Microsoft's motion-sensing Xbox 360 add-on a result of 3DV acquisition?
By Donald Melanson 
posted May 5th 2009 2:30PM
posted May 5th 2009 2:30PM
We've already gotten a pretty thorough rundown of the motion-sensing Xbox 360 add-on that Microsoft supposedly has in store for this year's E3, and it looks like the folks at Ars Technica have now pieced together a few more of the pieces and figured out exactly where the device might have came from. Apparently, the device has been around in some form as far back as CES 2008, where little-known upstart 3DV was showing off its own ZCam system which, according to Ars, was able to perform just about all of the functions that Microsoft's device is able to. That didn't exactly cause a huge stir at the time, but it was apparently enough to attract the interest of Microsoft, which reportedly went after the company shortly thereafter and seems to have finally gone through with the acquisition earlier this year. Coincidence? Maybe. But Microsoft's history is certainly pushing this one into the more-likely-than-not column.
Tee hee, the waggles. Oh brother.
Expect a video of some uncomfortable and awkward Microsoft exec's making assess out of themselves when they attempt to demonstrate this stupid device come E3.
Didn't they already demo this concept at last years E3?
If they can top the "in the movies" demo they did, it will be magical.
Hardware alone won't beat the Wii.
It's the games that matter.
"January 11th, 2011: Total US Xbox360 sales eclipses the Wii - fans, consumers tire of Nintendo's mini-game bullshit."
I disagree.. Except for a few 1st party games, the software on the Wii blows. Yet it sells well.
@Dorf
You've hit the nail on the head. It's the 1st party titles that sell the Wii. I don't care how many totally awesome games the 360 has, I CANNOT go without my mario, zelda, and metroid.
Pretty funny to see a comment believing that the Wii's strength is software.
yeah I bought a wii because of the hardware then sold it because I didnt like its software.
According to you guys, Wii Fit is a flop, since you didn't buy it. Now go check the npd numbers.
nobody said the Wii was a flop... Dorf acknowledged that it sells very well. but this certainly isn't due to superior hardware OR software...
Hey, Grampa, may I borrow your TV rack? ...and the carpet also
Looks like grandpa likes Sony WEGA televisions. Why would gramps cover the logo with electrical tape....hmmmmmm, that's a little weird.
Maybe it will have the same support Eye Toy and PSEye had/have. NONE.
Let's see if I can get people talking...Vista is very stable....Mac's suck because they cost alot...
Yeah, Mercedes and Porsche suck, too because they cost a lot.
Not to mention the fact that Mercedes and Porche crash just like a Ford Focus. What trash.
not much to talk about, everything you said was correct :)
Isn't everything Microsoft produces a result of an acquisition?
Some is.. .some ain't. Just like some stuff that Palm, Apple, Symantec, etc. use is a result of acquisitions.. That's how the tech world works..
You're right. In fact, on October 28, 1955, Bill Gates acquired his brain and after a few decades released Office and Windows!
FTA: "In our time spent with it, felt even better than Nintendo's"
I don't know if that's a fair comparison. Right now, it's looks like an improved EyeToy--with similar limitations. The fact that your image was displayed on the screen at all times doesn't bode well for the technology. Granted, they obviously don't have to show your image, but it makes one wonder whether that's practical--after all, if you exit the camera's field of vision, you may not realize it, and the game clearly won't detect anything you're doing outside that range. And if they do have to show you on-screen, it will only work in the most basic of applications, as it would be immersion-breaking and detrimental to any deeper experiences (try playing Zelda or Halo with that?).
Also, no buttons? Or tactile feedback (rumble, controller speaker). And how would you move your virtual character? Would you have to hold a 360 controller as well?
In short, they've seen in employed in one game--a very contrived example at that. I'm not ruling out that it could be very impressive technology, but to declare it better than Nintendo (particularly with MotionPlus just around the corner) seems a bit premature.
I think I'll roll with what the guys from ars say... FTA: "In our time spent with it, felt even better than Nintendo's"
There's nothing FYC (from your comments) that suggests you've spent any time with it, though FYC you like to defend Nintendo a lot. ;)
You mean motionplus, the thing that everyone who has used hates? that motionplus?
"There's nothing FYC (from your comments) that suggests you've spent any time with it, though FYC you like to defend Nintendo a lot."
I've "defended" Nintendo twice. You're right, I haven't used this tech, and I didn't pretend to. However, I did watch the videos and what I saw wasn't that impressive, for the reasons I cited. This is very similar to stuff we've already seen years ago on EyeToy--and regardless of my trying it or not, it won't mitigate some of my concerns, unless Microsoft has other ideas in mind (like a motion-sensing controller) to work in conjunction with the camera.
Listen, I own both a Wii and a 360--I love both systems for separate and distinct reasons. I've berated Nintendo for its piss-poor "classic controller," which is similar to this situation--a console offering an experience contrary to its original intent. This tech does not seem it would have been practical applications for delivering deep game experiences.
Given everything ars had to say about the tech, it sounds very compelling, especially from a media point of view, especially the Media Center extender interface.
I would guess that games designed for the device would be much better than trying to control something like Crackdown with hand gestures.
I can agree that the ars "Wii Killer" title may be hyperbolic, because the Wii has nothing to worry about. At the same time, I just didn't find your concerns compelling, especially the "your image on screen at all times" comment, since there is absolutely no technical reason for that to be the case. In short, your concerns seemed to be disspelled by the article itself.
"I can agree that the ars "Wii Killer" title may be hyperbolic, because the Wii has nothing to worry about. At the same time, I just didn't find your concerns compelling, especially the "your image on screen at all times" comment, since there is absolutely no technical reason for that to be the case. In short, your concerns seemed to be disspelled by the article itself."
I addressed this in my original point. If there wasn't a compelling reason to have your image displayed on the screen, then why was that the case? The EyeToy resorted to the same technique, as there was no other gauge to determine whether the camera was picking up your movements or not. I think this could be a very significant hindrance to offering compelling gameplay experiences.
@John
What are you talking about? All of the impressions I've heard/read (and I've seen a lot, as I work in the industry) have been extremely positive. What negative impressions have you read, except for the one posted on this very site--a year ago?
xbox scratches my disks enough as is. If I need to move it around to play a game I am almost positive it will last about 15.893 seconds after I start moving it around.
fuck this idea.
is sony bringing anything similar..!?! if this is really going to be a game changer, they way we interact with media center and games..man am gonna chuck my ps3 and get an xbox 360.. luks like sony is just interested in removing useless UMD (finally!!) from the psp (to be honest..which is also becoming useless after i got my iphone..).. WAKE UP sony...
Engadget had a new rumour via Variety about a Wii like update...
http://www.engadget.com/2009/05/01/playstation-3-motion-sensing-controller-to-be-shown-off-at-e3/
chk this out...
http://www.3dvsystems.com/gallery/gallery.html
Do some searches on "eye toy" and "motion tracking" or "head tracking." Sony has done tech demos showing that the Eye Toy can be used similarly to what the rumored X360 gadget does. The Sony tech demos don't seem to have the same level of sensitivity, however.
At the end of the day, it'll be more about what games they can come up with. The PS3 can track your head, but there aren't any games that take advantage of it, so who cares? MS will need to be more innovative than just a boxing game to make this technology interesting.
the only cool thing i can think of is maybe in FPS when you lean to the side like an idiot on your couch thinking you can avoid getting hit .... maybe your character will actually lean?
There are a few light gun games in the arcade where you lean to dodge (Police 24/7 and I think Lethan Enforcers 3) and it's fun as a novelty for the few minutes you get to play. The problem is it's nothing more than a novelty so while it works for a short game in the arcade it would be bloody annoying if you had to do it constantly though a long game. That's the problem with all this motion senseing and EyeToy like crap - it doesn't in any way enhance the game and usually works a lot worse than a regular controller.
This won't only be used for games. In Engadget's earlier article (the first one) about this, included in the list of functionality was the ability to manipulate objects on screen, scrolling, and etc. What I took from that was the possibility that it will be entirely possible to manipulate the Dashboard simply by using your hand and fingers (a la Iron Man or Minority Report).
Additionally, don't be surprised if they include a Wiimote- or Nunchuck-like add-on to control some basic in-game functions, such as walking or etc, to make it easier for the user control (I don't know how many people are going to want to have to walk around New Vegas in Fallout 4). However, as far as FPSs are concerned, I fully expect to have a Zapper-like gun (though...I suspect it would be something a bit more mature) with face buttons and thumbsticks available at some point so that people can be even more immersed in killing aliens/humans/hookers (yes, humans and hookers are different).
Oh, and in direct relation to the article's title: Isn't the answer obvious?
Hey Engadget, you know that all the info in this story was already brought to like in the original story a few days ago, right? Your readers already figured it out. Ars was late to the game.
If they actually complete making this for the 360 there will no longer be a need for me to have a Wii. Microsoft will make better games and their third party developers won't nearly as bad as Nintendo's. Another thing, Microsoft won't only allow crappy games for "casual" gamers, it will be all about the "hardcore" gamers again.
That black thing under the tv is the powersupply for the microsoft motion controller, right?
As long as this doesn't mean the 360 is going to be inundated with shovelware from now on, I'm ok. Motion control and stuff is cool (though, this may be taking it a bit too far: you have to simulate dives? Really?) but more often that not, dev's just crank out terrible games because people will buy it for the totally fantastic motion control. I do like the concept though: it's like a motion sensor and Eyetoy hybrid. We'll see how it goes.
Engadget = Fail!
Engadget, maybe you should read readers comments sometimes...
4 days ago :
http://www.engadget.com/2009/05/01/xbox-360-to-get-motion-sensing-add-on-with-full-body-game-contro/comments/18619242/
Yup, I posted this 4 days ago :
http://www.engadget.com/2009/05/01/xbox-360-to-get-motion-sensing-add-on-with-full-body-game-contro/comments/18619242/
oops sorry for the double post, was replying to Nikescar.
"Hardware alone won't beat the Wii.
It's the games that matter."
Wii has games? LOL
Did everyone forget? Ensemble had hinted that Halo Wars would be gesture based at first. They were a first party dev, so they'd know about it, and a killer app sells hardware. Picture Halo Wars with this, now it makes more sense. Then console RTS's would be playable...
I agree. Halo Wars with motion based controls (from the same universe as Minority Report) would be AWESOME.
Outside of that, bring on the fitness software. There's a big audience for that stuff. (pah-dum-pish)
People, please use your imagination
Read my blog about the damn thing ;-)
http://www.n4g.com/up/86751/BlogPostCom-321874.aspx
The tech Microsoft will use are grander than the Xbox360 and the PS3, it’s the future of how you will interact with your TV, PC, mobile and Xbox360.
The thing will probably be compatible with mediacenter and Win7.
You will control everything with gestures and sound, flicking around your menus (music, movies and games) and speak instead of writing.
If that’s not a cool factor then I don’t know what is (and yes I am the guy who thinks “clapping to turn on the lights” is cool).
It's not necessary for games to have full support for it, they can implement parts to complement the Xbox controller,
see this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd3-eiid-Uw
Now after you’ve seen the video, think about the head tracking use in Splinter cell or Forza 3, where you play with the controller but control your vision with the “cam”. how about that :D
Microsoft started working on Xbox motion sensing long, long before the 3DV acquisition. I learned about it last fall. It has been Microsoft's Manhattan Project and they believe that multi-player, full-body motion sensing will completely revolutionize home gaming. I think they may be right. And yes, I said multi-player - the system supports up to four simultaneous players and can tell them apart. They actually have had 8 separate teams working on this, all taking different approaches, in the hopes that one would succeed. Turns out more than one did. Some have highly-regarded academic researchers in the area of motion sensing, others have self-taught graphics gurus hacking away.
As far as I understand, this system requires a lot of custom hardware outside the actual sensor bar because of the enormous processing demands, so this is actually for the next Xbox (720?) which is coming out way sooner than anyone so far has reported. The picture may just be a 720 prototype in a 360 case, or intentional misdirection.
I wondered at the time why they bought 3DV, but it's pretty simple: patents and keeping similar tech out of the hands of competition.
The Wii fad shows every sign of waning, and only now, Microsoft and Sony are entering the market with their own version of "hackin' and wackin' and smackin' ". Everyone and their pet poodle are already bored with this style of gameplay. Only noobs, and old people still use their glorified pet rock, mostly for exercise. lol