AT&T issues official statement on SlingPlayer's 3G blackout for iPhone

Sweating bullets over network saturation, are we? AT&T's obviously taking a good helping of heat today over Sling's rock-and-a-hard-place decision to remove 3G streaming capability from its SlingPlayer Mobile build for the iPhone -- a decision that gets at the very heart of several hot-button issues plaguing AT&T and Apple alike -- and the carrier understandably felt the need to release an official statement to address the situation. Unfortunately, it prompts as many questions as it offers answers. It starts off simply enough, stating that apps like SlingPlayer could create congestion on the network that denies services to others -- and while a truly trivial number of users own Slingboxes, we understand what they're getting at; no amount of tweaking or fudging of a modern HSPA network can withstand the traffic onslaught generated by wildly popular streaming video services.

Here's where we start to lose our way, though. AT&T cites a portion of its wireless terms and conditions -- "Applications like this, which redirect a TV signal to a personal computer, are specifically prohibited under our terms of service" -- and says that it considers "smartphones like the iPhone to be personal computers in that they have the same hardware and software attributes as PCs." Sure, guys, but a RAZR shares 85 percent of its DNA with a PC and an iPhone shares 87 percent, so we're splitting hairs here -- never mind the fact that you've inexplicably labeled the S60-powered Nokia 6650 (which can run SlingPlayer, by the by) a dumbphone simply because it lacks a QWERTY keyboard. Furthermore, AT&T specifically points out that it doesn't restrict users from downloading streaming videos, which is the very problem SlingPlayer generates -- the upload from the user's TV on the far end is the ISP's concern, not AT&T's, and we figure that the network pressure generated by the download is roughly equivalent to watching a whole bunch of YouTube videos. It doesn't add up.

Next, the carrier uses the opportunity to pimp its extensive WiFi network and says that you're welcome to use SlingPlayer there; that's all well and good, and yes, it's cool that AT&T gives iPhone users free access to the hotspots, but it's no substitute for the mobility of streaming Sling over the WWAN, which works really freaking well -- just ask countless BlackBerry, S60, WinMo, and Palm users who are using SlingPlayer as you read this. The only material difference is that they can't be touched -- not as easily, at least, as iPhone users who are bound to the whim of Apple's singular, all-powerful clearinghouse.

Look, AT&T, just tell it like it is: you're saying your 3G network would fold like a cheap suit if these apps took off. Thing is, it already has in some places -- trust us, we've experienced it firsthand -- so let's make sure the blame gets distributed appropriately here.

Follow the break for AT&T's full statement.

"Slingbox, which would use large amounts of wireless network capacity, could create congestion and potentially prevent other customers from using the network. The application does not run on our 3G wireless network. Applications like this, which redirect a TV signal to a personal computer, are specifically prohibited under our terms of service. We consider smartphones like the iPhone to be personal computers in that they have the same hardware and software attributes as PCs.

That said, we don't restrict users from going to a Web site that lets them view videos. But what our terms and conditions prohibit is the transferring, or slinging, of a TV signal to their personal computer or smartphone.

The Slingbox application for the iPhone runs on WiFi. That's good news for AT&T's iPhone 3G customers, who get free WiFi access at our 20,000 owned and operated hot spots in the U.S., including Starbucks, McDonalds, Barnes & Noble, hotels, and airports. AT&T is the industry leader in WiFi."

[KEROLiUKAS @ May 12th 2009 7:26PM]

AT & T fails hard.

[Templarian @ May 12th 2009 8:16PM]

@AndrewNoNumbers, I'm going to +1 you for the fact I think that means Dave Matthews Band

[Templarian @ May 12th 2009 8:17PM]

@Engadget redo your comment system (watch this fail).

[TheSuburbanWhiteBoy @ May 12th 2009 8:24PM]

AT&T is starting to sound like Verizon crippling phones. This is terrible news for U.S. Iphone users.

[AndrewNoNumbers @ May 12th 2009 8:39PM]

Yay! PowerUp!

[MegaBite @ May 13th 2009 12:02AM]

AT&T should not make promises that they cannot keep. All ISP's whould be impartial to what type of traffic their network has to deal with, also. If their network cannot keep good download speeds, maybe they should lower their prices.

[Jon @ May 13th 2009 12:49AM]

So let's get this straight...AT&T just came right out and told us that their network is a POS. Why are we paying full price for it then??

If they are going to tell us their data network is only good for certain things, then why can't we tell them that our money is only good for certain things???

Let us out of our contacts for lying to us and telling us our data plans are unlimited!!

I am calling ATT tomorrow to cancel my contract. I will be polite to the person on the phone since it's obviously not their fault, but NO will not be an acceptable answer. I hope sprint has a good deal going for new customers, I'll be needing a new phone soon!

[d889 @ May 13th 2009 1:53AM]

lol wifi is such garbage

if you are in a wifi spot chances are you are either at your house or your buddies spot, in which case a real computer be it a laptop or a desktop will be around to do what you need.

do you fucking really have to sit in starbucks like a stupid ass hipster just to get wifi? what a fucking joke, get real and realize that you have a PHONE, its supposed to do anything everywhere, and god damn i am glad every day i look at my EV symbol on my verizon phone and always have bars to do what i want.

the sooner people realize wifi is trivial on a device thats supposed to be used on the street, the sooner they will realize that network coverage and usage is the real deal.

[johnnynoknow @ May 13th 2009 2:13AM]

i currently have a 3G iPhone and have become quite addicted to it. But I am getting more and more pissed off with the decisions AT&T and Apple are making. it's not that i would use MMS (i would definitely use copy & paste) and even though that stuff is coming out along with push notifications on apps (finally!), it's that I'm more upset with their app approvals and generally closed structure.

I'll admit, I'm a windows fan and looking forward to Windows 7 (i'm using the RC now), but when the first gen ipod nano came out, i was all over it. likewise, when i heard 3G was coming to the iPhone, i was in line at 5 am to get one. I was considering a macbook, but it's just a bit out of my pricerange. So I like certain things about Apple and Microsoft.

With the latest issues with the 3G iPhone, i'm looking forward to the release of the Pre and now apparently the Zune HD might be a phone?? i'd switch to either of those and pay the ETF to AT&T in a heartbeat if they're more open than the iPhone. I like the smoothness of the iPhone, but music is music and video is video. however flashy it looks on a specific device is not the issue as it's the same content (my opinion). if the Zune HD has a good browser, capacitive touch and decent apps, i'd def switch to that, and otherwise the Pre if it lives up to the hype.

my 2 cents.

[johnnynoknow @ May 13th 2009 2:27AM]

yeah, just read more on engadget and found out those twitter updates about the ZuneHD were bogus. my bad. ignore that info from my last post. i think i'll go with the Pre then.... if it lives up to the hype.

[cg200313 @ May 14th 2009 2:37PM]

EPIC FAIL

[Rollins @ May 12th 2009 7:27PM]

It looks like AT&T has some serious infrastructure problems. I wonder how they're going to handle 4G.

[murmermer @ May 12th 2009 7:46PM]

the idea of implementing a 4g network is to keep this from happening...

[nerdtalker @ May 12th 2009 7:58PM]

Ya think? I love how AT&T openly admits that its 3G network isn't up to snuff at delivering anything remotely close to what it's marketed as being able to deliver.

AT&T fails it hard.

I'll say it again; AT&T is the biggest reason myself and many other people will never get an iPhone.

[AndrewNoNumbers @ May 12th 2009 8:03PM]

Forget 4G, let's hurry up and get some DMB.

[ThreeDee912 @ May 12th 2009 8:40PM]

I was just thinking...

The iPhone gained about 20% of the smartphone market share in one year.
Scroll down: http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/06/live-from-apples-iphone-press-conference/
Think about that. AT&T basically just got a 20% market share increase in less than a year. Think about dealing with the flood of people using an extremely data-intensive device.

It's not like AT&T was unaware of what would happen:
http://www.engadget.com/2007/06/28/atandt-customers-seeing-sudden-boost-in-edge-speeds/

What would have happened if the iPhone debuted on another network? Would Verizon, Sprint, or T-Mobile's network infrastructure be able to handle it?

If the Pre gets as popular as the iPhone, it will be interesting to see what will happen to Sprint's CDMA/EV-DO network...

[Michael @ May 12th 2009 8:41PM]

I work at att unfortunates with dsl. infrastructure does suck. 70% of the crap we deal with would be solved if the company would fix the crappy network....don't count on that anytime soon. we love to blame everyone else instead of fixing our crap.

[jimmy @ May 13th 2009 1:16AM]

AT&T is in over their heads on this one. I smell lawsuit... I'm a big lover of Slinging. I had a Treo with Sling, and an old iPaq that had WinMo Slinging. To deny 3G slinging to just one phone, and not all of them, is obviously biased, and possibly anti-competitive.
I can understand that there are more iPhones out there (which means potentially more Slingers) than any other phone. even more than many phones combined. But that isn't the point. To cripple one phone because it's popular and may cause more traffic is unconscionable. You agreed to carry the iPhone, AT&T. It became the most popular phone on the planet. Deal with it like a grown-up.

Looks like another reason to Jailbreak, to get that program that will use the 3G and spoof the phoe to think it's WiFi.

[Kevlar @ May 13th 2009 8:23PM]

@jimmy:

Yep. I'm on Rogers in Canada, and I'm not even allowed Skype.

So here's the deal: I jailbroke my phone. Installed Skype. For Free. I would have gladly supported both developers if I could have, but apparently my colourful Canadian bills aren't good enough. SlingPlayer is available in Canada, and as soon as they get their heads out of their asses and realize that AT&T isn't the only network on the planet, I'll support them too.

Then, I installed voipover3G, the MobileSubstrate library that makes certain apps think they're on WiFi.

Finally, I'm going to stream my content, and make calls using Skype from anywhere there is 3G.

Eff you Rogers. Eff you AT&T. It's my hardware. I'm paying for your service. I'm going to damn well use it how I please.
If that means that other customers may have issues, that's your freaking problem.

[Yankees368 @ May 12th 2009 7:28PM]

........HA! AT&T ftl

[esilver @ May 13th 2009 6:11PM]

Think a petition, or 1000s of angry emails/phone calls would cause them to change their minds? Or would it just confirm for them that their system can't handle the load?
Plus, do you think enough people would get slingboxes to actually cause problems to their system? Or they're just freaking out.

What can we do to get the Slingbox 3G privilages?

[oghowie @ May 12th 2009 7:30PM]

I'm pretty sure the AT&T network couldn't handle it especially with a new iPhone coming out. Their 3G network is just too sad.

[digitalh @ May 12th 2009 10:07PM]

I skipped upgrading my gen 1 iPhone for this reason: I simply didn't believe the 3G hype. I will only upgrade to gen 3 in June as my battery life has gotten pretty bad. AT&T deserves some serious class action action for their 3G hoopla.

[sweet greggo @ May 12th 2009 11:24PM]

So the only reason you are having to buy another phone is because your battery doesn't hold a charge anymore?

Apple wins.

[Dillinger @ May 13th 2009 12:27PM]

@sweet greggo Yes just like every other battery in the known world, after a couple years of daily charging will start to hold less of a charge. But let me guess you have had your winmob phone for OVER 9000 years and it still holds a 125% Charge?

[From My Cube @ May 13th 2009 12:42PM]

@ Dillinger


no he takes his battery off and buys a new one...buy a new battery is much cheaper than buying a new phone

[Leindurstit @ May 12th 2009 7:31PM]

Ahahah. They called the iPhone a Smartphone. That's the best part.

[Tom @ May 12th 2009 7:36PM]

Ok, I'll bite. Whats wrong with AT&T calling the iPhone a smartphone? I'm sure your reply will rank right up there with everyone always commenting on the (inaccurate) one button mouse, or whatever misinformed Apple stereotype you feel the need to rehash.

[RioRyan @ May 12th 2009 7:41PM]

As, Wikipedia tells it, "There is no industry standard definition of a smartphone."
But I'd at least like to think that a smartphone would be an open platform, and the iPhone isn't exactly an open platform. Between the cost of the SDK and the restrictions of the app store, I wouldn't really call that open.

[Kamokazi @ May 12th 2009 7:51PM]

I'm a rabid WinMo fanboy who hates Apple, the iPhone, and Blackberries.*

But I would consider them all smartphones. /shrug

I still like to call WinMo devices Pocket PCs though :-)

*-Well, I'm more just a guy who personally prefers WinMo and has nothing wrong with the other platforms, I just get annoyed at all the 'me too's that grab an iPhone or BB and really have no conception of what they can do, they just know they are 'cool'

[johann @ May 12th 2009 7:52PM]

haha yay wikipedia!

[AndrewNoNumbers @ May 12th 2009 8:04PM]

The iPhone's just a supercharged featurephone. It just pretends to look smart.

[Templarian @ May 12th 2009 8:06PM]

To add to what RioRyan said, I would have to say a device has to be able to do more than one thing at a time to be a "smartphone". But with that rumor of an increased processor and all the criticism they may be finding a way to fix this (for the new device, the old ones are probably stuck with 1 app at a time).

(I know it's over used but you asked).

[Epsilon-Not @ May 12th 2009 8:47PM]

My definition of a smartphone is "A device that runs a PDA OS and makes phone calls", with a PDA OS being Palm OS or Windows Mobile... Er, my definition may be a little out of date.

I wouldn't define multitasking as a key component, as that means all the Palm OS Treos weren't smartphones, which seems odd.

I do admit, in the days when I used a separate PDA I had a Samsung flip phone that could download apps from VZW's BREW-based "Get it now!", is that a smartphone if apps are the deciding factor, and a closed system is allowed?

[Jon Graft @ May 12th 2009 9:40PM]

@ Kamokazi

One of the best replies I've seen on Engadget. Everyone should model their replies based on yours...this place is extremely too immature.

[KarlW @ May 12th 2009 11:16PM]

@Templarian

Multitasking is important, and Apple have said that they tested 'true' multi-tasking and found it an unacceptable load on battery life. They're not leaving it out to screw you around - they know its a demanded feature and want to deliver it. The issue is that it's not a practical solution with the complexity of the iPhone's platform and complexity of apps (I'm talking about platform-level complexity: Cocoa is a pretty demanding API). However, nobody has tried the push notification function yet: whilst it won't fill all the holes of the lack of multitasking, it's a definite addition to the platform and will help many use-cases.

As for a general definition of a smartphone, I would say they have to have:

Display: At least a 2.8" diagonal, 16-bit colour screen
Input:
- At least one from: capitative touch screen, resistive touch screen, joystiq, trackball
- At least one from: physical keyboard, software keyboard (number pad does not count as keyboard)
Software:
- A browser capable of displaying HTML 4.01 pages, either bundled or available as a download
- An email client compatible with POP3 and IMAP accounts and HTML emails
- 3rd party application support
Storage:
- At least 4Gb user storage, including external memory cards
Network Support:
- At least EDGE or equivalent
- 802.11g WiFi or better
- Bluetooth 2.0+EDR or better

[neodorian @ May 12th 2009 7:33PM]

I don't buy it. ATT keeps talking about how kickass their network is but the eternally-lambasted Sprint handles Orb streaming my TV to my Touch Pro just fine. They have no problem with me using it this way and it works great. Doesn't even cost me anything other than the $15 I pay for unlimited 3G data every month. If ATT is such a data powerhouse why can't they handle some low bandwidth video streaming? All those NSA wiretaps hogging your bandwidth?

[GroovDude @ May 12th 2009 8:11PM]

SPRINT FTW! I can care less what other people say, my sprint was able to stream a high quality YouTube video from either my native client or the YouTube IE Mod 100% over the iPhone that delivers 50% over their 3G. My friend even get's envious the fact that I'm able to record and watch my shows on my phone, when his can't.

$99 for unlimited voice/network access. Best deal eva!

[Frankenstein Black @ May 12th 2009 11:01PM]

Hum! Funny how all of this closed/controlled App business started when the fruit dudes showed up to the 3G partae. There are literally a couple million devices available (win, simb, palm, etc.) that can and have been slinging on the 3G pipes for years. I say the buzz kill lies squarely on the fruit dudes and their closed/controlled App crap!!

-------
Currently SLINGING OVER 3G ON MY HTC FUZE!!!

[Frankenstein Black @ May 12th 2009 11:04PM]

Exactly! Funny how all of this closed/controlled App business started when the fruit dudes showed up to the 3G partae. There are literally a couple million devices available (win, simb, palm, etc.) that can and have been slinging on the 3G pipes for years. I say the buzz kill lies squarely on the fruit dudes and their closed/controlled App crap!!

-------
Currently SLINGING OVER 3G ON AN HTC FUZE!!!

[Aaron @ May 13th 2009 12:21AM]

Nice double post.

[u_evan @ May 12th 2009 7:34PM]

needs more Frosting. I can still see the BS underneath

[Teh Lup @ May 12th 2009 7:35PM]

This is by far the longest non-redirected post I have ever seen on Engadget...
And I'm not surprised its for Iphone nut hugging.

[Rollins @ May 12th 2009 7:42PM]

This post is for iPhone nut-hugging? Huh. I thought it was attacking AT&T's idiotic response to the SlingPlayer controversy.

I guess I can't read. I'll go back to hugging the iPhone's nuts now.

[Dan "the Man" @ May 12th 2009 7:35PM]

The world needs to stomp a mud hole in AT&T's pooper.

[Red_Z @ May 12th 2009 7:37PM]

Very disappointing and very inconsistent with previous practice. 2 data points:

1) I ran Sling Player mobile on my 3G Blackjack nearly THREE YEARS AGO on AT&T. It worked fine. As far as I know you can still do this over any Windows Mobile 3G phone with SlingPlayer mobile today.

2) Orb Live does exactly this on the iphone today over 3G. I've been using this since it was released last year. Interesting thing is that Orb first launched with no 3G support, but added 3G support within 1 week after launch if I remember correctly.

Why is it ok for Orb but not for Sling?
Dave

[Jeremy @ May 12th 2009 10:33PM]

This comment is better than the entire story. Bottom line is that AT&T is scared of crashing hard if the SlingPlayer were allowed to be used on 3G. The reason it's ok for ORB is because it isn't anywhere near as popular as SlingPlayer. I mean they even sell SP's at BestBuy! It's a little sad to me to see a carrier have exclusivity for a phone and then cripple certain apps because they can't handle the bandwidth that's has grown out of the demand for the phone they and only they can sell.

There is a limit to how much money Apple can make on the iPhone while it's tethered (ha, no pun intended) to AT&T. There is a reason Sprint is hemorrhaging customers every quarter while other carriers gain them. They are not making people happy. AT&T is starting down a very dangerous path that could see a mass exodus of people when their exclusivity is gone.

[D Tas @ May 12th 2009 7:41PM]

See AT&T, the problem is that the majority of people who KNOW what a slingbox is also see through your BS corporate spin and are also aware of soooo many other devices ALREADY on your weakass 3G network using a sling app. Instead of building up your infrastructure BEFORE the people come, you are sitting on the cash. And bad publicity like this, SXSW, etc is only going to continue to dogpile on you. AT&T Wireless, to Cingular, and back... you truly have not changed your spots.

[ptrader @ May 12th 2009 7:40PM]

Things I never understood...iPhone users get free WiFi at AT&T hotspots, but no one else.

Now it's WinMo (and others) get to Sling over 3G but iPhone gets crippled.

Huh, so much for network equality.

[required @ May 12th 2009 9:08PM]

I'm pretty certain that if you use them as your service provider (dsl) you get free access at their hotspots for any of your gadgets, psp, notebook, iptouch, etc.