Confirmed: Palm Pre's iTunes support is very, very hacky

Careful analysis of a Pre's identity to its host system when connected via USB has now confirmed what's been suspected for a few days now -- the way it hooks to iTunes is very shady indeed. Turns out that the Pre identifies itself as an iPod when it's in Media Sync mode, but only on the system's mass storage interface; the root USB node still comes through as a Palm Pre, which Apple could easily tease out and block if it so chose. We're still up in the air on whether Cupertino would actively move to do that, but regardless, you've got to give a tip of the ol' hacker hat to Palm for its wild ways on this one.

[Scott R @ Jun 4th 2009 4:25PM]

If Apple is smart and equally devious, they might be better off leaving the opening there and then suing Palm and trying to get a court to prevent Palm from being able to sell the pre altogether.

[Jakob @ Jun 4th 2009 4:33PM]

Why it has worked for several Creative devices for a long time? (hey where's Creative?)

[Look_Around_You @ Jun 4th 2009 4:33PM]

So Apple leave the hole, and then sues Palm for using the hole to sync with iTunes, all just to then abuse the legal system to prevent a legitimate product off the market to spare them from competition?

If that's not corporate abuse of the legal system...

[Sam @ Jun 4th 2009 4:34PM]

Apple: We would like to sue palm for enabling people to buy songs from our store.
Judge: Are they making any money from this?
Apple: No, we do.
Judge: Why are you moaning? Couldn't you stop it if you really wanted to?
Apple: Well yes.
Judge: GTFO and do it then, quit your whining.

[Major4Play @ Jun 4th 2009 4:35PM]

Then what happens when Palm points out all the patents they own that Apple stomps all over ?
Geez anything for a free open market why are you iDiots so willing to give all your cash to Apple ?

[Sam @ Jun 4th 2009 4:35PM]

@Jakob

That might have something to do with Creative and Apple's link, with Apple using Creative's click wheel patent...

[Achilles @ Jun 4th 2009 4:38PM]

Suing doesn't solve anything. Both Apple and Palm use each others patents. If Apple doesn't like it, just stop it on their end. I could care less whether or not the Pre can synch with itunes. Just give me the damn Pre already!!!

[UnixSystemsEngineer @ Jun 4th 2009 4:44PM]

Major4Play,

Why don't you wait until something actually happens before spouting off? Oh yeah, because you're just as mindless a drone as the straw man Apple fanboys you invent in your mind.

[---- @ Jun 4th 2009 4:45PM]

we all know how much palm pre wants to be an iphone but you would think pre would just copy itunes and make their own store like all the other phone companies instead of playing ol' hacker hat pre/ipod

[james @ Jun 4th 2009 4:47PM]

This is a really interesting situation..

To me having the pre sync with my itunes is a killer feature.

its either the new iphone or pre for me..

[Scott R @ Jun 4th 2009 5:02PM]

Why was I down-ranked for this? I was just playing devil's advocate. Down-rank if someone says something stupid or untrue, but don't down-rank just because you don't like what they have to say. Yeesh.

[ZZMitch @ Jun 4th 2009 5:54PM]

Actually that is why you down rank.

[CraigJ @ Jun 4th 2009 5:53PM]

Here is the issue,

The Pre is identifying itself as an iPod. If the Pre is marginally successful Apple will probably ignore it, but since a device is identifying itself as an iPod, Apple probably could sue, and they would likely win, because I'm sure the court would frown on a rival companies device pretending to be Apple's device for the purpose of working with Apple's software.

On the other hand Palm has just handed Apple a golden marketing opportunity - If the Pre is successful Apple can claim that iTunes support is part of the reason why, and gee, shouldn't you just buy an iPhone because it's designed to work with iTunes, etc, etc. Either way this is far more favorable for Apple than Palm.

Personally I think Palm is smoking crack to promote this feature. Apple can plug that particular hole if they choose to, leaving Pre users unable to access their iTunes files.

Note that I'm not saying that I think Apple should, or should not do anything.

[Mark Anderson @ Jun 4th 2009 6:14PM]

What's the issue here?

Nokia phones can sync with iTunes and have been able to for years so why would Apple give a shit if the Pre can?

[ghex88 @ Jun 4th 2009 6:52PM]

They should leave the thing open until perhaps v3 version of the pre when it has become more widely used then extort or sue both palm and its consumers for violating apple's iTunes Terms of Use.

[Haha @ Jun 4th 2009 7:02PM]

It could also possibly mean that iTunes hasn't been updated with the Palm Pre info yet, which could come out with a new release of iTunes. Palm Pre hasn't been officially released yet anyway. It identifies it as iPod because it's an unknown but syncable device. Then they can do all their icons and filenames whatever, like when the new Shuffle came out it needed a new iTunes right?

[Josh @ Jun 4th 2009 10:11PM]

@Haha: Unless Apple started to officially support the Pre, there will be no Pre markings anywhere in iTunes. The icons, names, etc. are all built into iTunes and not into the player. So without Apple supporting the Pre, it will always show up as an iPod.

[Lazarpandar @ Jun 5th 2009 12:39AM]

If I were apple I'd release an update that has the ability to cripple the pre's iTunes syncing, but doesn't on the get-go. Then, a month or two after release they flip the death switch and without a downloaded update iTunes stops working with the pre completely.

That, or just make the pre syncing with iTunes completely wonky. Deleting songs randomly, changing the dates and times of appointments, or loading on five copies of each song instead of one.

Both of those don't look like Apple's fault because they can say that the pre isn't supported by iTunes, and any compatibility between the two is coincidence. Palm ends up looking like they make buggy software and a shitty phone. That, or Apple makes money off of the iTunes store. Its a win-win for Apple.

I can't believe Palm would give that much power to a competitor.

(Don't get me wrong I'm in no way an Apple fanboy, if anything I'm a Microsoft one. I just love seeing people get screwed over.)

[iphonerulez @ Jun 4th 2009 11:05PM]

You get downranked because some of the people here are dicks and the site allows this. Upranking and downranking is some childish, elementary school crap. I'm surprised Engadget didn't make it so that if you got downranked ten times, your comment becomes unreadable. I've never downranked anyone just because I don't agree with what they say. Nobody is being forced to read a comment. Comments on this site are taken way too seriously.

[Tanku @ Jun 5th 2009 12:24AM]

@Scott R:

If you read Sam's comment you can tell it's a stupid idea, and Apple following what you said would make them stupid, which isn't "smart and equally devious".

So your comment is stupid AND untrue.

Thus the low rank.

[absolutc @ Jun 4th 2009 4:25PM]

Looks like this might swing either way. Apple might look at is as a good cash crop or it could be viewed as a nuisance. I guess it really depends on the majority?

[naz @ Jun 4th 2009 4:25PM]

Pre users dont update iTunes!

[Chris @ Jun 4th 2009 5:50PM]

Or just ditch it entirely.
.
.
.
.
Cus' it's crap.

[m3tric @ Jun 4th 2009 6:05PM]

Who the hell uses BloatTunes anyway?

[The WC @ Jun 4th 2009 6:31PM]

@ m3tric:

Me, so that's one...

[SONYEDDIE @ Jun 4th 2009 11:15PM]

bullshit thewc you have never used it.
unless you are too of an idot to type www.thepiratebay.org then enter

[Decoy @ Jun 5th 2009 2:28AM]

"unless you are too of an idot"

ಠ_ಠ

[Jarhead111 @ Jun 4th 2009 4:25PM]

Hmm, sneaky sneaky. I wonder if you'll be able to jailbreak the Palm pre as well...

[Freakin Ijit @ Jun 4th 2009 4:29PM]

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Set up your WiFi network connection with your own DNS server, then when the Pre WiFis into "Palm" it goes into YOUR server instead.

[Tim @ Jun 4th 2009 4:55PM]

ljit: And...? I'm guessing you've never heard of digital signatures.

[vrq3 @ Jun 4th 2009 4:26PM]

iTunes should open itself up more to other devices

[FOREX @ Jun 4th 2009 4:41PM]

I agree. iTunes is probably a very good revenue stream for apple and they ought to milk it. There are probably people who want a pre, don't want an iphone, and still want to be able to buy their music on iTunes. By letting more devices work with iTunes apple can increase this revenue stream. They could even liscense the process. That way, they could exclude other pure MP3 players, that might undercut the ipod brand, but let in more phones, which wouldn't. (Lets face it, if you want an iphone you're going to buy one, if you don't you won't.) I think keeping it open and possibly making it less hacky would be smart business for apple.

[ALBGunner04 @ Jun 4th 2009 5:01PM]

It's why I stopped using iTunes. I used to use iTunes when I had an iPod. I bought a Nokia N95, got rid of my iPod, and used my N95 as my multimedia player. Thing is, iTunes didn't recognize it. I just got Winamp instead which synced perfectly with it. I don't understand why Apple is the only company that limits itself when it comes to Media Players.

[Ashwin @ Jun 4th 2009 5:09PM]

iTunes itself doesn't make very much money for Apple itself. Apple's purpose of having iTunes is selling iPods and iPhones. It would be a disaster for them if everyone downloaded iTunes music on Blackberries and Zunes rather than buying iPods and iPhones.

[scobb00 @ Jun 4th 2009 5:11PM]

Funny, for me one of the big wins for Pre is that it _isn't_ chained to iTunes.
Google:
"hate iTunes" 17,500,000 hits
"iTunes sucks" 3,530,000 hits

With all of the alternatives out there, why does anyone put up with iTunes?

[gib @ Jun 4th 2009 5:31PM]

Google
"hate scobb00" 2 hits
"scobb00 sucks" 2 hits

... because no one cares about you.

[matthewsime @ Jun 12th 2009 2:51PM]

And everyone knows that one hit on google is equal to.. one BILLION people.

[scobb00 @ Jun 4th 2009 5:46PM]

@gib
Sorry hun. Did I hurt your feelings? It's not about me - it's about iTunes.
Do you think I made up those numbers? Do it yourself. I know you can...

[gib @ Jun 4th 2009 5:59PM]

Man, what happened to the good ol' days where you could be mean on the Internet without repercussions? I wasn't actually trying to make you cry of anything. I was demonstrating (like matthewsime says) that googling something =/= absolute Truth.

Personally, I say let the Pre use iTunes. Who cares? Otherwise you will just stoke the flames of all the iHaters in the world.

[XGM @ Jun 4th 2009 6:01PM]

@ ALBGunner04

Some of us wish there was a Mac version of Winamp :(

[sanriver12 @ Jun 4th 2009 8:07PM]

why would any windows user use that piece of sh1t software which is iTunes unless you absolutely HAVE TO? dont get it

[barnette.ben @ Jun 5th 2009 1:06AM]

It would be nice for it to work with some phones. But let's be realistic, one of the reasons why the iPod has 70+% market share is because it's so easy to use. Allowing that functionality to be used by competitors means a loss of unit sales. Apple makes a lot of profit on the hardware, not from selling songs on iTunes. When the build cost of the new Shuffle is $20-something and they're selling it for $80 that shows you where they get most of their profit.

[Kyle @ Jun 4th 2009 4:28PM]

no surprising, considering palm basically hired all of apples original ipod staff

[SwineFlu @ Jun 4th 2009 4:27PM]

Just get an iphone and you won't have to worry about it NOT working on itunes

[Amun @ Jun 4th 2009 4:32PM]

I'm busy sending MMS messages with my pre, thanks.

[Shenanigans @ Jun 4th 2009 4:36PM]

Not sure if that's sarcasm or a double negative that went wrong....

Careless Hearts in iTunes? Story to see if Apple's heart is careless or not... Coincidence or not??

[rob thero @ Jun 4th 2009 4:42PM]

@Amun sorry you must have missed the call about 3.0 while you were browsing the web. I'd blame Sprint for not being able to handle both at the same time.

[Jonathan @ Jun 4th 2009 5:00PM]

Ok then, rob. I'll be busy running more than one app at a time. And when I get an instant message, I won't need to go look at the app icon to notice. I'll be notified.

There are too many Pre>iPhone features for you to want to play this game.

[Phenoum @ Jun 4th 2009 5:06PM]

I've had a internet capable phone for 2 years now, and not ONCE have i been talking on the phone, and wished i could look something else up. Yeah my phone wasnt capable of it, but i'm usually multitasking while on the phone anyhow (driving - (yes bluetooth), watching TV, on my computer, etc.) Not exactly a deal-breaker for me, and it wont be for 90% of the population

It's like the 'Del' key in the PC vs Mac debate - some ppl use it and want it, but the OVERWHELMING majority dont even know what the Delete key is used for on a PC, and so it's a moot point.

[johnny @ Jun 4th 2009 5:24PM]

Phenoum - really? i always go online or check email while im on the phone. just yesterday my girlfriend sent me somes pics of painting she did and while i was on the phone i was able to look at the pics she sent while i was on the phone and talk about it. another example. a friend asked me an address or phone number of a business i recommended and i was able to google maps and get it for them without hanging up the phone.