Palm complains about Apple to USB governing body, while Pre / iTunes sync "fix" is explained
By Ross Miller 
posted July 24th 2009 5:41PM
posted July 24th 2009 5:41PM
"Unauthorized use of assigned or unassigned USB Vendor ID Numbers and associated Product ID Numbers are strictly prohibited."The implication here is that Palm believes Apple is violating this stature by disallowing certain Vendor IDs -- namely, Palm's -- from using iTunes. So how'd Palm manage to "fix" that syncing hole Apple managed to fill? From the looks of it, by misrepresenting its own Vendor ID, so that the Pre now shows up as a iPod / mass storage device made by Apple (ID 0x05ac) as opposed to one by Palm (ID 0x083) -- hence the complaint. Of course, lying about your own ID would seem to break with the aforementioned rule, too, so what we're left here is some muddled grey area and Palm apparently being okay with fudging some data to correct what it sees is an injustice. If anyone's curious, DVD Jon points out that the root USB Node is still identified as "Pre," so we very likely could see another round of these shenanigans in the not-too-distant future.
Finally, now's as good of a time as any to take a look at some of the peripheral casualties from this war of attrition. In an essay on his personal site that's been circulating the interwebs, Marc Deslauriers outlines the pangs he and the Linux community have felt over the years trying to use iPods on the open source platform, surmising that Apple is intentionally and repeatedly seeking ways to block non-iTunes programs from syncing in any way with its devices. This story is far from over, and as ugly as it looks now, it's probably only gonna get worse.
[Via Digg and Pre Central]
Read - Marc Deslauriers, "Goodbye Apple"
Read - Palm's lodges complaint with USB IF
Read - USB Vendor ID application
Read - Palm Pre USB hack confirmed
well one this is for sure: the ignorance on this issue guarantees we will keep hearing about until palm finally goes bankrupt and probably long after.
I am not a fan of any company that pushes their weight around. I happen to like Apple products and regardless of my allegiance I will be unbiased on how I see this. I think Apple has every right to limit what MP3 players can sync with its software. Suppose you bought a Sony camcorder that came with really great software. Would you chastise Sony that the software does not work with a Canon device??? If the PRE is so wonderful, then Palm should have developed their own interface that works on a MS or OSX platform. I happen to own an iPhone and I'm not crazy about iTunes to begin with. Guess what?? I use third party software to sync my device. If I download a song from Frostwire I can easily put it on my iPhone without the need for iTunes. This whole issue is a silly pissing match and no one is really going to triumph. Palm.... get over it and instead of crying, develop a slick interface that will make iTunes look like crap. That's the way they should settle it.
Palm to the world: Waaaa!
Palm has a funny way of defining "improper use of vendor IDs". Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. They're committing an act of electronic identity theft.
Idk if anyone has said this (hope someone has..i stopped reading after the second page cuz the comments were...*no comment* lol)
monopolies are NOT illegal...Apple has a monopoly on iPods and iTunes...duh, they made them...they own the largest music retailer...BUT they do NOT deny you to use the music with other devices....that's why they REALLY REALLY wanted DRM free music...otherwise they WOULD be in trouble....it's NOT illegal to only have software work with your hardware.....is it annoying and lock down?yes...does it frustrate consumers? sure.....but does HP let you use their scanner software with Canon scanners?no....their software works with their hardware....and i can list many other examples.
Now what IS illegal is the leverage the power of that monopoly to destroy the competition....MS has problems because it used its monopoly on Windows anticompetitively and threatened its partners and so on....they DONT have problems simply because they just bundled IE....they actually did more than just bundle the browser..but you guys should read the history...
So Apple is monopolistic...but they dont do anything illegal with their "power"...and as long as they dont...they wont get sued for antitrust anything
I dont think Palm did the right tricking iTunes....I see it as morally wrong for a company to piggyback on someone else's work...I do think iTunes should be open...offer some plug-in support or something that companies have to code to sync with iTunes and Apple can just add a section on the use agreement that says that they are not responsible for non-apple devices...
You stole the words from my mouth. Great post!
A bit tacky that Apple would stoop so low to aggravate supporters of the competition, but tackier still that Palm is trying to take it to court when they've already addressed the issue in-house. Let's play nice, children...
Go Palm! And may the FORCE be with you.
How is disallowing a Vendor ID 'improper use'? If Palm are using this, then they are really desperate (and stupid)
Apple doesn't want to play with others and is taking their ball with them. I say fine. Let them alienate possible future customers.
There are two completely separate issues being jumbled up together here:
- Apple allowing others to sync with iTunes
- Apple allowing others to write software that syncs with an iPod/iPhone
For the first, it's Apple's software, and they have every right to prevent others from syncing with iTunes. You wouldn't expect an old-school Palm to sync with ActiveSync, or a Windows Mobile device to sync with the old Palm Desktop, would you? "But the iTunes Store isn't their music and videos..." No, you're right, and if you buy something from the iTunes store, you're welcome to download it using iTunes, move it over to the syncing program of your choice, at least with the music - it's all DRM free. Or just use one of the competitor music stores, like Amazon. Either way, there's no reason Apple has to allow others to sync with iTunes... and it's in Apple's fiduciary interest to try and sell as many iPhones and iPods as possible, so of course Apple is going to want to keep iTunes only syncing with their stuff.
As for the other thing, Apple not allowing others to write software that syncs with an iPhone or iPod... yeah, that's kind of a questionable move, but a completely separate issue from the Pre/Apple mess.
And for Palm to go to the USB IF and complain that Apple is abusing the vendor ID number, when Apple is just using the number exactly the way it is designed to be used, that's kind of stupid. Not knowing all the technical details, in my earlier example, I wouldn't be surprised if that's how ActiveSync recognizes a Windows Mobile device and syncs with it, and Palm Desktop software recognizes a Palm PDA, and so on, and so forth. Plus, for them to complain to the USB IF, when they are proactively (and quite CLEARLY) abusing the vendor ID system by masquerading as a vendor ID that THEY WERE NOT ASSIGNED... that's brave of them, and REALLY stupid. Frankly, if I were the USB IF, I'd tell Palm to take a hike - then yank their USB certification for abusing the vendor ID system.
If I was a shareholder in Palm I would be pissed. Palm went all in on the PRE, it’s their last chance to make it. The last thing they need is to risk it all on a pissing match that could make them lose their shirt. They can’t last long in a drawn out legal battle against Apple with +20 billion in the bank. To me, this just shows how bad they WANT/NEED the PRE to win.
I do want the PRE to do well, its apples only true competitors (I think). But with these tactics, I don’t know how anybody can stand behind them, this is just wrong. And I would imagine illegal. Maybe trademark infringement? I just don’t see how impersonating a competitor’s product is legal. No matter what you think of iTunes!
I really think this is just a publicity stunt to draw an invisible line of good guy / bad guy. Buy our products not the company that locks you in.
And for the record I am perfectly content with iTunes, the media solution I CHOOSE!
It amazes me how many people view this as stealing. It's a huge WTF. My hand is tired from all the face-palming.
All Palm is doing is getting iTunes to sync with their device, rendering the transition path easier for their customers. Nothing is being blocked there, and iTunes is not recommended outright.
If that's stealing by your logic, then how about MacOS reading NTFS file systems? Is Crossover and the Wine project something like a nuclear bomb?
apparentley palm doesn't know how to make its own media syncing app that syncs all your computers music like RIM does. Excluding the DRM protected music obviously.
@mikee - good comment.
It really grates me how people use metaphors so poorly :(
funny people, apple haters. first, you say you hate having to use itunes, then you cheer palm for using itunes to sync the pre. if itunes is indeed rubbish, why then does palm bother? palm should just craft their own software and make it better than the "rubbish" itunes. why do you moan using itunes to sync the iphone/ipod and then want to use the same itunes to sync the pre? i thought you said itunes was rubbish? why dont you all encourage palm to write their own sync app? if as you say the webOS is better than iphone OS then it stands to reason that palm should go the extra mile and make their own itunes-like app.
but no, palm would rather steal everything from apple's iphone, from UI to ipod ID. shame on you palm, i hope the Pre fails because its a rubbish clone of the iphone down there with the likes of the hiphone and other KIRF knockoffs. being a bit original could have saved them.
also, whining about apple using monopoly tactics to coerce users into using itunes is plain rubbish. one, you dont HAVE to buy and use apple products, get a pre or some other non-apple pmp and sync with musicmatch or winamp or whatever. second, you dont even pay for the itunes software. so why moan? amazon mp3 store is always there.
someone here is in love with the word "rubbish" but i do agree. people say itunes is garbage then cheer for palm to use itunes.it shows you how the blind hatred and envy over apple makes people stupid. my lg voyager(which sucks btw) doesn't sync with itunes, it doesn't even work with my mac. but no one had complaints about that. so why all the uproar over the Pre?
Mate, I hope the explanation to your stupidity is simply down syndrome.
What if I love this useless rubbish iTunes thing? I have a Pre, and I want to be able to sync all that music I bought using my "rubbish" iTunes with the Pre I bought. No, I was not forced to use iTunes. But then again you are also not forced to use other brands like Microsoft when you like or need something they do/manufacture.
Imbecile.
wow, i really did go nuts with the word "rubbish" back there. well, not my fault. its all those rubbish apple haterz
In the future, there will be only one company. APPLE.
Um isn't this the same as Sony suing/complaing against Nintendo for not allowing Wii and Nintendo games/controls/franchises to work/appear on the PS3?
Apple being a douche? NAAAAA. That never happens!
if microsoft did what apple did.. all hell would break loose...