Amazon remotely deletes Orwell e-books from Kindles, unpersons reportedly unhappy (update)
By Laura June 
posted July 17th 2009 4:20PM
posted July 17th 2009 4:20PM
Update: According to commenters on Amazon, this message was sent out from the company's customer service department:
The Kindle edition books Animal Farm by George Orwell. Published by MobileReference (mobi) & Nineteen Eighty-Four (1984) by George Orwell. Published by MobileReference (mobi) were removed from the Kindle store and are no longer available for purchase. When this occurred, your purchases were automatically refunded. You can still locate the books in the Kindle store, but each has a status of not yet available. Although a rarity, publishers can decide to pull their content from the Kindle store.While that publisher's version of the book may have been removed, it appears other versions of the novels are still available.
Update 2: Drew Herdener, Amazon.com's Director of Communications, pinged us directly with the following comment, and now things are starting to make a lot more sense. Seems as if the books were added initially by an outfit that didn't have the rights to the material.
These books were added to our catalog using our self-service platform by a third-party who did not have the rights to the books. When we were notified of this by the rights holder, we removed the illegal copies from our systems and from customers' devices, and refunded customers. We are changing our systems so that in the future we will not remove books from customers' devices in these circumstances.Still, what's upsetting is the idea that something you've purchased can be quietly taken back by Amazon with no explanation and no advance notice. It's a rotten policy, regardless of the motivations behind this particular move.
.... I cant believe this... This is amazing and shocking. The world government is just behind the corner.
FREEDOM OF SPEECH IS GONE! JUST OPEN YOUR EYES YOU IGNORANT PEOPLE!
Big brother is watching us, lol
This is going to be a problem we see more and more of when "cloud" computing takes off.
You keep all your photos on somebody else's server and then they decide you should not have access to them any more.
What do you do?
http://www.renogeek.com
No matter how you look at it, this is such an epic failure. I think it's the end of Kindle, period.
The problem is not that there were some legal disputes - the problem is that Amazon can decide to delete content remotely without my consent. That's absolutely ridiculous.
Do I care why you delete books? No, I don't. I don't even want to know. What I care about is that you have the ability to delete these books, that is quite frankly a joke. Why does Kindle have this ability? Is that a feature that benefits me as a customer? Because I think it's not.
Bookburning, a surprise to see it on a ->kindle
The were illegitimate copies which never should have been for sale anyway. So, Amazon refunds customer's money and deletes the books. I don't have a problem with that, and I don't think there was any other course of action open to Amazon without getting into potential legal problems with the publisher.
What's wrong is that they can.
And what they should have done is never letting it get that far, you don't 'accidentally' sell stuff, it's a whole process and since they sell millions of books from hundreds or thousands of publishers they bloody well know how it works and have many procedures in place to make sure they have the rights before doing so, there's no reason for such 'accidents' so the whole thing does seem to have some sort of as-of-yet unknown motivation, perhaps to get people used to deleting, perhaps it was a bluff by selling it 'accidentally' forcing the rights holder to accept a contract, since it was 'done already anyway', there are multiple possible scenarios many of which are shifty.
It doesn't matter if Amazon or some 3rd party had rights to sell the book or not. It's just wrong on principal that Amazon assumes that kind of power that enables them to DELETE content you've purchased and own (and to delete it from a device that YOU also OWN)....regardless of how they make up for it (refunds, etc). You bought it in good faith. You own it. Too damn bad if Amazon screwed up, that should be on them. The digital age is getting too creepy. This is another sign of it.
>You bought it in good faith. You own it.
That's not the law in US where Amazon operates and the books were sold. You don't get to keep stolen property just because you didn't know it was stolen.
Why would they even build in a capability to remotely delete stuff from user's Kindles? It remids me Mom's robots from Futurama, who have been secretly programmed to revolt by a radioed directive from Mom. This is probably worse than Digital Rights software, stay away from Kindle.
>Why would they even build in a capability to remotely delete stuff from user's Kindles?
For automatic refunds and deletions if you purchase a book by mistake.
but that implies that you cannot make a backup, which means once your Kindle is gone, all that purchased "library" goes with it, which also implies you cannot switch to other brand of e-reader nor PC. From marketing point of view this is a win-win for Amazon, but I would much rather stay away.
So today they removed a book because it was published by mistake - never mind that if I buy some gadget in bestbuy for example that wasn't suppose to be released for another week, they can't actually come to me and tell me to give it back for a full refund - tomorrow they're going to remove a book because it portrayed some large corporation in a bad light, and before you know it books are being removed because they "promote unhealthy thoughts", or "make the government look bad" or something else along the lines.
aardWolf - Your comment made me smile. Fahrenheit 451 was more in line with the context of this story. The banning of books. 1984 was about government taking control of every single facet of life and rewriting history as needed.
And not to be nit-picky, but droogs is a word from Anthony Burgess' A Clockwork Orange. Let's reference Soylent Green while we're on the subject of dystopian futures.
"We are changing our systems so that in the future we will not remove books from customers' devices in these circumstances."
Oh really! Checks TV for Orwellian camera that views house.
What a crock of shit.
If I get a paper copy of a book, I can return it for a refund if I purchase it by mistake. I've bought a few Kindle ebooks on my iPod touch but I am not able to return it for a refund if I purchase it by mistake. Now, Amazon tells us that they can actually force us to return any ebook for a refund due to their mistakes! Can Amazon please give me a refund for all the Kindle books I have ever purchased? It's all a mistake that I embraced this technology, because it doesn't feel like I actually OWN these books now.
>I've bought a few Kindle ebooks on my iPod touch but I am not able to return it for a refund if I purchase it by mistake.
That must be a problem with the iPod then, because all it takes with a Kindle is a call to customer service to get your money refunded. Also if you buy directly from the Kindle there's a butyon that pops up immediately after purchasing that asks if you bought the book by mistake and want to return it.
Kindle hardware seems pretty attractive, the networking is pretty cool, and over all seemed like a pretty nifty product; currently a bit rich for my blood, but there ya go.
With this remote removal and refund of purchased goods, it's really highlighted how a DRM-entangled company like Amazon doesn't get the whole concept of 'ownership'. Slice it and dice it however you like, your customer expects that at the end of the transaction, he or she 'owns' something; however intangible. Yank that out from under the customer, for whatever reason you do it, and you seriously damage your customer base.
They've completely lost me as a potential customer for a Kindle down the road with this 1984 business. Screw that noise.
Anyone who buys the Kindle or buys Kindle E-books on iPod deserves a punch in the face. Seriously it is little bitches like you who tell these people that it is okay to take away our rights for the sake of convenience.
Any book you buy better be available to you for life for starters. Secondly they took away your right to return a book. They took away your right to sell a used book. They took away your right to lend a book to a friend. You people disgust me in that if everyone succumbed like you every single thing we buy would be tracked by wireless carrier. You could never share a written work or audio work. You could never sell those works when you are finished. You are just bending over and saying "just pound me hard", and you give the impression that the rest of us want to do the same.
We are just so fucked if we allow this crap to happen to us.
On another note as an astute reader pointed out on the other "gadget" website if we didn't already have libraries and somebody proposed the idea of a library where people could borrow books at no cost for a limited period, that person would be screwed seven ways to Sunday in today's climate. It's just disgusting.
Indeed.
The Kindle looks like bad news for writers. You can sell more but for less money. Who is going to pay 25$/€ for a bookfile?
You can make a song in just an hour or a day (Black Eyed Peace sounds like they do it all the time, bragging posers, gibberish lyrics, weakest live performances ever and showing off their money in times of crisis. Motherfuckers need to die, sry about that back to the subject) so i understand songpricing at 0,99 cents.
Writing a book, and a good one, takes a lot of effort and time and it keeps you occupied for a longer time than a 3 minute song.
>You can sell more but for less money.
If you publish the books yourself your royalty is far higher than you would get at a traditional publisher. If you go the traditional publishing route then the ebook's price and author royalties are determined by the publisher and not by Amazon,
Well many classics have authors that are dead as doornails, so I don't think they mind a lowish price, in fact they don't do anything, mind or other.
As for the music that you don't appreciate, sure it's simple and what not but if someone is willing to pay a buck for it out of their own volition then why would you let that fill you with hate? As long as it's played on their MP3 players headphones it's perfect since you are not affected.
You might feel it as an unfairness in a more global sense, but come on, what is fair in a capitalistic system?
complete f' in BS. I can understand how they can stop selling anymore copies but to take back things you have already purchased is insane!!!!!
No, it is not just insane, it is illegal.
First, any Kindle Book Store can be returned within 7 days of purchase, for any reason. This cannot be done online; the purchaser (i.e., the credit card holder) must call Amazon customer service, though the "call" can be an e-mail through Amazon's website. I have returned 3 purchases so far, 2 of which were obviously scanned books run through incompetent OCR.
Second, when Amazon accepts a request for return, the publication is deleted from the account's list of licensed publications, which causes the Kindle device to delete it from its memory. So Amazon used its returns function, as ITS easiest method of returning the purchase price, which had the side effect of deleting the publication.
But this option of un-licensing publications is inherent in the Kindle structure: either through the device, or on the Amazon website, a Kindle can be deregistered from your account. This enables you to sell the physical device - just like a physical book - without giving the new owner a blank check to charge publications on your credit card. Of course, before transfering the device, I would also recommend selecting the menu option to reset memory to its original, shipped-from-Amazon, state.
While on initial reading I thought WTF (and actually the main bit of me still does), the part of me that's playing devil's advocate thinks we've finally got what we deserved. Amazon have the (previously unknown) ability to recall purchases from our devices and they used it, at least they refuded our money...OK, now before anyone starts going on about "I purchased that with my money" and "consumer contract rights" etc, while they are all valid points (and actually I agree with them, but I'm still in Devil's Advocate mode), if this had been a printed book, they would have recalled all the illegal copies off the shop shelves, but didn't have a way to recall all the purchased copies...well now they do...and have used it...good for them.
Can anyone on this forum say they have NEVER EVER copied one piece of music, or copied one piece of software without purchasing it? The record companies didn't have the foresight to see where the technology to copy CD was going and we exploited that...now as soon as a company does that to us we cry "that's not fair"...pot, kettle, black, I feel.
Having said all that...I think it's bloody unfair and Amazon are becoming a bunch of controlling power hungry megalomanics (kinda like Microsoft, Google and Apple)
Watch. The works of John Twelve hawks will be removed soon also. That is IF Kindle ever offered them.
Nothing new....
Good, I was considering a Kindle, but I hope someone comes out with something better. Kindle:eBooks::iPod:Music If the Kindle/Amazon gets its way, we'll have DRM'd ebooks for 5-10 years and have massive, widespread piracy of eBooks, then we'll have DRM-free ebooks. Burn DRM....wait you can't do that so easily now! Ha, it's easier to physically burn CDs/books than an electronic manifestation of it!
No amount of PR can ever fix this. Unfortunately (for them), the tech community is not so easily fooled.
NOTE to Amazon: Apple may have escaped applying DRM without financial loss for so many years, but don't think it can happen again! There are plenty of reasons why people dislike eBook readers, don't add to the list or you'll effectively kill a whole new market. Add DRM and you've killed it.
Oh yes,
When Amazon refunds a customer based on their preference, I see nothing wrong. However, when no consent if provided, that's a problem. Beyond hundred dollar textbook purchases, I think the benefit of being able to quickly receive a refund is not worth it.
I'm done with Kindle, but as a huge Amazon customer - I just may be done with them all together. These are grown-ups, they knew what they were doing, they knew the ramifications, and they chose to do it anyway. Why reward bad behavior with future purchases...
just wait till 2020, the book will be freely available then
unless..
This is great advertising for Amazon/Kindle :) What's next, Lars Ulrich logging into your pc and deleting all your downloaded metallica mp3s........
http://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/o/orwell/george/
gruss
Zyn
I don't see anyone talking about Amazon's criminal trespassing, interfering with a private computer system, destruction of computer data, vandalisom of a computer system, etc..
I compair it to a book store seeling you a book. Then later breaking into your home and trashing the place trying to find the book they should not have sold you. Then when you complain about the damage, they say they have refunded you back the price of the book. That would not fly in court if a book store did that, now would it? Why should this be any different? Everyone was HACKED by Amazon!
Jeff,
As you may recall I have long been a staunch supporter of digital books and an equally strong opponent of book banning. So I thought I should express my sentiment on the recent Orwellian irony.
Your actions have foreshadowed a world that I do not believe I want to come into being. I am accordingly canceling my Kindle account and placing my Kindle on the shelf next to my paperback copy of 1984.
Charles Stack