We've been wondering when we'd see the next
Laptop Hunters ad from Microsoft, but it looks like the company's throwing a change-up: its latest 30-second spot features Wes Moss, Certified Financial Planner, explaining that iTunes "costs a lot" while Zune Pass "costs a little." The argument, of course, is that at a buck a song (or
more), filling up your iPod costs way more than the $15 / month cost of the Zune subscription service, but we've got a feeling that Wes just won't convince as many people as Lauren and Giampaulo -- while we certainly think Zune Pass is a great deal, especially with the
10 free tracks a month now included, most people have plenty of music from all kinds of sources already, and an additional monthly bill in the current economy doesn't seem all too appealing. Plus, well, this argument has never really worked for services like Yahoo and Rhapsody in the past, so we're not sure it's going to work now. But that's just us -- we're sure you've got your own opinions, so check out the vid after the break and sound off.
P.S. If Wes looks familiar it's because
he was a contestant on Donald Trump's The Apprentice. He was fired.
[Via
Ars Technica; thanks Travis and
Michael S.]
posted May 11th 2009 6:58PM
Amen. As a former DJ in my college days, I have over about 1500 CDs. They're all ripped onto a Drobo now, and synced to iPods and my iPhone. I've spent a little money on iTunes, but my 120GB iPod is full, and it didn't cost me $30,000.
The difference is, because I'm diligent about backups, 10 years from now, I'll still have those 15,000 songs. Zune Pass would give me those songs as well, assuming they're still in business, for a little under $2000. What happens if, 3 years from now, Microsoft decides the music business is not for them? Everyone with a ZunePass wuold have spent hundreds of dollars on... nothing. Even back in the day when iTunes was DRM'd to death, I'd still have the benefit of owning the rights to play that DRM'd track forever. Now, it's all non-DRM.
I prefer to have my media, even if the company that sold me that media goes away.
@Epsilon-Not
Oh, I've heard of Bittorrent. I use that to help me conserve bandwidth when I distribute my family vacation pictures and home movies not containing any copyrighted works!
the music industry will out source sarcastic assholes to go on blogs and say things no one cares about
@Isaac If the target audience can't rip a cd, what else can't they do? Operate a mouse. Remember to switch on the machine. Plug in their music player.
You get the idea.
@ Trevor, $15/month for unlimited music? or $15 per CD, which contains 12 songs, maybe 4 of which i actually like from that artist... gee im having a hard time figuring out which is the better deal..
@Jimmy
No, they do not have nothing. They got the enjoyment out of that music. I've found there's plenty of music that I enjoy listening to, but would never pay for. (I like to call it "Electronic" music.) With a Zune Pass I have access to all of that, I can explore artists without risking buying a lemon, and if I find anything I really like, I can get it with free credits or still buy it. Like somebody else said, if you use the credits, the music you lose when the subscription expires effectively costs $2 a month. $2 a month to be able to listen to anything, to explore music freely? Sounds like a great deal.
People still use Limewire. Yes, they are idiots, but they are still people.
Okay, maybe 1/3rd of a person...
@ the DJ guy
1. you can rip cd's to a zune as well, its not like apple has patented CD rips
2. you will get to keep your CD rips forever.
3. with a zune pass, you get to keep 10 songs a month forever, which means at 1.29 a song, you're only paying $2 a month extra
4. if your whole zune if full from your CDs, you're not forced to buy a pass. you can use a zune without a pass.
5. if you still want a few songs a month from the marketplace, you can buy them indivisualy, at the same price as itunes
6. so having a zune is like having itunes PLUS the chance at the zune suscription.
These ads are hilarious! Well, the general public is dumb enough to be "wow'd" by them so...I guess microsoft is on to something. Stupid enough to fall for the rest of the laptop hunter ads....stupid enough to fall for this.
hey, people are stupid enough to buy macs too. what can you do?
Just to comment @fish, buying a product that you enjoy and use isn't stupid. I bought a MacBook in late 2007, and couldn't be happier with it. Am I stupid for buying something that I love and use every day?
If the argument for Mac stupidity is cost, then guess what: I don't care. I have enough money to buy one. I'm really not worried about any money that I could have potentially saved. I don't. All I care about is that I purchased a product that I enjoy and feel is worth the money.
In summation, buying a product you like for price you feel is worth it is: not stupid. Bitching about other people buying what they like for the price that they feel is worth it is: very stupid.
Holy shit, Alex, was it really worth it to type all that? I am sure Fish doesn't give the slightest crap.
If he didn't someone else would have, and chances are, it would've been half as well-written.
funny shit, I agree though. I Have PCs and a few macs and I do not feel I am stupid for purchasing them.
I love how people jump to criticize others that do not share their opinions. I guess we should ll conform to the masses....
As for the ad, they said it all. This idea has not worked in the past for companies that have tried it and it probably wont now, but leave it to MS to use an accountant to portray their product. funny.
Stupid like a fox!
People are stupid enough to save money? Seriously, your post is stupid.
this ad is wayy better than those laptop hunter ads, and better than mac v pc ads. i just love infographics, reminds me of stranger than fiction
William said: "I guess we should ll conform to the masses"
Everyone else arguing about Mac buyers being stupid: Do remember that if we were to conform to the "masses", we wouldn't have iPods/Zunes, we wouldn't have computers, we wouldn't have toilets, we wouldn't necessarily even have running water in our homes (if we even have a home). Just be happy that we have enough freedom, time, and money to even think about debating things like this.
And as many people have said: Each to his own.
Oh, and the $30000 thing? My iPod's mainly filled with CD music, and a significant chunk of the rest is from free podcasts. I'd say that a CD costs the same whether you're intending to load it onto an iPod or a Zune. And free podcasts are, well, free!
There are always people stupid enough to pay more money for inferior Apple products. Everything that Apple has put into their ipods was already done by other companies. I'm still waiting for Apple to include radio support in their lineup like the sansa series has been doing for years.
Fish's comment was extremely witty and insightful. I'm surprised you don't see the irony in what he said.
Put it this way: If they had the Zune/Zune Pass here in Australia, I'd be using both. But they don't. So you're out of luck Microsoft. And I like the Zunes too... they fit my needs better than my Nano, but Apple has a product here and you don't.
Wait a few months.
So it's still about money. What about taste?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upzKj-1HaKw
So I mean, what the hell's stopping me from buying their fucking zune pass and putting the music on my iPod?
Also, with their 14 day free trial what the fuck is stopping me from downloading all the fucking songs they offer in their free trial, or even during a 1 month subscription? Fuckin losers, there's probably a limit to how much you can download.
Numnut! What do you think the whole point is? They lock your songs to your zune and nothing else can play them.
@Kaitou KID:
Uh no, Microsoft isn't that dumb. This is a subscription service, not a buffet:
"As of November 2008, the Zune Pass allows its users to keep any 10 songs per month. In other words, if you wanted 30,000 songs for keeps, just like the iTunes Store, you would have to wait 250 years. The cost would be a whopping $45,000, however."
http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/05/microsofts-next-apple-price-attack-zune-pass-vs-itunes.ars
That's from 1996. The Zune... well, have you ever even used one? They're pretty nice. Custom background images, the interface looks great, etc.
Seriously, custom background images. Why has Apple not done this yet?
They tried this exact argument years ago. How'd that work out for them?
They should have just asked Real Networks and Yahoo. Most people want to own their music, I think that's pretty well proven by now.
Well, I thought they had stopped making Zunes, so I guess it has done pretty horrible. I'm not making fun either - It's been like 2 years since I saw someone with a zune.
@David Hildreth: Well with the Zune Pass, you do get to at least KEEP 10 songs for free every month. So honestly, the Zune Pass has an actual value of maybe $4.99 a month if you consider 10 songs are roughly a dollar each. That's what makes it different.
He's got a good point there.
Except that there is other content besides music, and much of it is free (or time-shifted and paid for): Video and Audio podcasts, DVR'd shows transferred from a TiVo, as well as other pre-existing DVD/CD-rips. Virtually no one fills a (harddrive-based) iPod with just iTunes Store content.
This is the same guy that sold me a subprime mortgage.
Wait, Microsoft is still selling Zunes? Hmm.
Yes, except that you buy music with iTunes as opposed to renting music with the Zune pass.
$14.99 /month * infinity months = $infinity.
Also, it appears Microsoft has "forgotten" that you can use that iPod capacity for:
- Files (as a USB HDD)
- Podcasts/Video Podcasts (often free)
- Movies, TV Shows (pretty expensive on the iTMS, but eat capacity)
I'm sure it was an innocent oversight. It's not like they're trying to bash Apple for not copying their failing business model or anything.
KarlW, that would be correct... except that Zune Pass lets you keep 10 tracks per month.
So for $15, you can rent unlimited amounts of music, and keep $10.
So in reality, you are paying $10 for 10 songs, and $5 a month to rent the music.
Also, Zunes have a nifty little feature called "Videos" yeah, they also have "Podcasts", so your argument really doesn't work there.
I'm sure Zunes also have these features. My point was not to compare the features, but to show how ridiculous Microsoft's calculation is.
I mean, it's obviously ridiculous, but I got stirred by the futile debate and felt like adding my voice to the hecklers.
William,
Please elucidate. You can "Keep" 10 songs a month. Cool.
BUT what happens if you cancel the subscription? Do you still keep them? What happens if you DON'T wanna spend $15 dollars a month?
Firstly lets end this shit here. If you spend 15 bucks a month on iTunes you get to keep 15 songs. If you pay 15 bucks to M$ you get to keep 10. Math doesn't seem to add up there.
Secondly PLAY FOR SURE. That was a great way to go M$, well done really shafted, NOT ONLY YOUR CUSTOMERS, but also your OEM suppliers. Fantastic work!!! And now you are using USED CAR SALESMEN techniques to sell the ZUNE.
WAY. TO. GO.
(not)
Good looking guy, nice music, logical point.
I'd say they've come a long way since scarf girl.
BrattyUK, you keep the 10 songs whether or not you pay the monthly fee. 10 songs = $10. Therefore there is $4.99 left. The $4.99 goes to renting music. So if you wanted to keep 10,000 songs on your zune for the rest of your life you would only be paying $5000-$6000, which is still cheaper than apple's $10,000.
@KarlW
I no longer care about price. Tell me how you figured out the secret to immortality.
too bad the zune sucks.
and your reason for that argument is?
I have 4 ipods, and 2 zunes. The only music players I use every day are my Zunes. They are superior in just about every way, and I can fill both players with completely different playlists all from one Zunepass account. The Zune software is incredible, and puts iTunes to shame.
If you tried Zune for a month, you'd delete your comment.
But Engadget doesn't let you delete comments.
You mean the Zune Zucks... lol
but anyways..
I don't know how I feel about subscription music. It seems like you'd spend more money over time on a subscription because your paying $15 a month. When if you purchased your music, one month you could only spend $5 on music. I don't know it's a really hard argument and I'm still stumped on it. Right now I prefer to purchase my music track by track unless I enjoy an entire album.
@ mark
That is how Netflix/Blockbuster have tried to survive. The M$ theory for the ZunePass is, "Yea, you'll probably use this for a couple weeks, maybe a month, but then not bother to get anything new. But that doesn't mean you'll cancel your subscription, right?"
I don't want to pay $15 a month at the moment, but if I did you could bet I'd be downloading as much music as I possibly could. Zune Pass is not for everyone. It's like a buffet. If you are only going to eat a small meal, then get the small meal and it makes you satisfied. But if you're going to go ahead and get the buffet then by all means eat as much as you possibly can. Try new things. Go crazy. You're paying for it anyway.
This would be a really valid point, if only it came from someone NOT in the business of boning people on their investments in DRM schemes.
I think we've seen ads like this in the past from Yahoo! and Napster and such. I think they'd get a wider audience if it wasn't as difficult to get subscription music onto a player, but people seem to have an attachment to "owning" music, even when they only own a non-physical copy.