any corporation in the world couldn't care less about you personally....
Btw, those programs you mentioned above (itunes and imovie)....you compared them to the crap MS made and Winamp (Nero is a hell of a lot more powerful than anal iTunes ....). The beauty of windows is that I can google whatever program I want and I'll find one. Sure it might not be all shiny and have the apple logo on it and I might not get to have an erection while using it; but hey, it's just a computer.
@ P.A.C Man
"I find it amusing that PC users see Macs as toys, but as soon as you ask them why they love their PC so much, they immediately say, "Games!"
Uh, what?"
Even if Autodesk or McNeel made all of their software Mac compatible, I'd still us PC just because its the better bang-for-the-buck and I can build my own workstation. But playing games is nice too....
@Setnev
You are comparing the Vaio to the previous generation MacBook Pro. Here is the correct comparision:
Lets break it down:
Processor: Vaio- C2D 2.4GHz w/ 1066MHz FSB 3MB L2 cache, MBP- C2D 2.66GHz w/ 1066MHz FSB 6M L2 cache
Memory: Vaio- 4GB DDR2 800MHz, MBP- 4GB DDR3 1066MHz
Hard Drive: Vaio- 320GB 7200RPM MBP- 320GB 5200RPM
Video Card: Vaio- Radeon 3650 512MB Dedicated MBP- Geforce 9600MGT 512MB Dedicated + 9400M
Display: Vaio- 16.4" 1920*1080, MBP- 17" 1920*1200
Weight: Vaio- 7lbs, MBP- 6.6lbs
Thickness: Vaio- 1.14"-1.46", MBP- 0.98"
Battery: Vaio- 2.5 - 5.5 hours, MBP- 8 hours
Optical Drive: Vaio- Blu-Ray MBP- Standard DVD Burner
Price: Vaio- $1299.99 MBP: $2799.99
For $1500 more you get a faster processor with double the L2 cache, DDR3 1066MHz RAM, a better video card + integrated graphics for better battery life, a larger display and 230,400 more pixels, a lighter and thinner laptop, more battery life and OS X. Other than the Blu-ray drive and HDD speed, the Vaio is significantly inferior to the new MacBook Pro, hence the cheaper price.
@Setnev,
You just compared the last generation of MacBook Pro, which is libel. Are you a bad person?
The current 17" MBP has a faster system bus, ram, processor, graphics (actually dual graphics chips) way better monitor, is thinner/lighter, much higher quality case materials and numerous other niceties that you can't get on any windows laptop.
These adds are comparing "value" hardware to "premium" hardware. You can also buy premium windows based hardware for similar prices.
For those that think Engadget is Mac biased, take note how every new Windows commercial is getting reported but Mac commercials are not reported.
not that you're wrong, but does that really justify being more than twice the price?
People People People.... we all know the main difference with Mac and PC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHO8l-Bd1O4
@ PAC Man
That is because Mac people have bootcamp to play games.
jstevens:
1: Difference in those processor speeds/cache amounts and RAM speeds for everyday tasks is negligible.
2: These computers wont be running games like crysis, and the 3670 is a respectable card, so the difference is minor.
3: The difference between 1920 by 1200 vs 1080 is effectively nil.
4: Vista is a given with the other, so the OS comes down to taste really.
5: Battery is the mac is not user-servicible.
So for +$1500, you have essentially the same computer minus Blu-ray in a sexier case. Sounds like a bargain.
@P.A.C Man
"In my experience, Mac apps are just better designed."
It's funny because nothing you said afterwards actually enforces that Mac apps ARE better designed. iTunes is a computation hog equally on both PCs and Macs. OK, Handbrake gave you MPEG-4 quality instead of AVI... which makes it better designed... how? And how does the ability to delete an app by moving it to the recycling bin make it better designed? So you can accidentally delete programs you've installed?
"I don't understand why people keep clinging to that "Macs won't run your software" myth. Macs now run MORE software than PCs."
I guess we'll just have to change the myth from "Macs won't run your software", to "Macs will run your software... just not as well as a PC".
Yet, Yago, Apple seems to have an obsession with PCs and Windows... I mean, in every single Mac vs PC ads, they mention one or the other, or both.
Get real, dude, recognizing the competition doesn't mean obsession, though Microsoft does it far more maturely and professionally in my opinion, because they're not just sitting there like pompous douche bags trying to slander the other company.
@A.Welsh:
Negligible differences or not, the higher end parts still cost something. Just because you buy a product and you don't use it to its full potential, it doesn't make it over priced.
John, sorry for filling your inbox, but to all those people who are saying Microsoft is obsessed with Apple, Apple started the Mac vs. PC commercials if you recall...
@A.Welsh
Well, I guess not really at you in particular, but I wanted to pointing out something that your post made me think of.
The Macbook Pro's shouldn't be compared to these consumer grade computers. While I would tend to agree that those speed differences might be negligible in everyday tasks, the Pro's were designed with the professional market in mind. So to say that it would be negligible for the "real American" would probably be true, it would be missing the purpose of these notebooks all together.
@Mike Hooker: Who said anything about Macbook Pros? The ad clearly shows the mother and child looking at a range of Macs including the cheapest white Macbook that cracks so easily. They clearly decided that the Macs weren't good value for money, even when they could afford one.
It's not as stylish as the Apple, but the BOX wins from the Apple box designs. The brown board looks more ECO, and the minimalist print looks awesome. Give me the box please!
Ok, honestly if you want to compare apples to apples, don't compare mac to Sony, Everyone knows sony marks ALL of their products up by about 10-15% just for their name.
So we'll compare the most current MBp (17") to something of comparable sexiness, in this case, the AlienWare m17
I chose the alienware laptop as it is designed for what most pc users use their pc's for, gaming.
I customized both so they had as identical of specs as I could make it.
Item - Mac - m17
Processor - 2.66GHz Intel Core 2 Duo -- Intel® Core™2 T9600 2.8GHz --> Slight (I mean slight) advantage m17
RAM - # 4GB 1066MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 2x2GB - 4GB Dual Channel DDR3 1066MHz – 2 x 2048MB --> no real advantage (unless MBP is not dual channel...)
HDD - # 320GB Serial ATA Drive @ 5400 rpm - 320GB 7,200RPM (16MB Cache) - definitive advantage M17 (not a big change over all though)
Graphics - This one deserves some explanation.
The MBP uses dual video cards NOT IN SLI!
when it's not doing anything (ie surfing the net, writing stuff in MS Word) the MBP uses the discrete geforce 9400m (this is where they can boast UP TO(in labs) 8 hrs of battery life. When it's doing anything that requires hardware rendering (watching/making movies, editing photo's, playing games) it switches to the 9600M indiscrete graphics card, this will SIGNIFICANTLY drop the battery life (the 9400 uses 12 watts, the 9600 almost 25)
I will use the latter for the MBP for the comparison
Graphics - NVIDIA 9600M GT 500MHz - 512MB ATI Mobility Radeon™ HD 3870 660MHZ --> advantage M17
Display 17" 1920x1200 antiglare, brightview on both --> Advantage MBP (it has an LED backlit display)
Keyboard - illuminated Mac standard - illuminated PC standard (choice of colours) --> No real advantage, but more individuality on the m17 (Wait, What? PC's more unique... wait? I chose green by the way...)
Output - I added this as you need to purchase these as extra's on the MBP where as every single PC (that supports it) has them standard
Output - # Apple Mini DisplayPort to DVI Adapter - Standard --> Advantage m17 (less things to carry around)
Output 2 - # Mini DisplayPort to VGA Adapter - Standard --> See above ^^^
Warranty - 1 year parts, 90 phone - 1 year onsite repair, or replace and phone --> really Apple, 90 days phone, seriously?
I won't mention extra accessories, as they're kind of mute.
Price for the above configured systems
MBP : $2,907.00 (US)
M17 : $2,499.00 (US)
Now, I don't have actual benchmarks, but I wouldn't be too happy paying an extra $400 for a slower computer.
The big differences here are going to be the following, MBP has a better (when surfing the net) battery life, but when you power them both up to full, and start watching a DVD on the player, up-converting it to HD, they'll both crap out after about an hour (No, the MBP is not that great, I'm sorry) I can't find the exact specs on the MBP battery, the best I could find is that it's a 95Watt hour lithium-polymer, the M17 is a 12 Cell Lithium-ION Battery.
Apple also notes that the 8 hours was attained with battery savings at the max, screen brightness to 50%, while surfing the net, and typing text documents (50/50 split time wise) wireless turned off during text editing, using a PRE-PRODUCTION model unit...
I will admit this, the screen on the MBP is better, but only because it is an led backlit screen, the TFT it's self is most likely made in the same plan as every other TFT over in Malaysia somewhere...
I will also give the touchpad to the mac, it is a nice touchpad, and it has dual touch with is nice.
Design, No winner, personally I prefer the skullcap design on the Alienware notebook, but everyone's different, No winner here.
After Warranty Service, and Warranty.
Apple doesn't exactly have the best warranty system, of all my friends who have had Ipod's , almost all of them have had them die, and when they went to get them fixed, they had to jump through hoops, wait a long time (3 months for one of my friends with an old IPod classic) and generally go through hell, just to get their product serviced by apple. I can't say if this is the case for their Laptops, I only know 2 people who own Apples, one is a fan boy, and buys a new MBP every year, the other is my dad, and he works for apple... I can only hope that their warranty is not as bad as their IPod warranties.
Alienware, their warranty is done by Dell (ouch) but, they offer the following, standard, 1 year 24hour phone support (fine, it's most likely in India, but still...) 1 year on site repair/ replacement (yeah, they come to you, not the other way around, no shipping) and lifetime online support. Also, alienware covers their screens, Apple, nope...
3 years is available from both 349 for apple, 299 for alienware...
I kind of have to give it to alienware for this one, but only because the service is on site.
Finally, performance.
This is done purely based on provided specs, and includes portability, gaming performance, battery life, business performance, and Video performance.
First, Portability.
The MBP weighs under 6.5lbs, where as the m17 weighs almost 10lbs (9.5) definiate advantage MBP, but I will mention that the MBP does NOT have a shock proof HDD (bad choice) where as the m17 has free fall protection (locks the read/write heads if it detects falling motion), while this is a definite oversight on Apples part, it's not enough to make up for the extra 3lbs you have to carry around on your back.
Gaming performance.
Apple chose not to do full SLI, in exchange for Hybrid SLI for better battery life, this won't necessarily hinder the MBP, but it definitely won't give it an advantage. Pure specs wise, same RAM, better Graphics, slightly faster CPU, quicker HDD - with more Cache memory, I'm going to give advantage to the M17 here (again, these are based purely on written specs of the configured computers.)
Battery Life and Usability
On a 17" Laptop there's no excuse not to use a full keyboard, fortunately, Alienware chose to add a full keyboard, almost, Apple...not even close. Personally I can't stand Apple's keyboards, but that's a personal choice, but, I will say, I own the Logitech g15 keyboard, and knowing that alienware uses this keyboard as a base for their laptops, great choice alienware. The M17 does, unfortunately, come with Windows Vista (yes, vista is a bad OS) Fortunately, Microsoft will be offering free (or semi free, not confirmed yet) upgrades to windows 7 to all owners of legitimate copies of windows vista (pre-bundled, or box purchased copies), the MBP obviously comes with Leopard. OS, personal choice. Battery life, well, going purely on claims alone, the MBP goes for about 7 hours (comparing using the 9600m gt Discrete graphics card in the MBP) where as the m17 only goes for about 2-3hrs. Advantage here will go to the MBP, but only slightly.
Business Performance.
Having the faster HDD, with the larger cache means that apps will load faster on the M17, but that's about it, the rest will be even, both sport 4gb ram of the DDR3 1066 variety, both have core 2 duo processors, and both sport competent Chipsets. This one's a tie, simply because Leopard's OS speed will make up for the difference in HDD speeds.
Finally Video Performance
The 3870 is a much higher end graphics chip than the 9600m gt, and will process video far better, the M17 will also allow you to configure the laptop with 2 of them in crossfire (add $249US to the bill) I didn't do that as the MBP doesn't have SLI'd video cards.
However, to get output from the MBP, you need to buy dongles, with the M17 you don't. Also, and most importantly for a MultiMedia computer, the M17 comes with a standard HDMI out port, MBP... for some reason, just forgot to add it, or provide a dongle... Apple, really??? This one, definitely goes to the M17
I could also toss in a backwards compatibility comparison, but that's just a kick to the nuts for apple, and really isn't necessary.
Final words
That was basically a VERY long winded way for me to say that when comparing 2 similarly spec'd computers, the PC comes out on top, but computers are down to preference, spec's and price alone can't be your deciding factor in computers, you need to buy what you want. If you prefer apple's OSX operating system, or style of computer, by an Apple, if you're more into being able to put whatever hardware you want together, go with a PC, and choose your favorite linux distro... Or windows version. Finally, if you want to be able to run those programs from back in the 90's, get windows XP... If you're not sure which to go for, buy the one you want, but keep in mind, certain logo's cost money, Apple's happens to be one of them, so does sony's....
Vaio? its like the macs of PC, overpriced and pretty! THE VAIO GIVES NO BANG FOR THE BUCK!!!
Too many emotions.
John, I pity your inbox. (I'm not helping, I know)
Sigh... The Eternal Debate Continues... Guys, seriously, you must all read up on the Bible and the Quran, the answer is probably somewhere in there.
@ PAC Man
When I read, "...a shareware app to convert my MP3s to WAV..." I concluded that you are an idiot. Just like buying a Mac, more money for same performance, converting an MP3 to WAV is just a larger file that sounds EXACTLY the same as an MP3.... You don't convert lossy to lossless...
I love that Mac users see PC's as being for business only, and yet the PC is the only feasible platform for gamers.
@DR House, whats funny is house uses a Mac.
@PAC Man: are you trying to convince us that all pc's are plastic budget machines? I think the design of the macbook is wonderful (love the magnetic power plug and slot load drive if they dont fail on you), but its ignorant to say that pc's aren't getting better, a lot of the sony's are really designed very well. I dunno, cant think of anything that stands out, but Its really not as bad as you'd like to think.
Hell, I bought a $600 Acer aspire AS4530 when it dropped to $450 online, and I think its great for what I do with it, which is nothing computing intensive. I leave gaming and music production to my powerhouse home built desktop.