Verizon releases early data-focused LTE specs, CDMA nowhere in sight
By Nilay Patel 
posted April 17th 2009 12:44PM
posted April 17th 2009 12:44PM
Verizon's got a lot of work to do before it lights up its next-gen LTE network in 2010, and things are beginning to move along: the company just released the first set of specs for device manufacturers as part of its Open Development Initiative. It's still a rough draft, but there are a few big-picture tidbits buried in the dense jargon -- the LTE network will start out as a data-only service, and right now devices aren't required to support CDMA at all, which is a pretty bold move. That certainly makes sense as Verizon's test networks go live in the next few months, but the company's has already said that phones will be available at launch, so we're guessing things are going to change quickly as time marches on -- 60Mbps mobile downloads, here we come.Read - Verizon PR
Read - Specs site (registration required)
Since neither link tells us anything, can Engadget?
I take it this means that all calls would be VOIP exclusively then? Finally voice/data can be priced in one common denominator. I would think that having only a data connection would make this service cheaper for consumers than a combo voice/data plan no? Would this now nullify the SMS limitations of 160 characters?
One can only hope...
It's starting to get ridiculous that mobile speeds are trumping anything I can actually get installed to my home.
Does data-only LTE devices mean Verizon may actually allow VoIP-only phones on the service right away?
(Just for reference, I believe the intent of the carriers was most devices will start off using CDMA for voice, and LTE instead of EV-DO for data, with the intent of moving entirely to VoIP over LTE in the future. On GSM networks, replace CDMA with GSM and EV-DO with HSDPA, obviously.)
since this is engadget, I have to ask... 2010 iphone?
60mbps if they can bring that kind of backhaul to each site.
WANT WANT WANT
hopefully by the time this is out, net books will have the power to run awesome games....Modern Warefare 2 anywhere, here I come!
Netbooks will always use cheaper components. Naturally the netbook will always be a relatively slow, underpowered computer compared to gaming PC's. Modern games will always be made to run on these gaming PC's. Thus, netbooks will never be able to run modern games.
2010....which will coincide with the first storm update that brings that crapbox up to speed..( if you compare it to 2006 phones...)
So Verizon will probably start using VOIP but still charge you separate for Data/Voice and VOIP calls will count against your monthly data cap.
does this mean sim cards for verizon?
I wonder how Verizon will gimp its own network?
Block inbound port 80.
In all seriousness though, I doubt Verizon would gimp their network. With FioS and soon LTE, it's pretty obvious Verizon's main business going forward is data. They realized they simply couldn't compete as a phone company a long time ago.
P.S. Verizon is legally obligated to operate a neutral network on the 700MHz spectrum being used for LTE.
Am i the only to put this together, (I know engadget is always so horny for the iPhone, so probably) the Storm 2 is coming out in late '09 early '10 most likely 2010. It's not because the phone sucks, i have one and am running the Bell .122 OS ( I'm on Verizon) and it is amazing, way better than before and I like it now more than I do the iPhone (I really hope I don't get shot by an Engadget editor after that one). Why wouldn't Big Red not release their powerhouse phone with their new powerhouse network, well first the phone has to be capable, duh, and why don't we throw in wifi even though no one would use it because unless your in asia you're not goint to see speeds over 50mbps and thats only if the router is connected to a fiber optic network. It all makes sense, think about it...
how does LTE work? will they finally make the move to SIM cards? Does this mean manufacturers can make one device that will work on multiple networks in the US? Am i dreaming?
>> "Does this mean manufacturers can make one device that will work on multiple networks in the US?"
It might... but only after all networks in the US are on LTE.
But there will probably be some little tiny difference between carriers that will make phones not work on other networks... you know it will :(
yes, finally CDMA is phasing out... maybe we will se starting getting all the euro phones when they come out rather than 2 years later or not at all.
Thinking this could be the first step to go all IPv6 and VOIP on VZW.
So, I've been seeing a lot about this LTE thing, and I have no clue what it is.... Yes, I recognize that I'm probably a little out of the loop. Anyone care to explain it in terms that aren't for scientists? Not exactly layman's terms (I have a pretty robust knowledge of various techs), but not all jargon-y.
Okay, I'm sick and tired of everyone out there NOT UNDERSTANDING LTE DATA RATES! Downlink and uplink speeds are intentionally different with the bulk of the data rate allocated to downlink. Why? Because base stations inherently have more power and processing capability and therefore can do much more fancier things with the antennas and signals.
So what is the true data rate? It depends on how much bandwidth is available and at what frequency we are operating on. Let's assume we have a 20 MHz channel at on of the best bands. By the very definitions in the spec, best achievable rates are about 150 Mbps (assuming no MIMO). Before you jump with glee, you've got to realize that this is the bulk data rate available to the base station in a given sector (120 deg) at a very good signal to noise ratio directed at ONE receiver. The LTE spec states that a cell must be capable of supporting up to 200 users per 5 Mhz of bandwidth (that's almost 800 for the 20 MHz case). What does this mean? If 800 (worst case) users are SHARING 150 Mbps (assuming best case), each user gets about 180 kbps max.
Okay, what if we only had medium signal quality and about 200 users in a sector? Easy, the data rate at medium signal quality could be anywhere between 50 to 100 Mbps. 100 Mbps SHARED by 200 people is 500 kbps and worst case 50 Mbps shared by 200 is 250 kbps. Therefore, expect a data rate per user of between 250 to 500 kbps. Higher if you have real good signal quality and much lower if you are far away, moving fast (car or train), in what Verizon calls a dead zone.
To portray LTE providing individual users 60 Mbps is an utter lie. The same way my Gigabit Ethernet really doesn't give me a 1 Gbps signal (because ethernet is a shared source and it depends on the length of your cables), neither will LTE. Get real.
Considering that LTE stendards have not yet fully been finalized, VZ is going to be launching before LTE is fully baked, so device selection and support will probably be extremly limited until then.
Doesn't Verizon already limit its devices?
Either by reducing the memory, charging a ridiculous price for it, or not offering it at all.
Touch pro anyone?
Ignore testerrich. With the 20mhz C block (10 up/10 down or 5 up/15 down?) Verizon *will* be able to offer bandwidth rivaling DSL and cable at launch. I wouldn't expect to see 60mbps *at launch*, and even 20mbps seems unlikely *at launch*. But 5-7mbps (real world--not HSUPA "theoretical") should be doable. I hope speeds ramp up to 20mbps soon.
AndrewNeo/Bill: Don't expect VZW to "gimp" the network. FCC C band rules mean you can expect to see LTE data-only devices with VoIP (iPod touch 4G anyone?) as long as they are certified through the mandatory Open Device/Open Access program. Vendors offering these devices will still have to pay a wholesale rate so you can expect to pay for a monthly plan (hypothetically, you buy an iPod touch/iPhone and activate a plan direct through Apple--they provide all billing and customer service.) At some point VZW might do some sort of QoS; i.e. branded services like video get more bandwidth while open devices get less. This would fall under FCC scrutiny methinks.
uncjigga2k you don't know jack...
If you read the Verizon specification, they are going to use E-UTRA Band 13 (746-756 MHz, which is 10 MHz of bandwidth for downlink). So already they are starting out with half the theoretical data capacity of the LTE spec. If you assume 60 Mbps (which will require MIMO... that's at least 2 antennas) is the total data rate, you need to split this by the total number of users in a given sector. If you have at least 100 people you need to provide service to, they each get 600 kbps (best case). Obviously, the fewer people receiving data on the downlink, the faster your connection will be.
Obviously you don't know what you are talking about because HSUPA stands for high speed UPLINK packet access which is slower that HSDPA (the downlink). HSUPA and HSDPA are part of HSPA. Most providers do have 7 Mbps HSDPA, but when did you ever hear of anyone doing any 7 Mbps downloads? Never! Again, divide 7 Mbps by at least 50 users and you get a rate like 140 kbps.
Qualcomm has a load of patents covering all types of CDMA, W & 2000 for example) ergo they make money out of so called CDMA networks and GSM networks and handsets.
Qualcomm has designs for and already has chipsets for LTE. They are also working on dual chipsets that work with ALL existing networks so that would ease the move for the carriers and the handset manufacturers and end customers.
Many carriers including (surprise) both Verizon Wireless and Vodaphone have announced their intention to go the LTE route.
Expect QUalcomm to continue to own relevant patents in this area and to continue to supply chipsets and license technology.
Perhaps the most affected name here could be Intel and their WiMax push. Surely LTE will compete with this rather more directly?
Toptally digital data seems a foregone conclusion. The question is more how will the networks try to ease into this with LTE and how will they sell it re "voice" and "data"?
Verizon's marketing push for LTE: "Torrenting on-the-go made simple!"
Die CDMA, Die! Now bring on the SIM based LTE already...
If Verizon stops supporting CDMA - that leaves Sprint/Nobody
testerrich, you might be right about the fact that it may not be as fast as some hope, but you are way off also. The speed numbers you are giving are horrible. I get much better performance than that with EVDO! Do you actually believe performance will be worse than EVDO? Do you work for Sprint and just love Wimax?
I'm just trying to educate. If you don't believe me, go to http://www.dslreports.com/mspeed?jisok=1 with your mobile device. Please be aware that your speed is relative to the signal quality (distance to base station, environment, etc.) and the current network load. Does this make sense?
Of course you'll occasionally get speeds over 1 Mbps. But if the network load is low and the signal quality is high (conditions which are not always true), you'd expect the best available rate. Right now, a user may experience low network loads because there really aren't a lot of people using their mobiles for high-rate data services. If the trend for data services continues to increase as expected, then the loads will get higher and that is the real reason to increase capacity and switch to LTE.
EVDO: 3 Mbps for 10 users (now in 2009) = 300 kbps; 3 Mbps for 100 users (2010?) = 30 kbps
LTE: 60 Mbps for 100 users (2011) = 600 kbps
There's a number cruncher somewhere at Verizon taking a look at their growth numbers and their network loads and mapping their deployment/expansion projects. The real issue may be the number of users in the FUTURE requiring high-data rate services and not necessarily the rate itself. This is my ultimate point. First adopters may see huge throughput numbers at first. Once everyone starts switching to iPhone-like devices and demanding voice, video and data from their mobiles, they'll start to notice a slowdown.