Talk of a possible Android / Nokia tie-up has been ongoing
since time immemorial, and the latest fuel to the fire comes from the
Guardian which is sourcing "industry insiders" as saying that the world's largest phone manufacturer will reveal an Android-powered touchscreen handset at its Nokia World event this September. Though Nokia itself has never truly ruled out the possibility of working with Open Handset Alliance code, a move into Android right now would truly be an odd one -- granted, the Symbian Foundation is probably on thin ice any way you look at it, but even without
S60 and its successors in the mix in the long term, Nokia still has
Maemo quietly reaching platform maturity in the background with rumors of an imminent
MID / superphone hybrid swirling in recent months. It seems that adopting Android (even if only for a select number of models) would be an admission on Nokia's part that it has failed to be a Maker of Standards, despite its overwhelming size and market position -- not to mention a major bet that it can continue to win customers based on the strength of its hardware alone, since it'd now be working with a common platform adopted by dozens of companies large and small. So, here's the million- (or maybe billion-) dollar question: all things being equal, can Nokia outdo HTC and Samsung on the same platform?
Update: And now the
Nokia spokesman response: "Absolutely no truth to this whatsoever, everyone knows that Symbian is our preferred platform for advanced mobile devices." Yes,
unfortunately / fortunately, we do know that.
posted Jul 5th 2009 9:37PM
TOASTY!
Nokia said "No truth whatsoever" about this:
http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idINL613838520090706?rpc=44
What a surprise. LOL. Wasn't it quite obvious? Maemo is superior to Android in every way.
The absolutely stupidest thing Nokia could do is to make a android phone.
It's about time for N810 upgrade if you look at the previous release dates. So what we will see in september is a N810 followup gadget. Runs on maemo which is more open than android. Probaply has 3G modem and might even be used as a phone.
Is android new winmo? Ten years back there was rumors that Nokia will make winmo phones, and how it was going to push symbian out of market. Never happened.
@Newone
Which are you saying never happened? That nokia never made WinMo phones, or that WinMo never surpassed Symb's market share?
SWEET! But I love my iPhone 3GS.
Sorry to break the news, but your iPhone 3GS has been with 1,000,000+ and that was just in its first weekend.
A box of tissues to your right.
ohhh i see what you did there
http://twitter.com/zpower/status/2490398564
lol.
LMAO @ ^^^
Nokia pursuing another OS, already having Symbian?
Have you used Symbian?
My Touch Pro arrives tomorrow!
It will be my first Smart phone.
I think in the future mobile phones will have options of OS you want preinstalled like PCs and laptops today.
Yes and its heaven on the e71x(S60 3.3), and hell on the n97(s60 5.0). S60 has been getting out of date and i think they are going to have to rewrite an OS like Microsoft is doing with winmo7 and Palm with its webOS or just adopt andriod as the OS for their touchscreen smartphones.
Symbian is synonymous with it's motorized dildo-saddle namesake (sybian). See: Useless (if you're a guy).
It makes sense for Nokia to examine the possibility of using Android but, frankly, I have a hard time believing the veracity of this story. Nokia invested ~$400MM in Symbian only one year ago. If they were to publicize{or even hint} that they were going to use Android before giving the revitalized Symbian a chance to release a modernized OS... it would undermine their investment and deal a serious blow to their current efforts.
"It will be my first Smart phone."
So should we all jump in joy now?
As long as they only have Symbian I will not buy a Nokia. Simple as that. I loved my Psion, but my Symbian phone (UIQ) is crashing constantly. S60 is even worse with its horrible touch screen interface. Unless they seriously rewrite Symbian they will never be able to compete with the iPhone, Pre, Android, Blackberry or even WinMo and seriously run into trouble. I'd give up on Symbian.
@kada
Actually outside the US Nokia dominate the other manufacturers. I think you need to rethink who is competing with whom.
that absolutely should be the android on nokia logo! thats brilliant!
looks more like the android bot is shocked
can you say christmas in september!!???
"Chrismas in september" easy:P
Booyah.
NOKLA!
That NokiAndroid logo is freakin' sweet
Huh? What's going to happen with S60 if the owner itself is looking into another platform? That's like saying to customers that they are not confident about their own OS (S60).
On the other hand, it's good that Android is getting more traction.
I kinda think of Nokia as being the opposite to Apple where its strength lies in its hardware more so than its software. To that end, I don't think it would hurt Nokia at all to make Android devices. S60 touch apparently still has a bit more to go, why not ride the Android wave?
I'm not saying it's bad that Nokia did this, but what does this tell S60 developers? S60 is done for.
How?
If they can get it to dual boot with S60, then both are saved.
Even dual-booting with S60 sends a bad message. Like it or not, S60 is an established platform with tons of developers. Expressing a loss of confidence in the platform by the lead manufacturer of phones for the OS is not a good thing.
I suppose they could provide a way to run S60 apps under Maemo (like Apple's MacOS Classic environment). Do it right, and it could be just as fast as running natively on the same hardware.
Doubt it would happen, to be honest.
It actually would not be hard to outdo what HTC and Samsung have done
hopefully they decide to also port over N-Gage to Android
It's definitely not hard to outdo Samsung since they didn't really do much with the Galaxy software-wise. Don't know about outdoing HTC because their Hero looks amazing.
N-Gage is the worst thing out of Nokia ever. All it has are recycled java and symbian games that are a couple of years old. They just take them out of the trash, clean them up a bit and try to sell them.
This is what they need, because lets be honest, they suck at software. Hardware and design is over all great from nokia. I still have old nokia phones that work and hold a 3 day charge from before the time of color screen phones.
So the phones are good, the software not so good. Android will really fix all that is hurting them
So a phone company is making a phone?
Wow this is REAL news !!
...why do you even come here nonetheless feel the need to comment?
Did i hurt your feelings?
I guess the fact that nokia is making phones wasnt news to me,
but hey, not all of us are as unintelligent as you i suppose.
@Erik
You know what's a great way to cover up stupidity? Random insults. Works every time.
Yup im stupid for pointing out the truth :D
haha you two must not have a life.
^^he says while hovering over his email account awaiting that reply so he can blast another response immediately...
So a gadget blog is blogging on gadgets?
Wow this is REAL news !!
I bet if it was Apple making an iPod you'd be all over it :|
Go lie down kid.
I think when you plot the lines and try to see where they hit, Nokia has accepted that Apple beat them to the touchscreen phone OS stage of the race. But, Nokia has set their sights on taking the MID + Smartphone + laptop functionality device. Look at the deal with intel, this current bit of news, the maemo platform. Nokia wants to make a phone that can truly replace a netbook and be all that a road warrior needs. Imagine a flip open phone that is all touch screen display that allows for a pocketable 7" screen. One could honestly do alot of what gets done on netbooks on such a device. Especially when you consider we're likely going to have 2ghz phones within 2 years from now.
Oh hell no. People can touch-type on a netbook - I'd like to see you write out a long email on an N97.
Fact is, the real money is on divergence devices. It's why netbooks are so popular - one, cheap device that can do exactly what it's marketed to do, and well. Not some big, heavy machne that can do everything.
I have a Nokia 3120 classic that I use just for calls - it works well at that. I use an old Palm Pilot, just for PDA stuff - it works well at that. I use a Tablet PC for my note taking and computing needs on the go - it works VERY well at that. The Nokia is about as thin and much lighter than the iPhone and still feels sturdy, and disappears in my pocket. My Palm doesn't have any shitty "slide to unlock" UI elements - I just get into exactly what I need. Both of these devices disappear into my pockets along with my keys and wallet, both of which are about the same size but thicker. And my Tablet PC just slings over my shoulder with all-day battery life, ready for anything.
Divergence is key - by carrying more stuff yet not having to fumble with anything, I can do more stuff, better. An iPhone cannot do anything as well (the ringer is MUCH too soft, so yes even for calls it's worse - much less appointments, what good is it keeping track of my schedule if it can't notify me? The Palm forces me to keep up-to-date and pay attention instead of relying on a useless feature).
wickedpheonix:
"Divergence is key", is an old-fashioned way of thinking. The new and soon-to-be-released generation of phones truly do almost everything well -- and do it in a light, easy-to-handle package too. At one time, a simple phone was just a phone... and a Palm Pilot was the best organizer... and a tablet or laptop was the most convenient means to the internet... and a standalone GPS was the only way to get directions... but this has already changed.
Can you really pick up a Nokia N97, an iPhone or an HTC Touch Pro and not tell me "convergence is key"? These devices already do many things well and meet or even surpass the functionality of some of the gadgets you mention{although a phone's small screen will never replace a laptop/tablet/netbook screen}.
I'm laghing at you, wickedpheonix. You have an ancient, albeit terrific at the time, Nokia, a Palm Pilot, keys, wallet, and a man purse slung over your shoulder. I'm sure you're buldging everywhere but where it counts. Do you also have a multi-tool strapped to your belt. Get with the times dude, one device.
I'd be happy with an E90 running Android.
Oh boy, Oh boy, Oh boy! N97 with Android, Sense UI, and Nokia E-series business features would be the death of all other phones.
It wouldnt have Sense UI unless they somehow got HTC to license it to them because it was developed by HTC themselves but im sure they can develop something similar to it for their android phones. Other than that i think android would be a huge improvement for the n97 and phones like it over s60, although i would still prefer s60 3.xx on non touchscreen nokia phones.
I have an e71. I love the form factor and the functionality, but hate the UI.
I would love an Android version of this phone, I might even line up for it.
GAH DAMN!!!
Alas, poor S60 fanboys.
BEST.LOGO.EVER.
Idk, I gotta say http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2008/07/10/anaylst-says-motorola-would-be-lucky-to-get-500-million/ and http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2008/11/02/motorola-to-layoff-3-000-employees-most-of-em-in-handset-divis/ are pretty strong contenders. LOL
wow now thats something am looking foward to
This is an embarassment. Nokia just opened their app store for Symbian and their doing this? It's a slap in the face to all Symbian users and Nokia is admitting there is no future with it. Nokia and Android is a good match but this past couple of years is just bad business by Nokia.
Sorry engadget, as an employee of Nokia, I can tell for 100% sure that Nokia is not interested in Symbian, and won't use any other os than Symbian. However if we'd ever pick another OS we would go for WM.
Android, for us, Nokia, is still way too basic and not even qualitative enough to be equiped on our phones.
I bet you wish you could edit your typo by saying "Nokia is not interested in Symbian, and won't use any other OS than Symbian..."
And how high and low are you on Nokia's chain? Meh, you probably don't even work for them.
And that's exactly the problem. Nokia doesn't concentrate on maximum usability and user interface (for the non-engineers, that is) but maximum features. Face it: S60 has horrible usability compared to iPhone OS, Android or even WinMo. The features look nice on paper but what's the use when they're a pain in the butt to use and full of stupid usability issues and cluttered with unnecessary options, preferences and other UI elements?
Besides, anyone who likes to torture himself enough to develop for Symbian deserves a big slap in the face. I tried and I couldn't do it, it's just too horrible. Once something works on one device it fails on another. And you need to do these fixes and workarounds A LOT. The objective C and all the APIs in iPhone makes so much more sense and it's a joy to develop when you don't need 10 workarounds just to make a simple app functional on (almost) every S60 phone... Haven't tried Android yet but it can't be as bad as Symbian.
The winning choices would be Android OR one single unified Symbian for every Nokia phone (like Android or iPhone OS) with completely new user interface designed from scratch by somebody other than an engineer from Espoo - they obviously have no clue how to do things easy and comfortable. iPhone made huge success with relatively minimum features - that's the power of good user interface. And I'm sure Android will follow, leaving Nokia even more behind. The only useful usability feature in modern S60 phones compared to my 2003 N-Gage is the active standby. ONE noticeable usability feature in 6 years? Pathetic.
There's a problem with Finnish mentality; often once something is decided then it's decided and the plans never change. Nokia decided to use Symbian and they refuse to even think of alternatives because they made the decision and in Finland a decision holds, no matter if it's a good one or not.
I think this is just a load of BS. Although Nokia seriously needs to rethink UI design. The s60 platform needs a new pair of clothes.
Face it, if it wasn't for apple, we'd all still be using tiny flip phones with crap function at a high price.... *Razors* It's about time a real cell company got off their butts and made something useful. Nokia, dell, Mapple, sammy i don't care who does it, lets just get more and better touch products happening!
=\
I'm guessing you're an American. The iPhone might have been a huge revelation for you about what phones are capable of, but all they did was put a nice UI on what phones all over the world have been doing for years. Nokia has been selling smartphones with all of those capabilities for years. Their touchscreen phones so far have been lacking refinement, but in terms of functionality, Apple is still catching up to most major manufacturers, Nokia included.
Hard to believe Nokia would give up their Sambian OS. Perhaps, they are admitting they are losing battle against iPhone and Blackberry?
OMG YESSS!!!!!
I REALLY doubt this will happen - possible they are experimenting with the software but nothing else - seriously Symbian foundation hasn't even put out it's first release yet s60 and al versions of symbian out now were developed PRE symbian foundation... they already said this month they are dumping s60 anyway for a new stack to run on symbian kernal and it won't be out till next year... only then will anyone know if symbian foundation is a failure or not...
and if nokia is dumping all their other os's then why all the recent major developments with intel and maemo?
Nokia is NOT a leading software company. If you can't compete with Google, Apple and Microsoft, why not join them?
Oh Nokia...what are we going to do with you!
These discussions about which OS is better are quite amusing. Has anybody here actually done embedded development to make an informed opinion on which os is better? Do you actually know what makes up an OS for a device like this? How about actually understanding why an iPhone can't transfer WIFI and 3G data while you talk at the same time?
I didn't think so.
Symbian OS 9 is a very mature platform. Maturity is good in an OS. OSX is a very mature platform also. Andriod on the other hand is brand new, unproven toy. How many handsets are out there right now? Two, maybe three. How many of those were big commercial success stories? None.
arfbarf:
What's so amusing? Does one really need to understand the inner-workings of an operating system in order to critique it? I don't think so. I'm a software engineer but it doesn't make my opinion more valid than someone who has never written a line of code. I could actually make a good argument that their opinion is more valid than ours.
You're right: Symbian is a mature OS. In fact, I like it and have used it every day for the last year{I'm American and only discovered it fairly recently, as there is little exposure to it here}. It offers greatly functionality and is very stable too. But, honestly, the user interface is horrendous. It really is.
Have you operated an iPhone, Palm Pre or even an HTC G1? The GUI's on these phones are vastly superior to S60 in every way. It really pains me to say that too as I have a distaste for anything Apple{but I'll leave that for another time...}.
Good keyboard, 1/8 inch jack, huge battery (2500 MAh!), Android...
That's what phone power users need!
Nokia are you listening?
I'm going to bet that 90% of the comments here have been made by Americans who have, at best, limited exposure to S60 phones. S60 is a bit clunky and needs a refresh but nobody really cares that much - it's still reasonably intuitive and functional which is why S60 phones still dominate the market everywhere except the US and Japan.
And, Chris: as for Nokia not creating markets the current 40% or so market share would kind of disagree with you.
And Nokia have just released a statement saying this is indeed bullshit.
"I'm going to bet that 90% of the comments here have been made by Americans who have, at best, limited exposure to S60 phones. S60 is a bit clunky and needs a refresh but nobody really cares that much - it's still reasonably intuitive and functional which is why S60 phones still dominate the market everywhere except the US and Japan."
Mark, I agree with you but why must we make excuses for S60's shortcomings? It's reasonably intuitive and functional but it's not nearly as intuitive as some of the more modern mobile operating systems like iPhone, WebOS and, to a lesser extent, Android{though it likely will improve quickly}.
Oh I know but it depends on your perspective - if you're new to S60 you're not going to find it to easy. However, as most of the phone buying public in Europe and Asia have been using Nokia dumbphones S40 feature phones and S60 smartphones for over a decade it's not a new experience to them.
I think S60v5 needs an overhaul - the double/single tap thing is, frankly, annoying and they need to give more thought to how it holds together - the settings/profile menus are still unintuitive and need work for example. That said, it's hardly a disaster and takes about fifteen minutes to work out which, given you're going to have the phone for over a year, isn't much.
Is the iPhone and the Hero's UI better? Unquestionably. Does it really matter to the phone buying public? Not really.
pretty sure the guardian author is confused between android and maemo...
Two Words : Bull Shit
My source tells me that Apple is dropping OSXMobile and using Android for the next iPhone! please believe it.
Better yet, next iPhone will have WinMo 7
Not going to happen. S60 is going to die, that's for sure but S60 is not the same as Symbian. It's just old UI for it. I'm really excited about QT for Symbian and Maemo Harmattan.
this announce is very strange. Nokia has already Symbian, Maemo, Moblin (with Intel) and now Android. I think they don't know where they want to go.
As already said before, Nokia had to work on his UI. When you've used an iPhone, it's impossible to come back on S60. this platform is so awful, complicated with sub-menu everywhère. wake up nokia.
thats great..me also want one too...........
I've been waiting for this information. Nokia has two options developing something new, spending a lot of money or joining Android. I hope they will use Android but without all that Google spy software.
As I said earlier it's BS.
Nokia just denied this rumour here : http://www.mobinaute.com/286442-nokia-preparerait-sortie-premier-smartphone-android.html
(sorry it's in french)
Here's the Official word from Nokia's HQ on Reuters : http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idUSL613838520090706
best.logo.ever
Back in October sadly I ditched my N95. I miss the camera, I miss S60. I miss my sling player on it. What I don't miss is the lack of 3G....and that's T-Mobile US 3G I'm talking about. Nokia became a bitch of at&t and then Rogers and has not released a single N-series phone for AWS frequency. They should stop crying about the lack of market share in the US if they refuse to make their devices compatible with the magenta. I made a leap to Android. While the 1st release was well.. a beta, the update to Cupcake fixed a lot of issues and I see a great potential in the software. Some time ago I posted a comment on techTi.me about Nokia and Android. Android is free, flexible and therefore Nokia could make the OS its own bitch (sorry for my expressions)... Nokia has their OVI services...the only thing that would need porting would be Nokia Maps. Otherwise Android's Gmail... replace with Ovi Mail. Picasa with Ovi Share. Gmail contact integration - well Ovi has that too. So basically it cold be called Nokia A97, Nokia A63 etc etc. While I like S60 a lot (Version 3 that is) I think Nokia has lost already by buying its bits and pieces back, which were scattered all over the world. If it's turned over to Symbian foundation, how will Nokia make a profit off of it??? The system is free. Unless they plan kick back to operators around the world that will buy Nokia's devices with Symbian instead... So Orange, would you like to buy an ayFone for a low low price of EUR 250.00 per piece or Nokia N99 for EUR 150 because it has S60 on it???
Nokia is like soccer :loved in all the world but USA.
I've never seen anyone sum that up so perfectly. Nicely done.
I usually compare them to Toyota, kind of boring, but their products do everything you'd need them to and they are completely reliable. I seriously doubt most of the people commenting here have used anything but the cheapo Nokias they sell as pay-as-you-go phones for $50 including a bunch of airtime. Continuing the Toyota analogy, it's like talking bad about a Supra when all you've driven is a beat up Tercel.
I have never understood what the BFD about Android was. I used a G1 briefly, and while it was a pretty cool, and despite some peoples opinions, I thought the multiple input methods were a great idea, but I would never use T-mobile here in Tampa, because their 3g doesn't cover many areas (my home, my office). Everyone raves over it, and companies claim "android product in X formfactor is in the works" then nothing ever surfaces. Hopefully this will change soon.
I had a 3G Iphone about a week after they came out. I used it for about 2 weeks, then got bored of the plethora of useless apps in the app store (who cares if you have 50,000 apps, if all I want to do is tether), 3d gaming on a device with no hardkeys... uh thanks but no thanks. So I jail broke it and DLd PDAnet and found that you could get some pretty killer tether speeds! But alas, the lack of MMS was really starting to burn me, as my GF kept wanting to picture message me while she traveled, and the "check this link via the web to view picture" action was killing me.
So, I went on Amazon and bought a 5800 express music. For what it's worth, for my demographic (mid 20's, tech savvy, in an office environment) s60 has been a dream. Yes the UI is drab I will be the first to admit that, it's like a giant maze of menus. However, I discovered that symbian has such a wealth of useful apps available, I was able to do whatever I wanted with the phone, Tether, MMS, Video message, video conference, skype, ect. I was able to download bittorrents right from the phone lol! That is unreal. I tether every single day on the way too and from work (unlimited HSDPA company data ftw)
I would hate to give up all the development and applications that have been created so far to move platforms to android. I have always been a function over form kind of person and I think s60 represents that to the extreme. For the average phone user in America, I think s60 is beyond their technical abilities or they may just not desire their phone to do anything but what the I phone offers. That is Apples biggest strength, not bringing the most to the table, but what they do offer is presented well, and the UI is slick.
These things mean nothing to me, but I do believe if Nokia want's to capture more market share, they need to take all the good thing's S60 offers and give it a face lift/stream line for people who just want a phone that makes calls and plays music. The current (giant system of menu's) is spartan at best.
You obviously haven't seen a recent iPhone. There are hundreds of excellent Apps available, you just have to know where to look. After spending years in the Windows mobile world with crap software, there is no comparison. Yes, there are thousands of crappy developers putting out junk for the iPhone, but the good applications are the best on a mobile device available, period. Good apps on the iPhone are faster, more advanced, more full-featured, and have far better user interfaces than applications on Windows mobile, Symbian, and especially blackberry.
Except Gravity. Oh and Ovi Maps. And Trapster.
They need to dump that POS Symbian for higher end phones and modify Maemo for phone usage. They can then standardize all their smartphone type devices onto a modern platform.
Except that the people they are targeting (Tech savvy business users, power users, Non-USA customers who prefer function over form) enjoy everything symbian brings to the table.
There's a reason why were buying phones with a UI that looks like it's from the year 2000, because it's a great workhorse. They come loaded with all of the basic features we need (tether, video conference, skype, MMS) they offer them unlocked for a reasonable price (most corporate accounts don't allow contract phones to be added to their network).
Obviously S60 wouldn't be my first choice if I was a standard consumer user (Probably would get an I-phone 3GS or reactivate my 3G). But until someone releases a phone that has all of the basic's covered, and a pretty UI, Nokia is still going to dominate global mobile phone sales at least in their strength sectors listed above.
So basically you end up stuck, you either get all the tools you need, with a pretty clunky UI, or you pick up something with a great UI (Pre, I-phone) but have to add other hardware to compensate for their lack of basic functionality.
That is why Symbian will probably never get the UI refresh it needs, Nokia knows it has most the worlds business travels by the sack.