We just tore the packaging off of
Acer's new AspireRevo nettop and dove into its Ion-powered goodness. The computer is in many ways a product of NVIDIA's designs, since the
Ion-powered nettop reference platform has been a part of the Ion ecosystem for a while, and this Revo apple doesn't fall from the NVIDIA tree. Still, Acer had to go ahead and build the thing, and it's a pretty great package all-in-all. We're still in the preliminaries -- the HDMI didn't work out of the gate, but after swapping back and forth a few times with the VGA plug we were in business -- and we're playing with a potentially buggy "engineering sample," but hopefully we'll be able to pull together some cohesive impressions on the thing, and play a bit of
Spore while we're at it. It's already obviously the fastest Atom-powered device we've played with, and while it still pretty much chokes on Hulu and that whole "multitasking" concept, we're pretty pleased so far.
posted Apr 16th 2009 11:41AM
It chokes on Hulu?
That's a shame, as I was considering getting one of these new Ion rigs for streaming video...
That caught me too.
I'm willing to bet that it's because of the buggy sample they were given.
I can't see it having trouble with Hulu the way it's set up.
Just hold off a bit until a vendor lets you customize it with a better Atom. This one sucks. Why have such a great chipset and not compliment it with an Atom 330? That would add, what, thirty cents to the price? I mean this is a $3,000 suit. COME ON.
Like I'ld hold the elevator for an atom 330. COME ON
Bummed about the hulu comment as well. I want one of these so I can watch Hulu and Netflix on my TV.
Hulu uses Flash, which has virtually no GPU acceleration, so it is *highly* dependent on your CPU.
Ditto. The only point to this for me was as a TV-side internet video playback box. Hulu, TV.com, ABC.com etc. If it can't do that well, then its of no use to me. What did they think the HDMI port was for? It doesn't have a blue ray drive... its too underpowered to be a proper desktop (where I likely want to do photo editing, video conversion, etc)... this was the obvious target.
Sorry, its dead to me.
what the hell, it chokes on hulu but is supposed to be able to spit out 1080p video? that's a little suspect.
Wow Ryan you should actually read the comments.
A CUDA enabled Flash Player would be handy but it would be a while. Look at how long its taking them to get Flash on the iPhone.
Question: If the whole browser was mapped onto a plane rendered by the Nvidia chipset, would that help flash video, or would the bottleneck occur before it's mapped into a 3D texture?
so does that mean that current netbooks choke on hulu and youtube. I was planning on getting one.
Hulu (and other things) would choke due to the decompression of the highly compressed video stream. I suspect audio is standardized enough that they're making use of something like mp3. But you never know.
Since the application doing the decompression is probably some recently made Flash code or something, it isn't written to be capable of sending the work to the graphics coprocessor (the Ion / Geforce 9400). Any computer would have trouble with this as it would need to have a CPU capable enough to do the work and the Ion platform does not change the CPU at all.
The exciting thing about Ion is that it comes with an eSata port. This would theoretically allow you to use an external hard drive filled with movies (including ripped BluRay data from your collection). Also, I'm not sure but you would probably be able to use an eSata BluRay drive in an enclosure. Atom netbooks so far do not have eSata or even an HDMI port, generally.
And, yes, the graphics coprocessor can be used to do things like reencode movies, play games, or whatever else they come up with.
It's a gateway product, in part, though NVidia is hugely stumbling on this one as it's coming out months too late to make much of a difference (since other manufacturers are announcing chipsets that can do just about as much as Ion).
@RyanTV, that's because there's no GPU acceleration for Flash content like there is for H.264. My MythTV frontend has the same issue.
Does the Atom 330 (dual core) use the same socket as the current 230?
CPU upgrade potential?
People need to understand that the Ion platform lives on CUDA, anything that can't run on the GPU is going to run just as well, or poorly as it would on a standard netbook.
ishism, yes netbooks choke on hulu or netflix, youtube sd will work if you let it stream completely before starting the video.
Ma2t, not a socket at all, the chips are soldered to the board, at least that's my understanding.
@Ma2T
I was thinking the same thing, but isn't the Atom soldered in? That is more work than I am willing to do. And I don't think the Atom is available individually to end users. And same socket doesn't always mean compatibility.
Ugh.
Just give us a 330 you bastards.
e-mail flashplaYer complaINTS TO NV & adobe 2 resolve issue
@Alan Strangis: I believe that could only give you _potencial_ smooth scrolling (of the whole page), flash would render its stuff using the cpu and then that would be redirected to the hardware acelerated rendered plane, so there wouldn't be any performance boost.
Its up to Flash to take advantage of the gpu to do the video related tasks. If they don't then ION gets an EPIC FAIL! :)
@TREX6662k5, jon: Since gpu accelerated video decoding and rendering is the feature we are willing to have here, and considering that it's something that's already available without using CUDA, I think you're misunderstanding what this tecnology is actually intended to do. CUDA is about letting some sort of "general computing" take advantage of the GPU to do things other than 3d and video related stuff.
buggy sample they were given remember read
Is Hulu GPU accelerated? I don't think it is... so it wouldn't benefit much, if at all, from the ION platform.
I believe that tilt angle of the Revo is patented by the Wii. Seriously guys, cut it out.
It says Acer Apire. Just thought you should know.
That is a shame
It's a shame it won't play Hulu well. I was hoping this would do the trick.
Well if Adobe ever got off its lazy ass and made the Flash player actually use the available graphics hardware for video playback and other stuff, I'm sure Hulu or other HD Flash videos would play just fine.
Silverlight 3 does it, so how hard can it be?
+1 L, sure Flash sucks. I think it'll be a lot better for everyone to move to Silverlight instead of that CPU intensive junk.I remember one of the Engadget posts had a silverlight video in it and I think it was 'way' superior even in quality...
BTW, current Atoms suck too. ULV FTW !!
This little box could/should have been a great little media center box, but does sound like it is. I'd love to hear what you have to say about it playing back 720p and 1080p video files (maybe some of those wmv-hd videos Microsoft has on their site).
typoooo
im guessing is that cause hulu is flash based streaming? and flash is very high CPU compared to things like VLC local programs at running videos?
(i know little about hulu so might be totally wrong)
VLC is still pretty high because its not hardware accelerated.
Whats the point of having a 1080p functionality if it cant even play video? I DID want one of these, but not so much now.
ps: acer 'apire'?
You need to use a decoder that DXVA compatible. The decoder also has to be the first to the renderer which makes displaying embedded subtitles hard. MPC-HC is the only program that can do this. Next best thing is CoreAVC which uses CUDA, not as good as DXVA though.
I actually get significantly better results (using CoreAVC) from CUDA than from DXVA. Dropped the CPU usage on my old AthlonX2 HTPC from 80-90% down to 10-15%, and it works on a wider variety of formats too, in my experience.
The name should be Aspire...
chokes on hulu how? full screen blown up hulu, or normal screened/picture hulu? What about 720p, or 1080p playback? I'm holding back building a HD-htpc streamer, if i can get an ion-based system for almost half as much for the same purpose.
Seriously, my P4 northwood core from last year did hulu normal screened just fine. I kinda find it hard to believe a duel-core chip could choke full screen, blown up hulu. Even an Atom...
*eagerly awaits review/benchmarks.*
There's your problem. This isn't a dual core CPU, just single. It chokes on Hulu because Hulu is very CPU intensive and can't work with the GPU.
A dual core atom is still an atom, an old P4 is massively more powerful than an atom, atoms are based on pentium 1 technology and more comparable in performance to a 1Ghz P3.
Beyond web surfing and mp3 playback these things stink, why don't Acer put a dual core celeron or dual core pentium in these, nice and cheap and still good enough for hd playback.
Whats the point of low(under) powered CPUs it plugs into the wall !
@ Major4Play: Sorry man, but pay attention. The Revo is good for HD playback of videos, it's the Flash based video it has a problem with. If you're less concerned with YouTube and Hulu, and more concerned with recorded TV and HD video files you already have stored, then Revo will do the trick just fine.
Plus L4D at 720p. :)
It's small, cute, and reasonably cheap. Low power consumption. Hopefully quiet.
Looking at it next the keyboard, you start thinking though, does it really have to be that small? I mean, does paying for the smallness make any sense considering it's intended use as desktop or media PC?
I can't believe it does not play Hulu well. It would be a real surprise if the production version doesn't iron that out. Those whole purpose of the Ion is to be able to play quality video with the underwhelming Atom processor. If it can't do that, then it is a total failure. Does Hulu use flash? If it does, then Ion should be able to handle the video in hardware. Maybe this will require a flash update for it to recognize the ion GPU. If they're not using flash, then that would suck.
why is everyone so dissapointed by it choking on hulu? i thought we established flash video uses the cpu rather than gpu, making this just another nettop in terms of flash video
Cuz its the only reason for this product to exist?
For netbooks the Atom makes sense. Not just really cheap but cheap enough that it isn't your only PC. So you use it for a limited number of things, like web browsing.
If it can't be a TV-side internet media player, what's this for? A desktop? C'mon its too underpowered. And what's the HDMI port for then? And why would you need it to be so small if you have to hook it up to a monitor and keyboard and a lot of USB devices?
For a TV-side media player who gives a damn how much power it uses? Other than a low power draw when its asleep, I don't really care. I guess others are right and they should have put a 330 or a ULV CPU in it. Would have bumped the price up, possibly beyond the point of it making any sense (e.g. has to be a lot cheaper than a Dell Studio Hybrid).
Oh well, back to the drawing board unless Nvidia can get Adobe to fix Flash. And for this application not in a postage stamp sized, let it buffer way either. But in an offload to the Ion way. Not holding my breath though.
Air killer???
except it's not a laptop silly troll...
This is a nettop, not a laptop, so there's no way it can kill an Air.
OMG!, What will we BREATHE!!!???
That's Acer Aspire Timeline, crushing Adamo and of course Air...
Read: http://www.engadget.com/2009/04/07/acer-announces-aspire-timeline-ultralights-699-to-899/
Forgetting the whole desktop nature of this computer for a moment, doesn't an electronic device need to be sufficiently popular for another to come along and "kill" it?
iPhone "killer" makes sense. iPhone is an enormous phenomenon.
Air "killer" makes no more sense than a Yugo "killer" would in the automotive world.
The whole point of the ion setup is the gpu acceleration that allows you to watch hd video smoothly. Flash doesn't utilize this hardware acceleration and therefore relies solely on cpu. I read somewhere that they were going to work on getting acceleration for flash in the future. Also, keep in mind that this device is brand new and the drivers aren't mature.
What drivers are you talking about? There's no new hardware in this machine. Its merely the combination.
We need some way to offload the video decoding work to the GPU. The only reason I would want to get a machine like this is for HTPC. I don't need it to play Spore in the living room. I need it to decode every video codec in the universe perfectly, even 1080p content. Isn't that what the HDMI port is for?
I gotta agree here. I thought the whole point was 1080P playback. If it can't even stream video, this is a massive fail. This isn't a gaming machine.
1080p playback of H.264 encoded video (ie Blu Ray, MKV's, etc). NOT Flash video which, as stated a bazillion times here already, is CPU intensive video.
Dude, how many people are they going to sell this to if the only way you get content onto it is to either rip it off a Bluray disk or download it off BT? A lot fewer people than if it just handled legal internet video streaming I'll tell you....
@Fanfoot:
If I can run Windows Media Center & watch/record TV, I would buy one.
RIM said it best..... Nobody gets it perfect right out of the gate......
Im sure its just going to get better from here.....
What's on the other side?!
If they ship it, I will buy it!
Try playing a HD MKV video with Media Player Classic Home Cinema it has DXVA support so it should offload the decoding to the GPU.
http://mpc-hc.sourceforge.net/
VLC has no such support so you can compare them against each other in seeing what plays.
XBMC linux builds also now have GPU decoding but its buggy and a lot of work to install.
Ah but mplayer and MythTV both have excellent support for VDPAU right now, so you're good to go! No need for vlc and xbmc, but they'll get there.
None of the shots ever show the VESA mounting holes. I'm pretty sure it has them...
Please Acer give us one of these with a Pentium dual core or Celeron DC, I'll happily pay the difference If i don't need a battery then I don't need an Atom.
Get a Zotac GF9300 ITX board, CDN$175, throw on a Celery Dual core, slap in some ram, spare HDD, cheap ITX Case, and you are laughing. The price would be about the same.
Give the Revo a break.. please! As mentioned above, Hulu chokes because it's flash based and there's no hardware acc for flash.. meaning the Graphics Cards does shieet.. However, 1080p movies will not be a problem as long as you decode them using CoreAVC or some other nice decoding..
Is Paul Miller left handed?
Nice catch :)
Please test HD media playback on ubuntu using VDPAU (mplayer or whatever).
Please.
If this Dell Mini 9 can run Leopard, this should run pretty sweet.
I guess I'll wait for a version with a better cpu.
Li-ion battery are more and more powerfull, see that http://symfox.free.fr/?p=258
Please test POWER CONSUMPTION!
Help a brother out... what is the cheapest device like this that CAN play Flash without a problem. I am using a Shuttle X, circa 2003, as my HTPC. It works well enough... I can surf the web, play DVDs, stream youtube, ABC, Netflix. But the CPU runs at @ 90% streaming flv in SD, so HD is out of the question. I would love to stream HD... maybe even play Blu-Ray. I thought this device (or the other upcoming nvidia devices: http://www.nvidia.com/object/sff_ion.html) might fit the bill... but I may be wrong.
You're going to have to wait till the fall/winter, but similar spec'd ION devices with faster CPUs should start coming out by the holiday season or so. Nvidia announced that ION 2 will support Via's Nano, as well as more robust Intel chips like Core2Duo. A bit more pricey than the Revo, but compared to what an HTPC used to cost to build? It's a no brainer. :)
http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/26/nvidia-ion-to-begrudgingly-support-core-2-duo-by-q4/
Hulu-suckery had better be a problem of the engineering sample. If that's fixed in the production run, I'll slap one of these behind my TV for Hulu alone.
It won't be fixed in the production run since its due to the slow processor and the lack of a hardware assisted flash player.
> RyanTV @ Apr 16th 2009 1:07PM
>
> what the hell, it chokes on hulu but is supposed to be able to spit out 1080p video? that's a little suspect.
Not at all. This chipset is supposed to offload all of it's h264/VC1 decoding to the GPU.
On my vdpau test rig, I see 5% cpu usage for Xorg and another 5% for mythtv when
playing the BD rip of Dark Night. (2.83Ghz C2Q)
The fact that it can't handle Hulu is rather disappointing though.
Looks awesome! Play currently have these ready for pre-order for £180 with 1GB RAM and a 8GB SSD running Linux. I think Windows 7 would run nicely and the built in H.264 AVC codecs use DXVA so should be good. As someone else pointed out though CoreAVC uses CUDA so it's a good alternative.
If I got one? I'd stuff a cheap but usable 40GB HDD in there, take the SSD out and use it for virtual memory and other stuff on my main pc as power consumption isnt a great problem for me ;)
Portable kickass gaming machines FTW!
Gah I hope there's a way of getting that Win7 h.264 codec working with Vista until its released completely.
Try out XBMC on it. I would like to know how it handles HD content in XBMC.
I know the Wii is popular and all, but does EVERYTHING have to tilt and have weird angles now?
What about a nice little box that's like square and stuff and easy to tuck out of sight or stack on
something like a dvd player next to the tv - why does it have to jump out and say "look at me, I wanna
be a wii" ?
Guys - Ion is a brand-new product. The drivers are immature. Give them a (small) break.
I can't imagine why this little bugger would be chocking on Flash videos. I have an HP mininote with a stock Atom (n260?), and it handles hulu just fine. Perhaps the problem is with the ram-- my mininote has 1GB.
Looks like it's using the redesigned Intel badge.
The Hulu choke is freaking folks out. WTH? Surely it is something weird going on, because spec wise, I would expect it to chew through it like butter with the Flash 10 plugin (as long as it has the broadband coming through to it).
Review! Review! The pleebs demand a review!
Paul,
When you test the device, can you give us some updates on its performance when using SlingPlayer?
thats really upsetting, i really hate using flash on a slow machine, i have a old ibook G4 and it grind to a choppy halt on youtube, thats at 1.33ghz so that extra .27ghz really doesnt make a difference.
Atom>G4
Gigahurtz are not everything.
Flash DOES do hardware acceleration but the source file must be properly encoded MP4. If Hulu is not providing MP4 to its flashplayer then it is HULU's fault that the video is not hardware accelerated not the Acer unit here. Quit complaining about ACER and start complaining about HULU for streaming their clips instead of providing progressive downloads.
This Ion stuff rocks - I wish NBC would quit the astroturfing operation in the engadget comments.
This has the SAME adapter as my almost 4 year old Acer Aspire laptop :|
Hey just wanted to say i have a acer x3200 htpc and it's just amazing ... it's not as small as the revo but tiny enough
1080p playback no probs ... hdmi out and i picked it up for around 450 plus tax about 6 months ago
does everything :)
http://forums.nvidia.com/lofiversion/index.php?t55090.html
Pocket-lint.com has pictures of the joystick as well.
http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/news.phtml/23743/gallery/acer-aspire-revo-photo-gallery-3.html#image