hopefully you will wake on the right side of the bed and without your fanboy-ism that despises any competition. New products are good! they keep everybody on their toes and promote creativity.
Regrettable for the consumer, Apple is SO far ahead with their iPod line with the iTouch and specifically the App store that I can't even imagine a realistic way for Microsoft, or any other company for that matter, to even make a dent in the Apple PMP kingdom. We would all benefit if a true competitor could force even more innovation from Cupertino.
I wonder how well Skype and Truphone run on the Zune HD? Or how good the web browser is.. Just want to focus on the media playback capabilities? Then the ability to use Pandora and Last.fm alone should kill any desire for a Zune if you have an active brain cell in your head.
Now keep in mind that I'm talking about a device that's basically unchanged from it's release well over a YEAR ago, that has a good chance of a major overhaul along with the new iPhone, and you have yet another Zune that's dead on arrival. Good god Microsoft, is it THAT hard for a multi-billion dollar company to make a successful PMP? This is getting ridiculous.
Yeah rank it down, keep pushing that minus button, make it disappear. Don't bother trying to refute even one statement with a logical argument. I'm sure the truth hurts.
Remember the year 2001, when Sony was the undisputed king of console gaming?
Microsoft then released the Xbox, which, while it didn't come anywhere close in sales numbers, still sold 24 million units, putting it in second place.
Fast forward to now. They're in last place. Why? They got complacent and thought that people would pay lots more money for the name "Playstation."
Remember 2006, when Apple was the undisputed king of the PMP market?
Microsoft then released the Zune, which, while it didn't come anywhere close in sales numbers, has now sold over 3 million units, putting it in second place in PMP market share.
Stranger things have happened. I say, go Microsoft! I'm always for competition in the market. If this is real, and it's a compelling product, I'll buy it. I've been very satisfied with my Zune 80, so I'm definitely willing to stick to the brand.
@dave I think somewhat unfortunately that was years ago, and not on a Windows PC =( iTunes has been getting ever more bloated and pathetic, especially for Windows. And Apple just keeps removing features from it (like the ability to remove the stupid little link the itunes store so you don't accidentally click it when trying to change tracks, or the genre link, etc.) so you'll spend more money. Lame as hell.
If MS can release a seriously upgraded music management program that doesn't run like a$$ I'd switch in a heartbeat. Please MS!!!
Sony has NEVER been the undisputed king of gaming consoles. Did you forget about the little company known as Nintendo? And the difference between it and the Zune is that the first XBOX wasn't terrible. Microsoft saw what they thought the market was lacking and tried to fill the void with their product.
Go back to 2006 and take a look at the little (literally) console known as the "Wii". If you would have shown any out of touch nerd (basically everyone on Engadget) the specs on paper at the time and they would have immediately labeled it as a joke - unable to compete with the XBOX or Playsation on any front. While Microsoft and Sony were busy cramming every possible feature and capability under the sun into their next gaming system, Nintendo was focusing solely on the "user experience" (sound like any other company you know about?). Satoru Iwata saw very early on that a device solely relying on technical prowess would never stand up to a one that offered the user a unique and intuitive experience (noticing the parallels?). They knew that you can't just come into the game with the right technical specs, you have to bring something truly enjoyable to use - and that's something you can't just throw money at to accomplish. So how well did this gamble work out? By the end of 2008, the Wii had more than DOUBLED the XBOX 360's numbers. 10.2 vs 4.7 million units sold.
On top of all of that, the XBOX is a HORRIBLE example of success as defined by a business. It took almost a DECADE (7 years) to make the XBOX unit profitable. From it's inception in 2001 until 2008 it actually cost Microsoft money to stay in the gaming business because they used the same logic with it that that use with every other product: Throw money at it, listen to out of touch nerds and engineers, and focus entirely on technical aspects; leaving minimal time for developing the entire user experience. Setting aside the massive discrepancy in units sold, if you're strictly addressing how much money Nintendo has made from it's consoles (and we can just count from 2001 on up to be fair) vs Microsoft (especially if Microsoft keeps up the same spec war) I dare say none of us will ever live to see the day they even approach the kind of numbers Nintendo has.
And I guess none of you bothered to even read my first comment because the entire point of it was that I truly want someone to genuinely challenge Apple's iPod line. The consumer would only benefit from it from specs all the way down to price. It makes me sick that you guys let Microsoft get away with the shit their churning out of the Zune department. All that does is validate in their minds that if they can manage to release even the most mediocre of product, you'll still eat it up like pigs over a slop bucket. You're so set on not buying Apple that you'll buy any alternative, no matter how bad it is (relatively speaking). Don't put up with their shit! DEMAND better Zunes! The current (and most likely soon to be upgraded) iPod Touch is LEAPS AND BOUNDS ahead of the Zune and I can guarantee that this new model won't have anything close to the App store.
You're so in touch though, right? You need to get out of your house, get on your skateboard (or whatever kids these days ride --- one of those slithery boards?) and go to the mall and talk to girls. They're not THAT bad, really.
"On top of all of that, the XBOX is a HORRIBLE example of success as defined by a business. It took almost a DECADE (7 years) to make the XBOX unit profitable."
Maybe if the "Xbox" was developed by a standalone company.
Now everyone knows what an Xbox is, and that its made by Microsoft. Most people I know love it, too.
The brand recognition alone is enough for Microsoft -- they don't need it to be profitable. Consider it marketing, if you want.
"Sony has NEVER been the undisputed king of gaming consoles. Did you forget about the little company known as Nintendo? And the difference between it and the Zune is that the first XBOX wasn't terrible."
1) The PS2 had such a MASSIVE market share back in its prime that the GameCube, for all practical purposes, wasn't even on the map. It had no prayer of competing because Sony really was the undisputed master of the home console market in the first half of the decade, nobody could imagine any way that somebody could realistically compete with them.
2) The Zune is NOT terrible. I was a long-time iPod user until I received a flash Zune, and I was absolutely shocked at how much better it is than an iPod. The desktop software is lightyears better than iTunes, the player is significantly more user friendly, the sound quality is superior, and they have an awesome subscription music service. The only category where the iPod wins is in peripheral support, trying to find something with a built-in Zune dock is nearly impossible.
utahnkid, we don't know the specs or the performance of the new Zune yet. How about reserving judgement? That big screen and "HD" sound yummy so lets see what they have to offer.
Now that we've thrown 'em off the trail, use the form below to get in touch with the people at Engadget. Please fill in all of the required fields because they're required.
Cute. Wake me up when the next-gen iPod Touch comes out...
hopefully you will wake on the right side of the bed and without your fanboy-ism that despises any competition. New products are good! they keep everybody on their toes and promote creativity.
Wake ME up when iTunes doesn't suck.
Quick, steal his keyboard while he's asleep!
Wake me up when iPod people stop being D-bags in Zune threads.
Wake me up when the irritating fanboys on both sides decide to STFU and get along for a change.
wake ME up, before you go go.
Wake me up when september ends
GO GO POWER RANGERS
Regrettable for the consumer, Apple is SO far ahead with their iPod line with the iTouch and specifically the App store that I can't even imagine a realistic way for Microsoft, or any other company for that matter, to even make a dent in the Apple PMP kingdom. We would all benefit if a true competitor could force even more innovation from Cupertino.
I wonder how well Skype and Truphone run on the Zune HD? Or how good the web browser is.. Just want to focus on the media playback capabilities? Then the ability to use Pandora and Last.fm alone should kill any desire for a Zune if you have an active brain cell in your head.
Now keep in mind that I'm talking about a device that's basically unchanged from it's release well over a YEAR ago, that has a good chance of a major overhaul along with the new iPhone, and you have yet another Zune that's dead on arrival. Good god Microsoft, is it THAT hard for a multi-billion dollar company to make a successful PMP? This is getting ridiculous.
@utahnkid: They broke into the console market, they might be able to break into the PMP market.
Yeah rank it down, keep pushing that minus button, make it disappear. Don't bother trying to refute even one statement with a logical argument. I'm sure the truth hurts.
As they say, ignorance is bliss.
Exactly, Proud Japanese.
Remember the year 2001, when Sony was the undisputed king of console gaming?
Microsoft then released the Xbox, which, while it didn't come anywhere close in sales numbers, still sold 24 million units, putting it in second place.
Fast forward to now. They're in last place. Why? They got complacent and thought that people would pay lots more money for the name "Playstation."
Remember 2006, when Apple was the undisputed king of the PMP market?
Microsoft then released the Zune, which, while it didn't come anywhere close in sales numbers, has now sold over 3 million units, putting it in second place in PMP market share.
Stranger things have happened. I say, go Microsoft! I'm always for competition in the market. If this is real, and it's a compelling product, I'll buy it. I've been very satisfied with my Zune 80, so I'm definitely willing to stick to the brand.
@dave
I think somewhat unfortunately that was years ago, and not on a Windows PC =(
iTunes has been getting ever more bloated and pathetic, especially for Windows. And Apple just keeps removing features from it (like the ability to remove the stupid little link the itunes store so you don't accidentally click it when trying to change tracks, or the genre link, etc.) so you'll spend more money. Lame as hell.
If MS can release a seriously upgraded music management program that doesn't run like a$$ I'd switch in a heartbeat. Please MS!!!
Sony has NEVER been the undisputed king of gaming consoles. Did you forget about the little company known as Nintendo? And the difference between it and the Zune is that the first XBOX wasn't terrible. Microsoft saw what they thought the market was lacking and tried to fill the void with their product.
Go back to 2006 and take a look at the little (literally) console known as the "Wii". If you would have shown any out of touch nerd (basically everyone on Engadget) the specs on paper at the time and they would have immediately labeled it as a joke - unable to compete with the XBOX or Playsation on any front. While Microsoft and Sony were busy cramming every possible feature and capability under the sun into their next gaming system, Nintendo was focusing solely on the "user experience" (sound like any other company you know about?). Satoru Iwata saw very early on that a device solely relying on technical prowess would never stand up to a one that offered the user a unique and intuitive experience (noticing the parallels?). They knew that you can't just come into the game with the right technical specs, you have to bring something truly enjoyable to use - and that's something you can't just throw money at to accomplish. So how well did this gamble work out? By the end of 2008, the Wii had more than DOUBLED the XBOX 360's numbers. 10.2 vs 4.7 million units sold.
On top of all of that, the XBOX is a HORRIBLE example of success as defined by a business. It took almost a DECADE (7 years) to make the XBOX unit profitable. From it's inception in 2001 until 2008 it actually cost Microsoft money to stay in the gaming business because they used the same logic with it that that use with every other product: Throw money at it, listen to out of touch nerds and engineers, and focus entirely on technical aspects; leaving minimal time for developing the entire user experience. Setting aside the massive discrepancy in units sold, if you're strictly addressing how much money Nintendo has made from it's consoles (and we can just count from 2001 on up to be fair) vs Microsoft (especially if Microsoft keeps up the same spec war) I dare say none of us will ever live to see the day they even approach the kind of numbers Nintendo has.
And I guess none of you bothered to even read my first comment because the entire point of it was that I truly want someone to genuinely challenge Apple's iPod line. The consumer would only benefit from it from specs all the way down to price. It makes me sick that you guys let Microsoft get away with the shit their churning out of the Zune department. All that does is validate in their minds that if they can manage to release even the most mediocre of product, you'll still eat it up like pigs over a slop bucket. You're so set on not buying Apple that you'll buy any alternative, no matter how bad it is (relatively speaking). Don't put up with their shit! DEMAND better Zunes! The current (and most likely soon to be upgraded) iPod Touch is LEAPS AND BOUNDS ahead of the Zune and I can guarantee that this new model won't have anything close to the App store.
@utahnkid
You're so in touch though, right? You need to get out of your house, get on your skateboard (or whatever kids these days ride --- one of those slithery boards?) and go to the mall and talk to girls. They're not THAT bad, really.
Sure thing.
Get back to sleep now.
"On top of all of that, the XBOX is a HORRIBLE example of success as defined by a business. It took almost a DECADE (7 years) to make the XBOX unit profitable."
Maybe if the "Xbox" was developed by a standalone company.
Now everyone knows what an Xbox is, and that its made by Microsoft. Most people I know love it, too.
The brand recognition alone is enough for Microsoft -- they don't need it to be profitable. Consider it marketing, if you want.
"Sony has NEVER been the undisputed king of gaming consoles. Did you forget about the little company known as Nintendo? And the difference between it and the Zune is that the first XBOX wasn't terrible."
1) The PS2 had such a MASSIVE market share back in its prime that the GameCube, for all practical purposes, wasn't even on the map. It had no prayer of competing because Sony really was the undisputed master of the home console market in the first half of the decade, nobody could imagine any way that somebody could realistically compete with them.
2) The Zune is NOT terrible. I was a long-time iPod user until I received a flash Zune, and I was absolutely shocked at how much better it is than an iPod. The desktop software is lightyears better than iTunes, the player is significantly more user friendly, the sound quality is superior, and they have an awesome subscription music service. The only category where the iPod wins is in peripheral support, trying to find something with a built-in Zune dock is nearly impossible.
utahnkid, we don't know the specs or the performance of the new Zune yet. How about reserving judgement? That big screen and "HD" sound yummy so lets see what they have to offer.
@tekd
I think that the WMP beta that comes with the windows 7 beta is pretty cool. I'll wait until they release that publicly.
@utahkid
Do you actually expect anyone to read that comment, after posting the first two stupid ones, and then leaving an essay for your third comment?