Automakers agree on common plug to recharge electric vehicles

Just hours after General Motors put forth a proposal for a standardized plug for electric vehicles, in flies this. German energy firm RWE has stated that a cadre of respected automakers and energy firms have all come together in agreement on a three-point, 400-volt plug that will enable electric cars the world over to be recharged anywhere, regardless of which recharging station they stop at. Caroline Reichert, an RWE spokeswoman, noted that the idea here is to ensure that "a car can be recharged in Italy in exactly the same way as in Denmark, Germany or France." We're told that the agreement includes nods of acceptance from the likes of Volkswagen, BMW, Ford, General Motors, Fiat, Toyota, Mitsubishi, Eon, Vattenfall, EDF, Npower, Endesa and Enel, and while there's no time frame for when it'll be introduced, we're pretty stoked to hear that at least something has been decided upon.

[syko21 @ Apr 19th 2009 4:28PM]

Can't help but notice that tesla is conspicuously absent from that list.

[KilgoreTrout @ Apr 19th 2009 5:14PM]

True, but if I haven't been mislead by the documentary I have seen, the Tesla should have an even better solution: you just plug it in any normal home outlet and it does'nt require any special plug.
And personally I like better simple solutions.

[jakem @ Apr 19th 2009 5:21PM]

That's only a better solution for people who have a garage at home.

[RoboDan @ Apr 19th 2009 5:22PM]

I was JUST about to say that - I wonder what Tesla things about this complicated plug idea

[TRAFFICBLOWS @ Apr 19th 2009 5:23PM]

Oh, you didn't hear about the "Made for Tesla" adapter certification program yet?

[Ethan @ Apr 19th 2009 5:27PM]

Kilgore - Plugs are 24 volts in the UK, 12 in the US, your car will charge much faster with this, seeing as it is hundreds of volts more.

[Cuw @ Apr 19th 2009 5:33PM]

Ethan- I don't know where you learned electronics but you learned them oh so very wrong. The US standard is 120V@60hz the UK standard is 240V@50Hz. The benefit of a higher voltage connector has nothing to do with the speed at which the battery will charge it has to do with the conductor size. Since Power = Current x Voltage you can put the same amount of power through a conductor at a lower current with a higher voltage. This is important since the power dissipated by a wire is Current^2 x Resistance a lower current means less power lost on the lines and more efficiency for a high power load such as a car.

[CraigJ @ Apr 19th 2009 5:34PM]

No, that's a bad solution. A standard outlet cannot handle the the amount of power required to charge in a reasonable period of time - 20 amps at 110 is about the max you can handle (most houses have 15 or 20 amp breakers on household circuits) and that is only 2,200 watts. A 220 volt socket like on your water heater or dryer would be better, ad these typically have 40 or 50 amp circuits, so they can deliver 8,000 to 10,000 watts - is this what they mean?

110 charging for home is probably ok, because you're going to charge over night, but for charge stations it just won't be enough...

[Jakjak9210 @ Apr 19th 2009 6:37PM]

Tesla actually has a 240 volt charger for american homes, the 120 volt charger is much slower, and only really used if you really need a charge.

[rads06 @ Apr 19th 2009 6:56PM]

im pretty sure that they are talking about the end that plugs into the car not the end that plugs into the power outlet..

[Ethan @ Apr 19th 2009 6:59PM]

I missed 0's off all the time in maths too.

[vdex34 @ Apr 19th 2009 8:18PM]

for the people bitch about garages, how about something that plus into your outdoor outlets, i got like 6 of them in my yard, at least 2 in the front of the house (and my house is over 100 years old)

[Decoy @ Apr 19th 2009 8:56PM]

You can afford a Tesla, but not a garage?

[BloodyHell @ Apr 19th 2009 9:01PM]

Oi! Yes! let me plug this car in right here, oh wait! This car was bought in or designed for america! Thas why this dingy ole thing won't work on regular plugs ere' in britan!

The "normal plug" idea doesn't neccessarily work dude.

[tim @ Apr 19th 2009 11:02PM]

What about zones? I heard that you can change zones 3 times and then you have to purchase another car.

[霽月瀛台 @ Apr 20th 2009 12:34AM]

They just won't use different plug.

[Big Papi @ Apr 20th 2009 10:05AM]

All - The end of the plug that you see is the end that plugs into the car not the part that would plug into the wall. This SAE spec would make it so you could go to a gas station and they would have the proper voltage and plug for your car.

This would be like all laptop makers agreeing on the same plug to fit in all laptops. Or Cell phone companies agreeing on all cellphone using a mini-usb plug.

Tesla probably did not sign up because they are already making EV cars. They will have to access how much it will cost them to switch. Who even knows if they are a member of SAE.

[Ami Schreiber @ Apr 20th 2009 12:24PM]

It's a good thing Sony does make cars. :)

[richii @ Apr 19th 2009 4:29PM]

for some reason this makes me think of the future... like people driving futuristic electric cars and everything being clean!

yay same plug!

first!

[Elodie @ Apr 19th 2009 4:38PM]

How clean is an electrical car, really? I mean, when the electricity it uses is produces, pollution still happens, just not "right from your car"?

Still totally cool to see automakers can agree about stuff (much better than computer makers, indeed), but I always find it weird when people say electrical cars are clean.

[Kaitou KID @ Apr 19th 2009 4:45PM]

not if the electricity is from ultra efficient solar panels, hydroelectric dams or wind.

[who? @ Apr 19th 2009 4:54PM]

Or fuel cells (ex: hydrogen). Some cars have them built-in, and they produce electricity too. Now where to get that pesky hydrogen... hmmm...

[KarlW @ Apr 19th 2009 4:57PM]

@Elodie

Yes, we know. It's pointed out every time anybody mentions electric cars. By abstracting devices to use electricity as their fuel, we can concentrate on advancing clean electricity production techniques and have the benefits shared by everything. Once we've consolidated everything to depend on the grid, we can clean up everything by cleaning up the grid. It's a centralised solution.

There are clean ways to generate electricity. Once electric cars are more common, demand for electricity will rise, and electricity producers will have to look at big generators such as dams, nuclear stations or decentralised wind turbines that feed in to the grid. I imagine there will be tax incentives to build green generators when we're at that stage.

However, I don't welcome this news. They should have taken more time in designing the standard, and taken the opportunity to add data services. This would have meant plugging in your car would be like docking your phone. I elaborated on this in the comments of Engadget's original post.

[catachip @ Apr 19th 2009 4:57PM]

@ Elodie

As long as the electricity is generated from wind, hydro, solar, or nuclear then there are zero emissions. That being said, even a car that derives it's energy from coal power plants would be far more clean. Having centralized energy production in that way allows for centralized pollution control measures, filters, so-called "clean coal" rather than depending on X number of cars, manufacturers, and consumers to deal with pollution control.

[Byrdman @ Apr 19th 2009 5:11PM]

@KarlW

Whos to say that theyhavent done that? The description given is very vague and just states the electrical properties. This standard is by no means finished, just agreed that all makers will use a standardized plug.

[richii @ Apr 19th 2009 5:28PM]

@ everyone,

I can see what your trying to say, that without gas powered vehicles that a much larger strain will be put on electrical facilities that also contribute to air pollution and degrade our environment.. but its never even been close to the amount of garbage that gas power vehicles produce. Im gonna post a couple excerpts here:

Most ozone pollution is caused by motor vehicles, which account for 72% of nitrogen oxides and 52% of reactive hydrocarbons (principal components of smog). (7, 1990)

Emissions from cars dwarfs that from power plants. In May 2000, Austin Energy planned to reduce nitrogen oxide (NOx) emissions by 40% at its Decker and Holly power plants, from 1700 tons per year to less than 1000tpy by 2003. By comparison, NOx emissions in Travis county from motor vehicles totaled approximately 30,000 tons per year in 1996 -- the last year for which complete data was available. (1, 2000)

Sited: http://bicycleuniverse.info/transpo/almanac.html

You can google it and find it anywhere that vehicles have always placed more harmful chemicals into the air.. excluding coal power in china.. lol

BUT everyone is entitled to their own opinion.. like i said in the first place, for me, this makes me think of one step in the right direction and makes me think of a greener cleaner future.

[STINK @ Apr 19th 2009 6:48PM]

Screw this! Install a Mr. Fusion on the back of the cars and everyone starts driving reeeeeal slow and careful.

Saving lives through nuclear power. :p

[Elora HRanma @ Apr 20th 2009 8:14AM]

@catachip: I wouldn't say that hydroelectric or nuclear plants produce 0 emissions. Nuclear waste is a problem much harder to solve than CO2, and dams have quite an impact in the environment. Simply, those are not the main concern for campaigners right now.
Also, I'm not so sure that blocking huge amounts of solar energy will not have long term effects on Earth. And I wouldn't want to live in a Trantor-like planet, with only ceilings above our heads.

[catachip @ Apr 19th 2009 4:29PM]

Now only if electronics manufacturers could do the same thing. It's not necessary to have 100 different variants on what could be a standardized mini USB type connector for charging, syncing, etc. Same goes for video cables. HDMI is great, but, not future proof, you need something that will still be a standard in 25 years. Were still using the same style electrical plug 70 years later.

[Maxwell Ash @ Apr 19th 2009 5:02PM]

Yes, but the function and technology of an electric plug doesn't change. The use and technology of a computer cable does change, so the plug can't remain for 25 years or whatever.

[jakem @ Apr 19th 2009 5:22PM]

I bet I'm not using the same electrical plug as you. They aren't standardised internationally.

[Luke @ Apr 19th 2009 5:57PM]

A lot more goes into HDMI and USB signals, standards, etc. They are exponentially more complicated then a power plug.

[JohnTitor @ Apr 19th 2009 7:22PM]

as long as it's by Monster cable, it will last forever

[Jay @ Apr 20th 2009 3:23AM]

Oh, I hate when people use "exponentially", when they simply mean "much".

[frank @ Apr 19th 2009 4:29PM]

Now let's try cellphone chargers...

[Templarian @ Apr 19th 2009 4:33PM]

Micro USB is what all the future phones are using. There are a few phone manufacturers that haven't switched yet.

[Andrew @ Apr 19th 2009 4:45PM]

The EU has already asked that the manufacturers standardize on USB, and they *have* agreed.

China demanded this a few years ago for their market, and it was implemented quickly.

[EGOvoruhk @ Apr 19th 2009 6:50PM]

Damn Apple!

[why not the LS2LS7? @ Apr 19th 2009 7:02PM]

Yeah, a few haven't switched. Like RIM, Apple, Palm, Sony-Ericsson, Samsung, LG and Nokia.

So we got Motorola and two months from now Palm. We're almost there.

[simon @ Apr 19th 2009 7:54PM]

@ LS2LS7,
Scratch RIM off the non-complier list. The 8900 Curve has micro USB... and Lord knows how many people on boards bemoan that it does not have a "standard mini-USB"

[ConceptVBS @ Apr 20th 2009 12:11AM]

Scratch Samsung off the list as well. The Toco has a mini USB port for main power.

[va jj @ Apr 19th 2009 4:41PM]

okay now how about a single common plug for laptops and cell phone chargers.

[Andrew @ Apr 19th 2009 4:48PM]

Do you not read the news? This has already been decided and agree upon. The EU expressed it's "wish" for the manufacturers to standardize on USB, and they agreed... before it was legislated. This applies world wide now. It will be another year or two before it takes effect.

[matt @ Apr 19th 2009 5:40PM]

Hey, I'll just plug my laptop into it's USB port. Unlimited battery life!

[Jacob @ Apr 19th 2009 7:04PM]

what about laptops? still a clusterfuck of different chargers and plugs out there.

[Templarian @ Apr 19th 2009 4:30PM]

Good to hear, hopefully GM has already started to use this for the Volt.

[Haikibutsu @ Apr 19th 2009 4:31PM]

It would be better if there was a 7 point or more:

3 for power and ground, and 4 for a USB-like connection to tell you things like car status, power, etc.

[Shyam D @ Apr 19th 2009 4:34PM]

Such data connections could easily be relegated to a wireless connection. You have to remember that these are going to be delivering a lot of power. Putting a data connection in the same bundle would be like wrapping your HDMI cable around your washer and dryer. Not the wisest thing to do.

[Haikibutsu @ Apr 19th 2009 5:03PM]

Oh wow I just had a senile moment.

[why not the LS2LS7? @ Apr 19th 2009 8:32PM]

Why use wireless when a wire will do?

Say you're charging your car and someone next to you is too. How do you make sure your charger doesn't start talking to that car and vice-versa?

I'm sure the cable has some kind of data on it.