The world's two most visually engaging smartphones -- the
iPhone and the
Pre -- share very similar cores based on ARM's Cortex A8 architecture, and with the newer, more advanced Cortex A9 in the pipeline, you can't help but let your mind wander a bit as you envision what twice as much computational power could bring to a handset. The A9 employs more advanced instruction pipelining than its predecessor, but the biggest news has to be the fact that it can pack two or more cores -- and ARM fully expects dual-core A9-based phones to hit in 2010. Of course, power consumption is the biggest constraint when it comes to this category of device, and while the company says that peak drain will exceed that on today's crop of devices, average consumption will actually drop thanks largely to a move from 65nm to 45nm manufacturing processes. Add in
1080p video promised by TI's next-gen OMAP4 silicon wrapped around an A9 core, and you've basically got a home theater in your pocket that's ready to rock for a few hours on a charge. That and Snoop Dogg, of course.
posted Jun 16th 2009 5:31AM
Nice, but unless battery life technology is getting a X2, X4 boost as well, I don't think we should be too excited.
The Pre is already getting unanimous criticism for its shockingly poor battery life.
http://www.chemistrytimes.com/research/Air-fueled_battery_could_last_up_to_10_times_longer.asp
And the iPhone 3GS, which uses the same processor as the Pre, will have better battery life than its slower ARM11 predecessor...
Conclusions? Palm have a bit of work to do on software power optimisation!
Tarex read about nvidia tegra smart phones they play 1080p vidos too
Dual core 2 duo use less power than intel P4 yet its way stronger
More power doesn't mean less battery
@Dr House
Tegra will have a ultra low power GPU in its heart. One of the most exciting things about it. I don't only want a phone that impresses with its visuals and performance, I want one that lasts long enough while doing it.
tegra phones suppose to have 10 days of music playback and 10hours of 1080p playback, thats long enough for me, hell i cant even stay awake for 10 hours a day , and don't worry it will have some Gpu along with it cause ARM alone cant play 1080p that's for sure, even intel mid range desktop struggle with 1080p videos
@DR: The post specifically says that dual-core A9s will use more power than the current A8 chips at peak (although less when idle). Multi-core chips are indeed more efficient, but the reason for that is that two slower chips use less power than one fast one. In this case, they have two faster chips....
Don't really care about smartphones but these should be great for netbooks if combined with an efficient graphics processor on the chip (i.e. finally an ARM netbook that doesn't totally suck performance-wise).
Faster processors = more battery life. This is because the same computational load can be finished more quickly and the processor spends more time in idle states.
Of course, this relies on having well-designed low-power idle states and running the same software on the faster processor (which for the iPhone should be largely accurate. Nobody's going to isolate a 40M install base with software they can't run).
I'm pretty sure those Tegra battery life numbers were in regards to the net/smartbooks running Tegra which obviously have much bigger batteries.
Thought Ars said the A8 was dual-core? Did I read something wrong?
As for the 3GS having better battery life than the 3G, I think we'll need to wait to see on that one.
**** REMEMBER ALL THE BITCHING ABOUT NO 3RD PARTY MULTI-TASKING OR BACKGROUND PROCESSES ON THE IPHONE?
Now you understand why Apple chose the path it did. Look no further than the iPhone 3GS for a successful Cortex-A8 running at 600Mhz with battery life 30-50% GREATER than the older iPhone 3G with ARM11!
also, as to your original point, I'm sure the majority (all?) Cortex-A9 CPUs will only be available at 45nm and lower. This feature size reduction from Cortex-A8 @ 65nm shall greatly attenuate any increased power consumption with dual-cores.
woops, didn't meant to include the spacing and the text down below.. :(
@Dr House
No way those numbers are anywhere near correct. Nvidia's Tegra platform is primarily made for "MIDs" and other devices that aren't cellphones, although they do have lower-clocked units for high-end smartphones. I don't have numbers for the lowest end Tegra GPU, but the higher end ones up to 3-4 watts! Also, Tegra uses 650-750Mhz dual 65nm ARM11 cores.. Those are going to take quite a bit of power to run.
Upside Ya head!
Say snoops upside ya head,
Say snoops upside ya head; say whattt
no one controls Snoop. No one. :)
that's why there's a snoop filter underneath it =)
Wasn't the "A9" name trademarked by Amazon?
When you trademark names, you have to trademark them for something specific. For example, Microsoft might be able to stop you selling a computer operating system called Windows, but they can't stop you selling double-glazing.
ARM's Cortex A9 isn't a consumer brand name - in fact it's one level off being even a business brand name. They are selling a design to manufacturers who will create their own chips based on it, and possibly then give it a fancy name like 'Tegra' or 'Snapdragon'. And even that name's unlikely to feature in anything sold to consumers, where marketing will probably use vague terms like 'twice as fast as the previous model' without mentioning the processor specifically.
So in other words as long as they aren't making a search engine or website or whatever A9 was, they're probably ok.
We've got a highway named A9. Never heard any complaints from Amazon. BTW... Amazon... wasn't there a river Amazon somewhere? Longer than there have been books, IIRC...
@Sam
I know you were only using those names as an example, but Qualcomm's Snapdragon does NOT use Cortex-A8/A9 cores. They are custom cores that implement the ARM v7 instruction set, and are actually quite superior to Cortex with additional technical features and a better architecture for improving performance and battery consumption.
Lolz at the SCU xD
Plus ... add in OLED displays ...
We're talking three months talk time.
I rounded up.
when can i expect to run crysis on my iphone/pre?
Next month!! Crytek is releasing Mini Crysis.
Believe me, when we get Android Eclair with OpenGL ES 2.0 powered by Tegra's ULP GPU, we'll see serious handheld gaming. The power of open source + a proper control scheme (read: keyboard) cannot be underestimated.
Or you could just buy a DS or PSP and get serious handheld gaming anyway.
I hope that isn't a Snoop Dogg Control Unit. He's banned from the UK. :(
That's what the Snoop Filtering Unit is for.
Best reply in the history of replies. Ever.
Guys, just remember that specs by themselves (including CPU clock frequency) usually don't imply anything. It's all about the software optimization and the type of OS used. I've noticed that weaker CPUs (with no GPUs!) have been used in fabulous Symbian products while having a similar performance.
And please don't forget that batteries are getting better but not so quickly. The number one merit should be to have a valid performance (run all titles up to date, multitasking, etc) while having a decent battery duration of at least a couple of days. I wouldn't want a superfast CPU if it was draining my phone's battery so fast it was unpractical.
So those iPhone and Pre tags have exactly what to do with this article?
That these chips will be used in next year's iPhone and Pre updates? Since they'll also be used in next year's Nokia, Blackberry, and every other top-end phone, I agree it's tenuous.
Love that pic :)
Yup, one of the best :)
Pure awesomeness.
-they got two strong arms,
they can help...
LoL - I see what you did there with Country Music and an ARM pun.
Good 'un!!!
Well, looks like I wont be getting a Pre after all.
Bow wow wow yippee yo yippee yay
What the Izzle is dis BIzzle Fizzle??? Ooooh its AM-Dizzle!! oh ok, Fasizzle!!
stfu-izzle?
This is good news for MID's on the lower end. Like Always Innovating's Touch Book. A 9" or 10" tablet with big battery, small, power-sipping dual-core ARM CPU is a dream for me.
yo yo yo
I'm sorry to ave to tell this to you guys, but there is basically no chance of what he says being true. I mean, I've been there. I saw those cortex-A8 spec sheets, read those reports saying we'd see them in smartphones by the end of 07. Didn't happen. Fast forward 1.5 years, and there is exactly 1 A8 phone on the market, with the iphone soon to come.
Want some better eidence? Howabout that the A9 is designed for 45nm. The way things work is that the top of the line foundries are initially used for low volume high-margin products, and only produce arm chips once the pc/server indusrty has largely moved to the next proccess. 45nm is state of the art right now. Intel is switing in 2010, and the rest of the industry is typically a year behind intel in terms of manufacturing. Just by that, we are looking at 2011 at the earliest for bulk manufacturing.
take a look at TI, one of the best gauges in the ARM industry. They just announced the OMAP 4, they're A9 platform, a year ago. The OMAP 3 was announced in 2005, and only started shipping in a real product 10 days ago! they had started sampling mid 2008 for the OMAP 3. Well, it's mid-2009 now, and they haven't even announce a timeframe for sampling.
in short, this guy is full of shit. There is no way, this industry simply does not move that fast, eben though I wish it would. I have been stung by hype before, and I hope to prevent the same fate from befalling others.
Yep, most people don't understand the embedded market pipeline and how much time it takes to go from technology development to a finished cellphone. I believe the Cortex-A8 design was actually completed in 2005 and the Cortex-A9 in 2006.
steps:
ARM core design ----> testing/debugging/validating ----> designing SoC with new ARM core ---> testing/debugging/validating ---> integrating SoC into product PCB with baseband/cellular radio, GPS chip, camera, USB, power unit, etc -> testing/debugging/validating -> Shipping cellphone.