Amazon remotely deletes Orwell e-books from Kindles, unpersons reportedly unhappy (update)
By Laura June 
posted Jul 17th 2009 4:20PM
posted Jul 17th 2009 4:20PM
Update: According to commenters on Amazon, this message was sent out from the company's customer service department:
The Kindle edition books Animal Farm by George Orwell. Published by MobileReference (mobi) & Nineteen Eighty-Four (1984) by George Orwell. Published by MobileReference (mobi) were removed from the Kindle store and are no longer available for purchase. When this occurred, your purchases were automatically refunded. You can still locate the books in the Kindle store, but each has a status of not yet available. Although a rarity, publishers can decide to pull their content from the Kindle store.While that publisher's version of the book may have been removed, it appears other versions of the novels are still available.
Update 2: Drew Herdener, Amazon.com's Director of Communications, pinged us directly with the following comment, and now things are starting to make a lot more sense. Seems as if the books were added initially by an outfit that didn't have the rights to the material.
These books were added to our catalog using our self-service platform by a third-party who did not have the rights to the books. When we were notified of this by the rights holder, we removed the illegal copies from our systems and from customers' devices, and refunded customers. We are changing our systems so that in the future we will not remove books from customers' devices in these circumstances.Still, what's upsetting is the idea that something you've purchased can be quietly taken back by Amazon with no explanation and no advance notice. It's a rotten policy, regardless of the motivations behind this particular move.
LOL they would delete 1894. Orwell = prophet? O_o
The amount of irony in this almost makes it seem like a publicity stunt. I mean seriously...delete a book without user's knowledge or control, that is all about how government takes away citizens' freedoms and control. Wow.
you're missing the point here ....
Amazon did it for the lulz ....
I'm downvoting you for your terrible mistake. 1894? You lose grandma.
This is double plus ungood!
What's lost here is that Orwell's story discusses the evils of Government. There's no option with the State - as long as you live there you are subject to their scrutiny and oversight.
The Kindle is a private market device. If you don't buy a Kindle, you can buy one of a number of eReaders. You can even pick up a paperback copy. If you purchased a Kindle, you agreed to a set of terms and conditions that dictate how you can use their product. Don't like it? Don't buy it, or sell the one you have.
The point is, as a free market purchase by private individuals, you have a choice. When Big Brother, the literal overlord of government, watches over you, there's no option to turn it off because you don't want it anymore.
People water down the meaning of 1984 when they use it to describe private market purchases like this. Exercise your rights as a consumer and put the Kindle down if it's an issue.
king, is it written in the "agreement" when you purchase a kindle that they have full authority to remotely access your device and erase data from it's storage? Then it's more of a breach of contract, if one exists with this device.
I woke up this morning and all of the Thomas Pynchon novels were gone from my bookcase and somebody had left a plate of cold sh*t in the fridge. F my life!
@ J Dogg: In your fridge, eh? It didn't happen to be replacing the 'Frying of Latke 49' cookbook, did it?
@TheFlamingoKing: The problem with the "private market" device argument is that the sellers get asymmetric backing of the force of law via the DMCA, wherein the the government monopoly on force is used to uphold the terms of a contract which you cannot get government backing to negotiate.
One bargains only with equals or near equals. Also, damn you MobileReference for making me take the Marxist view.
kinda like from the movie "I, Robot" where the personal bots you think you owned was upgraded remotely without the owner's knowledge.
so, when will SkyNet jump in?
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH."
Bryan @ Jul 17th 2009 4:27PM
"WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH."
Kindle is s**t
Constant conflicts (economic or warfare) is necessary to maintain stability stability in our society. Capitalism necessarily expands to avoid collapse. It's what Joseph Tainter called a "runaway train".
The amount of attention given to, dogmatization of, and religious adherence to the idea of "freedom" might as well be philosophical slavery - anything that does not conform to an arbitrary set of criteria that defines "freedom" is automatically "evil" and rejected, regardless of any practical benefits it may have.
Knowing half of the truth and thinking you know the whole is far worse than knowing nothing at all. We can at least acknowledge and deal with our ignorance in the second case, whereas in the first case we become so secure in our biased perception of the truth it "becomes" the truth.
capslock is annoying
@Gabe: War is not Peace. In military warfare you "create" through the destruction of your enemy. In economic warfare you "destroy" your enemy through the creation of better products for the consumer.
How do you define "Freedom" is it the traditional "freedom from oppression", "from extortion", "from the unlawful rule of another"? Or is it the new age Marxist speak of "freedom from worry", "from need", "from the oppression of responsibility"? The quotation "Freedom is Slavery" is in my opinion, a perversion of truth.
While knowing half the truth might be worse then knowing nothing at all, nobody is fully ignorant of anything anymore.
William A McGuire: Obviously you haven't read the book. I recommend it, but in paperback.
How fitting.
Its bullshit is what it is... Just look at where this is leading. Its scary stuff.
I will state this again since so many need to have it spelled out. A corporation CAN NOT legally enter into a contract (ie. user agreement, licensing agreement, or EULA) with a individual that has no legal representation. That means when they force you to sign or click agree to use their product the agreement is null and void. The contract was drawn up by professional lawyers for aforementioned corporation, which means it can only be a legally binding contract if you had a lawyer with you when you signed it! Amozon can not legally steal back something just because they refunded the purchase price. IF you steal something you don't just have to pay for it. You also have to serve your time for committing the crime.
Sorry Dr. Spaceman to have to use your comment as a reply, but most people only read the first few.
@iRoc do you have any sort of competent citation to support your claim?
in the US, unrepresented individuals enter into contracts with American Express all the time. doesn't American Express sue borrowers who don't pay it back?
Ouch. So does this have the ability to turn off wireless? Not that it'd matter, you can't live without wireless forever.
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever."
[Shiver}
If you want a picture of the future of kindling ... go to www.toorgle.com. It's all about decentralized access. It's out there ...
reasons why I love my Sony e-reader
Well, this is annoying. I have Sony ereader as well, but what's to stop any company from doing the same thing to Sony? The fallout is gonna be interesting.....
I have the PRS505.. It doesn't have a wireless card, thus nobody (except myself) has access to the flash memory
hear hear!~
Thats why I don't read books! ;)
The Kindle is a Telescreen....
Not me. I wish they just sold the Librie in America instead of creating a new, worse (IMO) product.
@Eddie
One major thing different with the Sony. (and most other readers). The device you buy is yours. Sony can not put stuff on it or take stuff off it without your expressed permission.
The times sony installed crap DRM services and tried to install rootkits on my system to control my property doesn't make them exactly someone to mention in a positive way at this juncture IMHO.
That is so "Life Follows Art".
Choco rations up 20%, Doubleplus Good!
I really would like a Kindle, but I would like to do what I want with the books I buy, such as sell them, trade them, etc. I can't do that with how they have it set up. Heck, it looks like I can't even keep the book if they don't want me to.
You don't have to buy your books from amazon. You don't have to turn on your wireless either. These books were being sold by a publisher that didn't have the legal right to do so. People are getting way too ridiculous over this issue. Plus it was a $0.99 purchase...wow big loss!
Amen...I have purposely put off buying a kindle or any other e-reader until the book industry learns the same lesson that the music industry has learned in part - If I buy it, it belongs to me. This only reinforces that I shouldn't buy a Kindle until they get their hands out of my purchases.
I do see however that the company didn't have the right to sell it. But, in the process I learned how much control they have over my stuff.
I imagine you're only purchasing the licence to view those books, not the book itself. You should probably check out the EULA.
The difference is, with music, you can't own a sounds. With movies, short of having it on film, you can't own the recording. With a book, you own the paper, and you own the words. There is a fundamental different of 'licensing' the contents of a book, and licensing the sounds or motion video on a disc. The fact that they didn't have the right to sell it doesn't mean they have the right to take it away from you after the fact. If you buy a bootleg CD, and the guy gets busted, the cops don't usually come busting down the door of everyone who legitimately bought it. They just stop them from selling anymore.
I would be super pissed if I bought these books and had them deleted automatically because SOMEONE ELSE fucked up.
"Do you begin to see, then, what kind of world we are creating?" George Orwell
2+2=5?
Good song....
Yes, 2 + 2 = 5 for sufficiently large values of 2.
pi ~= 3
Wow!!! Btw, Nineteen Eighty-Four is one of my favorite.
Aren't they public domain yet?
We've got copyright for 75 years in the US (ugh, yeah, i know) so we've got another 15 years before it goes out of copyright.
-Taylor
Well not in the US but some countries like Canada or Australia it is public domain.
I'm going on soma holiday. Wake me up when books are books again.
Aren't you thinking of Aldous Huxley?
Brave New World, much?
But did they delete Farenheit 451?
@aardWolf: No, that's only on e-readers with a Sony battery, and they don't so much get deleted as the whole unit just sort of spontaneously bursts into flames...
no, they're going to burn the Kindles instead. Wait, what temperature does a Kindle burn at? I guess it'll have to be Fahrenheit 1000-something.
not delete, just burned.
@Jacob: I suspect Kindles would just melt. Probably at a relatively(compared to 451F) low temperature too...
They wouldn't actually delete Farenheit 451, for that they'd just set the Kindle on fire.
I guess Amazon decided that 1 class action suit this week wasn't enough.
You wouldn't have a case. There are no damages. Everyone was refunded their money. If I stole your physical copy of 1984 but wrote you a check to buy a new one you couldn't sue me.
@ outlawmoogle
"If I stole your physical copy of 1984 but wrote you a check to buy a new one you couldn't sue me."
No, I could still charge you with theft as I didn't choose to sell it to you. Amazon took back a product that it sold to its customers and did not even informing them of their decision to do so. If those customers wish finish reading the book, they'll now have to shell out for a physical copy.
I think that Amazon should have contacted the customers and given them the option to either get the refund or receive a physical copy of the book at no additional charge.
If this had happened to me (Thankfully, my well dog-eared copy of 1984 is sitting on my book shelves), I would have demanded a full refund for my Kindle and all e-books I had purchased as I would never know if I'd ever be able to ensure that I could keep my e-books for however long as I wanted.
@outlawmoogle If you stole my physical copy of 1984 but wrote me a check to buy a new one I could successfully sue you for the tort of trespass detinue, which allows for recovery of the specific item (chattel) being held. Alternatively I might sue for the tort of trespass to chattels; your cheque does not necessarily cover the full extent of the damages I'd be entitled to recover.
Dude, I love Animal Farm. Why they do this.
Because all e-books are equal... but some are more equal than others.
That's one more reason I don't think I'll buy a Kindle.
That is so "Life Follows Art."
Choco rations up 20%, DoublePlus Good!
@aardWolf: No, that's only on e-readers with a Sony battery, and they don't so much get deleted as the whole unit just sort of spontaneously bursts into flames...
Argh, stupid Engadget comment system. Posting this back up where it should go. Vote me to hell...
I hope somebody sues them - this is a completely violation of property rights... why do companies think they have the right to go back on any contract or agreement they have with a consumer at anytime?
fuck amazon
Prob because Amazon has the right to do this. Welcome to their asshat EULA for the Kindle. Read it. Its pretty fucked up.
If Amazon promises me to do that every time I finish reading a book (refund and delete it), I will buy a Kindle
Shocking. This is called stealing. If Amazon wishes to "buy" something back, they better pay the price the owner see fit.
I usually loathe the way you americans like to sue eachother for whatever reason but for once it's actually justified. Go get 'em.
It's interesting how they're making the distinction between ownership of digital media over physical media. why would they chose this action over discontinuing further purchases of the product or switching your copy with the copy from another publisher and giving them the money insted of refunding you. The industry may want to move away from physical "storage" but things like this makes people hesitant, until there's noone left to remember how things used to be and history is rewritten to wipe the slate clean...
my coworker just downloaded 1984, and I verified that it is on his kindle now. seems amazon is deleting books, but still sells them.
the same book is avaliable from a few publishers. Amazon only delete them from one of the publishers.
Hey Amazon, FAIL!
Can anyone who has a kindle answer this: When you buy a kindle book are you just buying the license like an OS, or is there an actual purchase made? Its a crappy thing for Amazon to do either way, but they may be covered legally if you don't actually own any of it.
Four legs good, two legs bad.
Four legs good, two legs bad.
Four legs good, two legs better.
Four legs good, two legs better
Four legs good, two legs better
Four legs good, two legs better
Poker anyone?
This is very disconcerting. I was seriously considering a Kindle, but not now. I will not buy a product where things I purchase will potentially just disappear.
just like the iPhone apps can do hehehe
As if not owning being able to sell/share/burn your purchases was not enough...
As if paying full paperback prices for paperless, wireless delivery was not enough...
As if the proprietary format, forcing one to be tithed forever to Amazon's will was not enough...
...If I had known I was just 'renting' the books I've bought at $9.99 and more a pop, I would not have been such a fan of the Kindle to this point.
I feel quite sad inside now.
Just one more reason why real books are better than ebooks. Support your local bookstore. No, I don't own a bookstore. :o)
ARE YOU SERIOUS!??? Amazon stole then! No doubt there. If you purchase something; you own it. What if I was not happy with the price the runded since I didn't consent? What if I wanted to mark up the price?
According to Amazon's logic, it should be fine for me to sell a house, let them live in it for a bit, then come back, refund them the money, and kick them out again.
I can't believe I just read this. Good luck trying to catch me purchasing from them again.
Physical media, FTW!
Next up on the Kindle, they'll update your History books with the new and improved history without telling you.
This is why I do not purchase content devices that are tied into a service. You control NOTHING. You do not even really own the device or the content on it.
Does this make these Kindle users 'un-people'?
Huh. My copy of 1984 is still sitting here on my shelf.
Good 'old books. I think I'll keep 'em.
Since when did Orwell write A Clockwork Orange? Engadget...get your allusions right.
Not an allusion. Just a word I like.
It's still along the lines of a dystopian, future with limited freedom.
What's it going to be then, eh?
If I'm interpreting the most recent (1998) copyright extension correctly, the copyright on the book will expire in 2020, 70 years after George Orwell's death.
Thanks to Sony for not putting any such thing into their readers - will still be reading all those the free-floating books.
Since Sony has proprietary software on it, you never know what it's programmed to do. Either get a tablet with open source software, or watch history rewrite itself (literally) when Big Brother comes to power :)
Amazon: The place where there is no darkness.
Victory Gin on standby.
Yet again, publishers are promoting piracy of their own content. Every customer is now painfully aware that legitimately purchased copies of these books have been deleted while pirated versions remain safe. You can't trust any content with DRM. Piracy is a lot safer (and cheaper). Those that follow the law will be punished.
Amazon can delete things you've "bought" but you can't return an ebook (after 7 days).
Who's the bitch in this relationship?
just like the iPhone apps can do hehehe