Editorial: Engadget on the Kindle DX
By Nilay Patel 
posted May 6th 2009 2:16PM
posted May 6th 2009 2:16PM
Update: Paul tacked on his thoughts as well.
Thomas:
Kindle, what the hell is a Kindle? While you US Americans are showering in Amazon's third iteration of E-Ink, you know what we're doing over here in Europe? Watching Sony's Reader choke-hold the marketplace in a tag-team with Google's half-million strong collection of free, public domain books. Nothing makes us happier than a good Gee Dubya joke and a polite romance set in Victorian times. I say good day sir.
Nilay:
As a Kindle 2 owner, my first reaction is to be a little ticked off -- I would have likely sprung for the DX if I'd had the option back in February, and now I just feel like I wasted $360. On the other hand, after a few months with the Kindle, I've basically given up on it -- it's just not as good as a real book, and that makes me wonder if students are really going to take to the DX when it hits colleges and universities. I spent a lot of time in college and law school at library tables stacked six inches deep in open reference books, and there's simply no way to recreate that experience with a Kindle, no matter how big the screen. Plus, I know I'm not the only one who writes all over the margin and highlights in five colors when I study -- if I tried to do the same using the tools on the Kindle, I'd basically end up with a totally inverted screen. Maybe I'm wrong and all the kids are clamoring for a $500 black and white e-book whose advantages over paper are dwarfed by its limitations, but I have a feeling the Kindle DX will be a novelty on the academic scene for a long time to come.
As for newspapers, the math simply doesn't make sense. Let's use the New York Times as an example: at-home paper delivery of the Times for a year costs a new subscriber something like $617. Compare that to the Kindle pricing of $13.99 a month plus $498 for a DX -- hello, $665.88. From a consumer standpoint, that's actually kind of a win, since the Kindle offers much more than just the Times. But from the NYT's point of view, it's totally obvious why subsidized Kindles will only be available on contract to people who aren't in the delivery area -- there just isn't enough cash coming in from their cut of the Kindle edition to keep the paper afloat. Will this change? Sure -- but not until the NYT stops spending money on printing the paper every day.
Darren:
Amazon has to be aiming at a different sector than just consumers here. Creating two devices for the same segment within three months makes absolutely no business sense, and I'm guessing the company is hoping to shuffle these things into public school systems (government checks are attractive, you know) and select universities ready to jump on the bandwagon and generate a little buzz. Truth be told, the price isn't so outrageous when you're selling this to institutions. It is a little extreme if you're a simple consumer, but again, I'm guessing Bezos isn't really expecting too many of you to care about its super-sized e-reader.
Oh, and the DX won't save newspapers -- partner papers won't even subsidize this thing if you're within range of a paper route, which is just about as myopic as it gets. Has it even dawned on these folks that people don't enjoy getting a wad of paper thrown on their deck anymore? Bottom line is this: Amazon has to be thinking outside of the consumer realm with the DX. Be it public school systems, universities or other enterprises, that is where the money is. You'll notice newspapers weren't included in that mix -- obviously, they're not interested in throwing tradition to the wind in a last-ditch effort to find a life raft. Too bad.
Don:
My thinking is that the success of the Kindle DX depends almost solely on the pricing of the content. If textbooks are 40 to 50 percent cheaper than the ones in the university bookstore then the device will practically pay for itself (even at $489), and Amazon will have opened the door to a huge potential market. Alternatively, if newspaper subscriptions are offered at a heavily discounted rate, or if the DX itself is offered at a subsidized price with a newspaper subscription, then it'll get a strong foothold in a niche that's only going to get bigger. Of course, the chances of either of those happening is probably less than 50-50, and the chances of both are slim to none, which leaves the Kindle DX in much the same position as the original Kindle and Kindle 2: a device that either needs to get a whole lot better or a whole lot cheaper.
Chris:
Amazon appears to be trying to frame the e-book market much the same way Apple (or any manufacturer, but particularly Apple) frames the laptop market: the 15-inch and 17-inch MacBook Pros are virtually identical in appearance, performance, and specification, for example, but the distinction is somehow totally justified. Problem is, e-books are in the very first moments of their infancy, and consumers are still looking for a single product they can rally around -- the last thing we need is nebulously-differentiated stratification across an entire product line that alienates early adopters and has the potential to hush folks who otherwise could've been evangelists for the technology. If Amazon wanted to release the Kindle 2, fine; if it wanted to release the DX, fine; but releasing two similarly-positioned devices just months apart is a confusing (and potentially upsetting) move at this point in the game, despite the company's clear signals that Kindle is as much a platform as it is a product. Talk to me again when the market's mature, guys -- in the meantime, you won't see me buying another Kindle until they're in brilliant, flexible color.
Paul:
To be honest, I don't understand the big kerfuffle. 8.5 x 11 is a really important size for a lot of people that were born before the "internet" was kind of a big deal -- what's wrong with giving them the option, even if it comes three months after the Kindle 2? Sure, it's expensive, and no, I won't be buying one, but I don't think it's too early to have multiple credible, distinct options from a single manufacturer. I also recognize that this isn't going to Change Education As We Know It, but we've gotta start somewhere. Most technology takes quite a bit of incubating before it's truly applicable to most people, and while the Kindle DX won't make e-books the de facto standard in education, it's a decent step in that direction. A future generation is going to think those paper textbooks we all used "back in the day" were pretty silly, so for the sake of generational pride I'm happy to be moving in the right direction.
i would so use this if my textbooks were on it.
Recently, I got an opportunity to borrow the iRex Reader 1000 for a week. Seeing as I have some of my university textbooks in pdf format, I loaded them on to see how it was. To be honest, I was very dissappointed. Not by the device itself, it really is a beauty and e-ink is a wonderful technology. But when I study, I am constantly going back and forth in my textbooks, to reread and compare. The refresh rate of these devices makes this quite a painful affair.
It is immensely frustrating when you want to have another look at a formula on a previous page, and because that page is no longer in cache, you have to wait a couple of seconds (for image heavy pdf files i'd sometimes have to wait almost 30 secoonds if the page was not cached) before the page turns. I found it too disruptive in my studying to be useful. As much as I love the concept of these devices, these kinds of limitations kept me from purchasing one. It really cannot replace the usability of a textbook (though the increased portability is absolutely wonderfull).
On the other hand, I also loaded up some novels, and that is where the device started to shine for me. Due to lack of images and predictive lookahead caching, page turns werent disruptive at all, and it was quite a pleasure to read on its amazing screen. I think I read more in that week than in the previous months combined. But for novels, you do not need a large device like this, a smaller device is much better for that purpose.
So yeah, I really don't see this new Kindle catching on. However, if it helps E-Ink technology become cheaper and more mature in the future, then it has my full support.
The only real advantage I see to this for textbooks is text searching. This is the real advantage to digital libraries and .pdf files. So many nights studying, I wish I could just search for a particular phrase in my 800 page text book so I could just skim the definition. The index just doesn't cut it most times. But what this would need marginal notes and a savable highlight functions for this to even begin to replace a text book, and maybe an external output to display two books at once for comparisons or displaying multiple references (or split screen viewing).
Also, a slightly lighter backpack would go a little easier on the back some days.
Ideas:
-a touchscreen with a stylus [gross i know - but you can highlight passages.]
-side screen with page numbers down the side [similar to the iphone's (yes, an apple reference) artist organization] that way you can flip to a page easily. also a bookmarker along the side panel to flip to set page.
-foldable: like a book [who would have thought?]
-speedier [this will come with time; i would rather have a little thicker device than waste valuable time w/loading; plus, nothing can be too much thicker than my chemistry book anyways]
-search feature of course
-lecture recorder- external keyboard for note taking in lectures [one side of folding tablet is text, other side notebook]
ambitious i know. but it would sell.
copyright neal l 2009-infinity
But (I think) you won't really be able to sell back or sell the "textbook" to another person, which I know a lot of students do to make up for their costs or at least allows students to find bargains. Also, if publishers allows pdf downloads, students are resourceful; it won't be long before there's a copy floating around. I'll admit I'm not all too familiar with all this, that might be an issue that can be easily contained. However, some textbooks I've purchased have come with a media copy, which I didn't really use because cross referencing things in the same book can be really involved (and disruptive as noted in another comment) compared to just flipping pages in a book.
As an academic, the kindle is really invaluable and I'll pay whatever price they're asking for this. The search features, the instant access, the portability are just too good to give up. Also, a note to those above, the kindle actually supports highlighting and notation, although touch features would be nice. Also, I can't vouch for the abilities of the IRex reader, but my kindle 1 never takes more than about 5 seconds to load even the most intricate images it can handle,
I don't really see this as all that useful for newspapers, but textbooks on the kindle are great as it is and a bigger screen will certainly help. Really, it will help on just about anything since if I have the text increased to a comfortable size (another often neglected advantage of ebooks) I find myself having to turn the pages too often.
As long as Amazon recognizes that they are dealing with a very targeted market they should do fine with this. I understand the complaints some have with this (except for those arguing for that other readers have public domain books, the Kindle works with those just fine but If you aren't interested in reading things as soon as possible then you really aren't the target audience here), but as someone with specialized needs it's a real lifesaver.
The problem here for the textbook market will always be greedy textbook publishers. The few publishers that will sign on will more than likely offer subscriptions or rentals rather than letting you purchase, and with very little if any price advantage over the actual book. On top of that you can't sell them at the end of the semester to recoup costs. These problems in addition to the $500 price tag are more than enough for me to say that there will be no Kindle DX in my future.
In most countries outside US they use ISO-A4, but not LetterSize(8.5X11)
So I guest it really wouldn't be ported out.
I hate American Standard(not only toilets)
OK not really hating how these standards were made.
but hey
What's with ISO, it's anyway hard to be International if it does not include
a country call US.
@nDy
The paper size used in various countries is completely irrelevant as to whether or not that country could use a Kindle. Kindle content itself is designed to be scaled and therefore viewable on an infinite range of screen sizes. The negligible difference between A4 and letter is trivial.
@nDy
Oh and for the record, the Kindle DX screen is neither A4 nor US Letter. It's smaller than both.
hmmm...let's see - the kindle2 and the kindleDX were probably being designed and developed simultaneously [definitely with overlaps]. As such, one cannot imagine that there could be such severe differences in the hardware / software implementation that a feature like PDF reading cannot be implemented for the kindle2. If, in fact, it cannot be done, then this was clearly planned obsolescence - which, in this day and age, is ridiculous.
I'm a big fan of e-ink technology and would like to see it implemented in as many ways as possible [I use the Motofone F3 : [thinkmoreinc.wordpress.com] ]. But I cannot see how this move by Amazon would endear itself to its current customers, or those waiting in the wings. Could the color kindle be 3 months away?
In my comment above, I was trying to say that it would be clearly a good idea for a company to establish a product / category and allow it to mature just a little before jumping in and fragmenting the market. It's a little early to set up such product differentiation - especially if the color kindle may be just months away.
As for the Motofone [my favorite e-ink based product so far], here's the link : http://thinkmoreinc.wordpress.com/2009/03/19/50-2/
PDFs are not implemented on the Kindle2 because the screen resolution is too small to view fix format PDFs without scrolling and scrolling is a big no no for e-link. Since the DX can take any PDF, I wonder how it handles scrolling for PDFs with large page sizes.
It's a great looking device, but the size doesn't looks as portable.
It would be nice if they put the PDF reader in the Kindle 2 at least.
I would like to see an example of a newspaper page on the kindle.
also, what happened to the rumored touchscreen?
maybe next month....
I like how Thomas tried his best to fit the stereotype perfectly. lol.
8.5x11 .5" frame flush to the screen with a touch screen (with captive stylus input). Only 1 on and off button on the top. I'm still waiting.
Hey, I like this format. You guys should do this more often with other new products.
I agree, but we do get that weekly with the podcast, with a lot more humour as well.
I really enjoyed reading this format too - seemed more personal. Do more like this!
I fourth this idea - fantastic format!~
I'm a student and because of this fact, I have to go with Nilay. There is simply no better solution to sitting at a table with tons of books nearby. It allows you to be looking at several different subject areas, not just one on a screen. It also is the studying factor, how much easier is it to just be able to highlight and tab little sections with multiple books? The Kindle DX seems more of a fancy thing you would buy if you had the money, not something you especially need. Also, I think it's pretty funny how Amazon released 2 Kindles within 3 months of each other. I disagree with the fact that they're trying to corner the market with different screen sizes, that just doesn't make a whole lot of sense. All in all, I'm sure they'll sell well enough to have a second and possibly even third iteration, it all depends on how the economy fares.
I just don't get this whole "too many models" or "it's too confusing". One is bigger and costs more. Even the knuckle-dragging average consumer can wrap their head around that one. How is this different than a stereo manufacturer that offers 12 different amps? A computer company offers how many different models? Cripes! I even have to decide between 3 grades of gas at the same pump.
As for me (no eBook reader at all right now) I like the larger size. The smaller ones won't work for my needs. I don't like the price but may still pull the trigger on it. I do wish Plastic Logic would get theirs out the door but I'm not sure i want to wait that long.
I think Darren has the right of this. The Kindle DX doesn't make sense for newspapers or for consumers. However, it does make sense for textbooks and businesses that do a lot of 8-1/2 by 11 printing. Even if annotating and highlighting is difficult, and even if there isn't much of a price drop to digital textbooks, anyone who's had to carry several classes worth of textbooks around for a day can see some appeal here. Also, at higher levels of education, as well as with businesses, much of the reading material is in PDF form.
Also, as a recent Kindle 2 buyer I have the opposite reaction as Niley is having. As a consumer, there's no way I would have shelled out the extra $140 for this over the Kindle 2, which probably fits my needs better anyways.
without a significant drop in price going from traditional textbook to digital textbook, I dont see how many college students can afford to spend $500 on this device.....and that is assuming that ALL of their textbooks are even available on the DX
textbooks on the kindle have to be cheap enough, so that even after selling the textbook back to the bookstore it is still clearly cheaper to buy digital.
also curious, how many years do you think it would take to make your money back assuming digital textbooks are cheaper, or is just the convenience factor enough?
I disagree. When I worked on my masters, many of my comp sci books had electronic versions (pdf, ebook, etc) that you could buy (or pirate) or were included on the CD that came with the physical book. I carried the actual books around anyway.
Sure it would've been easier just to lug my laptop, but reading text on a tiny LCD screen gets irritating, especially considering that much of my projects (and therefore non-school time) were spent staring at text- err, code- on the screen anyway. It's so much easier on the eyes, and my battery wouldn't last an entire day (I was constantly moving so pulling out the AC PSU/plug wasn't fun, plus I could study on the metro).
Several classes had multiple books, and relied on other references. Constantly switching between different textbooks on a kindle is a PITA.
The problem with using this for textbooks is that you cannot resell the textbook after your finished with it.
If textbooks are sold at a low enough price, selling it back becomes irrelevant. It's a double win if it's a text book that's actually worth keeping as a reference.
My experience with sell back textbooks is you don't get much for them anyway. Occasionally, I would get a decent amount if the book is for a class that everyone takes. But once you get into specialized classes without a lot of students, the money falls off dramatically. This is assuming they aren't going to a different book or a new edition is out.
Once they add color, can we finally call it a 'netbook'?
I really didn't understand the point of the DX from a mass market point of view. However if Darren proves correct and Amazon will be partnering with public schools and universities (universities in particular) that puts a different spin on things. Also if the books are discounted as heavily as Don mentioned I think those that have an affinity for writing in margins and such (Sorry Nilay) will adapt in name of saving money. Beer money is scarce these days after all ;)
Seriously though, with the +$400.00 price tag, wouldn't a simple netbook be enough for most reading uses without the cost?
No. Reading a whole book or magazine or newspaper on an LCD screen becomes painful and will ruin your eyes.
What college student does that? For some disciplines I see it being useful, ie business and law for case studies, but not for engineering and sciences where textbooks are used more as a reference.
I think Don has the right take, as it has a lot to do with marketing a lower price array of text books and ultimately undercutting the used textbook market for more profit to the publishers. Text book publishers actually have some incentive to invest in the long term success of the Big K.
Personally I think it's about time Kindle has native PDF, and if it has touch screen it would be a home run rather than a disputed fan-interfered double that it currently is.
What I don't like about all this Kindle thing is that if I buy a book, after I read it, it can go to my wife or my brother or to any friend that comes home and takes it with him. Same thing with newspapers, I pay a subscription, but we are at least 2 people to read it daily.
Kindle has the problem of uploading my stuff into it. It's a long lap before I can have all my stuff ready to read. I have to send it to Amazon's site, then check my email and then I can upload it.
Great article, but who are these people btw? Is it Darren Rowse? or Darren Whom? :)
I've owned a Sony Reader for a couple of years now, and have completely integrated it into my lifestyle. With over a hundred books on it, I take it everywhere with me. The DX sounds very compelling and will most likely spring for it once it's introduced into the marketplace (unless of course Sony also introduces a big screen Reader first!). I use Kindle for my iPhone and have been enjoying it as well. From the reports I predict it will be a winner in spite of the rather steep initial price.
I get the Boston Globe delivered on Sunday between 8:30 and 9 and like last week not at all. I'm ready for the Sunday paper to be E-delivered but are they ready?
Amazon needs to get its arse in gear! No Kindle in UK... No Amazon iPhone apps in UK... It's not as if Amazon hasn't got a presence in UK. They are a massive retailer. Oh, but... its kind of like MS with Zune and media center, and I'm sure it won't be the last time we are neglected by big US corps. TAKE MY MONEY!!!! Please!!!!
Kindle 1 - Meh. Kindle 2 - Meh. Kindle DX - Meh. Talk to me when you can display color, and not cost as much as a laptop until then I will continue to not be impressed.
I know. You can't enjoy the Dora The Explorer books you like so much in black & white, can you?
Seriously... Who needs color for a novel? You're not a reader, are you?
What I want to know is how many people in the US are both outside the delivery range of the NY Times and inside the range of the 3G service. I guess there's always wifi...
That newspaper subscriptions are only available to people who can't get the paper delivered is moronic. The Times should have provided nationwide availability. They forget that their content is already free for netbooks with wifi.Those of us that subscribe to it are really being pushed to cancel and just get the website for free. On the other hand $9.99 seemed reasonable to get from many of us, and I think the Times would get many more $9.99 subscriptions than $40 dollar paper-delivery subscriptions.
If I were still in school I'd give it a shot - 15lbs less to lug around campus would have been really helpful.
Picked up a 12 inch Motion Computing LE1600 touchscreen on ebay for $300. Doesn't have the battery life, but 1.5 gb ram, 30 gig hard drive, and plays most media I'm interested in, plus MobiPocket books, PDFs from the NY public library digital collection, and dear old Gutenberg.org. The Kindle is pathetic.
@GregB: Reading over long periods of time on an LCD screen is total fail. You must not be much of a reader. eInk is wonderful for this, so please stop with the "just read it on your laptop/netbook/phone" conceit.
@Thomas in the post: You mean those same 500,000 public domain books that are available on the Kindle as well? The 500,000 books of which many are just duplicate versions/renderings of the same book? So really the *maybe* 100,000 that aren't already available on Amazon to be delivered to the Kindle wirelessly, and those you can get from any source and drop them on the Kindle yourself. Is Thomas a Sony shill?
Sigh. The Kindle is not sold in Europe. Period. Thus there is no Kindle vs. Reader comparison to be made from our viewpoint.
I still can't figure out WHO this product is for. If it's for colleges and students- who can afford such a thing? If Oprah can't easily shout "Everyone in the audience is getting a Kindle DEEEEE EXXXXXX!" Amazon is going to have a tough time selling this to anyone in the consumer space. Unlike something in Apple's world such as a Macbook Pro versus a Macbook where you get an increase in specs for a price increase, the Kindle DX doesn't seem to offer much more than screen real estate. It only does the same things as the current Kindle model but with a bigger screen. $150 for more screen? I'm sure some people will be willing to pay that premium over the already expensive Kindle 2, but I doubt there are many of them.
Not sure if someone has already said this, but what they need is an upgrade program for anyone who bought the Kindle 2 and is like "what the hell!?" Same concept as EVGA's step-up program with video cards and such.
I don't understand why a kindle2 user would be upset that this came out! Well before the kindle 2 came out, EVERYONE knew there would be a second version with a larger screen to come. I think the larger screen is good for those who need it. I still favor the form factor of the smaller kindle 2.
Most people were actually hoping the Kindle 2 would have a larger screen. When it ended up having the same size screen,sure, everyone knew that eventually there would be large screen model. That's not the issue. The problem is that I don't think very many people expected one to be announced this soon. The K2 just went on sale a couple of months ago. If both had been announced at the same time then I'd bet that many would have waited for the DX.
My first thought on the news of a larger, 40% more expensive Kindle, still B&W, no multi-touch, not even touch screen, locked to a single bookstore with millions of books still NOT available in the format: Zzzzzzzz Zzzzzzzz Zzzzzzz.
Yes, sure, people are gonna buy a $500 reader to read a $1.50 newspaper. Uh huh. I though the decade of excess ended.
" locked to a single bookstore with millions of books still NOT available in the format: Zzzzzzzz Zzzzzzzz Zzzzzzz."
That part is completely wrong. The wireless provides direct access to Amazon's store, but you can still use USB to transfer ebooks aquired from other sources to the Kindle, just as with any e-reader.
@Vidikron You misinterpreted what I wrote. Completely. There are many, many publishers and authors that do not publish to any eBook format.Thus it's virtuatally impossible to get those books onto a Kindle. Sure you could buy a paper copy and run it through a scanner, potentially violating copyright laws, but that's not all that convenient.
Then your comment is about e-readers in general and has basically nothing to do with the Kindle specifically. And you are still wrong about the Kindle being locked to a single store.
Vidikron: Check. Mate.
@ Vidkron The entire point of my post relates to the DX's feature to price ratio. You've wonderfully tried to ignore the DX's price as if $500 for a single purpose device was pocket change and not relevant to the discussion. Yes, my point about publishers not publishing in any eBook format obviously affects all eReaders, but the two most popular eReaders, the Sony 505 and "regular" Kindle are not even close to costing $500. You can get the Sony for half that price.
As to the DX not being locked into the Amazon bookstore please tell me what other DRM'd format other than .amz the DX will accept. I know of none. If you want to buy a book for the DX you must go through Amazon. Yes, Sony is similarly locked, but again. It's $250, the DX is nearly $500.
Bottomline, and my original over-arching point, the DX offers the consumer nothing new except a larger screen for a 40% higher price tag . Woo. Hoo. Grandma was so excited by the announcement her dentures fell out.
"You've wonderfully tried to ignore the DX's price as if $500 for a single purpose device was pocket change and not relevant to the discussion. Yes, my point about publishers not publishing in any eBook format obviously affects all eReaders, but the two most popular eReaders, the Sony 505 and "regular" Kindle are not even close to costing $500. You can get the Sony for half that price."
Just give it up. You posted bullshit information and I called you on it. I wasn't ignoring your statement about the price, I just didn't care to comment on it. I just wanted to point out that the Kindle was locked to any one store. But if you want me to comment on the price, sure, I will. Yes, I agree that nearly $500 is too much. For most people the pricing isn't worth the return. If you like think the Sony is the better value, then buy that one. I don't care. I just like e-readers in general and I'd be happy with people buying any of them.
But speaking of the Sony, why are you comparing it to the Kindle DX? You are aware that the big feature of the DX is the screen size, right? The Sony model you are referring to has the same screen size as the Kindle 2 and shows fewer shades of grey. It also doesn't have the convenience of being able to browse and buy books wirelessly. But it is certainly a valid option for an e-reader.
"As to the DX not being locked into the Amazon bookstore please tell me what other DRM'd format other than .amz the DX will accept. I know of none. If you want to buy a book for the DX you must go through Amazon. Yes, Sony is similarly locked, but again. It's $250, the DX is nearly $500."
Again, just give it up. There are plenty of non-DRM'd books too. Plus you can buy books at other sites as well... for example, baen.com. There are a couple of others too, I have them bookmarked at home. Hopefully publishers will eventually give up on the DRM scheme anyway. The music industry eventually gave up on it and I'm sure these guys will after while too.
What's better than an index when trying to find an answer, since you didn't read the chapter? SEARCH!!!! Textbooks on this thing would be awesome! Gonna make a lot of college students work half as hard.... Well... actually they already work half as hard, so maybe half of that...
You really think colleges are going cede the golden text book cash cow to Amazon so easily. Mwahahahah.
I got on the pre-order before the conference was over. I know I might not be in the majority but I have been waiting for this, I think it will be perfect way to keep all my cases organized and textbooks in place for business school, if publishers oblige that is.
I have a Kindle 1.0
I love my Kindle, but I decided that I did not need to upgrade to a K 2 because it did not offer that much more over my K1.
I love the size of the DX screen, but it's price is ridiculous. I only paid $350 for my Lenovo S-10. I am not going to spend nearly 200 dollars more for a reading only device.
Thomas FTW. Seriously, what demographic does the Kindle appeal to anyway? I don't ever see myself buying a Kindle, and I read MANY books. Would rather have a physical book until they bring down the price or make it more functional (multiple books open at the same time, color, faster refresh rate, etc).
"I say good day sir."
"Compare that to the Kindle pricing of $13.99 a month plus $498 for a DX -- hello, $665.88. From a consumer standpoint, that's actually kind of a win, since the Kindle offers much more than just the Times."
And I guess that the fact that from the second year on you just pay $167.88/year is completely irrelevant, right?
by then 3 new kindles will have been released and of course you need to buy the newest one - seriously though, NYTimes is about $270/year (https://www.nytimesathome.com/checkout.php?step=1) for the paper version (not sure where $600 came from), so you are paying $100 less per year for the digital version - that means it'll be 5 years before the hardware is paid off
sorry, that link didn't work, but i used the link on their home page and had it delivered to an nyc zip (LA is around 350/year)
The prices displayed on nytimes.com are for 12 weeks only -- after that the rate doubles. I'm sure the numbers are different depending on where you are, but for me in Chicago it's $617.
yeah, definitely missed that, wow the newspaper sucks
Hopefully Amazon doesn't cave like Apple did when they released the updated iPhone and a bunch of whiners forced a partial refund.
People forget that the original Kindle size is meant primarily for novel/paperback readers and was meant to be a similar size experience for them. And newspapers need to realize that it's not just the medium that must change, but the method.
For me, I would need a larger kindle (like the DX) because my primary reading material is art books, cook books, programming books, photography books, and I used to use gaming books. Most of these are large format and should be color, just like text books. For people who need text books that are not as visual, this device is great. Direct PDF support is good.
What else does it need before I get besides color? Expandability. Enhanced PDF support would be ideal for annotation, zooming, etc. Wireless access.
I’m a college student and I’d like to know why would this be more attractive than me just buying the book; aside from the weight of carrying the book. What makes this better than books to a typical student from elementary school on up to collage
1 Is it sturdy; students throw the bags around can it survive a good fall?
2 Can you resell the DRM TextBook files after you take the class; or can they be transferred to other kindles?
3 What happens if you lose it; do you have to buy all the textbook files over again ?
4 Will the price of the kindle, plus the book files be competitive to just buying the books ?
5 Will it be spill proof?
6 Can I loan out a book file from it to someone else with a kindle like you can normal textbooks ?
7 Can we be sure this wont open up a new monopoly to Amazon with Textbooks if this takes off ?
8 Will there be a color version in the near future sometimes things in some text books have to be in color for them to be understood ?
9 Can you write on the screen and it appear in the books like a way to highlight important notes and info in books.
Nilay is right. You aren't going to recreate the text book experience with this device. After a few weeks of using a text book you tend to be able to flip right to where you need to reference intuitively. Its like you develop skills at using the book. This won't happen with the kindle DX, and bookmarks aren't a reasonable substitute for flipping to the spot you need on the fly.
I think the Kindle is really only good for one thing: Reading standard paragraph based content in a linear fashion. i.e. reading a book cover-to-cover in the traditional sense.
For this reason, as a Kindle 2 owner, I am not upset about the new form-factor. I'd probably be happier with the smaller form-factor either way, but likely would have ended up with the bigger one had they come out at the same time.
Increasing the line size when reading a book linearly doesn't buy you anything; if anything it slows you down. It's easier for your brain to process text quickly when you don't have to concentrate on following an excessively long line. It's the same reason any well designed web site doesn't expand the text to fit your gigantically wide monitor.
Most of the time I crank the text size up on my kindle so I can chunk through entire lines, and have less on the screen to distract me.
Sometimes less is more...
Why did they take away the number keys?! I don't want to have to press another key everytime I type a number.
No matter how many improvements there are, on annoying thing like that means I am not goinf to buy the product.
Never take away a feature form a product!!!
If your wife has a Kindle, you can share each other's books.
Why would a college student by a Kindle for textbooks? $489 is at least a full year or two to payback, given that textbooks are pricey as it is, and they won't drop in price by much (their cost is not driven to current levels by paper and ink costs). And students don't have money anyway. AND they probably just bought a laptop for school - why not just "suffer" and read on that screen instead of on another one?
I'd rather buy a 13" E-ink monitor to plug into a laptop for lower $$$ than buy a Kindle and be tethered to Amazon for anything I wanted to view on it...
Does it play movies so I don't have to read? That's what I'm really after.
Who is this anti-American Thomas guy?
He sounds like some 20 something, knee jerk leftist who thinks ripping on the US makes him fashionable and smart.
He's 40, originally from Ohio, and now lives in Amsterdam (where the Kindle isn't available) as our senior editor. So... you heard wrong.
First of all, how can you never have heard of Thomas Ricker?
Second, "Knee-jerk leftist"??? Really dude?
I wouldn't be surprised if you were the moron who tried to post the Rick Roll link 50 times the other day...
The only way the DX will *really* work for text books is if you had three or four of them and had the ability to open up multiple pages and sections simultaneously and spread them out on the desktop like you do with textbooks now.
I mean really, how are you going to get any work done when you have 3500 pages worth of textbook material for a semester and you can only view one of those pages at a time??? It's an information starvation diet. I suppose you could get the work done, but oh so slowly. Either that, or the student starts photocopying pages out of the the DX in order to have more information available simultaneously, which undermines the whole "paperless" aspect of these things.
I have a Kindle 2 and I find that non-fiction is a pain to read on the device. It can be challenging to navigate backwards to review a previous section and then it can be a bear re-finding the furthest page I have read when I forget to bookmark my place before I start backtracking.
Maybe someone will come up with a different methodology which makes it all go smoothly, but to call these things the iPod for books is a horrible misconception. Music listening is basically linear and non-tangible. Once you cue something up to listen and hit play, the player requires no more interaction and you can navigate successfully with minimal visual cues. iPod portability does nothing to diminish the listening experience (except for the issues of compression for the true audiophile).
ePaper solves the eyestrain problem of reading on a computer screen and the Kindle 2 is great for flying through novels and other sorts of light reading, but as a serious learning tool? I think it poses too many barriers except for those truly gifted individuals with photographic memories who only need to read and review a text but once. That crowd would love these things.
I can't believe Amazon did this. I don't own a Kindle but I would never buy a e-reader without native .pdf support. I can see the pitch forks being held up and crowds of Kindle owners returning their wimpy Kidle 2.
I feel for all the Kindle 2 owners, You have just been royally overlooked.
I'm sure others expressed these thoughts, but I'll put my thoughts out there:
I've been mulling over the debate between a Sony Reader and a Kindle (either 2 or DX) and both fall short of what I want.
* Books in Amazon's Kindle store are typically cheaper then in Sony's. They can also be delivered wirelessly. Point for Amazon.
* Due to the fact that all PDF's have to be shuttled through Amazon's conversion service (even the supposedly PDF-compatible DX), my collection of RPG books from DriveThru would be a hassle. Now the Sony Reader does have software to do it at home and simply upload via USB.
* Sony Reader has touchscreen (the high end one, at least) and Kindle DX has a rotating screen. Cool, but neither have the ability to scribble notes down on the screen or in a blank notepad. I can write sloppily far more effeciently then I can type on that tiny little keyboard.
* The price on both are high, granted. Sony is a bit cheaper (with less features) and I still feel like I could get more out of a cheap notebook / netbook computer.
* Overally, both do somethings great, but until one unit does ALL things great, I'm not sure I'll fork out the money. Saving 2 or 3 bucks per book isn't worth a couple hundred for a gadget that doesn't do everything I want it to (and that's not much).
You do not need to send your PDF's through Amazon's conversion service. You can connect to your PC via USB and copy them over. You can do that now - it's not a new feature.
D.
I think they feel that others (Apple?)are getting ready to come out with their own E-Reader in that size and are trying to get a jump on it.
Think about it - we keep hearing about a 10" screen sized product from Apple coming out.
Where has Apple made most of its money? In products that appeal to both the Mac and PC side of things.
E-Readers are a semi-hot new category with more and more content being created for them daily.
Even the new Kindle was said to have a 'Mac' like look when it first came out.
Except, as we all know, Apple would bring something new to the game...maybe Wi-Fi for browsing and iPod intergration to it as well - but still primarily a e-reader.
And this would integrate easily into the App Store - and open the e-reader platform and e-books to not just the new iBook (or whatever they call it) people - but anyone with a slate like apple device (iPod Touch, iPhone) could read the books - some books are already on the app store.
Maybe all the rumors of a slate like device from apple ranging in this size made the people at Amazon figure they had to run fast and hard with a larger device before something else comes out that might dimish their market share in this category.
Just a thought!
The public doesn't need another Kindle ... it needs kindle software for the devices we already own. I don't understand why Amazon doesn't want my money for books.
Publishers would be my guess. They don't own the rights to the content they sell after all.
I think it's really funny how passionate everyone is about this. If you don't like the idea, move on. It's not for everyone. I have had two of them. I loved the upgrade and have no interest in a larger version. I get three newspapers every day and like just turning it on and getting my Chronicle, the NY Times and the WSJ from wherever I am. I've been traveling this month and have bought and read two books.
Here is my point. It is NOT as good as holding a book, it is NOT as good as holding a newspaper. But I am sitting in Cancun with my 10 ounce device that is packed with a bunch of reading material I would not have if I was getting the old fashioned way.
I'm a convenience freak, can afford the thing and it's subscriptions and love having them in briefcase taking up only 10oz of weight.
Very seldom do I read it in public without someone asking me about it and giving me a "wow" response when they hold it. It's not for everybody for it sure works for me. It has enhanced my mobile lifestyle. (And the 3G part of it is what makes it the best on the market, IMHO.
The column width feature looks interesting. Is there a way to make it do double columns in landscape?
I too would like to see native PDF display in the Kindle 2. Maybe some day.
I'd love to get my daughter a color version with a touchscreen that can animate math textbooks.
If the PDF reader is properly designed, with fast navigation and good annotation and bookmarking, this is going to be a big hit for Amazon. This Kindle is tailored towards the academic/education market, where most reading takes place. I mean, demand for non-science books reduces over the years because of the plethora of alternative sources of information, but not so in the education sector. It will not replace the pile of books you have on your desk while conducting research (for obvious reasons), but it will help you carry all your library of papers/books while away from your desktop. You could do that with a smartphone/netbook, but the experience of reading there is nowhere near as good as in a big screen e-ink device. Couple this with a very good implementation of their online store and I think Amazon will for the first time successfully penetrate the huge education sector with an electronic reader...
When I was in college about 5 years ago I bought about $300-$800 in textbooks every semester, some were used but my university changed textbook versions nearly every year so 3/4 of purchases had be new, and on the average day I'd have 40-120 pounds of books being lugged around.
Just for the weight issue I would have flat out loved the Kindle and when I go back for my Masters I definitely intend to get this device.
I returned my Kindle 2 within 14 days after trying to love it, read it, tote it, note it... in the end it was a combination of not being able to get over the slow speed of page turns (plus distracting refresh black screen) and that my content (certain books, local news) was not available. This is what I told myself as I returned it.
What I really miss is the adverts in my paper copy of the NYT.... I'm stranded in a smaller midwestern town so seeing what's playing, what's on sale, what the real people find beautiful is what I missed in the e-book experiment.
So while the DX seemed to have potential, its not ubiquitous enough for me to bite again. I'm holding out now for Apple to figure this out via the netbook/newton refresh.
For those that ridicule reading on an LCD screen:
I've had a Fujitsu slate for over 4 years now and have read probably 70 to 80 novels on it. It was a lifesaver to relive the boredom while in hotel rooms, awaiting flights and bus/limo rides while working as an airline pilot. Additionaly, carrying a mouse and small keyboard in my bag provided me with all the computing power I needed while on the road.
Yes the battery life was not good (extra battery would provide up to 7 hours) and if you were in a bright area such as outside, it was a little hard on the eyes. But it would read all, I mean ALL ebooks whatever the format assuming the right software was installed. But now I see Amazon has done away with their Microsoft Reader format and gone strictly Kindle so I'll be buying my ebook novels from either Ebooks.com or Ereader.com.
Yup, the Kindle is nice, but I refuse to carry two electronic slates when one will suffice and also provide a lot more productivity.
Danno
How do people use a newspaper or magazine? They skim, they scan, they browse. This cannot be done on a big Kindle because the display updates so slowly. I suspect this version will die if another purpose is not found for it.
" Let's use the New York Times as an example: at-home paper delivery of the Times for a year costs a new subscriber something like $617. Compare that to the Kindle pricing of $13.99 a month plus $498 for a DX -- hello, $665.88."
Humm... electronic "at-home" delivery with an E-Book reader for only 50 bux more?
That actually sounds like a damn good deal to me.
I suspect over time that scanning and browsing habits will adapt to the use of screens. Just as you scan and browse the initial paragraphs of blogs like this one, you will end up doing the same on an e-reader, tablet, PC, etc.
D.
The Kindle is for people that read and read a lot. If you read one newspaper or one book ever 6 months or take 1 course per quarter, this is not for you.
The Kindle 2 has a larger screen which will make reading newspaper articles better. I do not own one yet but I plan to get one.
I just finished my MBA and wished that I had a Kindle. Hell - it would have helped to simply have the notes available on this. I traveled to Chicago every other weekend and had a back pack loaded down. Since I was working full-time, I had my laptop in the bag as well. I occasionally made the trade-off to leave notes or the text book behind.
I read 3 main newspapers and 1 journal through online subscriptions. It is a pain in the ass to read online. I'd prefer to read them on a Kindle. It will be hard to justify paying for the NY Times and the Financial Times since most of the articles can be read for free. The Financial Times allows paying members to read more and to research articles. I am not sure that you get anything more from the NY Times by paying. I certainly do not want something to recycle.
$500 is steep. I'd buy a 2 or 3 year contract. By that time maybe Plastic Logic will have produced a color eReader that can handle notes.
As for highlighting and notes in the margins. Digital formats will win. (1) Once the technology improves, we will have color. (2) Notes as well as text will be searchable (try searching for a sticky or a hand written note in your current text book). Text should already be searchable. (3) You should be able to hide notes. (Another annoying feature with text books. Sometimes the notes and highlights standout so much you do not see the stuff between causing you to miss important yet un-highlighted information).
Anyone not seeing the possibilities here is simply confining themselves to the past. Even though, I am done with school (for now but who knows, maybe I will go back just for technology). I still read a lot and I am tired of printing because my eyes get tired of the bright LCDs. I would like to never again print a PDF doc just to read. I normally have 3 books at any given time in my bag or car. This will save my back and help reduce the clutter of books.
The media-price myth rears its ugly head again.
Know how much it costs to manufacture a $15 CD or a $30 DVD?
About 25 cents.
A book actually doesn't cost that much to make and ship because of efficiencies of scale (this is why we invented movable type - btw).
What you're paying for is the *content*, not the container. Which is why ebooks and downloadable movies and TV shows keep running into a wall. People think 'well, if I download it, it should be almost free since they didn't have to print a book or press a disk' while the content providers think 'If they'd pay $29.99 for this movie as a disk, they should be ok with $24.99 for a download'.
As for the Kindle - since it's a US only product, the rest of the world will yawn and move on, thanks.
"On the other hand, after a few months with the Kindle, I've basically given up on it -- it's just not as good as a real book, and that makes me wonder if students are really going to take to the DX when it hits colleges and universities."
Nilay,
If you're wondering whether there's a difference between using an electronic device while reading for leisure and reading for school. There is a huge difference. People are not going to use something that they aren't comfortable with for reading novels. But when it comes to 5-7 pound textbooks especially if you have 3 or 4 to lug around, I know I would gladly carry an electronic device around with the text on it.
I'm a fan of ebook technology and I love concept of carrying a whole library in a small device. Just as I am now starting to digitize my whole movie collection to go with my already huge digitized music collection that has made a need for small devices to carry such media. I already have tons of books in pdf format so why not have a device that can store and show this format?A bigger screen is needed for those who use pdf technology. But here is one serious flaw with this technology. The bookmarks and navigation needs to be a lot faster. We are now living in a world with time measured in milliseconds everyday and while a simple browsing of a magazine and newspaper page by page might be acceptable can you really imagine sitting in class with a kindle dx and the professor says, "class turn to page 239 on your kindle"? How long would that take? "Now class look in your index for the answer to question 45". Somebody should have timed a real world example of this. Better yet how about an open book test with the kindle dx. Wouldn't happen. I hope people realize that when a true magazine subscription service like Zinio and comic publishing giants like marvel and Dc and other independents jump on the bandwagon and venture on either amazon's kindle or sony's ereader will forever change that devices future and shoot it to the top(hint). Of course apple could do this and make everyone praise their name again.