Microsoft exec says Apple asked them stop airing Laptop Hunters ads
By Donald Melanson 
posted July 15th 2009 9:27PM
posted July 15th 2009 9:27PM
Apple may have publicly responded to Microsoft's Laptop Hunters ads with a counterpunch of its own back in May, but it looks like it may have been singing a slightly different tune behind the scenes more recently, at least according to Microsoft's Chief Operating Officer, Kevin Turner. Speaking at Microsoft's Worldwide Partner Conference earlier today, Turner said that he knows the ads are working because "two weeks ago we got a call from the Apple legal department saying [...] 'Hey, you need to stop running those ads, we lowered our prices.'" Turner further went on to note that "they took like $100 off or something," before stating to applause that it "was the greatest single phone call in the history that I've ever taken in business" -- though he did apparently take a minute to ask: "Is this a joke? Who are you?" In case you're wondering, Turner also confirmed that Microsoft is indeed "just going to keep running them and running them and running them."
[Via Ars Technica]
[Via Ars Technica]
Looks like Apple's getting scared~
serves em right for their overpriced hardware >.< cost em so little to make and they sell it for so much...
For the last time, Apple hardware is not as overpriced as people like to make it seem. You realize that block aluminum is not cheap, nor is CNC milling? The bodies alone are expensive. Also, the screens, although TN, are noticeably nicer than a lot of other competitive laptops.
You're right, Apple is getting scared. And they should. Microsoft finally got off their ass and responded to the I'm a Mac ads that have for years now just been spouting lies about PCs. What Apple (and most consumers) don't know yet is that Windows 7 actually kicks ass, so in a few months things are going to get a bit ugly. For those of you that haven't tried the 7 RC on any machines yet-- do it. Outperforms XP on old hardware, autodetects and uses basically any built-in wireless chipset... and it even replaces the taskbar with a quality rip off of OS X's. I strongly prefer OS X to Vista and XP, but the user experience on 7 is better than all of them. That, and you can actually use it on a machine with Bluray and HDMI output. Seriosly Apple, if you're going to charge the highest prices, you at least need to have the best features.
CNC milling and Aluminium both get extremely cheap when you're manufacturing in the millions.
microsoft should've responded that if they stopped those mac vs pc ads, they'll stop laptop hunter ads.
If it is Apple getting scared, why is it Microsoft, who does not make computers, is running ads against a computer maker (who has less than 10% of the market) by comparing them to other computer makers? The ads do not extol the virtues of Windows, nor do they show Mac OS flaws. They compare hardware prices; Again, Microsoft is not making these PCs. Why isn't Microsoft running ads that show why Windows is superior to Mac OSX? Let's see those comparison ads instead of these.
If Apple were to license out Mac OS, companies like Dell, Acer & whoever wouldn't hesitate for one second on getting on board & offer their systems with a choice of OSes on them. Let's see the comparisons then. A Dell running Windows, or a Dell running Mac OSX. Which laptop would be 'hunted' more? That is a Microsoft nightmare...
These Laptop Hunter ads reek of Microsoft fear.
lol, that look. priceless.
HAHAHA Apple is scared from microsoft because they were showing how overpriced is MACS! serve them right
great now i will have that face stuck in my head -_-
skyblaze is scared from dr house because he were showing his undereducated grammar :\
are* grammar nazi ! still apple shouldn't care about those ads but they knew it's the truth !
wasnt your only mistake there but don't take offense, lol. just makin a joke ya digg :)
and i totally agree with you dude. apple's crappin in their tight ass jeans right about now
reply
I don't understand why most people here hate on macs, yes they are more expensive... but guess what...
So are BMW's, Mercedez, etc.. not everything is meant to be at the same price.. i don't see why would anybody would care about another company unless they deep inside desire the product and simply can't afford it.. otherwise they wouldn't waste their time and make such stupid comments..
If you can't afford a $1,500 laptop it's ok.. you don't have to hate apple because for it thou..
and for everything else, there is mastercard.
@Bluetooth Thank you. I admire you now. :)
a high end car has a premium because it is high end and has a higher level of appeal
same with apple
is a minute thing is wrong with an acer product like something is only offered with a glossy screen at a specific size, tough, fuck you, nobody cares. It is a bargain product.
if something is unsatisfactory with an apple product, they will fix it and make sure what they release will have a certain level of longevity. Sure sometimes the products fail, that is the nature of the beast, but apple will bend over backwards to fix it for you unless you are a huge dbag. Most other companies don't offer the same level of support in the tech sector.
apple behaves like a high end company as well, they do what they believe is the best thing, not what you outwardly believe you want. This is how the world of high end goods works. They don't aim to fix a problem you have as a peasant, they do whatever they can do well and if it fits what you need then great.
@BulletTooth, not to kill your whole metaphor, but paying for the same performance in a cheaper car as a high priced car, doesn't make sense. At least with your metaphor one would be getting twice the quality and price, but in reality not even close to the case no matter what they try to tell you.
Apple has to charge more for their computers because they have a minute percentage of the market. When you build in smaller quantities, it costs more per unit.
Learn how business works kids, then come back and post.
@Templarian
It's not just about performance...it's about extra features and buying an overall nicer product. Your question is like asking why someone would buy a $50K Lexus when they can get a Camry for $25K that has the same V6 engine in it.
@scootinger, extra features? They lack an HDMI or blu-ray option. They are falling behind on features, and they remove them if they are compatible or widely used.
(also cars is a bad comparison, I only used it since it had already been used).
Lol that's hilarious! I love my microsoft minus windows mobile. and zunes. but besides that i'm loving windows 7
@bullettooth
Apple products are just overexpensive and have the the same power as a pc, just like templarian said. Its more like Hyndai car company trying to be luxurious even though they're not,
when you can get real power and performance from alienware, or m-tech, or any high end gaming machine for the same or lower price of the 17" macbook pro
While I agree you pay more for Mercedes, BMW, etc...And, guess what - I took the plunge and I bought an iMac and I also have an iPhone. But I found out a few things you don't hear on these blogs.
While you get support by just 'walking into an Apple store' - I was told that they couldn't help me with my iPhone. I had to go over to a computer in the store and make an appointment and come back on Tuesday between the hours of 8am - 5pm. Hmmm...Well, I work between those hours - so, guess what? I can't. I do something a lot of people do between the hours of 8am - 5pm...that's called WORK. And I couldn't schedule any further out than tuesday either - like, for the next saturday.
I also had problems with my iMac and it kept having issues with crashing over and over and over. So, I called Apple tech support at, what I felt was a reasonable hour. 9pm CST. Turns out that they don't work past 5 or 6pm PST (I forget which now)...And I couldn't get help with my iMac either.
So, I have now tried TWO DIFFERENT TIMES to get help with my Apple products and I have been turned down each time.
How in the hell is this supposed to be great service? I haven't been able to even GET service.
I have had Dell PC's for a long time and these are my first apple products. And while you can complain all you want about Dell support. You can call any hour of the day or night and get help OR go online and get help. If I needed help with my computer I could get help! I have never been told that Dell tech support was closed or I'd have to come back some other time because they can't help me now. In fact...with my Dell PC's - they came out to ME to fix my issue - and it was the next day.
So, I have had to resort to taking things into my own hands to fix my issues. So, I completely wiped my iMac clean and restored my iPhone to its factory state. Still not working properly.
These issues have been on-going for a few weeks now.
So, to end my rant here - let me say this. Apple has some pretty packages. But in my experience - the support has NOT been better - the performance has NOT be superior to other products. And with the case of BMW or Mercedes - they don't use the same parts of a Ford or Chevy. Apple uses the same processors, ram, graphics cards, etc of all the HP's, Dell's, etc out there. They just cost more and instead of the support working around YOUR schedule - you must rearrange your life to fit theirs.
Say what you will about the PC's - but at least you can get support 24x7 and in most cases (like with Dell) they come to your home.
Maybe once I can actually GET help with my issues - maybe I'll change my mind.
But don't mistake it - its not all rainbows and unicorns. You pay more, sure - but its supposed to be a superior product with superior support...and in my experience - it has been non-existant support with the same off-the-shelf parts as everyone else is using 'under the hood'.
BulletTooth @ Jul 15th 2009 9:59PM
You are right about affording a more luxurious drive as compared to a not-so-luxurious one. But tell me this, do BMW and Mercedes have the same quality of engine and parts as those on Hondas and Toyotas? No. Merecedes and BMWs have more powerful engines, they have much more features and luxurious amenities.
Now getting back to Apple vs PCs, they use the same processor, the same RAM (this varies as we know and so does the horse power in an engine) hard disk (again this varies so does the fuel capacities in cars) and more or less the same graphics card.
I am not an Apple hater or a troll, I am just reflecting at what you said.
Probably because the ads have flat out lies, like some moron getting a PC because Macs are about aesthetics. The PC he got was the same price as a macbook, and had lower specs/features.
@jordan turpentine - Apple builds longevity into their products, that is certainly not my experience. Three of the 4 last Mac's I purchased failed within months of the Applecare expiring. WIndow's PC's purchased at the same time for about half the price are still working fine, no hardware problems, no viruses, no BSOD, no OS reinstalls, - they just work for me. The only machines I have needed to reinstall the OS on are the Mac's due to faulty upgrade downloads from Apple or the beachball of death being the new graphical interface. Horor of horrors - I actually prefer Vista to Leopard. Vista has been rock solid, no driver issues, no reinstalls, and I prefer the look and feel of Vista. If you prefer OS X, that's fine, preferences vary.
@BulletTooth
We don't hate on Macs, we hate on the stupid arguments that are put forth by the Apple faithful, and their derision of anything non-Apple.
We hate the arguments that somehow Apple gives you better quality hardware for the higher prices, when the hardware is the same as any Windows computer.
We hate the arguments that Microsoft is evil for some reason, but when Apple does the same, it is perfectly fine (e.g. activation of Windows vs. activation of an iPhone, or how Intel had unique identifiers in their chips accessible by software, but when they do the same in the iPhone - not a problem).
We hate the arguments that Microsoft is evil when 10 year old hardware is not supported (such as when Vista was released), but when Apple cuts suppoprt for 3 year old printers in Leopard, it is the user's fault for not owning the latest hardware.
We hate the arguments that problems with 3rd party hardware drivers it is the fault of Microsoft, but when Apple has problems with 3rd party hardware drivers, it is the hardware manufacturer's fault.
We hate the arguments that Apple never has any problems, but when a problem appears (such as not being able to activate a phone for hours), the user is at fault for not knowing the proper way of using a Mac, just plain stupid, or hate.
We hate the arguments when Microsoft services go down for an hour or two (such as Zune last week), it is said Microsoft provides horrible service and it is a Engadget front page mockery of Microsoft. But when iTunes goes down (http://www.tuaw.com/2009/07/07/itunes-store-and-app-store-problems/) nothing is said, and it really is not a problem.
We hate the argument that before the iPhone, the number of applications available for a platform does not make a difference, it is the quality of the software. After the iPhone is released, all that matters is the number of applications available.
We hate the argument that somehow Apple hardware will last forever, but other computers last only a year or two (this argument is used in this very article). I am typing on a 5 year old Dell laptop, how long does an iPod last?
We hate the argument that somehow Microsoft limits user choioce, when many people use non-Microsoft products. But when Apple limits choice (such as installing alternative browsers on an iPhone), it is in the user's best interest.
We hate the arguments that Microsoft keeps control over their products, but you need to jump through hoops just to develop for the iPhone.
We hate the arguments that Microsoft releases poor products that do not work and you need to wait for SP2 for it to be useful, is MobileMe working yet?
We hate the arguments that Microsoft does not deliver what was promised, Apple is just now delivering push notification - a year after it was promised.
We hate how some say everything was invented, created, designed, or innovated by Apple first, and everybody creates cheap knock-offs of Apple, when there is proof of it being done years before by other companies.
We hate the arguments that products such as Tablets, Netbooks, etc. are useless crap, but rumored products such as the Apple Tablet, or Netbook will be the savior of man.
We hate the argument that somehow opening a store, something that has existed for 1000s of years since somebody found they could trade a basket of vegetables for a chicken, is an Apple creation, and from now on no other company is permitted to open stores.
And, among the many others (but the last I will list), we hate the argument that somehow Apple is allowed to air commercials that lie about Microsoft and Apple's own products, but when Microsoft airs commercials that are true (a Windows computer is lower priced than an Apple computer), somehow Microsoft is evil and must stop now.
So no, we do not hate Apple - I have a Mac, an iPod, and iPhone. We just get sick of the pathetic fanboys who attack anybody who do not drink the kool-aid and do not give glowing reviews of anything Apple.
"dont pee on me and tell me it's raining!"
an educated person would know apple = kia with a price tag of a lexus.
if you really like OS X that much, buy yourself a pc and install OS X on it.
heres something to think about: if a Mac is really that great, why was Boot Camp even an option? why would you waste time dual booting back and forth?
"We hate the arguments that somehow Apple gives you better quality hardware for the higher prices, when the hardware is the same as any Windows computer." - NohOne
Puh-lease. Set a MacBook Pro next to one of those cheap-o laptops they tout in these Laptop Hunters ads and tell me they're the same.
Aluminum unibody, glass screen, large, buttonless multitouch trackpad vs. shiny, cheap feeling plastic and flimsy buttons (like the HP laptop sitting next to me right now).
Buy a cheap PC if it suits your needs, but the argument that a $800 HP is equivalent to a MacBook Pro just because it matches the processor speed and amount of RAM is absurd.
@ BulletTooth
The Mac is to BMW as PC is to Honda comparison is illogical. Macs are basically PCs in very nice packages, with Mac OS installed on them. A typical BMW is superior to a typical Honda in almost every way (except price). A better comparison would be Macs are like Lacie external hard drives and PCs are like Western Digital external hard drives. The innards are the same, but the Lacie looks and feels better.
Now, that isn't to say that the look and feel isn't worth something, in fact, I'm personally thinking about getting a MBP and formatting the HDD to put on Windows 7. The thing is, not many Mac owners will admit that what they own is a glorified Dell with Mac OS on it.
A couple, more apt, analogies...
Macs = Dasani bottled water
and
PCs = Arrowhead bottled water
Macs = a top loading Nintendo Entertainment System
and
PCs = a normal Nintendo Entertainment System
@SONYEDDIE I want to have my head stuck in that face!
@ Darkstar - Games, pure and simple. Everything else you can do equally as well on both Mac OS & Windows.
I'm going to have to disagree with all the talk about Macs being poor quality. I have a '97 iMac still going strong. I couldn't be happier with my 3 year old MBP. So I believe you get what you pay for. My 5 year old XP Dell is still going like a tank too, so I guess that's a case of getting more than you paid for.
@puckotg22
The few times I had to go into the Apple Store for service I was able to go at 8pm at night... I was usually able to get an appointment either the same day or within 24hrs. I'm not sure why you had such weird hours but I think you may have just not tried hard enough.
I had a Dell laptop.. the motherboard died in a year and a half... I called tech support and spoke to someone in India (Apple is USA), they didn't help me AT ALL. They made me reinstall windows because it kept shutting off every time I turned it on. I wasted a whole DAY on the phone. Then I paid them $400 to look at it and "fix" it but oh guess what THEY KEPT THE 400 AND WANTED 700 MORE FOR THE MOBO. So because I didn't have that 700 I ended up losing 400 and getting my broken laptop back.. Yea Dell's support is awesome!
As for Apple... I spent maybe an hour on the phone, and go an appointment for that night. The guy on the phone made the appointment for me! The only problem was I had a dead hard drive.... and Apple won't let you keep the dead one... it had some very sensitive images on it so I ended up having to replace it myself.. no big deal though. They took care of my powercord and stuff no problem. Yes, it can be a pain making an appointment but it's nice to have a guaranteed time that someone is going to try and assist you.
@NohOne - The official hater, stalker, and psychopath - That was a very well put, thought out post by you. There was no bashing, there was no hate, just straight up fact. I agree with every single one of your points, and they are all exactly right on the money. Thank you for that post.
BLUERAY!!!
Well said NohOne.
I would also have to agree with Jordan, NohOne - The official hater, stalker, and psychopath, that was probably one of the best factual posts out there. And it's NOT bashing on macs.
Quix, there have been numerous reports of people having problems with Apple keyboards, that the keys do not register when pressed. How many people here on Engadget, even a certian hard-core Apple fan just today, have complained about the glass being used for the screen and it being "glossy" rather than matte? I hate not having buttons on trackpads, and disable the tap to click. My Dell laptop, with the "cheap" non-Apple keyboard is 4 years old now. I had some problems a few weeks ago with the period key, but a little compressed air underneath it, and now it works like a charm. And being I am a software developer that has used this computer 10 hours a day for 4 years, and it still works flawlessly, I don't see it being worth spending more for a Mac because they supposedly last longer, when I have first hand experience that the competitors last just as long.
Apple for years before aluminum case, glass, button less trackpad, etc. were more expensive. What was special about them then? The CPU? The RAM? Better graphics? Once they switched to Intel, all the parts are exactly the same. You could claim that PPC had some special qualities, but you can't any more. And when we could compare part for part, there was no difference except for the Apple logo on the box. To you, image may be important, but to me, it is getting work done.
But thank-you for proving my point.
I think the only reason why I love Macs is because I have O.C.D. The UI of Windows drives me crazy...So much screen space is wasted!
You see, I have a real reason to love Macs! Even though I have been using PCs for years, it took me about one day of using an iMac to make me go crazy. Just think, if I never touched an iMac, I'd still be using a PC and most likely be hating on Macs with you all :D
Problem with the whole logic process in this whole thing is that Apple machines don't actually cost more than windows machines. Spec out a windows machine to match a mac, which is harder to do than you think, you'll find the windows machine costs just about as much. That's before you pay for antivirus software and upgrade options-- and, the big thing, is try to see your pc in about 3 years when you're ready to upgrade. You won't get squat for your Dell/HP-- Apple machines still fetch a decent price.
These are computers, they aren't perfect--- things happen. I had a motherboard go out on my macbook pro-- took it into the apple store in the morning and it was ready by 4 the same day.
What it boils down to is what works best for you in how you work-- both companies are going to continue going after each other and that's good. Both need to innovate and improve.
@NohOne: I wish I could vote up your post more than once.
I prefer Windows for many reasons, but not for any hate for Apple, since I actually own an iPod Classic and think the iPhone is really awesome. But every time I for some reason consider getting an Apple product, one big negative that always crosses my mind is "and join those nuts?" It's sad, because I'm aware of the advantages some products have (as I am of their faults), but Apple fanboys just get on my nerves.
Put this huge negative along with facts such as that games and some software I use for work won't run, that I just can't wrap my head around some interface decisions that just seem illogical for me, that I just enjoy putting my machine together piece by piece, and that Windows does everything I want without any problems (I don't even remember the last time I've seen a virus or a BSOD), and that guarantees that I won't be buying macs any time soon.
The irony is that Apple fanboys actually think they are helping to convince people about how good those products are. It's unbelievable they don't see the disservice they're doing.
@David
I have never had to work with customer service, whether it be Apple or any other PC tech support, so I digress on those points; however:
Your little rant just proved to me that you don't know crap about computers. Regardless of what they told you, a MOBO isn't going to cost you 700 to replace. Inside of your shitty prefab computer was probably nothing greater than a $70 motherboard, which is probably why it died.
Also, you don't say who "they" are that looked at your laptop for $400. FOUR HUNDRED? Are you mad? Geek Squad is your friend if you don't know how to Google search a problem. For $400 you could have narrowed it down to a couple of different parts and bought replacements, which would have been an upgrade if you've had it for a year and a half.
The ads make no sense. Well I guess they make sense if you dont understand computers. They mention RAM in every commercial, the quantity of RAM is totally irrelevant when talking PC and MAC. 1 GB or RAM in a MAC is like 4 GB in a PC. Ive had several high end PC laptops. The least expensive of which was a Sony VAIO I paid $1299 for. If youre a Windows fanboy good for you buts its only because you havent spent a month with a MAC and come to realized how lean it runs. I have a 3 year old MACBOOK. I never turn it off. I simply close the lid, when I need to use it again I open the lid and im on the internet in less than 30 seconds every time. All my Windows machines were ok but not even close to as fast. @Windows fanboys: continue to use your slow-fisherPrice-looking machines.....youre only wasting your time.
A few other things, Quix. No, I want to make clear that I do not believe all (or even more than small percentage) Apple keyboards are broken, but there are some who find them not the quality you profess them to be. I would also expect the highest price Apple product to be manufactured of higher quality external materials than a low priced laptop. But to some, people who want to just want to browse the web, write some email, watch a video or listen to music, or maybe use a word processor, paying $499 for a Dell laptop is much more attractive than a $1199 (the cheapest) Mac Book Pro. What does a glass screen get the user who wants to do those things? How does a uni-body construction make watching video better? You may find paying $700 more for those extras in a Mac Book Pro worth the value - and more power to you, use what you enjoy. But for the general user, and for me, I would rather spend that $700 on something else, because, frankly, I don't see how a touch pad with fewer buttons, a glass screen (although, I must say, I think I am the only person who likes glossy screens), and a uni-body construction adds up to $700 worth of productivity using my laptop.
But I think I found something else to add to my list:
We hate the argument that somehow multi-touch built into Win7 is useless as we have been told a number of times, but a multitouch trackpad makes an Apple device worth the higher price tag.
@ NohOne: I wish to subscribe to your newsletter
Look how much these people care about things that don't matter.
@ NohOne-
Look, the truth is, anyone who makes an argument that the CPU or RAM is better in Macs is an idiot. We get that. I agree. I'm sure most (not all, but most) Mac users would agree. There is a vocal minority that feels the need to argue in favor of Apple hardware on those ridiculous terms. Keyboards are very subjective, and I've seen dead keyboards on everything from high end Vaios to Low end Inspirons, just like the Mac keyboards you are talking about.
Are there build quality issues on both sides? Yes. I've seen cracked plastic on HPs and peeling palm rests on Macbooks. I've personally had HDD's die within a month of purchase on three different vendors (Gateway, Dell, and HP). The only difference in dead/stuck pixels that make it to the consumer are in how the companies handle them and what they might consider acceptable.
If anyone is going to argue for or against a Apple, it needs to be understood that the argument all comes down to preference. When it comes down to it, there isn't anything that indisputably can't be done on one platform that can be on the other. I realize someone could argue gaming or something, but a smaller number of natively available apps does not negate an OS's ability to do something.
Someone may prefer Apple's application management or UI. Others may prefer Microsoft's file system. For my daily needs, I find OS X to be a wonderful system. There isn't anything I've never encountered something I wasn't able to do, and I chose OS X as my ecosystem for Apple's software. I feel that the integration of their professional applications into the OS and their UI consistency rules is a huge benefit in trying to quickly and easily adapt to new software. I didn't switch from Windows because I couldn't do what I wanted, I switched because I wanted to do it differently and Apple's way of doing things is closer to my desired workflow. I use Final Cut Studio for most of my video editing, and I really like the way it works. I feel that it is an insanely flexible package and for my purposes it's great. Before I was a Mac user, I ran Sony's Vegas software, and I could do pretty much the same stuff, but for my workflow it wasn't the right piece of software.
What I'm trying to say is, ignore the vocal minority. They are ignorant, and the only reason they argue is because they hope for this kind of long response from individuals like us (the reasonable ones, you know?). If you're tired of hearing them, ignore them. They will go away. Don't try arguing against their arguments. They wont hear what you're trying to say, and while many of us understand your frustration, it's your frustration they feed off of.
@Chris: Thanks for expressing your own views as a Mac user. Who says PC's and Mac's can't have a civilized conversation?