Large Hadron restart delayed again -- you can relax until October

If you were enjoying these warmer months, taking time away from terrestrial black hole spotting due to the continued deactivation of CERN's Large Hadron Collider, feel free to extend those summer vacation plans a little bit. The particle crasher and supposed non-threat to life as we know it was previously set to restart in September after some damage put it on the inactive list many moons ago. Now CERN's Head of Communications, James Gillies, is saying that the restart is likely to be smashed back a few more weeks into October, meaning New Englanders might just get in one more leaf peeping season before all we know is mashed into an incomprehensibly small ball of matter from which nothing can escape -- not even Gundam robots.

[Via MSNBC]

[Atom_Ant @ Jun 22nd 2009 7:36AM]

My money's on the thing FINALLY going live on December 21, 2012.

[Heimbachae @ Jun 22nd 2009 7:40AM]

i'll second that.

[Quantumphysics @ Jun 22nd 2009 7:40AM]

My money is on Earth collapsing into itself like on Star Trek.

[lostmotel @ Jun 22nd 2009 7:42AM]

@Quantumphysics

omg so it's red matter machine... we're doomed

[216 @ Jun 22nd 2009 8:04AM]

U know actually I agree with this. If it turns out that the LHC keeps getting delayed until 2012, it should be banned from being turned on during the ENTIRE YEAR, just for precautionary sake

[Galactor963 @ Jun 22nd 2009 8:28AM]

Haha, you beat me to it. I was just on my way in with "With a final launch planned for December 21, 2012."

[Muhammad-Oli @ Jun 22nd 2009 8:29AM]

Hilarious, I was just coming into the comments section to say that. +1 then, good sir.

[Wwhat @ Jun 22nd 2009 8:30AM]

There's an iphone 4G remote control app planned for it I hear.

[Choco_Taco @ Jun 22nd 2009 8:35AM]

I think the world finally switching polarity will be enough excitement for me. Bring on the Ice age!!!

[G @ Jun 22nd 2009 9:25AM]

That's exactly what i wanted to say


and it's the truth

[sam @ Jun 22nd 2009 10:46AM]

my money's on this thing finally being able to play crysis in 2012.

[Ray @ Jun 22nd 2009 12:24PM]

@ sam

That doesnt even make sense.... yet, i uprated you.

[iRoc @ Jun 22nd 2009 1:57PM]

No it's not the LHC that goes on line on 12/21/2012 it's the extra large hadron collider that is schedualed to go on line in late 2012! Whithehichthey plan to use a stream of quarks to smash things. A stream of quarks at near light speed seems like a galactic laser scalple if you ask me. If it were to cut a small hole in space and time it would stand to reason all matterwould be sucked into eledged hole. Then all that would have to go somewhere hence the big bang theories. It would however explain the uniform background radiation detected throughout the seeable universe. If this were true then it would mean we all get a chance "again" to be first in line for the new iPhone!

No but seriously CERN could very well be at that so smart they push the envelope of knowledge, but also too stupid to see they are playing with fire and everyones lives. With that said there's no reason to worry, because all of existance being sucked into a single point would happen so fast no one would even notice. Execpt for the fact it would take forever! It all depends on what side of the hole you are standing on. So relax we all still have time for at least two new iPhones to be dropped before we all cease to be. Maybe Apple will make one powerful enough that someone can write an App to stitch small tears in space and time! Whom ever that person is better start coding now though!

[Yan @ Jun 22nd 2009 2:42PM]

My thoughts, precisely, upon reading the post.

[qwack @ Jun 22nd 2009 7:35AM]

First to comment!

Last in life :)

[qwack @ Jun 22nd 2009 7:40AM]

Seriously though is this thing even safe?

Or is this the end of the world as we knew it.

[strider_mt2k @ Jun 22nd 2009 7:57AM]

While the "first" thing is extremely lame, and calling one self out for it even more pitiable, it ain't the end of the world. -have some perspective man!

OHHH that SCIENCE thing...we're totally screwed, but think of the front row seats we have to the event horizon of a brand new baby black hole!

(You think other black holes might be the remains of civilizations that screwed up this kind of research?)

Perhaps the black holes we've observed are the grand galactic cautionary tale!


(I'm just kiddin' folks. Nothing like waxing prosaic while you're on vacation.)

[ChrisTheFeral @ Jun 22nd 2009 8:14AM]

The LHC won't suck in Chuck Norris, Chuck Norris will suck in the LHC.

Moreover, did anybody notice that if you misspell Large Hadron Collider, you're left with Large HARD ON Collider?

[ChrisTheFeral @ Jun 22nd 2009 8:18AM]

I meant black hole suck in Chuck Norris, not LHC.

Gah.. fail.

[Wwhat @ Jun 22nd 2009 8:27AM]

Actually they did and are doing more experiments all over the place that have an ever so small change of the destruction of everything, LHC isn't unique in that.

[Tristan @ Jun 22nd 2009 10:40AM]

My theory:

Main worry about the large hadron collider is that it'll create a wormhole big enough to tear through the earth and destroy us.

I think the LHC is going to tear through the earth, the universe, and time, and go boom. - Making it the surprise cause of the big bang that started everything off.

[How_P @ Jul 5th 2009 7:57PM]

There is NOTHING to worry about - the particle collisions that are created within the LHC occur frequently in nature too - even within Earth's atmosphere. All the hype about a 'black hole machine' is just some so called scientists manipulating the media to get their 5 minutes, and of course the media love scaring people with apocalyptic stories.

A few people from my uni won a trip to visit the LHC last week, which I went on - our physics department wrote a newsletter article titled "students win trip to visit black hole machine"... you would have thought they of all people would know better, but it just shows how the media can twist people's views.

[giuliop @ Jun 22nd 2009 11:17AM]

@How_P

LOL at you. They can't even START the frigging thing, how are they supposed to know what happens when they actually start it? If this "simple problem" went unnoticed, how many other unnoticed not-so-simple problems can there be?
Talk about twisted views and washed brains.

[Patriks7 @ Jun 22nd 2009 12:43PM]

So no large hardons until October?

[Josh Warner @ Jun 22nd 2009 2:56PM]

@giuliop

I just can't leave idiotic comments like yours alone without calling them out as the dreck they are. You clearly are completely uninformed and uninterested in becoming so, and this response is more than you deserve, but I'm writing it so the crap you just wrote doesn't spread.

They did start the LHC. One or a few magnets were not designed to take the forces exerted on them, and their coolant systems triggered a failsafe which - operating correctly - shut down the accelerator and the magnets. Getting these repaired and the failsafe's coolant cascade cleaned, then excruciatingly slowly cooling them down to operating temperatures is what has taken so long. I don't yet know the exact reason for the latest delay.

As for the rest of your comment: you're dead wrong. How_P is completely correct. We don't know precisely what will happen when the LHC is operating at full power, but we DO know very well what energies it will be capable of producing. The energies at which the LHC's collisions will occur are significantly below that of highly energetic interstellar particles impacting our atmosphere frequently. If these energies could create anything dangerous such as a black hole, they would have done so countless times in our planet's history. The fact that the Earth itself exists is incontrovertible evidence that the LHC poses vanishingly small danger to the planet.

If you don't have a clue about what you're talking about, don't post. Please.

[HunterXI @ Jun 22nd 2009 4:20PM]

OK, Engadget, stop. Seriously, STOP. It was funny a *year* ago. Now, you sound like a broken record. The science fact on the matter is that the machine poses no threat to us that cosmic rays don't – which, as indicated by the Earth's continuing (4.7 billion year) existence, includes creating a micro black hole. So cease and desist.

[giuliop @ Jun 22nd 2009 4:35PM]

@Josh

"One or a few magnets were not designed to take the forces exerted on them"

And they installed them on purpose?

I see you just sheepishly follow the herd without even trying to understand what I said. The point is not how it is supposed to work. It is how it actually works. Failing to acknowledge that this mistake is just the tip of the iceberg is just obtuse.

[Josh Warner @ Jun 22nd 2009 5:28PM]

@giuliop

Right. They knew it would fail, installed it, and broke the machine. On purpose. Seriously? Do you really believe any of this was done intentionally?

For your edification (since you seem uninterested in looking this up yourself): Fermilab designed and sourced the magnet in question for CERN. The flaw in the design was overlooked for over 4 years, through construction, delivery, and into operation until it failed. Fermilab director Pier Oddone said "In this case we are dumbfounded that we missed some very simple balance of forces."

Embarrassing, definitely. Preventable, possibly through better review in the future. Malicious - not at all, and while the flaw was in the design it went unremarked and unknown until it failed. When it was installed of course it was believed to be fully functional. Only with the benefit of hindsight and an investigation does the sentence of mine you quoted make sense.

Could there be other flaws in different parts? Sure, it's possible. An iceberg's worth as you imply? I seriously doubt it.

"The point is not how it is supposed to work. It is how it actually works."

Just stop posting. You clearly have no idea that in science, theory and experiment are equally important and drive each other. Thank goodness everybody doesn't have your attitude, or we'd probably still think the Earth was the center of the universe. Failure is acceptable and in many cases desirable, since it means the model needs revision. So long as you learn from it, there is nothing wrong with failure.

[VampireHunter Z @ Jun 22nd 2009 5:37PM]

Remember, black holes are the result of a large amount of mass being concentrated into a small space. They are not colliding large enough matter to make space fall in on itself. The behavior of mass doesn't exactly scale judging by Newtonian physics for small bodies versus a huge star exploding. There is nothing to worry about.

[giuliop @ Jun 22nd 2009 8:05PM]

@Josh

"Do you really believe any of this was done intentionally?"

Gosh, could you have said anything dumber? (That is also a rhetorical question. No need to answer.)

"An iceberg's worth as you imply? I seriously doubt it."

And what are you basing your assumption on? Is that your great faith in those scientists that overlooked a quite fundamental flaw in design for 4 years?

"You clearly have no idea that in science, theory and experiment are equally important and drive each other."

I like how you state things but can't take a single step forward on the deduction chain. And what you have overlooked, blinded by your ignorant presumption, is that that's exactly what I said. You don't understand? How strange, I really had no doubt.

[How_P @ Jun 23rd 2009 8:56AM]

Thanks for the support Josh.

giuliop; I suggest you read more about the LHC before making wild coments like you have. Brain washed? Thats a pretty stupid statement, but maybe I'm being paid by CERN to say that and it's all part of a wider conspiracy to destroy the Earth...

Or not. As for not starting it yet, Josh pointed out they already have, but a loose solder conection caused unusually high resistance, leading to the liquid helium coolant expanding and then rupturing a super-conducting magnet. This resulted in a destroyed magnet and displaced several of the magnets linked to it. Trying to fix, align and test this is going to take ages so it's unsurprising it has been delayed again. I can't think of one science project that hasn't encountered problems at some point and with the size and complexity of the LHC it will be years before it can be used to its full potential.

There is a chance that the LHC could produce blackholes, but they would be so small that they would disappear nanoseconds after being created. There's also a chance that one could be created that could grow and destroy the world, but there's also a chance I could cross a road and end up on Mars. There is a far more likely chance that it will change the way we understand physics and lead to new technologies, but unless they try how will we know?

I can only reccomend that you pay a visit to CERN - it's a truly fascinating place and the amount of work that has gone in to making it happen is astonishing. It's just a shame that it is well known for the wrong reasons.

[LondonConsultant @ Jun 22nd 2009 7:38AM]

I'm more worried about the micro black holes allowing aliens from the future to send messages back through time and start messing with our minds.

[Quantumphysics @ Jun 22nd 2009 7:42AM]

Information cannot escape a black hole and furthermore, if you could send messages through a black hole, the TIME distortion alone would ensure you'd never get them.

[LondonConsultant @ Jun 22nd 2009 8:31AM]

Yeah, but what if the aliens from the future used a delayed choice quantum eraser operated by retrocausal psychokinesis enabled by non-abelian Yang-Mills fields at black holes' event horizons?

[benahad @ Jun 22nd 2009 9:26AM]

Even black holes drop calls...

[DorianGray @ Jun 22nd 2009 11:14AM]

@benahad

Black holes are run by AT&T?...

[Joshua Perfrement @ Jun 23rd 2009 5:47AM]

better than telstra

[Excelsium @ Jun 22nd 2009 7:41AM]

So what happens to living beings if they are put inside the LHC during operation?

[lostmotel @ Jun 22nd 2009 7:42AM]

They will die.

[Excelsium @ Jun 22nd 2009 7:46AM]

How will they die, is it a vacuum? what happens if they are put in a pressure suit with air supply?

:).

[lostmotel @ Jun 22nd 2009 7:51AM]

It's because the whole pipe that the particle beam circumnavigates is cooled to 1.7K by liquid helium to keep the superconducting magnets operational. These magnets guide the beam around the tunnel. Basically you'd freeze to death, notwithstanding the fact that a beam of 7TeV protons wouldn't do you much good.

[sam @ Jun 22nd 2009 8:09AM]

@Excelsium: Google found this:

http://www.popsci.com/scitech/article/2008-07/say-im-inside-large-hadron-collider-and-its-revving-should-i-be-concerned

Assuming it's correct, the short answer is if you're just in the tunnel you'll get a mild radiation dose which is ok for a few minutes - so not that exciting.

If you get any important part of your body in the way of the actual beam (somehow - it's sealed in a pipe) then you're probably f***ed, although here's somebody who survived a particle accelerator to the head: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatoli_Bugorski

[liv @ Jun 22nd 2009 9:11AM]

INFUCKINCREDIBLE! He survived a proton beam through his head! OMFG... In Soviet Russia, proton beams tingle our brains... literally...

[Skorski @ Jun 22nd 2009 4:56PM]

Surviving a beam from a particle accelerator isn't anything notable. Go google neutron therapy for cancer treatments, specifically Fermilab if you're interested.

[Stewart @ Jun 22nd 2009 7:44AM]

THANK GOD (/oh wait, never mind)

[webran61 @ Jun 22nd 2009 7:45AM]

"Large Hard-on" is how I initially read the headline...



...I need sex, and soon.

[bighap @ Jun 22nd 2009 7:52AM]

Crazy, I did the exact same thing!

[Excelsium @ Jun 22nd 2009 7:47AM]

your phallus has phailed.

[superhobo @ Jun 22nd 2009 7:59AM]

You'll probably have iPhone 3GSS before it destroys the world.

Well, at least it's an iPhone killer.

[ray k @ Jun 22nd 2009 8:09AM]

in b4 iph....

oh wait... nevermind.