There's been no direct confirmation just yet, but
Fortune has it that Palm's hotly anticipated
Pre actually syncs with iTunes. Yeah,
iTunes. According to the report, the Pre works "seamlessly" with iTunes on a Mac, with the only notable limitation being that it can't handle older
DRM-laced files from the sad, sad days of our past. Even wilder, we're told that the iTunes Store "treats the Pre just as it would an iPod or an iPhone" save for the aforesaid exception, which leads us to wonder how Apple will react. There's little doubt that this factoid sweetens the Pre value proposition for diligent Mac users, but is this functionality kosher with the software's creator? We already saw Tim Cook glance sternly at Palm while uttering that if anyone else "
ripped off its intellectual property, it would go after them," and we highly doubt he plans on backing down if push comes to shove. If true, this could definitely trigger an interesting chain of events -- we'll know
soon enough, now won't we?
[Via
TUAW]
posted May 28th 2009 10:01AM
RELEASE THE HOUNDS!
I jest, of course.
Nooooooooooooooo!
agavagahrhazhkghskfhkfdkdjkyth;opfdggsvbnnmdbbd
And the Apple fanboys are enraged!
Huh? Shouldn't the Apple Haters be outraged? They're the ones who are always complaining that iTunes is such a piece of shite. Now because of this, Apple will get even more market share with Sprint users. They will start browsing the App Store and wonder why it is they don't have access to the 40,000 apps available. Perhaps they will compensate by buying an iPod touch.
This is a Win/Win situation for Apple.
I'd call myself something of an Apple fanboy (though even if I had AT&T or T-Mobe I wouldn't get an iPhone) and I'm ecstatic about this news! I can use my new Palm Pre w/ my Macbook nearly flawlessly!
Hmm no, that makes me happy that it will work actually.
Or confused, its bad it syncs with itunes as it takes iphone market/its good it syncs with mac giving more market for macs.
Its bad, good, bad, good, bad, goooood, baaaaaad, good, bad, good, bad, good.....
Take cover, imminent headexplosions coming up
Oops, the comments below illustrate my point. The Apple Haters are already moaning about how much they hate iTunes, but this is because they understand that iTunes is a gateway drug for the Mac.
Yeah, I don't get this either - why would anyone who uses iTunes be "enraged" by this news? Surely those users are doing a little dance instead and hoping that Apple doesn't do something to nix what is otherwise useful functionality.
I'm not. Pretty sweet actually.
i like apple and i like the idea of other media devices working with itunes,
more competition will lead to better devices at lower prices,
a win for all,
especially for apple and its itunes store
iTunes is not a gateway drug to the mac. If anything, they'd see how painfully slow and crappy iTunes runs on Windows.
Am I mistaken, but in the early days of itunes and mp3 players, weren't you able to sync any mp3 player in itunes? I seem to recall using itunes when I had a 64mb player. Not surprising they removed this functionality, but I'm pretty sure it was there at some point. I really hate that you can't sync other players now. But I also hate the fact that since i own a mac, i can't even consider getting a zune, which i actually would've at some point.
@OP
It's comments like yours that make me just want to do a facepalm.
/Facepalm
William - Uh, no you idiot. Pre syncing with iTunes = GOOD. I have more questions about the details like if iTunes will do a full backup of the Pre like it does iPhones, but I can't see how anybody who uses Macs would see this as a bad thing.
@Paul we are enraged because itunes sucks. It is the most locked up, closed source program out there. Pretty much every media player that you can download is more customizable than itunes (and doesn't have that lame auto sync feature which causes its users to lose all of their songs on their ipod).
You see, the Apple Haters ARE outraged, LOL. I'm glad you people came here and helped to prove my point. Thanks.
Will: Ignorance is not your friend, man. Step away from the stupid. Auto syncing in iTunes is OPTIONAL. If you don't like it, turn it off. How is it locked up when it accepts so many different types of audio and video standards? AAC is an actual audio standard, it's not even slightly proprietary. Your arguments against iTunes are idiotic at best.
Who cares if the Pre syncs with iTunes or not except for the few Palm Pre users. Not that it makes much sense. If they were smart and wanted a cellphone that syncs with iTunes, they should have gone out and bought an iPhone. Surely Mac owners aren't going to go out and buy a Pre. People are known to be crying about how crappy iTunes is for managing music, anyway. Pre users should be content with drag and drop management of files or whatever people use in place of iTunes. Doesn't the Pre have it's own media management program? Potential Pre users would likely be the type to be wanting the all-you-can-eat subscription music services.
Apple fanboys don't hate Pre users. Can't. Pre users don't yet exist. Nearly nobody has a Pre or stands much of a chance of getting one in the near future. Currently, the Pre is just an insignificant bug ready to be squashed by most of the smartphone industry. Google has said that there will be 20 to 30 Android-powered smartphones next year. The Pre is going to be lost in the flood of Android devices which everyone said would dominate. There have been lots of claims that the Android platform is far better than every other platform, WebOS included. Good luck, Palm against Android's 900% growth rate.
Let's wait and see if Apple publically gives this their blessing or not. That could open up iTunes to other mp3 players as well as phones. Otherwise, this is definately a good thing.
I also want to see ZunePass Integration on the Pre. Nothing like freedom of choice. Could lead to ZunePass on the iPod and iPhone. Oh the possibilities.
@Shyam D
Nokia already produce a plug-in for their Symbian phones. Palm aren't the first on the block here.
But there's another point everyone should consider. A know a lot of Blackberry users who have iPod touches. Some of them have Blackberries because they're required at work, others have them because they can't get corporate discounts with the iPhone. In fact, I had a friend that told me exactly that. He said that if Apple had given his employer a corporate discount, then he would have an iPhone.
But that's funny to me, because he just bought an iPod touch. I have another friend who needs iTunes because he's a minister and his church publishes their sermons on iTunes through podcasts. iTunes is becoming the standard for a lot of things that have nothing to do with iPods and iPhones.
So this is more good news for Apple. This will be even better if Apple releases an iPod touch with a video camera because I know a bunch of people who would ditch their Flip cameras immediately if this happened.
Apple breaking Pry sync with iTunes in 3 ... 2 ...
We have seen before lots of nice accidental features Apple have pretty much intentionally killed with simple software/firmware update.
Expect iTunes 8.2 to arrive June 7th with "New Features".
Apple could very well shoot themselves in the foot by breaking compatibility. Palm would be able to make a compelling arguement for an Apple monopoly & gov't intervention if they try to lock out the third party from the application.
I know this arguement has been made before, but I don't think iTunes was quite the size it is today.
Yeah, we'll have to see what Apple does about this. They are pretty erratic when it comes to what they do and don't like to work with their s/w.
I think part of the problem is they hate having to worry about compatibility -- You never know what changes they might make in iTunes that will accidentally break Pre compatibility, and they don't want to feel like they have to test iTunes with a million different devices each time they release a new revision. This is the problem Microsoft faces -- by supporting tons of hardware, they have to spend absurd amounts of time and money on QA, and even then it's a total crapshoot.
It looks bad if they allow the Pre to sync, but then accidentally break it later because they don't know what hooks in the code the Pre depends on. But it also looks bad if they intentionally break it.
Also, from a business standpoint, which is more important? Does iTunes sell Macs? Do iPhones sell Macs? They probably care more about locking the Pre out because iTunes doesn't really make them money, but the iPhone does.
But if iTunes compatibility helps remove a barrier to Mac acceptance, maybe it's worth spending the time and effort supporting the Pre going forward. I bet there is a meeting in Cupertino about this right now.
@UnixSystemEngineer: iTunes serves two primary purposes for Apple: (1) As a conduit to their Media and Apps store, and (2) as software which integrates iPods and iPhones with this store, with the user's computer, and with the internet (especially in the case of non-Touch iPods). The relative seamlessness of the latter, in my opinion, contributes most to the success of iTunes, the iTunes Store and Apple's media players and phones. I wouldn't consider iTunes to be a mechanism whereby Apple attracts users to its personal computers. After all, iTunes is available for Windows.
I think you bring up a good point about the effort required to ensure compatibility. Why would Apple expend their intellectual and financial resources to ensure that a competitor is compatible with their software? It doesn't make sense from a business perspective, particularly given that the Pre's success is far from guaranteed and given the success Apple has had in exclusively supporting iPhones and iPods. It also doesn't conform to Apple's history of being notoriously exclusive. I don't expect the Pre to be supported in any future releases of iTunes. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if Apple deliberately attempts to defeat any future compatibility with the Pre.
Yeah I recall how quickly Real Player's attempt at having their DRM work on ipods resulted in Apple firmware updates (required of course to use the newest itunes) that broke support. Not to mention if you've purchased any itunes tracks they'd expire unless you synced with itunes. And "mysteriously" Real Player stopped syncing even on old firmwares for me.
Wonder how long it'll take before itunes suddenly doesn't recognize Pres
This is like that sceen from the sandlot when smalls and the gang go play on the preppy field and serve them a beat down. Apple should be afraid. Very afraid.
Afraid of what? Afraid that Pre owners can use iTunes to buy music from Apple?
OH NOES MORE REVENUE
Stop being stupid people. Please. Just give it a rest for a while.
Zak, take your own advice and stop being stupid. Don't comment on every little post that you think is stupid... it just makes you look like a raving D-bag.
Mikey - Pot, kettle, black? Or are you going to pretend you didn't just do what you were complaining about? Or wait, let me guess - you think hypocrisy only applies to other people, and not you. Yeah. Let me know when you have a valid counter-point to anything I say, thanks.
Blackberry has been doing this since... last October? I'd therefore be shocked if Palm couldn't do it 8 months thereafter. With Blackberry, it happens if you go to www.blackberry.com/mediasync - and then it syncs, sans the DRM-protected content.
the palm pre should just quietly fail, so Palm will suffer, then Apple can buy palm, and use their teams to work on iPhones, ect.
One of us gooble gobble!
God forbid there is competition in the market.
you're the reason the person above made that apple fanboy joke.
are you a apple shareholder? why would you bother otherwise, whoever makes a good phone and the works should be fine with any non-apple shareholder!
Because it is simple drag and drop, almost every media player can sync with it. The way it should be.
iTunes cares far too much about money, so they may actually not block this. Although whats to stop people from dragging the songs off once they are synced, so they will probably kill it with a firmware before it's released.
Logic has led you to that conclusion, too bad these companies fight like little children.
If the deciding factor in whether or not Apple continues to let the Pre sync with iTunes for music is the money then expect to see this functionality removed - Apple makes much more money on the hardware (iPod/iPhone) than it does on the media you can buy from the iTunes Store.
You misunderstand; Apple barely break even with iTunes music. Apple is a hardware company, and their software, iTunes, OS X, iPhone OS - all exists to sell hardware. Hence the lack of built in third party PMP support on iTunes (and their resistance to the EU's attempts to get them to open iTunes up to third party PMPs, if I remember rightly?). If there was money to be made on the MP3 downloads, Apple would be fine with this and would have opened up third party support long ago (excusing the arguments that it's not Apple's "style" to struggle supporting third party devices), but there isn't.
Hence, Apple will be pissed off at this, since in their eyes, Palm is effectively usurping its popular software, created to sell iPods and iPhones, for the benefit of its Pre.
This + Apple's gnashing about multi-touch patents might turn out to be exciting. Just hope they can figure out some cross-licensing, and that it doesn't cost us Palm.
Yea, you guys are probably right. Still will be interesting to see once the device is out. Only a few more days.
*gets out popcorn and waits*
Well that was unexpected!
ok i'm ready now
That's too bad. You have to waste 8 days 14 hours and 46 minutes of "now" to start working in the "now"
I guess ATT will have yet another thing to edit out of their "Pre Vs. iPhone" document.
The only thing left on that list is the "white availability issue"
But if you're thinkin about my baby, it doesn't matter if you're black or white.
honestly Jay, I don't know if a white Pre would look all that great. Black is nice. Maybe a blood red Pre, or a Green Pre. Other than that, no white.
C'mon, really? Would anyone that doesn't have an iPod actually use iTunes voluntarily?
iTunes is the poster boy to show how software shouldn't be written. It's the prime example in all college Programming 101 classes of what not to do.
If I were Palm I would deny any connection with iTunes.
It is a very good example, the other one used in programming classes is Adobe's newer product lineup.
True, +1
Why is everyone bashing on iTunes?
I've been using it for years before buying my iPod touch. I still believe it's way better than Windows Media Player. Yes, I've had my share of bad experiences about iTunes but nothing major enough to ditch it.
@cedrikfd, how about you be on topic, were bashing the UI.
--off topic--
Also try and convert a video with iTunes to your device of choice... oh it just failed. That's weird I can play the video, but it won't convert to my device. That's just one example.
It's a long ways behind Windows Media Player (I'm not even referencing WMP 12, WMP 11 is light years ahead).
what exactly is wrong with itunes in terms of programming? this is a genuine question, not trying to argue or anything like that...
Yes, I used iTunes for a very long time before getting an iPod. It has a good, clean interface and allows me to organize my music exactly how I like it. AAC is also miles away from mp3 in terms of quality. My only major complaint is the lack of FLAC...
I am in no way a fanboy, in fact I despise Apple and especially MacOSX, but the one piece of software I like is iTunes.
Besides that, what about people who have/had an iPod, and now want the Pre? Why should they want to switch their carefully organized libraries to another piece of software when they could just keep using what they were using? I know I've spent many, many hours naming, tagging, organizing, and creating playlists for all my music, and the one thing that keeps me from going with another brand of PMP (I really, really want a ZuneHD) is that I wouldn't be able to use iTunes.
Can someone please explain the significance of this though?
Does this mean I can drag and drop all my music from iTunes onto the Pre? If so I guess that's nice although I already have an iPod Touch which serves as my portable music player....
Not sure why Apple fanboys would be "enraged" though....sounds like the anti apple heretics are the ones losing their minds.
Roughly speaking, your Pre can be used with iTunes just like an iPod/iPhone. However, there are limitations and that's what adds the rough aspects. The article mentions that DRMed music won't transfer but you should also consider that video purchased from the iTunes Store (TV shows, movies and movie rentals) won't work on the Pre either. So while this news is good for iTunes users who want their music on the Pre, it doesn't mean that the Pre is a straight swap for an iPod or iPhone if you want anything more.
But, hey, it's better than I thought it would be - up until now I wasn't even sure if the Pre would support the Mac, let alone sync its music with iTunes.
Why is this a bad thing for Apple?
If people go out and buy the Pre instead of the iPhone they will want to get their music from somewhere and if iTunes does that for the Pre (like it does for my brothers Blackberry) why should they moan? They'll still be making money after all.
It's the same idea when people buy Apple computers, and people think Microsoft loses in anyway. Office and a lot buy a Windows OS license shortly after.
Although in this scenario, Apple makes quite the profit for their devices and branding. Although with the Walmart news they could be changing their strategies.
priceless.
very nice...adding yet another reason to get a Pre...hmmm if apple can block it with a software upgrade can't Palm come back with a firmware upgrade as well?
i'm getting a Pre on saturday anyway so its not a dealbreaker either way. just more Pre gravy!
Yea, and unlike Apples products, a firmware is sent over the air, so basically everyone will update within days of it coming out.
I don't think firmwares of 200-300 MB will be sent OTA. Especially not in the US crap networks. Bug fixes maybe, but not significant updates.
Android 1.5 for t-mobile was OTA.
Sprints network in my area could easily facilitate it. I know that updates are OTA, I just don't know what that entails.
Please let this be true... But, Im still not buying one because of the Sprint factor.:-(
God... no.. oh god no.... the iTunes interface... and the iBuds holding the Pre' down....
NO.... NO NO...
ITS RAPING MEEEEE.....
um...
down with apple?...
just saying : )
Not that I care one bit about the iTunes ecosystem, but I was in an argument with someone yesterday that the only thing left that the iPhone has going for it compared to the pre was....itunes. Well until apple puts the nix on this I guess advantage pre!
The Pre is a no brainer for me since I get 3G coverage everywhere I am with sprint and would be on Edge 80% of the time with iPhone and at&t. Duh! Finally Sprint has a device worth waiting in line for!
It does indeed sound as though the Pre is on a level playing field with the iPhone as far as music is concerned (non-3G downloads excepting) but do bare in mind that the iTunes Store sells video as well and this won't play on the Pre. So, if you want video from the iTunes Store then an iPod or iPhone is still the way to go.
Frankly, this is more of an argument against DRM for video than anything else.
I'm not a fan of iTunes at all, I prefer to buy music at Amazon.
Most of my music comes from places other than iTunes. I love Amazon's mp3 store. BUT I do use iTunes to manage and play my music. I don't really understand what people hate about iTunes as software for managing music and video. I've tried other apps (on Windows) and never found anything that I liked even half as much. Please, if you've got a better suggestion for managing your music and video on either Windows or Mac, let me know, because I'd like to try it.
You're a fan of lower quality tracks, huh? Neat. Well go ahead and buy your lower quality tracks at Amazon, then drag them into iTunes and sync them to your Pre. What? iTunes works with Amazon tracks? OMGWTF?!?!?!
@Zak
"You're a fan of lower quality tracks, huh? Neat. Well go ahead and buy your lower quality tracks at Amazon, then drag them into iTunes and sync them to your Pre."
Every Audiophile will tell you that the popular forms of compressed music (MP3/WMA/AAC/OGG...etc) is lower quality compared to Wav files and other Lossless audio codecs. That having been said, how are 256kps MP3s from Amazon "lower quality" compared to 256kpbs AAC files from iTunes? There have been arguments about which codec is "better", but there still isn't a unanimous winner in that debate. So your argument about lower quality fails. Second, Amazon's MP3s have no DRM...so their tracks play on EVERY portable media player and music capable cellphone/smartphone...including older models that didn't have AAC support (yes, you can get DRM free tracks on iTunes...finally, but not all of their catalog has been completely upgraded yet).
"What? iTunes works with Amazon tracks? OMGWTF?!?!?! "
iTunes works with MP3s whether purchased from Amazon or ripped from your legally purchased CDS...this is not news or anything even snark worthy. And the Pre supports drag and drop...which totally negates the "NEED" to use iTunes or anything else. iTunes is totally necessary for iPod/iPhone family by design.
Pre looks better everyday. Though I'll pass on any iTunes integration, I really hate how bloated the software is, I'd rather use Amazon.
Nice to know, and I'll add that to the list of what the pre can do.
but I won't be using iTunes anyway. its such a bag of fail.
I say this is bullshit. iTunes has been around for like 8 years. Somebody should have figured this out already if it was legally or technically feasible.
As I pointed out earlier, Nokia figured this all out several years ago.
At least they got something right compared to Microsoft. I bet if Microsoft would let the Zune sync in iTunes, tons of Mac people would switch (and make it available world wide!)
I might not switch but at least I'd give the Zune serious consideration.
Yeah I switched. I switched to the iPhone, threw the Zune (a.k.a. Toshiba Gigabeat) in the garbage. And the more people switch to either the Pre or iPhone/iTouch the better everyone will be.
Is it just me, or does anyone else think the Pre just looks ugly? Not to mention bulky & cheap/plasticy looking. I suppose most probably don't really care as long as the price is right for them & it does the things they want it to do.
Yeah but I feel kinda the same about the G1, the iPod and the iPhone.
I'm probably just picky.
Actually, I kinda like it for some reason.
no it's just you.
Not necessarily ugly but it's certainly not the best looking device that I have seen and I'd agree that it has a plastic appearance (that's a bit hard to hide). Still, if it does the business then I'm sure all will be forgiven.
Back in the day when you plugged in a Creative MuVo thing into your computer it showed up in iTunes. They never blocked this. It really isn't that big of a deal though with drag and drop. My biggest concern is how playlists will work on the pre.
I was going to mention this. Back before the iPod Apple actually added support for a bunch of third-party MP3 players to iTunes (iTunes came before the iPod). I wonder if that plug-in functionality is still somewhere in the bowels of iTunes or if they removed it.
So, you are telling me Pre will be recognized by iTunes and I can sync my song/movies/videos/podcast/apps? Probably just the songs I assume. Either case, 2 on1 is not right..not right at all.
I suspect that podcasts ought to work as well since they are normally just MP3 files organised like the tracks of an album. I don't see video purchased from the iTunes Store working, although non-DRMed video that you have imported should also work fine, if Palm has added support for it.
This is great for people like me who use their ipod touch most of the time for music, but would also like to have some music synced to their phone when they don't have both devices on them.
I prefer to keep my main media player separate from my phone, so that I don't have to drain the phone battery.
Does anyone actually enjoy using iTunes? It's so counter-intuitive to me. Why is the checkbox for manually handling songs off by default? Perhaps its because when I select anything over 50 media files and drag it over to the iPod, iTunes slows to an absolute crawl.
If I could just use explorer/finder windows to click and drag over content as if it were a removable thumb drive things would be so much easier.
I extremely dislike iTunes. Counter-intuitive bloated piece of shiz.
It works fine for me, but this is on a Mac where I suspect that it works best - by all accounts the Windows version is rubbish.
Works flawlessly for me too. I haven't seen anything that was counter intuitive in its design.
Why would apple stop it? More business for them any ways! If they lock pre out of syncing with iTunes their being stupid and stubborn all in one move. I think if anything they will make more money off iTunes with Pre's so called "Seamless syncing".
Why would Apple block this? They do have a SDK to help you integrate your PMP with iTunes (Mac only, though). iTunes could already sync with a wide range of MP3 players before the iPod was even released. I think this imaginary battle between Apple and Palm is waaay overstated by sites as engadget and the like. I mean, if Apple hates Palm so much, why would they state Palm's webOS as an example of webkit's versatility? (see: http://www.apple.com/safari/what-is.html )
Who would want to use the resource-hogging iTunes with their Pre??? I'll pass on that, thanks anyway.
That Palm made the Pre work with iTunes speaks volumes to how well the market has received and accepted iTunes. Pre users will get to enjoy the largest digital music store ever, that's definitely a win in my book.
This gets better and better... Jackpot!
UK release can't come quick enough.
Why would Apple block this? That would shut down a potential revenue stream. Apple has to realize that some people may just want a Mac of some sort, and not an iPod(Phone), but a phone or media player of their choice.
If you want to buy music from the iTunes store, knock yourself out. Play it on whatever player you want. By continually locking the iPod and iTunes, they limiting their customer base.