We've seen some pretty weird stuff in our years on this planet -- heck, we've revived our own drenched Sony DAP by
burying it in rice for 48 hours -- but this is easily one of the most bizarre gizmo resurrections we've ever come across. As the tale goes, one valiant NVIDIA
GPU owner apparently bit on a myth which suggested that a pinch of time in the oven (quite literally, might we add) would repair faulty GPUs that were throwing up oodles of vertical lines. After purchasing another GPU to replace his ailing
8800GTX, he figured he had zilch to lose and gave it a shot; lo and behold, the temporary warmth seemingly melted the solder points and healed micro-fractures that were causing the unwanted lines. We've yet to hear how his attempt at returning the new GPU went, but hey, there's always eBay. Give the read link a look if you're still in disbelief.
[Via
Digg]
posted May 30th 2009 9:57PM
On the latest news: NVIDIA and ATI create a Video Card so powerful no oven can melt it.
On other news: Intel failed in creating an Ovencard.
As someone who makes and messes with integrated circuits, semiconductors, and PCBs for a living, I find it totally unimpressive and un-newsworthy that someone discovered that they can reflow solder with heat.
I know, right? Isn't that intense? The same magic that makes the solder flow in the first place, heat, can be used to reflow it! Oh my gosh!
(This trick also applies to the Xbox 360 towel mod, same concept exactly.)
@nerdtalker
yeah I was about to say, this is pretty much what kids have been doing with their RRoD'd 360s for years. I mean, wrapping that thing in a thick towel is almost the equivalent of this.
Exactly. This is how the card was originally made, in a reflow oven. Of course, a problem with your videocard is most likely not a bad solder connection, but if the card is already bad it's worth a shot. Just don't do it too long or too hot, or you might have components falling off the down side.
@nerdtalker: It doesn't work that way, the towel trick forces the 2 red light (overheat) error which lets the xbox360 boots normally after it cools down (which doesn't happen with the 3 red light error). It's just a temporally fix, it doesn't do anything to the solder points in the motherboard.
For someone who makes and messes with integrated circuits, semiconductors, and PCBs for a living, it's funny that you actually believe that by overheating the xbox you're going to fix an overheating issue.
If you ovenclock an ovencard, it doesn't ovenheat.
Wow... Amazing...
Sounds like when I read about someone popped a PS3 board in the oven and it fixed the YLOD.
You know what else is amazing? Somehow Engadget managed to screw up 2 things in the title alone. According to the read link, it was 5 minutes at 385 degrees... not 10 minutes at 425. Small and irrelevant, I know, but seriously how do you screw up something so simple? The forum post was about 10 lines long.
may be way out there but im going to assume its a pizza joke as thats in the ball park
My pizzas always take a good 12-13 minutes at 425... silly Engadgeters eating undercooked pizza.
dare you to do that to your brand new faulty macbook!
Actually, that's how I dry my Macbook after I get out of the shower.
If it's brand new I assume it would still be in warranty...
I dare you to find a faulty MacBook
I'd ask you to do that with a fault PC but that's ALL PC's
@Elijah: That's not hard to do. Apple has a problem with some of the Macbook/Macbook Pro lines which cause the screen to show lines. They handled it under warranty, but that's still a faulty Macbook.
People have been doing this for years. It's nothing new.
did the same thing to my xbox 360 mobo to fix the RROD. it probably reflows cold solder points b/c of all the lead-free solder that's in use these days. there's nothin new here.
I'm gunna try that, fucking E74.
I overheated my old XBox 360 (a.k.a. the towel trick) a few times to get rid of faulty video output... Let's just say it is a temporary fix as it eventually went full RRoD on me and I had to buy me a new one.
Both E74 and RROD are covered in the 3-year extended warranty now...why not make Microsoft fix its mistake?
perhaps because there are those who have voided their warranties in various ways...
Then they deserve what ever they get.
II just want everyone to know that i tried it and it worked. My 360 is reborn!!!!!
PS: of course i would had let Microsoft fix it if i still had warranty.
Microsoft will still replace it even if you have opened you Xbox. Worst case they'll just send you back your old one still broken. It's not like they can say "You voided your warranty, you can't have this back".
That's pretty neat... never thought of that. Although the risk is high, I'm sure.
in goes my old dell...
I hear this also gets babies to stop crying...
hmmm I still don't get the dead baby joke appeal after all these cyber years.
Is it a good idea to heat this up in an oven?
sure! it was for 8800GTX guy!
it's not like putting aluminum foil in a microwave oven.
Is it a good idea to microwave this?
@zevdawg:
sure! it was for 8800GTX guy!
it's not like putting aluminum foil in a microwave oven.
Awesome! I'm putting all my electronics in the oven!
(am I unbanned...?)
Ha! I'm back! I see Engadget's comment system is still crap.
Like all your comments troll...
AHAHAHAHAH!!!!
Hooray! My avatar still randomly changes!
@Aguiluz, but does yours flick between 3 different icons? Mine does.
Too bad I'm still banned. Oh wait... :o
In 10+ years of online activity, I believe this is the only site to have banned me.
Remember this for the SATs, you high schoolers. Oven is to NVIDIA GPU as Jesus is to Lazarus.
Your analogy expired in the age of the modem-internets.
Also, they got rid of the SAT analogy section because they were too hard.
Seriously? Is an AMiSH PiRATE that far behind in the times?
BRB eBay, looking for 'dead' GTX295's
Dude... Great idea... !!!!!!!!
Dude... not seeing any :(.
to the few that are saying "nothing new here," there's obviously plenty of people that have never heard of this sort of thing... And I gotta say, it's pretty funny... kind of like when I heard about the towel trick for the first time, I didn't believe it, until I Googled harder and an explanation totally made sense of it. This makes sense too I guess. Still seems really odd though.
Both E74 and RROD are covered in the 3-year extended warranty now...why not make Microsoft fix its mistake?
Curse my laptop...can't click the right thing.
LOL @ "Googled harder".
I wonder if it will work with a microwave... jk!
But can it run Crysis?
Cook at 425°F for 10 minutes, or until the edges are golden brown. Let stand for 25 minutes. Serves 1 Gamer.
*POP* ... *zizzle...*
hmm. would this work for the 360? lol
Yes, just put the whole thing in the oven at 400 F for about 25 minutes and watch the magic.
Is the oven nVidia SLi Certified? Can I cook two cards (may be three...) at the same time?
I love the make shift repairs! The good old coolpix lens failure can be fixed by smashing your elbow into the spot under the lens a good 10 some odd times.
It's not a myth, this is based on a principal called Charge trap up. In which electrons which are moving too quickly get injected into barrier materials in the semiconductor device. These added electrons then cause the device characteristics to change usually leading to computational errors as bias points and transistor characteristics change. Heating the device gets the electrons excited enough and makes the barrier material porous enough that they are able to escape threw normal grounding channels.
If the card in question is having these issues then there are chemical imbalances in the barrier material. So the problem will simply come back latter. The only preventative method is to keep the card very cool and this will greatly slow down the effects. But seeing as most NVIDIA cards run at 50C without liquid cooling more than likely the problem will happen again.
Also 425F is insufficient to melt Surface mount solder points. Once those points are cooked once it takes a significant amount more heat to remelt them. Seeing as most ovens run at 300-350C 425F is greatly insufficient. Also micro-fractures in the board itself cannot be healed threw heat as those traces are solid copper.
Sorry for the overly technical response I just don't like these kind of myths about semiconductor processes, they irk me.
I enjoy the technical responses. Someone should write a paper on what can and cannot be solved by heating in a conventional oven, then the hearsay can stop.
Seen this work on so many electronics. It works especially well on RROD XBOX'S :D
Oh dear.
Using a heatgun would be a better option. Lots of people, including me, have been using this method to fix Xbox 360s with the 3RLOD or E74 error since the problem first started cropping up. Unfortunately, the fix hardly ever lasts longer than 3 months or so.
Reflow temp for lead free solder is quite high. I hate working with it and it's just not as pretty as a standard leaded solder/paste. Putting your video card, or any electronics, in your kitchen oven is something you should NOT do.
hmmmm *runs to kitchen and throws dead ipod into oven for 10 minutes at 475 degrees* .......wtf it didnt work now i just got a black brick
it was 425˚ silly, that's why!
Now that's it's not white it isn't worth anything anyway.
It's the same fundamental mistake that led to the Xbox 360 RRoD that is causing this, Nvidia cut corners in the manufacturing process leading to a weakened packaging state that can break under heat & stress the issue is covered is a whole lot of forums like Beyond 3D.
If you've any sense or want to minimize hassle avoid buying a Nvidia GPU (that runs hot like high end or laptop) for a while.
Umm...nVidia doesn't make cards, AFAIK, they only design them and sell the designs to other companies that make them.
I fixed a couple of cards by getting a reworker to run them through the BGA reflow machine in work. Easy.
@ Rocky. You say engadget made a mistake about temperature and time. Well your time is wrong too. The article in the link says he put it in for 8-10 minutes at 385F.
That guy needs to do some cleaning. The oven and pots on top were filthy in the photos.
Holy crap i just tried this on my dead video card and it got rid of most of the lines! My Insperon 9300 video card died because it overheated when the fan failed... i just tried this method and the latop screen boots up again!!!
Its going back in the oven for another 5 min to see if it can boot into windows again!
The screen works but it doesn't boot windows? Why would putting it back in make it work?
W00t... it works! now i just have to get a new fan and i just saved some coin!
I guess because it missed some solder... or it didnt heat up enough!!
This is sweet thanks for the post saved my lappy
The basic problems with such a method, even if they did stand up to the stress-test of time:
1) You can't be sure the problem you're having is the same problem that he had, where a problem that would ordinarily equal itself due to equivalent symptoms isn't equal to itself due to a difference in sources.
2) It's a rather delicate procedure, he hit it right on the money in terms of heat and time but it doesn't mean you will.
All in all, even if you could be 100% sure (and you can't) that it would work after the DIY repair job, you should still send it in for the professionally-suavely-delayed refurbished unit you always end up getting back from repairs.
You're busting my ball-grids man.
so what goes on eBay, the new chip, or the original, re-fried model?
I, for one, am not buying.
I'd rather buy an ATI card and use my oven to cook pizza.
That can't smell good coming out of the oven...
Why the oven works is also because of the new lead free solder and also why the space program is exempt!
Reason is called TIN whiskers that grow over time from the lead free solder and short out a connection. This is the bain of modern electronics, but welcome by manufacturers as the quickly obsolete part must then be replaced! And you thought lead free was about saving the planet.......
Tin has a very low melting point and the whiskers are "reflowed" at the sub 400F temperature restoring the operation of the electronic part. If you had a break in one of the soldered connections, you would need to approach 600F to get the solder molten enough to flow and "fix" the problem...
The original story says 385F not 425F. Nice try.
Hahahaha HAHAHA! Yes this does work! I just pop my Belkin wireless G MIMO in the oven at 425 for 10 mins. Even though it looked a little over cooked, it still works. This device got a little water logged one rainy day and was very corroded. I did clean it and tried it after words but it was dead. 2 months later ran across this article and tried it. WoW nice!
Hmmm, you can reflow solder balls but that's not gonna fix the cause, which is the pcb bending because of the heat generated by probably the gpu. Some extra/better cooling might help...