Toshiba's potent TG01 back on sale through O2 Germany
By Darren Murph 
posted July 18th 2009 11:48PM
posted July 18th 2009 11:48PM
[Thanks, Fab]
posted July 18th 2009 11:48PM
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This phone was on my watchlist for quite some time until I saw the hands on videos. For such a potent 1Ghz CPU, it's still rather slow and unresponsive. And now a virus thing? Bleh.
How did it get a virus, and what did it do?
There are a few reasons this phone is slow:
WM - The OS doesn't take advantage of the Snapdragons processor capabilities. It just utilizes its raw speed, but uses it like it would a standard Qualcomm processor.
A Bad ROM - Toshiba appears to have cooked a pretty shitty ROM (not a suprise). There was a video of this running a 6.5 rom and it appeared to be much faster and smoother.
Once again, XDA has to come in and save this phone.
@Ruben:
How come? Does WM have some sort of clock speed cap? Or is it like running a 4gb+ rig in 32bit architecture?
And do you know if XDA does have any plans to re-cook the ROM?
I think Ruben hit the nail on the head. The processor is wasted because of Toshiba's poorly done WinMo rom...check out Windows Mobile on a 528 mhz processor like the Treo Pro or even the HTC Snap, a lower end WinMo phone - both of these phones run WinMo 6.1 just fine and quite speedily (for WinMo that is.) Watching the hands on of the TG01 was painful - you'd think a 1 ghz processor, twice the power of the 528 mhz qualcomm chips, would have no problems running it, but apparently Toshiba's software engineers couldn't leave well enough alone.
@Matthew
Heres some info about Windows mobile:
# MS does NOT even have a compiler that can target higher than ARMv5 in the final assembly code. The CortexA8 TI OMAP3 is ARMv7. The MS compiler is quite behind the times, and there's no other "almost-free" alternative.
# the C/C++ compiler natively generates only ARMv4 code without some forced ARMv5 DSP intrinsics, and even that is very clunky code to write.
# the OS (including CE6 in WM 7) was NOT written to automatically support a native FPU. It has to be hacked into the OAL layer by the OEM to enable the ARM fpu, fpu exceptions handler, etc, and we know what a great job OEMs do. A lot of sub-decimal math IS used everywhere in the OS since WM derived from an x86 OS that always had a FPU at that point.
# the whole GDI graphics/UI layer in WinMo is an antiquated design predating modern OpenGL OSs so does not support delegate-based coding (except in slow slow slow .NET) or any hardware acceleration (not that it doesn't have some minimal support for HWA), and other UI design enhancements. Even Qt is more advanced than the Windows Mobile framework at this point.
# So it's definitely is a lot of work for anybody to smack WM6.5 into something usable for a modern phone cpu, and I rather have the TI experts do it than HTC, or Qualcomm..
Here's what I don't get. Why ship out a laggy half done product then? If WM 6.1/6.5 can't take advantage of the CPU why put it in there? Isn't it just going to increase the cost of the device overall when the performance is bottlenecked, or do certain applications allow it to use the full CPU power and/or it is better at multitasking? (More applications opened?)
*Sigh*, I really looked forward to this device...
@loosely_coupled
Great explanation. Took a little digging around to get the full picture, but I can see why WinMo behaves the way it does a little better now. Thank you-
@Ruben
Here's something interesting from the Xda site:
'It's fascinating to see how our collective work over the past years has changed the world of mobile devices. We've fixed otherwise semi-broken phones quite often. So now when a new devices comes out that is a bit lacking on the software side, everyone is willing to forgive the manufacturer because they are expecting us to fix it.'
Which refers to this line from The Inquirer, in regards to the poorly performing TG01:
'But then if you wait around for a few days website Xda-developers will surely have an Android ROM for the TG01...'
Another not so bad phone wasted on archaic Winmo...
i think we just need to wait the win 7 moblie and then see how this phone respond...
wow...a meaningful and helpful discussion on engadget? that's a first. hats-off to you guys.
The design is merely good enough. Which is just fine as far as Microsoft is concerned. The microsofties out there would like you to believe that any virus issue is purely related to how popular the platform is, nevermind how many iPhones there are out there, it's not a design issue and Windows is really, super 'ok'.
Steve, that would be a great argument except for the fact that you can't sideload apps onto an iPhone (without jailbreaking) whereas you can do pretty much whatever you want with WinMo. Since the vast majority of iPhone users only get their content from Apple, it's harder for bad things to happen - one of the benefits of a closed ecosystem. Since WinMo is more open, it stands to reason that there is a higher risk in terms of the security of the platform, since there are multiple ways to get malicious software onto a device. Not a problem with MS, a problem with having a more customizable and popular platform that gives users the ability to put things on their devices that are not directly from MS.
The two-seconds it takes to task-switch vs wait for overloaded bloatware multitask ain't a dealbreaker for me. Plus, what does multitask on iPhone without jailbreaking is what is important to me, getting/receiving calls while browsing Safari, Mail, Podcast downloads, and while listening to music in the background -what more do you want?
When does something like this come stateside with Win 7?? 2012?
What sort of ungodly marching golems are those?
(note: "golem" as in beings created from inanimate matter... wearing yellow disco boots)
It's Abiyoyo!
Cavity Creeps from Southpark.
http://www.southparkstudios.com/crap/downloads/preview/7573/
WE MAKE HOLES IN TEETH
Darren, say something to me. Plz.
Such a nice device, wasted *sigh*
Ive had WInMo devices for the past 3 years, HTC build some great phones but WiMo always lets them down, such a clunky ugly POS.
Ive tried 6.5 thanks to XDA devs to and its like putting a band-aid on a broken leg.
WinMo 7 cant come soon enough, for the time being, although i hate to admit it, i will have to use an iPhone *sigh*.
Looks like a bad copy of an iPhone judging by the form factor. Or was that intentional?
yeah, a rectangular touch screen phone is definitely and iphone copy. did you expect them to make it an octagon?
Maybe I'm just expecting other companies to not be clones? Too much to ask, you say?
@K
So when you see a laptop, do you think: 'Looks like a clone of the GRiD Compass 1100'
Consumers have a certain expectation as to how a consumer electronic device works, a certain physical archetype, and often times when a device strays beyond that scope it gets left behind (see: Rolly, Vaio VGX-TP1, MyLo... Man, Sony makes some goofy looking products). And even when a device does break the mold successfully (the Palm Pre, G1), it still is open to criticism. I don't know how many times I've heard 'OMFG THAT CHIN IS SO BIG!' (even though it looks great in my opinion).
Moreover, touchscreens are LCD based, yes? So they're pretty much limited to a square or rectangular form factor. The last time a company tried to change that, they ended up selling the phone for $5,000. Moreover, since it is a touchscreen phone, 95% of the front is taken up by the screen. There's just very little space to work with: a couple of buttons, trim, rounded/sharp corners, and the back plate are the only parts that I could think of.
And the fact that it's black. What's wrong with that? I'd say that 7/10 consumer electronic devices are black, and more so for professional devices, which I'd consider this phone to be (despite its silly GUI).
It's not like Toshiba or any other consumer electronics company completely lacks imagination, but they concede that the iPhone has set the standard for the touchscreen phone among the general consumer. Sure, there were others that had the black slate form factor before the iPhone came out, but love it or hate it, it was a game changer.
Design (especially ID) evolves, and revolutionary ideas rarely come out of nowhere, but rather are the culmination of everything that just makes sense.
I prefer a pac-tagon
:\
Matthew
Your arguments don't hold one bit of water. :) Look at BB Storm and G1 and you will agree they didn't attempt to copy the form factor of iPhone. Some tried to copy and it is obvious when you see it!
@Joshua T
I address this in my original argument:
'And even when a device does break the mold successfully (the Palm Pre, G1), it is still open to criticism. I don't know how many times I've heard 'OMFG THAT CHIN IS SO BIG!' (even though it looks great in my opinion).'
My point was that with the touchscreen-only format, there leaves very little room on the outside of the device for originality (come to think of it, that's probably why they had to resort to the goofy GUI). You can only push the envelope so far before the device becomes unappealing or unrecognizable. In addition, if you see the TG01 next to the iPhone, the size and matte border do make the device look distinct.
*dig dig dig*.
That was the sound of Matthew digging a hole. As if companies can't bring out original form factors even for touchscreen phones. It's just easier to rip off the iPhone and hope somebody buys your phone thinking it's an iPhone...cough LG cough.
What, so all those HTC phones and Dell Axims and stuff from years and years ago with large, rectanguar screens filling nearly the whole front face with just a couple of buttons beneath it were all iPhone clones? even 5 years before the iPhone came out?
Its a Candy Bar / Chocolate Bar style phone, rectangular and pocket size. You do know that was one of the shapes of cell phones long before the iPhone or touch screen phones existed right? Plus I don't really see where actually looks that close to an iPhone anyways. Look at most of the touch screen phones today and they have a button of some type in the center of the lower face which makes it far more closely resemble the iPhone than this phone. I believe it is you not Matthew that is digging a hole and trying to make it out that the iPhone created this form factor in the first place, which is completely wrong.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3078/3249678877_2e4f4cf62e.jpg - yep, nothing like it. The black edging border between the touchscreen and the edge of the face, shaping, etc. Cough. At least it runs awesome Winslow....lol.
@K
Would you like to answer phoenix's question about LCD devices prior to the iphone, or do you plan to ignore it still?
The iphone was certainly not the first device to feature a rectangular LCD touchscreen with little or no buttons on the front.
I bet you think apple invented the dock bar in OSX too, right? Silly little fanboys.
Can't Android be installed on this?
nice device, I was hoping it would of touched US side but it didn't....
CellGadget bringing you every cellphone ever released.
I'll never have another phone WinMo, no matter what version. I feel sorry for the people that think the next version M$ releases will solve all their problems. M$ keeps falling further & further behind to the point that I don't think they can ever get ahead of the curve, much less exceed expectations. They're into profit & could care less how their products perform. I'd love to see the Android phones use a 3.5" screen instead of the 3.1". If or when one is offered I'll immediately sell my iPhone & buy one. Android has the most flexibility & user control of any phone OS I have ever seen but with the such a small screen the fonts are just to hard to read & you can't change them or zoom anywhere other than the browser.
hmmm... why don't we wait til winmo actually comes out first before making judgments. winmo 6.1 in it's basic form sucks donkey balls and 6.5 isn't much better, but i'm running it with the sbp 3.0 shell and it's not too bad.you should try out this piece of miracle programming. it's more than just lipstick on a pig. what i'm trying to say is that winmo got potential.
"I'll never have another phone WinMo, no matter what version"
That is a bold statement.
Has a winmo phone hurt or dissapointed you so much?
Microsoft had dropped the ball on the mobile os front and let others step in because they along with blackberry had the business sector cornered but their mistake was that the business sector was never going to be the largest market.
All I am saying is that now in their ever slow manner they have realised and are working on improving that. For you to totally dismiss any future efforts, which from rumours (zune or xbox intergration) sound interesting, is a bit sweeping.
I am yet to use android but from what I can see it is a 'has potential' OS for now. You and others are willing to wait for it to mature (and great it will be when it does) but not willing to give MS the chance to update/overhaul winmo. WinMo7 with zune, xbox live arcade (possibly), next version of .NETCF, silverlight mobile (framework and maybe UI), marketplace should be worth the consideration.
"hmmm... why don't we wait til winmo actually comes out first before making judgments"
I was under the impression Windows Mobile was and has been out for some time. Saying to wait for the next version to come out, and the next version after that and so on is not really an answer.
I use a Windows Mobile phone atm, tried it with the 6.1 that came on the phone and with 6.5 on it. Either way it has a lot of short-comings. And personally its not even worth using at all without adding some sort of add on UI like Spb or Wisbar Advance Desktop (what I use, but tried them both and a couple others as well) and some other applications just to reach what I see as a useable level.
What it does do great is the outlook/exchange push/sync and office mobile is pretty well done. But the memory management, responsiveness and application management is simply craptastic.
What's that wall paper? Golden boots lol. I hate to hear bad news about something new. Like with the pre and build qulity issues. And the dissapointment I felt when I heard the crappy list of new features on the iPhone 3gs. ( while I'm a iPhone addict, had the 1st get and now posting from a 3gs) It's like come on take your time get it right and don't tease us with press info 12 month prior to just rush a product. That will have issues when released. I mean come on virus out breaks? This is just about on level with the blackberry BS with releasing the storm with beta software I mean someone needed to lose their job overthat one. Anyway love the screen size love the processor hope to see this do great things in the market. Thank goodness I've never had the pleasure of owning a winmo divide so I don't know how good or bad they actually are.
I have positively seen this device on Movistar stores here in Spain since at least a week, and it is featured in their July offer catalog. I don't know if it's really in stock or just demo models, but it's there.
I've been using WinMo 6.5 on my HTC Touch Diamond 2 (thanks to XDA), and I actually like it quite a lot. The new home screen works great, yes it's fast, and the Exchange/Outlook push-mail synchronisation works like a charm as usual, as is the excellent support for Office documents. Those are the essential features I need in a smartphone in my day-to-day (business) life, after hours I mostly enjoy the Facebook and Twitter apps, that's it.
It's a new generation thing. Personally, I think it's a nice phone but it's the first generation so there is bound to be problems that will eventually be deduced and solved by future generations. I also agree with others in waiting for WM6.5 to be incorporated.
Does it have multitouch? Has anyone else here actually tried RDP or VNC in these devices? They all suck. On an iPhone, RDP is way better with gestures that aren't even available in the native OS you RDP into (two and three finger taps and strokes to right click and scroll). Such a shame that M$ won't even look at the iPhone to at least learn from it. It's pretty pathetic when a competetive mobile device connects and manages your desktop better then your own native product. They'll never figure out how to pinch and squeeze on a mobile device if this and windows surface is all they have to learn from. So sad.
every time i read the comments on a touchscreen-base cellphone, i saw the iphone-like or not battle -_-\\