Palm webOS system upgrades mandatory; hacking scene forbidden from tethering
By Nilay Patel 
posted June 15th 2009 11:48AM
posted June 15th 2009 11:48AM
We have been politely cautioned by Palm that any discussion of tethering during the Sprint exclusivity period (and perhaps beyond-we don't know yet) will probably cause Sprint to complain to Palm, and if that happened then Palm would be forced to react against the people running the IRC channel and this wiki.Yeah, that's pretty aggro for a company that needs to court all the developer support it can. We're not sure what'll happen after Sprint's exclusivity runs out, but we can't imagine any other carriers are going to be thrilled about hacked tethering options either, so we'd say Palm's going to keep the pressure on until unlocked GSM webOS devices hit the scene -- and we can almost guarantee that tethering hacks are going to make it into the wild regardless of Palm's actions.
Even worse for hackers, Palm's taking an unusually aggressive approach to webOS system updates -- they're mandatory. According to the support docs, webOS updates are automatically downloaded in the background within two days of being available, and they're required to be installed within a week of the download -- after seven days and four install prompts, the phone will give you a ten-minute countdown and then automatically begin installing the update. Sure, we can understand why Palm would want all of its devices to be updated, and we know that a lot of webOS system foundations are in flux while the Mojo SDK is being finalized, but forced updates seem extremely heavy-handed to us -- it's one thing to try and maintain control over a platform, it's another to keep it with an iron fist. Of course, it's probable that we'll see a hack to bypass all of this extremely soon, so maybe it'll all work itself out, but we'd really like to see Palm develop an official policy friendly towards hacking and homebrew and stick to it -- the Pre and webOS have attracted a lot of talent in the past two weeks, and it'd be a shame to lose it.
[Via PreThinking; thanks, Justin]
Read - Pre Dev Wiki tethering policy
Read - Palm webOS updates support doc
"Gizmodo [substitute 'Engadget' if needed] has blown it out of proportion."
I wonder why?
Sounds exactly like when Apple pulled Nullriver's 'Netshare' iPhone tethering app. And I saw a lot of people hammering Apple as evil. Again, I can only blame the carrier partners. These companies are "tethered" in partnerships and this is (unfortunately) expected. I will say, at least Nullriver was able to sell their iPhone app for about a week. Looks like Palm isn't going to be able to sneak one out for a week under Sprint's watch!
Ouch.
Im sure they can find a way to block updates
the solution is simple, if the hackers already have the whole OS they just have to find the bit that handles automatic updates and remove it.
i wish all the pre homebrewers good luck
Updates within 2 days? Wow, after having to wait weeks for updates for my G-1 that still didn't fix all of the critical bugs, I'd be thrilled to get updates that quick. One update that I am hoping for is for an LED indicator to mysteriously appear so that the phone can visually tell me when a message has been received without having to slide out the keyboard and turn the display on.
Umm... As in, it takes up to two days to download the update that took x days/weeks/months to be released. Not that there will be an update every two days, or that there is an update coming in two days.
Just incase you were confused.
You know you can turn on, and off the display by just touching the power button don't you?
@sacha: Here's what the post said:
"According to the support docs, webOS updates are automatically downloaded in the background within two days of being available"
Here's what I said:
"Updates within 2 days? Wow, after having to wait weeks for updates for my G-1 that still didn't fix all of the critical bugs, I'd be thrilled to get updates that quick."
I know they aren't going to provide updates every 2 days, but Sprint is promising that I will have an upgrade within 2 days of them making it available. I compared that to t-mobile, who took about a month to get the first upgrade to my G-1. I'm not confused at all.
@scrcmedic: I am aware that I can turn off the display by touching the power button, but that's not what I was asking for. On other smartphones, if you happen to miss the audio indication that a message has arrived, the phone will optionally illuminate or flash an LED, to let you know about the msg. with the Pre (that I love), I have to actually check to see if there are any messages waiting, which is not as convenient. And convenience is really what makes us want to buy these things, isn't it?
Yeah but if all the blogs didn't sensationalize the facts, then they wouldn't get enough hits and generate as much revenue.
Ask Sony about how mandatory updates are working for them (PSP games requiring at least a certain version or later).
With this much open access, someone will just have a new firmware build that "skips" it.
Fuck that, use Android.
I don't see the problem here. Non-technical users will actually have their security updates, and hackers will just mod their firmware to disable the forced updates. Sounds awesome to me.
i don't see any of this as a big problem. there will be a hack for tethering if you need it. as far as the mandatory updates, sure why not. they are supposed to improve the phone. if you are hacking your phone then you can re-hack it after the update. and if you don't like to do that then don't hack it in the first place.
if you hack your phone you should be fine with doing it again after the update. why is that you say? it's because you like doing it and if you didn't you wouldn't have done it in the first place.
tethering your phone to your laptop is not real big on everyones list. if it is on your list then pay for the plan. if you don't want to pay for it then hack it. that's the complaint for this right? pay for it or steal it.
i don't think that palm really cares about what you do with their product, but sprint does. just like at&t and verizon do. if you need tethering then get it. it's all about the choice between phone and carrier. it's up to you to make the right choice. it's give and take. you'll get some things from one carrier and phone and lose some things. nothings perfect and when there are 2 companies offering you a product and a service then there will always be complaining.
as far as apps becoming unworkable after the update, guess what? your app will have an update shortly after. everyone that has a computer has updated it. it's a part of technology. if you created an app and i stopped working then you will update it or you will make no more money. it's not like other smartphones don't update there OS.
i'd rather have an update then have to buy another phone to get the features i want.
And this is one of those moments when I must ask: what is wrong with you people?
A company politely asking someone to avoid going into a territory that would bring problems both for them and for the users (since using tethering apps would be against the Sprint contract) is now an aggressive policy? What part of "politely" didn't you get?
They could go aggressive against people trying to crack their OS (it would be totally within their rights), but they not only didn't, but made clear that they are okay with everything being done so far. So why being so sensationalist about this particular detail?
I have no problem with posting your opinions along with the news piece, but would be nice if you could avoid crying wolf while at it.
Palm has always been homebrew friendly. My Treo 600 and 680 have tons of apps that were homebrews. I think palm, out of all of the hardware producers will embrace this group. Having said that, they need to keep the phone companies somewhat happy in regards to the service side of things, but I full suspect that Palm will indeed remain open in the truest sense of the word.
"forced updates seem extremely heavy-handed to us -- it's one thing to try and maintain control over a platform, it's another to keep it with an iron fist."
what a dumb statement. consider the average users of this phone- people that won't ever bother with hacks because they don't know or don't care, so much so they even ignore all update prompts. it's the same mentality as many Windows users I come across (and sorry to say but usually female) that say "oh i just ignore those windows automatic updates - i always click "no" - do i need those?"
if i was running sprint or palm's customer service/tech support lines, i would damn well want forced updates on, exactly for all the people that just click "no" on updates out of laziness/ignorance, and then call in to complain about issues that were addressed in an update.
@Engadget: Can you just turn off comments on any post containing the words iPhone or Pre? They are pretty much useless anyway...
They are very relevant to this post. Engadget is being sensationalist and we the readers are voicing our opinion.
isn't it PALM that does basically a hack to make itunes read the pre as though it were an ipod. here they're upset with what this hacking is doing, what if apple got upset with what palm has done and releases an update to block out there hack.
all this arguing about who's got a better phone just because you want to validate the money you spent. the facts are simple, palm has released a great phone and apple has released 3 great phones (technically 2, yes i know the new one releases june 17). palm has a few apps available and apple has thousands (albeit not all of them are great or good for that matter) either way there are a ton to choose. both have keyboards that suck. i could really keep this going but dont really care to.
in the end this article is dealing with what palm is doing with trying to prevent hacks with mandatory updates. just pack your updates with what the community is really going to want and then mix in the preventative blocks.
Wow, there are SO many Pre apologists/apple haters here. If Apple rolled out mandatory updates this place would be in an uproar!! "I cant believe Apple is so arrogant to force me..." "How dare they choose for me what I can do on my phone" "How do they know what I want" blah blah blah. This is really getting a bit ridiculous. PALM seems it can do no wrong on Engadget, enjoy it while you can they might not be around in a year or 2.
Exactly what I was wondering too..
This is worse than the Safari Software Update thingymabobby. Well. "Worse". Depends how you see it.
i agree with patrick. i don't agree with the author. if the author had any experience with palm and/or understood the relationship between phone manufacturers, phone service providers, and developers then this story would be a different read. the statements made by the author sound more like a whining fanboy than of anyone with real insight as to what's going on.
dear Nilay Patel,
please read this story.
http://www.pcworld.com/article/166686/palm_gets_friendly_with_pre_hackers.html
you talk about developers being discouraged by this and it's the exact opposite. apparently you have never owned a palm device because if you had you would know that palm has always been supportive of developers. it's the service providers that fight this. if you don't like updating things then that means you are still running windows 3x, because you don't like to update the products you own. how stupid. apple has a lot of apps in their app store. before palm webOS came out, how many apps where available for the palm handsets? developers don't run from palm, they are excited to finally get a hold of something new from them because they don't care what you do with there phones. unlike apple. Rim seems pretty good about it to.
Seems to me like your article has more spin and/or is plain wrong. Palm warned that Palm would have to react if hackers did not consent. They did not warn that Sprint would react if hackers did not consent. Palm is caving siding with the people paying their bills rather than the people developing their community - just as engadget is saying.
We don't know yet if Palm will block hacks anyway. Auto updates will be no big deal if they don't block the backdoor hacks. And they may not.
I am just waiting for the day, when unlimited data plan actually MEANS unlimited data plan. If you don't have bandwidth to support unlimited data then don't sell it.
And also I want the phone manufacturer to design my phone and not the carrier.
I don't think that its unreasonable for Palm to request this one issue not be openly discussed when they have made the rest of the phone completely and utterly hackable. They still have to pay lip service to Sprint and I think its noble of both Palm and the maintainers of these sites to come to a gentleman's agreement about a few closed door topics. When carrier exclusivity comes to an end I think that this will be a non-issue and the doors swung wide open but for now they need to tread lightly.
I never understood what the big deal is with tethering. Why is Sprint against this? What does it matter where the data finally ends? Data is data, whether it stops at the phone or a connected comp.
Sprint is against this because they want people to buy modems and pay an extra $60/month for data access for their computers. A computer (or a local network of computers) can suck up a lot more bandwidth than a mobile phone with a small display. EVDO may support up to 2 Mbps, but your phone will rarely be able to saturate that link. A single PC, let alone a bunch of them on a WLAN, can keep that link busy.
I'm sure this is Sprint pressuring Palm to keep people from tethering on the Pre. The big question everybody has when they ask is why...well Sprint is hurting at the moment and they have a cash crunch. So in lieu of network capacity upgrades, Sprint has opted to run the network pretty hot...If Pre users start tethering like crazy...it could cause some substantial network degradation. Otherwise, it wouldn't be a big deal...
at least the updates are free. quit your whining
How much did Chrysler pay for that product placement?
Oh well, this is the news I was waiting for before I bought one. Now I won't.
Why is automatic updates a problem?! It actually keeps people up to date with the latest fixes? Why the heck is this even a problem?
Is it me or did engadget edit the original text of this article, deleting the sentence(s) that actually stated how to get tethering to work (ssh -D 8080 -Ng device-ip)?
If I'm right, it looks like engadget caved to Palm/Sprint too.
why don't palm just sell the pre without telco tie-ups?
$600 pre doesn't sound too bad.
@kjb434:With all offense intended, everything you just said in no way applies to the situation at hand. Its like saying changing the tires on your car is illegal because they are driven on public roads.
If you really want to tether, there are many phones and carriers that do allow it... this is really just another example of haxx0rs doing something just to see if they can, and then pretending to be indignant when the inevitable crackdown occurs. I guess if you find that all entertaining... and the note about "losing all the talent" is laughable. Something tells me their talent could be better used elsewhere.
Though I don't own a Pre (yet), I think automatic updates sound like an excellent idea. They're trying to maintain the stability and security of the platform, and given that it's obviously quite easy to do anything you want on the Pre with some pretty simple hacks, this gives them at least a certain degree of control. I'm sure it won't be hard to find your way around the updates anyway. The only potential downside I see is if the update process gets screwed up, and it automatically installs an update that bricks your phone (or even temporarily disables it)... that would be mighty annoying.
Forced upgrade sounds scary if you are on a 3 week vacation on another continent.. that's going to be a really expensive upgrade - or a dead phone for the rest of vacation?
Ok the fanboys from both camps making iPhone 3GS and Palm Pre sales comparisons go put your comments else where we don't want to hear it here anymore. The iPhone 3GS is the 3rd revision of the iPhone now. Its a excellent phone and has had ages to have all the little omission and faults sorted out. The Palm Pre is also an excellent phone but it along with WebOS are in their first generation. WebOS has some really promising features, singling out the excellent method of handling and organizing multitasking with the cards feature as most outstanding feature. Now WebOS and the Palm Pre are not without fault. Give Palm the chance to make a second and 3rd generation WebOS based phone and WebOS will be even more impressive and refined like the iPhone's OS is now. And yes apple with have something better and greater than the iPhone is now too, but it will be in a market place with serious and mature contenders such as WebOS, Android and so on.
For me at the moment I'm considering the 32Gb iPhone 3G S because it suits my needs and music storage capacity demands. I'm very tempted by the Palm Pre and WebOS, especially for the Qwerty keyboard and multitasking, but I feel it needs time too mature and the capacity is restrictive for me, expandable memory would of been nice. Also not being available in Australia is a bit of a bummer but anyways. And in 2 years time when I need a new phone I'll give serious thought to WebOS and Android.
Also on a side note, leaving the doors more open to developers is better. Allows from great new innovative ideas to be created and apps stores create a new market for entrepreneurs which will help boost the weak global economies currently. Ensuring the apps are stable and don't cause security threats are reasonable requirement for an official app store app. anyways just my 2 cents.
is it just my area or are Pres hard to find everywhere? I didn't think there would be a huge surge of demand so I didn't rush to the stores to check it out but I've been looking around for one for the past week or so and I can't find them in stock anywhere (I've called or checked every best buy, sprint store, and radio shack in my area). I thought I had read that Palm promised a steady stream of deliveries but nobody seems to know when they'll get replenished stock.