We
had a hunch that 3DV Systems' technology -- which we actually
toyed with back at CES 2008 -- had
something to do with Microsoft's newly unveiled
Project Natal motion tracking solution, and today details have trickled in to us confirming as much. As the story goes, 3DV Systems was initially hoping to have the ZCam in the manufacturing process by the tail end of 2008, but Microsoft swooped in and acquired the outfit just weeks after it blew minds in January. At the time, not much thought was given to the pickup; now, however, we're treated to a bona fide ZCam brochure which details the actual specifications behind the Xbox 360's newest friend. Granted, we have every reason to believe that Natal has advanced significantly from what you'll see in the gallery below, but it's still a tasty nugget of behind-the-scenes information. Of note, the former 3DV Systems VP of Business Development was quoted as saying that the target retail price of the ZCam was $100, though it still had aways to go as of early 2008.
posted Jun 3rd 2009 4:21PM
Killing wild boars outside Goldshire will never be the same.
I wonder if Natal recognises the shocker?
Hmm a morepig grindemup where you have to perform stabbing motions with your arms thousands of times...
I'm sure if I had to get up and chase a boar down it just wouldn't happen. I'm too lazy. In fact, if I might just stop playing games all together if I need to get up and be interactive.
http://gizmodo.com/5277954/testing-project-natal-we-touched-the-intangible
Big Brother Natal is watching you...
AND SHOCK!
The concept of doing spell gestures (like the 'shock' gesture in the brochure) for games has me both intrigued and weary.
Duh
I wonder how long it will take MS to bring this out?
I'm hoping for at the latest holidays 2010, because if not then they might just turn around and say "Available with Xbox 720, next year (2011)".
What do you guys think.
PS. Sorry for posting up here. Just wanted to start a interesting topic.
In Soviet Russia, interface controls YOU!
That was an Israeli company.
This will be great for casual gamers.
The hardcore will stick with the traditional controller.
I am sure these are Microsoft's intentions as well.
Israel huh? Thats cool
That guy's got his rape-face on.
That girl has her chunky face on.
You are the condom head.
You mean Microsoft bought another company instead of developing/innovating it themselves? no way.
You do realise that that's how all three console makers make their consoles?
Collaboration & acquisition.
Why on earth would a company waste R&D time & money or potential lawsuits when they can either pay license or buy the R&D of a company???
If you're gonna have a go at least try harder
There isn't anything wrong with that.
Why spend a crap load of money for inventing the wheel when another guy has done it and you are going to pay them a fair price.
It seem like a really smart decision.
Somebody please turn on LordPaul's sarcasm detector ;)
They may have stolen it...but it's a brilliant move that will totally steals the Wii's thunder.
I understood the sarcasm, but it was snarky so warranted a reply
Yah like Apple does, like Sun does, like Cisco does, like Novel does. Are you really that dense? Every companies does this. First off its cheaper. Secondly it takes year off of R&D. And third....they now own any patents so MS no longer has to worry about some random company coming along to sue them...at least in this instance. seriously. Go away fanboi. your ignorance just demonstrates just how much a fanboi you are.
Grant, how did MS steal it? They bought the company, welcome to the business world. That isn't stealing an idea, its paying for it.
Not to mention that acquisitions can also speed up the production of technology like this. It might take many years for 3DV Systems to fully develop this technology, produce and sell it at a price that most consumers can reach, and then make a good profit from. With a big company like Microsoft acquiring it, this technology will easily reach the masses far more faster, have a good chunk of money available for this project, and a superb integration with an already existing product.
Acquisitions can be really good for everybody if put to good use like this. It's only when a company buys another company, and ends up dissolving it due to lack of strong commitment, when it becomes a bad thing.
To the contrary of this article, a MS exec Shane Kim stated yesterday that this technology was developed in-house and was in progress for "a long time" before 3DV was purchased.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/e3-natal-not-derived-from-3dv
My guess would be that MS bought 3DV to avoid patent litigation and smooth the road for future adoption of pieces of their technologies.
so basically m$ swooped in, snatched a piece of hardware we could all use everywhere, stalled it for a year (or more) and now its going to be specifically used on the 360. so that sucks. so that's capitalism for u :-(
It says "Requirements: PC"
Most other Xbox peripherals can be used on the PC, so maybe this will too.
No mention of other consoles or Mac.
(see my comment above)
Oh, and before I get any crap for being an MS fanboy or whatever: I use my PS3 more than my 360 for games, and my Wii sits gathering dust when I'm not using WiiFit (or waiiting for indy to come out) but this camera thing looks awesome (& I'll prob buy it & the PS3 one as well if the games/whatevers are fun enough)
YES that makes total sense.. Microsoft is the 1st and only company to ever acquire the technology and rights to a certain piece of tech by purchase..
Apple,Sony,Xerox,Intel,Toshiba hell every large software or Electronics company has done the exact same thing a 100 times over. I bet every piece of tech your using now at one point had a part somewhere with some smaller company that was bought by a large company.
Granted there is nothing stopping MS from releasing this technology as a computer peripheral used to control whatever comes out after W7. Eventually computer screens will be huge wall mounted thin devices well control without a mouse and keyboard.
i hope this comes to windows or linux or whatever.
minority report anyone??
multitouch panels are expensive and you have to be up close
Quick! A company is making money! Call the government so that it can be stopped at once!!
But seriously, I think it will be interesting to see how well this will be implemented.
I do believe this is cooler than the wii's controls, however if this thing does cost an extra $100, I don't think you'll win over too many wii owners that don't already have an xbox. I mean the cheapest xbox would be back up to $300 with this thing added.
And only time will tell if this is just another 'eye-toy' in terms of sales or the next greatest thing.
But I'm kind of torn between this technology and Sony's tech--I can see advantages to both.
arguably, being bought out by microsoft is probably a good thing... do you think you'll see more games being developed for a camera that a tiny, unproven company sells or games being developed for a camera that works with the Xbox 360, which has a huge install base?
this acquisition helps all parties involved, including the consumer. now we're much more likely to see awesome games. and if microsoft likes money, they'll also release this for the PC.
Not to mention, microsoft has more programmers and engineers to throw behind improving the tracking algorithms and whatevs on the camera than the smaller company did (actually, they probably even kept most of the people on after they bought the company out. this is capitalism at it's best, not worst.)
How will this work for shooters I wonder?
I think you point your fingers at the screen and go, "pew pew pew...."
Pew pew pew only if its a laser gun...
great. Now I can just say 'boom headshot' and it happens.
Since it detects ir, there could come alot of cheap periperals. Like a plastic gun with an ir led on it. Make the led send some ir codes and software that detects the sort of gun, when u fire etc... (kinda like laser tag) U could make those really cheap
Cool.
Now we need a Sony's motion sense tech roots article: www.camspace.com
I'm certain this is not the first time you've mentioned camspace :)
Oh, I don't know. Sony's motion device patent goes back to 2003, and Richard Mark (the same engineer we saw at the e3 demoing the device) WAY WAY back at Siggraph in 2000 demonstrated essentially what your camspace is doing today, with just EyeToy to optically track a wand with a green orb on it that Rich was holding.
I'd hope your camspace crew have their own patents somehow unrelated to what Sony has actually done and demonstrated for nearly a decade now, otherwise things could get ugly.
Did they hire the President of the National Douche Association for this add? Is he swaying to "Hip Hop Horay"?
Hmmm... Microsoft has an interesting definition of "innovation". The actual creativity rarely if ever originates with Microsoft.
For the first 20 years of the microcomputer era, it's pretty much a "six degrees of Kevin Bacon" game to list Microsoft products and know enough history to know who it was licensed then stolen from, stolen outright from, "embraced and extended" from, or bought from. At least in this case the original creator actually got something for their trouble.
Even that doesn't include the products that were destroyed because Microsoft "pissed on" them or conversely claimed that they were going to come out with something just like it (killing investment in the original), just long enough for the original to fail, at which time Microsoft would "change its mind" about developing such a system.
I remember presentations where Microsoft bragged about how much money was in their R&D budget. I'm not sure what came of that other than Microsoft Bob around that time.
Anyway, color me not surprised. At least this cool idea will see the light of day in a very broad setting. Hopefully the creators won’t get cut out of the action too soon.
Yes. Just like every single other major corporation in the world(Apple included)
And what's more, Kent, no-one really cares.
Only those left standing get remembered.
Big company buys smaller company for use with established brand! film at 11!
Great attitude. Only the ones left standing get remembered. Lets just make sure the only ones left standing are giant multinationals. That way everyone can get rich!!! Oh wait that way nobody gets rich other than the CEOs.
Innovation has been stifled to a crawl. The last 50 years of the 20th century pale to the first 50 years. In large part due to giant corporations buying out innovations so they would not have to adapt.
Asian girly is damn damn cute, but woman got some serious feet! O.O
oooh, in the screenshots. i was about to say.. i think u may want to invest in a pair of glasses
Wa BAM! There it is!
Actually, that brochure is mainly about the visual aspects of it. My mate's brother works over in Redmond & has been working in the voice recognition team for years so it wouldn't surprise me if the software & speech recognition has been massively complimented by Microsoft since they took it on
Am I the only one who hates "a ways to go", which has now apparently morphed in to "aways to go"?
It's "a way" to go, as in, "a long way".
I know language is fluid/living and all that, but there's no need to mutilate it.
Yours sincerely,
The English
You expect Americans to write proper English? Good one.
Microsoft... the Fiscal Frontier. These are the voyages of the software enterprise. Its twenty-five-year mission: to acquire strange new technologies; to seek out existing markets and under-funded organizations; to boldly go where others have gone before.
Yep. That's true of them and every other tech company in the world.
Not every other company. For example, 3DV Systems strategy was to invent something, then get bought out.
When and where can we purchase this acidhead idiot with a beanie? Honestly, what was wrong with joysticks..?
I wonder if Natal would blur/censor out private parts! Milo would be surprised at the size of my C***. He might even laugh at me. :( LOL
Interesting, because they've already stated that it -isn't- based on anything from 3DV, and was primarily designed in-house. Which isn't that much of a shocker if you've been keeping up with a couple of Microsoft Research projects for the past two years or so.
Anyway: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/e3-natal-not-derived-from-3dv
The purchase was probably patent related. Since Microsoft only bought 3DV a few months ago, they couldn't have developed 3DV's stuff that quickly. 3DV and Microsoft aren't the only companies developing time-of-flight cameras, so it helps to have patents to defend against lawsuits.
Duh Engadget, it took you this long to figure this out?
By the way, nothing in that brochure suggests that those are "the actual specifications behind the Xbox 360's newest friend." All that brochure says is that the ZCam can do stuff that Natal can also do, but we already knew that.
Is that the guy from those old Dell commercials?
I wonder if microsoft gonna use this technology to release AO Game?
don't track me bro!
Hey Engadget, Just thought you should know this story was scooped by you readers already. Just check the comments in your previous stories about the rumored device.
Doesn't anyone care about the name they chose for this? Natal??
natal 1 |ˈnātl|
adjective
of or relating to the place or time of one's birth : after puberty a Hindu girl does not stay long in her natal home.
natal 2 |ˈneɪdl| |ˈneɪt(ə)l|
adjective Anatomy
of or relating to the buttocks : the natal cleft.
Actually Natal is a city in Brazil. The person heading up the project is from there. And its pronounced "nuh-tall" Though the mistake is understandable if you didn't hear the keynote announcement.
Warrrriors!!!!--come out and ppplllaaayyyyyyy!!!!!Warrrriors!!!!--come out and ppplllaaayyyyyyy!!!!!
Hy Engadget!
A "gesture tracking system", which is able to recognize a left to right motion to switch your channels, is not the same as a "full body movement tracking system", which is able to distinguish your body parts and can tell your eye blinking from a single finger move.
Thank you very much
i think this man is trying to choke or scare someone! he is so... sick
This will clarify some recent discussions surrounding GestureTek in the 3D space. GestureTek is the inventor, pioneer and world leader in video gesture control technology for both 2D and 3D cameras. Our software works with 3DV, Mesa, Prime Sense, Canesta and other 3D depth cameras. For more than 20 years, we have been creating 3D tracking technology and evangelizing video gesture control as the next step in computer human interaction. With more than 4000 public installations worldwide, we have a robust library of video gesture control technologies, applications and patents. GestureTek has licensed these patents and technologies in various ways to a multitude of consumer electronics providers, including for PlayStation, Xbox 360, Hasbro and others. GestureTek is proud of the trail we’ve blazed in the area of 3D depth tracking and control and our current leading position in the market today.
Here’s more on GestureTek’s 3D tracking and control software: http://www.gesturetek.com/3ddepth/introduction.php .
Here are some more examples of work that GestureTek was showing prior to Natal and this week’s explosion of interest in gesture control games at E3:
- Beijing Olympics Flight Simulator http://www.gesturetek.com/3ddepth/businesscases/3dexplorer.php
- Two-Handed Control Driving Demo http://www.gesturetek.com/newscenter/media.php?media=58
- Rock em Sock em Robots http://www.gesturetek.com/3ddepth/introduction.php.
Our software is also being used in a 3D tracking interactive digital signage campaign for telecom giant Sprint.
Another poorly researched Engadget story... This "brochure" was nearly the entirety of the 3DV website back when they showed at CES. Way to take an interest.