It's not the fabled
GSM Pre, but PreCentral forum member Cleanser has apparently managed to unlock his Pre's CDMA radio and get voice and SMS service on Verizon -- data's still a no-go, but he's working on it. Other devices have been flashed between the networks for years, so we've no doubt that this is possible, but we doubt it'll ever be super-easy -- according to Cleanser, the hardest part was getting someone to add his device's MEID to the system, and that's always gonna be tough, regardless of VZW's big talk about
open network access. Still, it's heartening to see a webOS device on another carrier -- Palm, you want to maybe
do this up official sometime? Video after the break.
[Via
PreCentral]
posted Jul 10th 2009 11:55AM
Verizon? Ew
Fact - http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/5167/factbest3g.gif
I for one enjoy my Verizon service out here in New Orleans and my $49.99 unlimited minutes/data/text plan on my Blackberry.
?
best carrier I've had. and I've had them all
that's what she said.
I coudn't agree more.
Wait a minute.....!?
Yeah, it sucks having good service everywhere..
Crappy store personnel, great service otherwise.
ignorance ew
No blurrycam comment? What's wrong with you, engadget?
This never ceases to amaze me.
"I can spend countless hours hacking a device to run on another network, but I'll be damned if I can take 30 seconds to properly focus the camera on the device."
Bleh I replied to the wrong comment. I might as well run with it and say that those results were concluded BEFORE Verizon aquired Alltel/US Cellular.
But without a doubt I'd go Verizon if I was (and am) a traveling business man, but were I just a local user Sprint would be my best bet thanks to all the cool phones/features/cheap plans. AT&T would be a desperation choice if I somehow managed to live in the middle of nowhere with them as my only local provider.
How do you get that plan for $50?
A special unlimited plan they ran for a short while to push their blackberries when they first came to verizon. So long as I keep my plan paid I keep the contract. And people say cell contracts are bad.
That video does not prove anything. Maybe the hack was just to change the Sprint icon to a Verizon icon.
You are correct about the "take 30 seconds to focus the camera". If you watch the video, the door handle is always in focus. That guy has to learn something about minimum focal length about his video cam.
@kc: turn your speakers on, it clearly says 'verizon wireless', and you can hear it programming the phone.
I'd bet the lack of focusing was the combination of two things: using a crappy point-and-shoot that doesn't focus up close, and using a camera with a tiny screen so you can't tell if it's in focus while you're filming it.
Verizon? Ew
Stupid messed up comment system...
That's OK. A good comment deserves a double-post.
Just click once, one problem solved...
Never really liked Verizon either, but they do have the largest number of customers and the most ubiquitous network in the US. The Pre would have sold much better had it been released on Verizon first.
Glad to see this happening, get the data going and we'll talk, webos and verizons network could be a big win
So when exactly is VZW going to open up their network to allow exactly this to happen?
holy SHINTO!!!
Yeah, having the best coverage in the US is so ew.
brainwash much? Verizon has LOTS of dead spots in Las Vegas, call them about it, and they say keep driving, you'll get to a better spot - with some pompous ass attitude. I hate Verizon, and all their slow ass data networks here, and as well, as all their customer service folks who I am very nice to and seem to have some high horse attitude when anyone calls in and says something isn't working right. I got rid of that piece of shit storm and the worse cell company in the USA, Verizon after my 2 weeks of hell.
Every network has it's weaknesses over in Colorado Verizon and Sprint are pretty much everywhere but T-Mobile and AT&T have issues so it's all on location. Not every company has the best coverage everywhere...
how does that pic prove that its running on VZW?
the read link is your friend
Verizon eww indeed, but this may lead to esn swapping which may lead to getting it on Sprint w/o the everything plan... SERO 4tw?
I'm sure while that might work for a while, they'd catch on pretty quickly.
Isn't ESN swapping very illegal?
If this is possible with the Palm Pre why isn't there more news of the iPhone running on Verizon?
Or did I just miss this when the iPhone first came out?
Verizon uses CDMA, and the Pre is a CDMA (and GSM, but that doesn't matter) device. The iPhone is GSM, which means it can't work on Verizon's network.
Pre is a CDMA2000 phone, the iPhone is a GSM phone. So it's very difficult to move the iPhone over to Verizon (which uses CDMA2000) than the Pre.
Are you serial?
Or maybe you have no idea how basic cellular technology works, since Sprint and Verizon use CDMA and ATT and T-Moblie (and most of the rest of the world) use GSM, there're it's technically impossible to use the iPhone on Sprint or Verizon.
Can't is a little strong. 3G GSM is CDMA and the iPhone does that, and in fact the iPhone is sold in Japan for use on CDMA networks.
So if you had unlimited access to the iPhone, you maybe could program it to run on Verizon's network. But as a hacker, your ability to modify the behavior is a bit more limited.
@why not the LS2LS7?
Same technology does not mean same frequencies.
W-CDMA exists in Japan, also known as 3G which is a GSM only thing. There are no known CDMA iPhone in existence. Won't be until Verizon starts doing LTE probably. The Japanese iPhone takes a SIM card, last I checked the ESN/MEID of a phone doesn't reside on a SIM ;)
@whynot,
W-CDMA ≠ CDMA
Verizon = CDMA
iPhone = GSM
@Ron
Exactly! Verizon will not see any type of iPhone until LTE (4G). And I (not to brag or anything) am probably one of the most qualified to prevent Verizon from LOOSING MILLIONS in equipment gray/black-market reselling when they transition to a device detached SIM subscription model (which is something they have NO experience with). Aye yo Ivan, hit me on the cell ;^)...
Ron:
Actually, W-CDMA is CDMA. You're trying to say W-CDMA != CDMA2000. That is indeed true. That's why I said with unlimited access, you probably could make it work, but hackers cannot. It would take some significant reprogramming of the baseband, to say the least. And the existence of the SIM slot in the iPhone doesn't mean the baseband requires a SIM to operate. It's just programmed to use it normally. There are plenty of combination CDMA2000 and GSM phones on Verizon (Blackberries), so technologically the iPhone may not be far off. No one on here can say it is impossible, just that we'll never see hackers able to make it work.
spook:
The frequencies are not a problem. Verizon only uses 850MHZ and 1900MHz, which are both supported by the iPhone (as AT&T uses them also).
Strike that last probably I put in there, I should have typed maybe.
@whynot Never said GSM *requires* a SIM card, just one of the main ways those without knowledge distinguish the two (I myself have a few phones/devices that have no SIM card slot). W-CDMA is so far off the CDMA2000 spec that it actually does fall in the GSM arena (more specifically, the 3G thats used by GSM operators). Sure, with a buttload of baseband hacking anything is possible, but really...with everything else that goes into making a phone work with another carrier/service type, why not just wait? Verizon can easily block the phone without even lifting a finger.
And FYI, the "global" Blackberries that Verizon sells have two chipsets--GSM and CDMA. It also has a SIM card slot!
@why not the LS2LS7?
The radio transport having the acronym W-CDMA in it means nothing over the fact that it stands for "Wideband-Code Division Multiple Access"
W-CDMA does not understand standard CDMA and vice-versa, no amount of programming access to a device will change that. Both are forms of the CDMA protocol, yes, but that's where the similarities end. Even to rip out the UMTS (GSM+HSPA) chipset and insert a 1XRTT/EVDO chipset, any network the device would try to communicate with would just ignore the device as the handshaking and various broadcasting "languages" are handled by different radio controllers. Normal CDMA towers just don't speak W-CDMA.
The Combo blackberries on the CDMA carriers have 2 very different chipsets in them, 1 for 1XRTT/EVDO and one for GSM/EDGE (or in some cases UMTS), each with their own radios that broadcast over their respective air interface protocols. Each chipset does not know how to communicate with the other's radio controller.
Let's say by some miracle you were able to alter the firmware of a chipset to be able to communicate with the other radio controller. That doesn't get you anything as then the network you're trying to connect to doesn't speak the language your device is trying to talk to it with, and the tower wouldn't recognize your device or hand it off to anything else if it could as it wouldn't know where to send it. On large cell towers that have a multitude of antennas and handle multiple carriers, those towers have different sets of co-located cellular equipment built to talk to their own carrier's networks. The different carriers' antennas on that tower don't know the other equipment even exists.
I'm calling BS on this, the video precentral has, the person never demonstrates voice or text. Only a so-called programming is shown.
I don't see whats the hurry of paying $50 more a month for a similar plan on Verizon when Sprint gives me everything under the sun for $99. Even free Telenav GPS which ATT just released for their iphone and are charging an additional $9.99 to their already hideously expensive plans. Sprint has great coverage and awesome data speeds. Also, the most dependable data network :)
http://palmwebosblog.com/palm-pre/sprint-named-most-reliable-network-in-pc-worlds-3g-comparison-tests/
But to each their own.
If Only Sprint (When It Was Still Sprint Pcs) Had Stayed GSM. Does Anyone Else Remember When They First Came Out With Wireless Sprint Was GSM For A VERY Short Time. Sorry About The Caps But Am Typing This In T9.
Must have been brief. Back in 98 or so, it was CDMA...going along with that crystal clear pin drop talking campaign. Sprint PCS was new to Indy when I jumped on (then later went to Tmob).
I'm of the opinion though that Homeland Security goofed big time after 9/11 in NOT forcing all networks to use GSM, and then take over the towers or handle control in a fashion similar to the current internet structure. Aside from the big brother evil aspects, the good uses would include cell tower specific weather and amber alerts that could be texted out to anyone in that area. You also wouldn't need 4 towers in one location for the 4 major carriers, just a beefier network and more towers, but definitely nowhere near 4x as many. There's just too much needless overlap and waste
One network would mean you shop for a phone, then find a carrier for service, unlike the messed up system we have today. But it sure is great for business, locking you in by phone more or less.
Kumar:
Requiring GSM would have stifled innovation for starters. CDMA is better than TDMA (which was used in GSM 1G and 2G), especially when it comes to adding more towers (which you speak of).
And the stuff you list about sending information from towers is not tied to GSM in any way. The signalling system in no way determines what data can be sent over it.
Sprint was CDMA before they went nationwide, maybe people in some regions had GSM Sprint before the nationwide rollout.
The reason we select phones and networks has nothing to do with technology. It's because of the business models the providers have chosen. Parts of Europe are switching to the US model (exclusive phones) right now, by the way (which sucks) and it isn't because they suddenly adopted CDMA2000. It's because of the iPhone and other smartphones and the perceived advantage the carriers see to being the only ones who offer a particular phone.
You are seriously mistaken, Sprint was never GSM, in fact, I have an old Sprint PDA phone from when Sprint was Sprint PCS (http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=PDA2032SP-N). It clearly shows CDMA on the back of the phone. Sprint has always had a CDMA/GSM world travel ready device, today Sprint only have a couple devices. Here is a list of all the old CDMA devices: http://www.sprint.com/business/resources/schedule/pdf/pcs_handsets.pdf That was during PCS.
What the hell was the point of it?
This is why I will never use or recommend Verizon. I shouldn't have to beg them to let me use a compatible device on their network.
i feel the same way. really is the wrong way to run a business.
I totally agree with you... but Verizon not having the Palm Pre isn't exactly Verizon's fault.
att is the same in a way...what i mean is that there shouldn't be a winmo, iphone, and bb data plan - there's no reason i shouldn't be able to take my sim card out of one, put it in another and have it work, but if you have an iphone sim and drop it in a bb, only voice and sms will work...sad days
Verizon is the best network where I live. I'm excited to see this because I'm certain when Verizon gets its grubby little hands on the Pre it will hamstring it.
I'm getting tired of my Win Mo phone. The hardware is just.... dated, very dated.
I see no video.
to all the haters your all dumb ass's this is the real deal i watched him do it in front of me, just because you don't have the balls or the skills it is not a reason to hate.
I need them to add a feature to the Pre that allows you to tap the picture icon of the person you're texting when you want to give them a quick call.
Sometimes I get a text asking, "Are you free? Call me"
I would love to just tap on their picture/icon when I open the text and immediately call them instead of going through my contacts.
press the call button while the text is open?
If the phone doesn't do that then it should. But there are a lot of things the Pre should do that it doesn't so I wouldn't be surprised.
This is personally exciting for one reason: I'm on chintzy-ass Sprint and they won't allow a SERO account to use the Pre (or any other feature-rich device that comes out and is desirable), instead trying to strong-arm SERO customers into paying more money for less service. Maybe if these hacks work on CDMA, SERO customers such as myself will have an opportunity to upgrade our phones.
Keep on keeping on, hacker brethren!
gHost
Only reason I couldn't see this working is that it would involve ESN cloning, which is quite illegal. You'd have to trick Sprint into thinking you were running another phone (say, a Treo 755 or something,) and I'm pretty sure there's a federal law against doing that.
When the Pre was announced I was really hoping for this as i had worries about Sprint coverage, but so far since taking the plunge I've had no issues at home (Orlando) and whilst traveling. Now was Verizon better? Probably, I see alot of 2 and 3 bars on Sprint as opposed to 4 and 5's on VZ, but from a usablility standpoint things have been fine.
Plus saving about $25 a month while still getting more minutes and a protection plan helps too.
Who cares? You can do with a Sprint activated Palm Pre already. Just turn on data roaming and your good to roam on verizon whenever you want. Sure the data isn't 3g, but its better then this hack thats no data at all.
But then you're paying for Sprint service and a lot of people would rather have Verizon, and not have to pay roaming charges.
@BrokenMonkey
I'm on Sprint. What are Roaming charges? I don't pay roaming charges. Do you pay roaming charges with Verizon??? That sucks. There's no Verizon here, but there is Alltel (same thing these days I guess, but whatever). Sprint doesn't have EVDO here, but Alltel does. Roaming only option on my Treo Pro and EVDO data works great? YUP.
So I guess all I have to say is this:
IM IN UR NETWORK, USIN IT FREE (well, not free, but at no extra cost.)
Hopefully this sends a message to Verizon. My Voyager is getting old and crappier as time goes on.
Well that was me who made the video, Sorry for the blurry video camera the auto-focus on my camera was shot. =)
Old news - it was (supposedly) done on 6/29
http://www.howardforums.com/showpost.php?p=12762615&postcount=171
tonycortes has (supposedly) had his pre on Cricket since before 6/24, including tethering.
http://www.howardforums.com/showpost.php?p=12742212&postcount=15
damn you verizon! i dont know why though
Can't you just dial *22801 or something like that and get the automated system to activate a foreign ESN/MEID? Or does that option have to be built into the software you're running for OTA activations? I know when I swapped a touch pro from Sprint to VZW thats all we had to do, no worrying about talking to a rep.
Pity Vista doesn't run on it, it would give me a beautiful experience, oh yes.
I spoke to Verizon last week. The woman confirmed that they will have the Pre in late 09 or early 10. She said there were discussions about Android, but no time frame. And she also said that the iPhone was probably not going to happen.