Need more proof that AT&T (and Apple, by proxy) is taking the
Pre kind of seriously? Enter this internal document from the iPhone carrier exposing the Palm phone for what it really is --
a second-rate claptrap that is doomed to failure because of its inferior and stupid design. Among the highlights in this no-holds-barred slamfest -- similar to
this Verizon / G1 hit piece -- is the comparison between WiFi (somehow the Pre has "limited WiFi access" because it can't connect for free in Starbucks), and the nasty burn which points out that the Pre is available "in black only." Ouch... Palm might want to stock up on aloe vera. In truth, though, the doc does point out some issues with the Pre that are very real, namely its lack of roaming capabilities outside of the US and an SDK which thus far won't allow for CPU-intensive apps like 3D games. It's significant that AT&T has deemed the phone worthy enough to address (internally at least), but it's also significant to see just how far the company seems to be reaching on a handful of these points. Just remember guys -- competition is a good thing.
posted Apr 22nd 2009 12:32PM
The Pre has the clap.
Clap, white is unavailable!!!! ohnoes, you canz onleaz buy DRM free MP3 for 99¢ per track instead of AAC at $1.29 !!! eeeeek! run away!!!!!
Looks like they conveniently left off the fact that it will cost you $20-$40 more a month to own the iPhone.
(this is assuming Sprint puts the Pre on the Everything Plan)
I see the point you're trying to make, but Amazon also has variable pricing.
"Leaked"??? Yea, right!
AT&T also forgot to mention that their 3G service sucks and that every other call will get dropped. But they have overseas compatibility!!
Car:
Zune Marketplace is also 99¢/song
Shhh, shhh - listen - can you hear them? The Apple hate patrol is on their way!
Looks like the Apple-Manlove Patrol is already here.
Do you not see anything hypocritical about your post?
I don't know... I think they both seem like very good phones. each has their strong points and trade-offs like anything else.
+1 for self-ownage
@ RyanTV - A coherant and rational comment?? Wow. Its been a long time since I've seen that.
@ MK: I thought you were already working on a Steve Ballmer sex doll? Are you still having problems with the heavy perspiration simulators?
Troll Different.
irony++
go back to being a hippy, kthx
THe only thing that's holding me back about the Pre is that Sprint will be the only company that has it...
Then wait for an unlocked GSM version.
The unlocked GSM version won't have AT&T's 3G band, so its going to be kind of worthless in that respect...
Sucks for you guys then. :P
You can put linux on Ipods to have them show up as a hard drive, and then drag and drop actual mp3 files onto them, play doom and movies. Funny how the ipods are only functional once you hack them. Itunes is a tool of the devil, and is spyware as far as I am concerned.
Problem is most Apple users lack the know how to do anything beyond what is offered to them by Apple. My brother has got at least 10 free Ipod Videos from kids who broke em. We took em apart and made frankenIpods with mixed matched button colors and internals. I personally think they are garbage still but free is free, just treat them as disposable.
I got OSX running on my Core i7 P6T Deluxe (with sas) just to spite my useless girlfriend who is to incompitent to use windows.
I guess the usual response from the computer illiterate fanboys is that I will have a core i7 when the apple gods tell me to, and I will be smug as hell to pay 3times the actual cost for the parts.
In conclusion, you bought an apple? GOOD FER YOU!!! (South Park: Smug Alert)
@MK
And then your girlfriend dumps your ass.
@MK
By girlfriend do you mean your little sister who probably lives a couple floors up from your room (i.e. parent's basement)?
@MK
GOOD FER YOU!!! (South Park: Smug Alert)
"who is to incompitent to use windows" - MK
Your excellent spelling and grammar skills appear to make your girlfriend's point for her.
I can't believe Version didn't ink a deal with Palm. This may be both companies biggest mistake. If they were really smart they would have made one Pre with CDMA and GSM together from day one. Sprint isn't going to cut it for most people. Sad because I am the biggest Palm fan but I'm on the iphone bandwagon with the release of 3.0.
Sprint has improved their service from whenever the last time you used them if you ever used them.
That comment just goes to show your ignorance to what Sprint has done and the measures they have taken to improving their company. Public opinion is not high but the previous excuses of 'poor customer service' are no longer a concern.
Can't deny the cheap prices either.
BTW does Apple not realize with backwards compatibility the Pre has over 30,000 apps just from the original Palm OS alone? Thats one of the features I wouldn't try to show off. They do have a nice store, but no where near the amount of apps that the Pre has and that have been updated since the birth of the Palm OS
Drag-and-drop music support is seen as a downside? That was one of the things I hated most when I had an iPod, being either tied to their player or using unsupported (but often better) third party apps just to put music on what is effectively a hard drive. And copying those files off the iPod afterwards was a huge pain in the ass because of how it sorts the files. Seriously, drag-and-drop is a great option for portable media players, and I don't see how it would be bad for a phone either.
I cannot agree with you more. I am a 1st gen iphone user. I love it other than the fact that I had to sync with itune. That's my most hated feature of the phone. Normal I had it sync with my laptop, but when I travel I need to sync with my laptop, which means I need to delete everything, and re-sync them all again. It's a complete pain everytime.
I have an iphone 3G and the lack of drag and drop syncing is annoying. Media monkey has been nice in that respect though... Check it out.
+1
drag and drop is so much easier.
Also, wtf is "synch"? Shouldn't it say sync?
@Chris
thats why they have the option to let you manually manage your content (drag and drop) the problem is that most people dont know what the iphone can do and dont bother to try to figure it out, they just use the default config which is auto sync.
Are you guys idiots? You mean that having to click the 'sync' button or plug in the cable to auto-sync turns you off? I've heard of some lame excuses from you flaming anti-Apple zealots, but this is pretty lame.
Mystic, It has more to do with the shitty software that is iTunes for Windows. Terribly bloated software with terrible audio to boot.
While I do admit that drag-and-drop is my preferred method, I do like that music management software organizes my ID3 tags and album art. I have a G1 and I can't tell you how scattered my music is, even though I have it quite organized at the directory/folder level. The iPhone was good in that department.
But I still prefer drag-and-drop. When I want to add 2 new songs I've downloaded to my device it takes me less than 30 seconds to connect my phone to computer, find the files, and copy/paste to the device. With iTunes - same 2 songs would take 2+ minutes using iTunes!
@Mystic: Sorry, but yes, it is easier to take your whole music folder and just drag it onto the device than to download itunes, install it, load it up, wait for it to detect all your music, then press the sync button. Also, you don't have to deal with the bloatware that is itunes slowing down your computer.
@ mystic
what if you want to use your netbook to change your playlists on the road - and you have your iPhone sync'ed with your desktop @ home? oh yeah - have to wipe the songs and re-sync it. Ghey and stupid - Apple should at LEAST let you enter your password and manage your device through multiple computers via iTunes that way..... GTF off my back apple - I don't want your illogical fenced-in shite....
Just use Winamp. It syncs with also Ipods and Iphones flawlessly.
@kjb434: I wish it was flawless. I had many problems trying to sync using Winamp, because many times it screws up the covers, and it really sucks for handling podcasts. Thats the only reason I still use iTunes.
@DoctorWho
I'm not sure about other media management software, but when I edit the software or obtain track information from the internet in WMP, it saves the information to each track and then when I drag and drop (a LOT faster than syncing) all the information obtained in WMP is still there.
@patriotsn1
>> Also, wtf is "synch"? Shouldn't it say sync?
You do realize sync is just short for "synchronize." Right?
As a few people have pointed out that you can drag & drop on the iPhone. Those of you who didn't see the manually manage music & videos checkbox must be blind. Or just use Winamp. oh and STFU please. Just because you don't know any better doesn't mean that it's not there. SO int he case of the Palm Pre, yes this is a downside that you can only manage music manually. If you don't have the option to Sync your library then yes you will lose a point to the iPhone.
Yes I realize that, but when you shorten a word, it should be shortened so that when you say it out loud it sound like shorter version of the word you are shortening. When you say "sync" it sounds like sink, which is how the beginning of the word synchronize sounds. But when you are a jackass and you add an extra letter (as is the case here), you get "synch" which sound like "cinch" which is NOT how the word synchronize sounds. Unless you are saying it very wrong.
@zenstylejunglist: they mean drag&drop on the file manager (Windows Explorer, Finder, etc), not inside iTunes. The whole point of this feature is to avoid opening a bloated software just to transfer a few songs to the device.
It may not be as flashy a UI as Apple's but why not load the RockBox OS (rockbox.org) along side Apple's on your iPod? I realize this is not a solution for a few iPods and certainly not iPhones but it is a solution for a few of you out there.
@ Kemwar, tbh I hope that's what they mean by drag & drop.I believe that all portable devices should have their file system open to us. Hence the reason for unlocking & jailbreaking mine. Either way the iPhone is still a good phone. Hope the Pre is good too. And if you can just drag music files from your desktop into your music folder then that is definitely a plus.
I manage all my music myself. I don't need to be held hostage to iTunes in order to transfer my music. I can't believe they list drag'n'drop as drawback :) Most other mp3 players out there allow you to manage storage via explorer because it only makes sense. Apple forces you to use iTunes simply so you can buy stuff from it.
I really hate synch feature btw, because it gives me very little control and SCREWS things up most of the time. Couple of times synch just deleted all the apps I had on my iTouch just because I used fresh copy of iTunes. Also every time I delete movie on iTouch after synch it's back but not playable (because file is not actually there).
I agree with you but you don't need iTunes to manage your music, WinAmp has Ipod support:
http://www.simplehelp.net/2007/07/07/how-to-use-winamp-to-manage-your-ipod/
or you can use this: http://mlipod.sourceforge.net/
It's so damn simple, can't understand why anyone would believe that drag and drop is not available in iTunes. All you have to do is set your iPod/iPhone to sync manually and its done.
@patriotsn1
Just in case you ever want to know how to actually pronounce the word.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/synch
hmm this could turn into a fun bitch slap fest :D I just find it funny that Apple/AT&T felt threatened enough that they felt they had to release a document that spreads quite a few lies/misinformation.
Lies??
@barry99705: Yes, like that the iphone works in "over 205 countries." This is clearly untrue since there aren't 205 countries in existance.
"metal and glass design" avoiding the fact that the majority of the chassis (the thing they criticize Palm for) is made up of plastice - lie at a stretch, would be willing to call this misinformation.
"multi-touch display, fast + responsive" then for Palm "touch screen" again avoiding the fact that the Pre's screen is multitouch, and from what we've seen fast and responsive - id call this a lie or at least willfully leaving information out that leaves you at a disadvantage (which may as well be called lying).
"WiFi connections worldwide" again simply leaving out that the Pre could do the exact same thing, deliberate misinformation
"very limited business apps at launch" outright lie, number 1 because it's hasn't been launched yet, and number 2 because it's made by Palm and has been shown to have a very rich selection of business apps, even before including those possible with the emulator.
haha! I only just noticed that :P but it's true there currently are 203 sovereign states, and that number includes those that aren't generally recognized internationally. If you asked for a more official figure it's somewhere around 195.
@Mark - Good catch! How reliable is a comparison when they say their phone works in, at least, 10 more countries than actually exist in the world (depending on source).
-Kevin
What AT&T and Apple recognize is the enormous number of current and previous Palm users that are out there. The Palm platform served a lot of people very well for over a decade. A lot of people spent a lot of time and money on Palm-compatible applications during that time. The Palm branding alone is very formidable in this space. If AT&T and/or Apple takes the Palm Pre too lightly, they could see a lot of people defecting to a device that is PERCEIVED as being more familiar and more user-friendly.
I believe at least a few of the missing countries are Steve Jobs' ego.
@Mark They probably count England, Wales, Puerto Rico, Palestine, etc... as countires. It's a bit misleading, but not wholly untrue.
Hey, if apple tells me there are 205 countries, then there are 205 countries no questions asked!!!
Having a iphone, I feel your comment, Palm has got me interested.
Yeah, speaking of "lies/misinformation" and "releasing a document," don't forget that the Pre is going to be "a million times faster!"
http://investor.palm.com/secfiling.cfm?filingID=1193125-09-48035
But hey, it's just companies talking about their products, so we really have to take these things with a grain of salt. Both companies are trying their best to downplay the other's device.
well none of those are too substantive ... unfortunately att has its flag on its mast.
but really why get either phone locked? that should be the first thing on that gay little list.
"metal and glass design"
*looks over at an iPhone 3G* Huh, I could swear the back of this bloody piece of shit is plastic...
But it has worldwide Wi-Fi!
M
"Touchscreen gestures not intuitive"? Aren't most of the known gestures so similar to the iPhone's that a few weeks ago the blogosphere was convinced Apple would sue?
Damn beat me to it!
But to add on to that- "not intuitive"? Isn't that based on opinion? Don't get me wrong, I really enjoy Apple products, but the times I've used the iPhone it wasn't intuitive at all for me. I'm sure some would disagree w/ me, but that only proves my point. But then again I haven't tried out the Pre (which I'm VERY excited to get my hands on) so it could be non-intuitive.
yeah, most of AT&T's claims are pretty dubious. "unproven app store?" well it will be proven soon enough. And i would i say i prefer drag and drop for media, though it would be good for both phones to let you choose.
They were convinced until Apple got sued by quite a credible source over Apples 'patented' multi-touch technology.
The comparison is obviously a pile of junk. This got "leaked" instead of getting officially released by AT&T because if it did, Palm lawyers would sue AT&T for everything they have (or a lot of dollars, at least).
NOTHING CAN COMPETE WITH TEH IPHONEZ! NOTHING!!
/Did best apple fanboy impression. Now off to have Starbucks coffee and listen to that fruity singer dude ... John Mayer there ya go.
nothin fruity about a guy whos doozin it with jennifer anniston
no u r not a fish, but you do seem to be a plant. which lacks a nervous system
grow a brain, then come on to engadget
*slowly raises hand, weeps in shame*
@ kangbp.nyc
'u' and 'r' are completely unacceptable shortforms in the blogging world (unless you're less than 10 years old....). Too lazy to type out three letter words? - finish growing your brain and then come to Engadget........
@jinjin - "nothin fruity about a guy whos doozin it with jennifer anniston"
Freddy Mercury lived with a women for years before he finally gayed out.
It's funny how they say "plastic casing" for the Pre! What's the iPhone 3G's back made up of ?
Also they don't say anything about the roaming charges, because if they did no one would think of iPhone as a world phone either!
And imo drag-and-drop is waaaaaaaaay better than syncing with iTunes. iTunes = pain!
We have phones from three different carriers in my office. We have winmo phones, crackberries, iPhones, and "just phones". The "just phones" are the cheapest, followed by the iPhone, then the winmo phones and last is the crackberries. That's including the overseas roaming charges.
@barry99705
What are you talking about? Cheapest in what respect...and roaming charges have nothing to do with what OS is running on your phone.
I smell the fruit folks in Cupertino don't like competition by any means. This is a path to getting dethroned......it's a proven trend.
Except this is a piece of bull**** from AT&T not Apple. I doubt Cupertino is too worried about the Pre - probably taking a neutral stance since its going to deflect from WinMo, Nokia and Android. Competition is good - except where the telcos are concerned.....
This only makes me hate the iPod even more, and make me desire the Pre even more. AT&T = morons.
Not a very fair comparison. The thing hasn't even been released yet.
They forgot to mention the cool stickers you get with Apple products!! You can be as cool as this guy!
I mean seriously, could you be any more of a douche?
http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/EricMcintire/?action=view¤t=IMAG0001.jpg
wooow laughed so hard when i saw that XD
Hahahaha
No, that's called pride. I have yet to see anyone with a sticker from another OS on their vehicle... THAT would be douchey.
Hmm.. I thought the iCar would be a bit more impressive.
Something Skeezle would drive, I'm sure.
Why is it "pride" when it's Apple but "douchey" when it's any other OS? For the record, I would have considered someone with a Windows bumper sticker just as much of a douche... I mean this guy LITERALLY removed his car's factory emblem to put on an Apple sticker and then put clear coat over it so it could never come off.. WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE? IT'S JUST A COMPUTER... If anything he's gonna get laid a lot less now.
You just posted that picture so we would look at you with the hot girls. Perv. :-)
nice picture. i love how the iCar is a hyundai elantra. :)
haha considering your in west hollywood im surprised it isnt a rainbow colored sticker
@patriotsn1: Thank you. I was starting to lose my faith on humanity.
@aaron: some Linux users also feel the need to display their love for their prefered OS that way; they are also douches on my book. People who use Windows don't do that because as much as we are aware of its problems, that doesn't change the fact that for some reason or other it is better for our needs. It's a tool, not a lifestyle.
@d889
Yeah.... Most of the cars I see with Apple stickers also have rainbow stickers.. For some reason Apple users love to stick every aspect of their lives on the back of their car for some reason assuming I care about their life.
My car has a BSD sticker - so, there ya go.
LLLLMMMMAAAAAOOOOOO!!!! What a prick!
Well, I could understand Linux pride because linux is more than just an operating system, it's a philosophy . . . a way of life, if you wish to romanticize it.
However, that apple sticker is first class douchery - "I overpaid for my computer and I that makes me awesome!"?
Dealer: So you want me to take off the badge and put on this sticker?
Pathetic Owner: Oh yes please!
Dealer: All right then....
( A drop of water rolls off the car's headlight...)
"I mean seriously, could you be any more of a douche?"
Someone could post about something off-topic and make a mountain out of a molehill, I suppose. That would be a start.
iPhone's memory is available in black or white?
Hahahahahahaha