Elan Microelectronics demonstrates its eFinger multitouch tech running on Android
By Paul Miller 
posted Apr 12th 2009 10:25AM
posted Apr 12th 2009 10:25AM
[Thanks, Phelipe H]
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As an Apple fanboy:
Good on them!
They have some product and not just words.
They had a product before this, for one the multitouch touchpad in the eee has elan drivers.
Can you stfu ever and not mention your stupidly addiction with the apple fruit fanboism in relation to any other gadget posted here?
http://www.engadget.com/2009/04/08/elan-turns-the-tables-on-apple-sues-for-multitouch-patent-infri/
I'm just proving that as an Apple FANBOY, I can go "Up yours Apple!"
If you say up yours Apple then you are a very poor fanboy.
You are an idiot maybe you should get an Apple tattoo on your forehead, do you also identify yourself with the brand of breakfast cereal you love ?
/Facepalm
If you must know, I eat toast instead of cereal.
Gah. I'm trying to show that not all Apple fanboys are mindless zombies, kay? My gosh. I'm trying to be different and here I am getting beaten back into what everyone thinks we are "NO! YOU ARE FANBOIII. MUST. HELP. APPLE. NO MATTER WHAT."
You sound more like a reasoned customer. Fanboys don't go against their company.
Lol "if you must know, I eat toast instead of cereal..."
I liked that one ^_^
I think some companies need to get their patents revoked for the sake of advancements in technology.
So you think someone can come up with an idea, then someone else can steal it. And the person who stole it is in the right, because they are advancing the tech? You really have no grasp of copy right.
Elan had had the patent prior to Apple...... doh!
If Elan had the same patent prior, then the patent office wouldn't grant Apple the same patent back in January of 2009.
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=7,479,949&OS=7,479,949&RS=7,479,949
@Muddy
Pity this is a patent case, not a copyright. then, or you might just understand that an insufficient patent search can sometimes result in two or more patent holders both having patents for the same or almost the same thing.
Copyright covers the actual code required to do the thing.
Patent covers the concept behind how the thing is done.
Sy, they would. Patents are not filtered well on the front end. Most of it is done in the back end through litigation. That's just a matter of reality.
Don't believe me?
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn2178-boy-takes-swing-at-us-patents.html
That is a patent on swinging sideways on a swing.
What if Thomas Edison had patented "a device that emits light by using electricity"?
They'd let him do it too, since back then nobody would foresee the full potential of the invention and all its applications. That would suck ass.
@ran
I agree, but only if you are a patent troll and have no intent on building/selling a product with
your patent. Then the patent office can take it back.
I agree totally
So... This is actually what the court case is about.
*Drools*
Android needs this, RIGHT NOW!
I hope Elan wins.
And gets this out for WinMo
Yeah, coz it's a great idea that everyone has this technology and not just a US business.
The sad part is, THEY WILL SETTLE. And Apple will still win, and Android won't ever get official multitouch.
WinMo couldn't handle this..
You can't handle WinMo.
@superhobo
Only you can!
That's why you are so smart!
Apple didn't invent multi-touch and neither did fingerworks......
If they did where are the lawsuits against Microsoft (win7 Multi-touch) or Perceptive Pixel ?
gouken85:
Me and anyone else with an IQ above 100.
"Apple didn't invent multi-touch and neither did fingerworks......
If they did where are the lawsuits against Microsoft (win7 Multi-touch) or Perceptive Pixel ?"
Win7 multi-touch is still about 5 years behind what Fingerworks had 5 years ago. It's also software only, meaning Elan's patent would cover it before anything Apple had. And it's Microsoft, no sense in throwing money away, because they aren't even close to competing anyway.
The previous patent posted of Elan's doesn't begin to cover Fingerworks' (Apple's) implementation. Fingerworks from the start included things like independent finger detection and non-synchronous gestures. Their patent apps are all about detecting the order of fingers on a surface and tracking them at any points on the surface not on "lines"... commands were second to the finger detection algorithms.
The closest thing to what Fingerworks did is what Perceptive Pixel is doing. But they are using optical/IR cameras to detect fingers on a non-electronic surface. So even though the results are similar, the implementation is way different. Microsoft Surface does the same thing, plus a few tricks but that's not what windows 7 uses.
From what I see Elan is trying to fire the first lawyer salvo across Apple's bow so they can release "any" product and get OEMs to buy it. They're trying to "backdate" their innovation under a patent that has nothing to do with what iPhone does. The guys like Google know Apple has the patent and sit on Apple's board so they're not going to disagree and put the feature in Android. That leaves Elan out of luck selling very expensive LCD chips and mods no body can use. Frankly, like Wacom, they've had years to do something new in the screen input department (and supposedly had already invented it!) but choose not to "popularize" their tech to cash in on the high profits.
for winmo...lol what a waste. I cannot believe how fast and responsive that interface is in the video. windows VISTA couldnt handle that inteface at that speed, like their broke ass based on legacy trash code in winmo could.
**** apple. SERIOUSLY.
They denied the G1 the ability to have this GORGEOUS DISPLAY OF MULTITOUCH because of a patent they didn't have the right to have in the first place. Super slick UI.
I think I'll patent making stuff out of aluminum......Wait what?
Patents are starting to suck so hard.Whoever gave this patent should be forced to masturbate constantly in-front of everyone.
Fix the comment system
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/engadgetcomment/
Want to fix the comment system? We have an app for that.
Haha... an't that the fucking truth. :)
Some people like that kind of thing. Nice trenchcoat, by the way.
Yes! We have 100 signatures! How many do we need to get Engadget to do something about it?
That's sick. What a bunch of thieves at Apple. I hope Elan wins billions and shuts that friggin fruit company down.
Talk about innovation. What a BS company Apple is !
ROFL, Apple awarded with the multi-touch patent back in January. Sorry to bust your bubble, but Apple have legal legs to stand on.
No. they were given a cut-down patent compared to what they actually wanted, covering specific gestures and certain kinds of scrolling in the browser. Multi-Touch itself cannot be patented, and if they tried Bell Labs and Jazzmutant would have something to say about it. They have prototypes and products from before the iPhone was a twinkle in Steve Jobs' eye.
@Phoenix
People don't understand the patent system, and say stupid things.
You can't patent ideas only process. There are many ways to do multitouch.
So drop the whole multi touch has been around since the 80s so Apple can't patent it.
You just agreed with me, apple can't stop somebody if they're doing it even slightly differently. There were products before apple, there will be products after apple.
Sy, Apple bought their patent when they bought Fingerworks, Apple didn't actually do anything but buy the company Remington Stylee.
Bell Labs demoed multi-touch, including the pinch gesture in 1984, get over it.
I'm loving the multi-touch touchpad on my Eee.
I can justify having a $300 MacBook alternative.
Yep - By stealing the OS - way to go!
Unless he, you know, bought the OS disc and then just broke the EULA.
I'm really not big fan of patents like this... Johs uses multi-touch on Eee, I saw it on MS Surface, ... seriously can we move forward and make these freely available in general regardless of the size of the device?
it's Palm 3 yesra ago, iPhone last year, Android today and Pre in May ... one thing (which should be protected by patent) is making the same UI, the other simple things like this
The only thing Apple has innovated is the art of stealing and deception.
EXACTLY!
There were zillions of devices with the same interface on the market, YEARS before the iphone was released!
Replace 'Apple' with Microsoft and then, only then, your statement will be true. Starting with stealing Mac code to create Windows and the history rolls from then on.
Elan is another opportunistic company out to make some quick cash by suing someone who is having a lot of success. If the iPhone/Touch were not successful they would not have done this.
Um, Elan have products based on this unlike most of those other companies and what about Apple suing others? For instance trying to stop iops for a couple of their players having different colours and a screen above the controls. How many orientations can you have for a screen and controls?
I prefer being able to use my phone with only one hand...
Multitouch is a nice additional thing to have, but I don't like it when some functions require the use of it.
Yeah like driving and using both hands to multi-touch your phone.... I like the fact that I can use 1 finger to type on my p1i and also have a physical keyboard... ooh and it's touch screen.
I agree. Multitouch is nice in some situation, but sucks in others like you mention. I like that about android, that it doesn't assume onlly one interface metaphore and gives you choice. I have the rooted multitouch os, and honestly, i don't really use the pinch gesture much, i am finding I prefer the "click the magnifying glass to zoom" UI, especially since you can do it one handed.
Right. So when all else fails, just claim that multitouch is useless. Microsoft fanboys need to get over it and move on already.
Where, the FAKE CJ, did they mention Microsoft, or love for company thereof?
in fact, the only phone that wasn't Android mentioned was the P1i, made by Sony Ericsson, and running SYMBIAN (UIQ 3.2, precisely).
SO lets say this is all true ..why didnt THEY (Elan Microelectronics)come out with this 3 years ago (or whenever ago when they had it) For the record I totally agree that stealing patents is Wrong but this was kinda like (pardon the analogy) inventing a can opener and sitting on it for years (probably not sure if people want it )then some one else (crapple) comes out with a similar can opener (changes the name to worm can opener...
WinMos are for Bimbos
I strongly believe patents and copyright are what is holding humanity back. There anti the free market patents in particular were hotly contested by free marketeers when they came out. Think of the innovation and progress that would be possible if anyone could take an idea and move on with it. It would of course be disasterous for the multinationals who hide behind them.
No one funds expensive and time consuming research out of the kindness of their hearts. There needs to be assurance in place that I can't waltz up and steal years of research and development from you and push a product out a few months after you demo something groundbreaking and new.
@matt,
Think about this : companies do research to find new stuff so they can patent and copyright it (and thus make money out of it)
If they can't make money out of it, then they will not do research and humanity will stand still.
what you want is some sort of communism in the market but sadly communism failed.
I don't buy that argument guys. Companies will do research regardless of whether they can get a patent. Why? Because if they don't their competitors will and no one can afford to stand still. That's a death sentence. Being first to market is arguably very much worth the incentive to do the research.
Really though, how many companies do a lot of real research? Only the big ones like Intel, Corning, Microsoft etc who have the resources to throw at it. That's a very small segment of the market. Everyone ELSE licenses technology or buys parts that they combine to make their products. In the end making things should be about fitting technology and to certain problems. The best fit wins - and that includes much more than simply technology but customer service, company ethics, responsiveness, etc.
In the end big changes usually come from the bottom up not the top down. Patents limit how much bottom up can occur. That makes for more stability in the market but that's not necessarily a good thing.
How anyone can associate a pure free market system with communism is beyond me.
damn thats pretty nice, that keyboard thou takes it to the top
FYI: Apple Inc. already has 10 "multi-touch" patents GRANTED. The oldest filed in 1998...
Hold on a sec, what phone is this?
Never seen it before, and it's running Android - is this a new Android handset, and if so who made it?
Hate to break this to the fanboys but Andoid doesn't have multi-touch because Google didn't want to piss Apple off and get their services and apps yanked from the iPhone, it has nothing to do with patents, if a company existed that has the money to take on Apple in the courts its Google.
Fanboys talk as if Steve Jobs shouted Eureka! one day and thought up multi-touch, he didn't he just bought one of the companies who already had called Fingerworks.
A few others are called Bell Labs (1984), Perceptive Pixel, Elan and even Microsoft (investing in N-Trig),Cubit have even open-sourced a load of multi-touch tech.
Apple's patents only appeared once multi-touch screens became affordable, with much of Apple's "innovation" they jump in first but it has more to do with the big OEM/ODM manufacturers in the far east bringing the price of new tech down rather than Apple coming up with any of this from scratch.
Dear god Apple fans still think Apple design their "logicboards" its hilarious ! before Nvidia took over all Intel macs have used the EXACT same chipsets as PCs they even use Intel EFI chips.
Apple does engineer their own logic boards.
If I use bricks to build my house and you use the same kind of brick to build your house it has nothing to do with how I choose to design my house. Hopefully you'll had the ability to understand that. Likewise, just because Apple use similar chipsets than other companies does NOT mean the logic board design is not engineered by Apple. You think Apple was designing every chip in their PowerPC logic boards and now that they changed to Intel chipsets they are not? You gotta be kidding me.
Anyhow, Apple has had a very long history in chip design:
http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2008/04/28/how-apples-pa-semi-acquisition-fits-into-its-chip-history/
.
It's kind of funny how the MS fanboys always rush to shove words in other people's mouths and then stat making accusations on those very same fabrications. No one is saying Apple invented multi-touch, yet that's what MS fanboys blast Apple enthusiasts about. Having said that, much like other multi-touch developers, Apple does have their own multi-touch patents --and have the right to protect them.
Thing is, what was anyone really doing with multi-touch besides showcasing some technology demonstrators? Nothing much, not till Apple innovated the utilization of this technology into a great, real-world device that people can actually use in their day-to-day lives. Then all of a sudden everyone wants to do multi-touch phones. But that's not a bad thing at all.
All in all, it will be nice to see at least another company (Palm Pre) working hard to come up with a nice multi-touch device to compete in the market. RIMs 1st try was awful but they know how to compete so hopefully Storm 2 will be better. Surely Google will continue improving Android and Nokia is still asleep at the wheel in the US market. MS doesn't know how to compete so there's no hope for them.
FoxKenji, plz stfu. You're idiocy is mind blowing.
1.) The Logic boards were never engineered by Apple. The teams consisted mainly of IBM engineers and now Intel,etc. The only companies that do any REAL Motherboard engineering are major OEMs, aka Compal etc, or companies like Intel that actually produce the chips and therefore have to present base designs that the rest of industry tweaks to their fit. Apple did not design every chip on their PowerPC logic boards either. It takes a company with the engineering man power on the order of Intel's to do such a thing. They sure as hell don't do it now either.
2.) YOU may not be saying that Apple invented multi-touch. Read this blog, they sure as hell insinuate. Read other electronics blogs, they insinuate it too. Read Shank's or PAC Man's posts. They basically state that Apple invented everything and everything else is just an inferior copy. These replies are not to you if you're being half reasonable, but the only way to counter the FUD of completely unreasonable opinions is to put out your own completely unreasonable opinions? Don't like it? Well you Apple fan boys started it. That may be childish, but it's the truth.
3.) Multi-touch technology, even at the hardware level has been in it's infancy up until very recently. I'll give you that Apple did do a good job with a still incomplete technology, but the fact of the matter is, hardware-wise it's still really hard to get right. The fact also remains that Synaptics up until recently has strangled the industry through it's own capacitative screen patents. Elan has really been the only other major player in this technology. Apple's Multi-touch Patent Portfolio depends on Synaptics Licenses. Elan, just won an injunction against them and is now using this as an opportunity to push Apple into licensing their tech. This is how the IP world works. Apple has done it, so I wouldn't call it wise to blast other companies for doing it against Apple.
Can i haz install?
Why Android and Elan didn't demonstrate this before iPhone? Why waited 2 years? It is all garbage lawsuit. No?
SY,
On occasion the USPTO issues patents to multiple companies when they can prove that the technology was developed independently. Elan is going to have to prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that apple stole the idea from them. It is as simple as that. Regardless of who invented it history will remember who made the best use of it and marketed it the best. Radio as we know it was simultaneously invented by two different inventors, Marconi is credited with it. Television similarly was invented in the United States and Russia at the same time using slightly different techniques. This is something that will be decided in the courts and its not something that is likely to be over anytime soon.
I'll give you the eFinger...
@FoxKenji
There is a saying that says a thief(MS) that steals from another thief(Apple) has 100 years of forgiveness... So if you claim is that Microsoft stole from Apple while Apple steals from other company and that's ok for you... then it is obvious you are an apple Fanboy and an iDiot!
Um, Nick, no. "The Pirates of Silicon Valley" isn't a documentary. It is well known that while the personalities portrayed may be spot on, Apple didn't "steal" from Xerox. Steve Jobs was a Xerox shareholder, and as such had insight on their GUI at the time. Wozniak and Jobs help develop the system into LISA and eventually the MacIntosh. However, it was Jobs eventual hubris and arrogance that resulted in Apple falling asleep at the wheel, allowing Microsoft (and eventually others) to take their concepts and develop them further.
Settle, guilty, or royalties, the general public will still perceive Apple as the inventor of the greatest interface for mobile phones. Just like how the world sees Apple as the inventor of the digital music player, coolness, the chicken and the egg, the color white, the fruit, and the thing that will keep Steve Jobs alive forever.
Microsoft will go down in history as the company that found the solution to getting rid of mosquitos.