High five,
Tesla fans -- everyone's favorite incredibly controversial electric car company has just been granted $465m in loans from the Department of Energy's Advanced Technology Vehicle Manufacturing program. The bulk of the money will go towards that
postponed Model S factory, while the remaining $100m will be used to fund an electric powertrain manufacturing facility that will sell parts like motors and battery packs to other carmakers. Tesla wasn't the DOE's only big winner: Nissan received $1.6b (billion!) to build batteries and EVs in Tennessee and Ford received an undisclosed amount to build two upcoming electric cars, but since those companies have largely drama-free upper management that isn't
constantly involved in lawsuits, it feels a little more routine. Still, it's an exciting time -- let's hope all these tax dollars turn into affordable, convenient electric transportation sooner rather than later.
Update: A "congressional source" has told the AP that
Ford's getting $5.9 billion, so yeah, the Oval's still the big dog.
Read - Tesla
Read - Ford
Read - Nissan
posted Jun 23rd 2009 2:13PM
how you heat this in winter ?
it is such failed idea as brits plugs
I'll ignore your broken english and assume your asking how the car has a heater. Most electric cars have a simple ceramic heating core hooked up tot 12v. The same type of heater you plug into your wall for your room. It's not rocket science.
How much money will have been given away now? Especially 1.6B to a company that isn't even American...
caramel you obviously failed comprehensive reading tests
it not issue of how (although question begins with that word) but issue of battery which after your "brilliant" invention you can stick up ... you know where
Okay, you clearly can't form proper sentences. But the issue of battery? What are you asking? LiPo4 batteries work fine in the cold, the heater would use up some battery life but not enough to significantly effect range. What are you on about?
Bobby, was I seeing this right? I could have sworn I just saw you dis someone's comprehension abilities, as though your post had established some kind of benchmark of superlative grammatical caliber.
you make my eyes cry.
just why are all the people commenting recently so rude?
What's so stupid about the Brit plugs anyway? It is more widely used than those used in the USA.
yeah right lipo4 now you really do not know what you talk about.
i guess you intend to tap into that money to smoke powder or sth ... that might one explanation of your ignorance
Don't feed the troll guys. His broken English and failure to address responses is painful.
Bobby: Me agree too. Also, how car go broom broom wiv no enjin? dey all stoopid.
$1.6 billion to a company that might not be American but it's going towards building factories on US land to give jobs to US workers. I really hate how people think economies are zero-sum games-there isn't a fixed amount of money in the world!!! Giving them money helps them generate more money for the US economy. Hence the idea behind economic GROWTH-the total amount of money gets larger when you grow your economy.
It's not like a poker game with your buddies where you all brought $20 and the money just changes hands. So if you gave your buddy $20 you wouldn't have money for beer.
Giving this loan is like giving your buddy some tomato seeds (for free) and letting him plant it. You'll end up harvesting a whole sh*tload of tomatoes that all have seeds in them too. And now you both have more tomatoes to eat. That's how economies work guys, you plant the factory and it grows the economy and now there's more economy. A plant needs sunlight and water to make fruit, and the factory needs electricity and steel to make cars. But in the end you get new stuff that didn't' exist before whether it's a tomato or a car, and also tons of jobs with the factory.
This is why it's moronic to whine about Toyota plants in the US, or US companies building plants in China or Chinese companies building plants in the US. ALL of those things are good for the economy because we all get part of the harvest no matter where we plant the seeds. The only thing that's actually bad for the economy is screwing with trade, as long as people are building stuff and we get part of the harvest it's a good thing. Whether we get that part of the harvest by owning the company building a plant in China, or by having a plant built here by a company in China is irrelevant since we still get part of the harvest of growth.
Why is there a picture of a Fisker Karma?
@ MONKEY:
It's the Tesla Model S in the picture, not the Fisker Karma.
Kiss that money goodbye....I'm sure Tesla is having a party tonight.
They will never become a player in the automotive market. This is a complete waste of money. At best, they'll sell off the company to a larger car company who will fumble the technology. And the original owners will walk away gazillionaires.
I want to believe that these money will come with significant strings attached, and will require certain commitments on part of the automakers that will make it hard for them to cut and run... I want to believe it's so, anyway, although I full well may be wrong.
Also, the article says that the loan to Nissan is meant to be used at their Tennessee production facility. Regardless, it's a LOAN, and Nissan is expected to repay it. In any way, I think it better than the gov't giving research grants (as opposed to loans) to Boeing or Lockheed or IBM, who may end up manufacturing and/or R&D-ing the technology and its components in Canada or Singapore.
xcrunk:
you sir, just made me lol.
Gorilla,
These loans have been given out for years under the first Bush, Clinton, second Bush, and now Obama.
Look at how little has been done.
If I'm not mistaken, Daimer (Mercedes-Benz) just recently bough a majority stake in Tesla. And if Chrysler was any indication, if their lack of viability doesn't kill them first, the corporate leech that is Daimler eventually will kill them.
Im with you. I cant see everyone driving a tesla car anytime soon. It seems more like a niche market the company is aiming for after all. Whats the point of funding a company that is only after a niche market in the first place? =P
No, giving billions to Ford is a waste of money. They don't know how to make electric cars. They only know how to destroy them.
hear hear! BigD145 talketh teh truth.
You sir are correct unless Tesla keeps getting 500 million dollar "loans."
For the record Sweden gave Ford a boat load of money and Germany gave a bunch to GM.
Yay!!!!!
More wasted Federal money that my kids will be paying back in the future
Do you know what a loan is? Like a loan you never needed for school. =D
Just because it's called a LOAN doesn't mean it'll be paid back.
"More wasted Federal money that my kids will be paying back in the future"
Precisely my thoughts, only I'd be in that class of "kids" who'll be paying it off.
Well, we can just add it on to our ever growing $11,000,000,000,000.00 nation debt... oh and Thank you President Obama, yes, giving loans to people who don't ask for them and sink their companies all by them selves sounds like a capital idea... oh and um, whens the pay back date for the loans??? Oh yeah I forgot... NEVER. Tax payers can take care of that...
-
C@RL
What future? Your kids will all be killed off by global warming.
Hey At least we wont need heated seats anymore =D
*insert conservative rant here*
Look, I'm not pro-liberal or pro-conservative (probably more on the liberal side of economics but I'm not in support of all things like welfare for the long-term unemployed)... but, this idea has to be better than the aftermath of the Great Depression, where the government merely cut jobs, tightened its belt, and didn't fix the economy till WWII.
"Undisclosed amount"? What the hell? What about government transparency? The nationalizing of the auto industry continues...
Don't complain, comrade. This is the most transparent administration ever.
I know that is true because that is what they said they would be. They wouldn't lie, would they?
Its undisclosed because they dont want the public to see how much money really is being pissed away trying to make detroit the center for automobile innovation that it should have been 10 years ago.
WTF are we giving money to a Japanese based company in Nissan? I see the money being ok to go to Ford and Telsa (CA based company), but Nissan?!?!?! That really pisses me off, STOP supporting these damn Japanese Car companies, they helped in the collapse of Detroit!!!!! Yeah i know Detoit did dig their own grave, but these Japanese car companies didn't help either. When buying a new car, be smart and BUY AMERICAN. Put food back on the plates of hard working Americans. Nothing against the Japanese, but when you live in the US, USA comes first, the world comes 2nd. Help your own people before helping others.
Nissan is using the money to build facilities in the US and employ some of the people who desperately need jobs after GM's collapse.
I think it's more complicated that Japanese vs American. If the condition is that money is to be spent on R&D, construction, and production in USA, I think we're much better off in terms of stimulating local industries and creating/maintaining jobs than, say, just giving money to an All-American Bank Co something.
Besides, Nissan is a subsidiary of a Euro-Japanese Renault-Nissan conglomerate. Just pointing out for the sake of accuracy, although I admit it doesn't address the core of your argument. What's important, however, is that they have three plants in USA. They hire American workers, buy raw materials from American mills, source parts from North American manufacturers, and build engines here.
oi dummy. A, it's a LOAN; and B, Honda Odysseys are made in Ohio while the Ford Flex is made in Ontario. also, Nissan's electric Cube will be assembled in Tennessee. so while i agree with you that buying american cars might make american companies healthier, it doesn't necessarily follow that american workers will automatically be better off.
GM and Chrysler received billions from the government, so I guess it's only fair that Ford gets a handout too. At least Ford will put it to good use!
If I remember correctly, Ford didn't want a handout.
And it's not like the bailed-out companies were just given free money. They gave up serious stake to stay afloat. Whether it was a wise capitalistic investment by the U.S. Government or a socialist endeavor, remains to be seen.
NO, NO, NO, NO!
This is no way shape or form a hand out! Ford is not taking this money to try to make the company viable, they are using it for R&D! I think this is important to differentiate as Chrysler and GM NEED the money because their company is no longer viable, whereas Ford is taking money to help improve current and future technology to better America's needs.
These guys must have donated heavily to Obama during the campaign.
nice ignorant post.
Obama wasn't president in 2007 when this money was approved.
But he is now isn't he?
Learn how the government works buddy, this was signed and passed before he came into office therefore he can't stop it if he wanted to.
He decides who get it.
What you need to learn is he who pays, plays. It's the Chicago way.
its hard to argue with dumb rednecks.
You're both right. Now stop.
A typically bigoted response, but misplaced.
While you sit with your head in the sand, convinced of our leader's infallibility, I choose to see things realistically. The handout of subsidies to large corporate entities is a political decision and has little or nothing to do Obama inc's misguided "greening" of the U.S. It is virtually impossible not to be a politically motivated decision regarding who gets this money. But continue to live in your blissful ignorance.
well senators are pretty easy to bribe just ask the mpaa and riaa :o
ITS ELECTRIC!!! boogie-woogie-woogie!!!
oooo you just made me laugh my good sir
i just had a flash back to roller skating parties as a kid :-)
God what a bunch of idiots.
Here is my point: Electric Car = Crap while the Hydrogen Car (that Obama killed)= Awesome
Why do I say that? Well lets say that you want to go on a road trip. Now when you go on a road trip you will have to stop for 8 hours to fully recharge you car. That is complete rubbish. While with a hydrogen car you could pull over refuel and be on your way just like you do now.
These electric cars have bigger "carbon footprints" than your typical gas burning car. (Your electricity to charge them will typically come from a big evil coal burning power plant.)
Lets look at adding infrastructure for Hydrogen fuel cell vehicles? What would your byproduct and waste be (I will give you a hint... H2O)
In my opinion they are going to kill the honda clarity and this will be a bigger travesty than the original electric car.
Find the episode of Top Gear that did the review of the Tesla (crap) and see that it is a cool one trick pony, but for as real car look at their other review of the Clarity.
You really need to look into the technology before supporting it so blindly.
1: No, electric cars do not have a bigger "carbon footprint" than gasoline, they use the energy much more efficiently than a gas car.
2: Hydrogen is produced using hydrocarbons(mostly from oil) and produces as a side effect(gasp!) CO2. But nice job tracing where the electricity comes from but completely ignoring that we have to get the Hydrogen from somewhere too.
3: Adding a Hydrogen infrastructure across the entire US would be extremely costly and would be pointless until people start buying Hydrogen cars. Of course people probably won't start buying Hydrogen cars until there's Hydrogen refueling stations pretty much everywhere(Catch-22 anyone?)
I'm not saying Hydrogen power is a bad concept, just saying it's not the end-all be-all you're making it sound like it is.
The infrastructure to put make hydrogen a reality in the US is expected to be somewhere around half a trillion dollars. That's just to bring it up to par with what gasoline is doing right now.
Electricity on the other hand is already wide spread and easy to access.
EVs beat Hydrogen FCVs hands down.
Hydrogen cars would be a hazard cause they would crash and explode like a big bomb and kill people and terrorists could use them. :)
Hydrogen is commonly produced by electrolysis, which means separating the H and O molecules in water. It takes three times more electricity to do that than you can get out of the hydrogen fuel cells once it's in the car. So your hydrogen car only gets a third of the way as an electric car while using three times the electricity. On so you're using three times as many fossil fuels for a hydrogen car, which is not helping the CO2 levels. On top of that, when your hydrogen car is running it produces water vapor, which is actually the leading greenhouse gas. So all in all, it's a lot less green than it seems.
The average hydrogen car costs almost a million dollars to produce, which makes them a long way from becoming affordable for most people. While on the other hand, electric cars are already available for as cheap as $30k.
With a hydrogen car you have to build the infrastructure all across the continent before people will buy cars, while electricity is already in everyones homes.
Hydrogen is explosive, LiPo4 batteries are not.
Yes, top gear makes hydrogen sound like a green geeks wet dream, but they really have a long way to go before they can even compete with electric cars.
Right now the ONLY real advantage hydrogen cars have over electric cars is refueling time. And that is rapidly changing. Subaru just started producing its Stella EV, and that car can quick charge to 80% (44 miles) in 15 minutes. It's not about to replace your civic for road trips, but it won't be long before recharging isn't a hassle at all. Investing in hydrogen cars right now is throwing your money away, Even if you're convinced hydrogen is the fuel of the "future" EV's are ready today. Maybe in 15 years hydrogen will be able to compete, but right now it doesn't stand a chance.
Ford is set to receive $5.9 billion: http://www.freep.com/article/20090623/BUSINESS01/90623026/Ford+to+get+$5.9+billion+in+loans+for+fuel+efficient+vehicles+
America! F**k Yeah!
I'll second that:
Americuuhhhh....f**K yeaaah
where the fuck is the money coming from?
Your childrens' bank accounts.
China
It's money that was set aside back in 2007 just for this purpose. This isn't bail out money, nor is it a hand out, its a loan for a particular purpose. This is why GM and Chrysler didn't get any money loaned to them, they need to prove that they are financially strong enough to pay back the loan with whatever they produce with these loans.
Right. It was set aside in 2007 from your children's bank account.
It is a subsidy, pure and simple - and as this administrations favorite pet project, he who pays, gets to play.
taxpayers, silly :-P
It's coming from the same place all our other spending comes from: thin air.
None of this is real money. We're $10 Trillion in debt right now, I think it's safe to say we've stopped counting spends under $1 Billion.
i cant help but find David's comment "China" hilariously funny, sad, yet probably true...
we are fucked
"China" is more true than funny, I'm afraid.
THis is bullshit, make pot legal, provide healthcare from the proceeds and also provide public transportation like it is in the big cities to every nook and corner of the country.
The last thing this country needs is the government controlling yet ANOTHER aspect of our lives. If you want to say "Make pot legal!" and leave it at that, that's one thing, but don't beg the government to legalize something on one hand, and then turn around and control it via taxes with the other.
Remember, the name of the game here is MORE personal freedom, not more government control.
@ hexydes
Wrong. If the government legalized pot, it would only benefit us. Even if the government took taxes, it would be far less cheaper then how much it cost on the street. Then the government would have a huge new revenue of money to put back into things that are being cut right now, like education. I saw legalize pot, tax it, (still making it cheaper) and put the money to good use.
education isn't being cut. It just isn't being increased as fast as they want it to grow. However, In the hope and change world, that is considered a cut.
@TJ
Lets make paper mache legal and tax it. We can all benefit from higher taxes and allowing the government to provide services they think we need. Like they don't waste money at all. Ohh wait I must have missed something from your comments, your not actually aware of what freedom is unless its government approved. Heh, I guess this is how it starts. The idiot masses don't even know what has already been taken from them.
I didn't know ford was planning EV's. Glad to hear that companies are getting help going forward. Even happier that these are proper loans, to good companies, instead of just pouring billions into a failing company.
i agree with the dude...make pot legal
Why don't those asshats in Washington stop spending us into a huge black hole? We don't have the money for this shit nor is it needed!
"The loans are the first from a $25-billion program created in 2007 and authorized by Congress last year." -- source: http://www.freep.com/article/20090623/BUSINESS01/90623026/Ford+to+get+$5.9+billion+in+loans+for+fuel+efficient+vehicles
They prefer to blame obama, cause they are constipated.
No, they blame Obama for not putting a stop to it. It was authorized by the same Democrat-controlled congress that's largely in place now. Isn't learning fun? No one's innocent in this debacle.
Awesome! This is great news. I heard the Tesla was flying off the lot with 1 in every 3 people buying one. Surely the best use of stolen money.
You do realize that before the Tesla was even finalized it has a long waiting list, and that after making and selling 500 cars they still can't produce them fast enough to meet demand. Tesla is a small startup sportscar company. The roadster was never supposed to be as popular as a prius, but considering how new the company is they are doing quite well, and their cars are desirable.
Yeah, their sales figures are astronomical:
"That gives the automaker a total of 170 Roadsters built for the first quarter of 2009 and about 320 altogether, in case you're keeping track."
http://www.autobloggreen.com/tag/sales+figures/
We'll all be driving one, right after we all win the lotto, and right before SkyNet becomes self-aware.
@therealmusashi
Do you not understand the words "small startup company"?
The point of the roadster is that it's a well performing sports car for the rich, to help the company start up. The profits from the roadster are helping form the company and brand, as well as fund the development of the Model S, which while still pricey, is much more affordable and practical than the roadster, and again from the profits of the Model S they can develop more affordable tech and bring the company forward.
That allows the company to grow until they can put enough R&D into the tech so that they can make cars more aimed at the masses, both in terms of price and scale. You can't just start out a company and make a car as successful as the prius.
If Tesla decided to start off making an affordable electric car for everyone, current tech would limit the car to a much shorter range and poor performance, which isn't desirable, so they wouldn't get sales or profits, and wouldn't be able to build up their company.
@ Brian:
But my children ain't got no bank accounts yet!
Profit! 8)
That's right, by the time our kids get a Bank account it will already be around -50,000 and climbing
So much for Hope and Change
Small change required for the title:
"- to be given to CEO's as bonuses'
i hope with that money the automakers can come up with better value and better mileage
anyone know if tx's eestor got any cash?
Ok next time please proof read your writing... I expect that sort of thing from the comments but from the post itself.....
wan't>wasn't?...
companies are have largely drama-free????
makes me think of
all you base are belong to us....
Sorry iI'm not normally the type but I expect better from a professional site even if it is a blog.
iI'm not teh type eithr, so i wan't say noth'n :)
Hopefully that motor/drivetrain facility will be Electric Motors, which is talking about building (well, using) factories in Northern Indiana. God knows we could use it. Almost a 20% unemployment rate...
Good for you. Thanks!
Should have started a failing car company a few years back
You realize these are all loans to car companies that are actually doing well right?
Though to be fair GM got a lot more money than that for being a huge failure.
If only Engadget would give this away...
If you leave this country, its debt does not follow you or your children. If you keep your kids in what you perceive to be an increasingly failing economy, then your the one exposing them to the debt.
But let's ignore that and blame:
A) Obama, but not Bush, because even though this collapse happened at the end of Bush's 8 year term, Obama is now President.
B) The Government, because everything is the government's fault, we have no responsibility.
agree. not to mention that bush spent way more than this on a pointless war (Iraq not Afghanistan(that war was provoked)) that did nothing to further anything(economic growth, etc.).
@ Mark
No you were spot on. Hydrogen is a terrible concept. It is just another fuel they want us to pay for. Electricity is where it's at.
Tesla Model S...So pretty!
Now where did i put that 50 grand?