Vice President Biden announces $2.4 billion in battery-related grants
By Donald Melanson 
posted Aug 5th 2009 5:17PM
posted Aug 5th 2009 5:17PM
It hasn't been much of a secret that the US government was planning to dole out a couple of billion in battery-related grants to automakers this week, but we only got the details on who gets what today when Vice President Joe Biden made the big announcement himself in Detroit. As you might expect, the big three automakers all got a sizable chunk of the $2.4 billion up for grabs, with GM snagging $240 million for three separate grants, Ford getting $92.7 million (part of which will fund an electric-drive-parts facility in Michigan), and Chrysler receiving $70 million to develop and deploy advanced plug-in hybrid pickups and minivans. The single biggest winner, however, is Johnson Controls Inc., which got close to $300 million to produce battery parts for hybrid and electric vehicles. Chrysler partner A123 Systems Inc. was the next highest with $249.1 million, while EnerDel got $118.5 million that it'll use for its Indianapolis plant that produces lithium-ion cells and battery packs.
[Image courtesy Wood TV8]
[Image courtesy Wood TV8]
Nothing says a winning investment like only being able to get funding from the feds. But I'm sure they know what they are doing, investing my money into these businesses. But whatever, this kind of money is chump change to our state run economy.
Yay for more government largess!
"But I'm sure they know what they are doing, investing my money into these businesses."
The problem with our government and it's people lies in that statement right there... I'll bet you support Obama-care too?
Wow, they took the gag off of Biden?
@ Andir3.0
I hope you get a pre-existing condition.
STFU and keep paying your premiums, sheep.
They wasted too much money on this now + the bailout money they gave them
With all that money they could have made a Nation car manufacture
Investing implies it has to be paid back. It doesn't say "LOANS $2.4 billion", it says grants, as in: here, you don't have to give any of this back.
Another Day, Another Billion.
Good thing the govt is trying to do something. That Holy "Free Market" that a lot of people talk about is slow as hell, and there isn't a lot of incentive to change when these companies already make tons of money.
@LongshotX
if they make so much money why are all of them on verge of collapse? Oh ya, union workers!
the average american makes ~$40,000 yet the average GM union worker makes$60,000 (after OT)
how can you produce a car meant for the average person when you average employee makes 1.5x your target market?
you dumb POS
@wiizer
have fun getting heart care over 59, Sheep.
@ Brian
Have fun spouting unverified half-truths, sheep.
You probably think Obama doesn't have a birth certificate, either.
@super: Have you even read the bill?
I remember when buying votes was considered corruption.
@ murmermer
Where did you get that stat line....Rush Limbaugh?
http://www.salarylist.com/all-real-jobs-salary-at-general-motors-corp.htm
^ right here is where I received my info
Rush Limbaugh is a pill popper, I'm more of a Michael Savage/ Glen Beck kind of guy
and your more of Al Gore a$$ sucker that is to busy killing babies and giving MY money away to realize OUR country will be no more powerful than france or england
crap... I pasted the fanatical one :p There are quite a few half-truths in that...
Here, it's just easier and less prone to fanaticism if you read it yourself. This IS YOUR life we are talking about:
http://waysandmeans.house.gov/media/pdf/111/AAHCA09001xml.pdf
Looks like Andir is trying to get himself reported to the Whitehouse. What time do you think the Gestapo will show up at your front door?
@ murmermer
You're a complete mess if you follow that psycho, Glen Beck. I'm not even going to start with you.
@ Andir3.0
Gee, thanks for that wall of text that has nothing to do with any thought process you may have had in posting this propaganda... Have YOU read the 1,018 page bill? Because it's my job to read it.
Let's highlight a couple of these embarrassing lies for the public, shall we?
"Page 22 of the HC Bill: Mandates that the Govt will audit books of all employers that self insure!!"
First of all, the HB section in question starts on page 21.
"(2) REPORTS.—Not later than 18 months after
the date of the enactment of this Act, the Commissioner
shall submit to Congress and the applicable
agencies a report on the study conducted under
paragraph (1)."
That's not an audit... That is a survey of how much the employer-insured subsidies should cost based in the current private insurance market, you fear-mongering idiot! It's no different than what you do NOW! Shopping for the right insurance for your family... Oh wait, you can't do that!
Private insurance without an employer's subsidy is IMPOSSIBLE TO PAY FOR ON YOUR OWN!
Anyway, next one:
"Page 30 Sec 123 of HC bill - THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benefits you get."
Well, duh. Obama has been discussing this in his speeches; a committee headed by the surgeon general – who's going to figure out what benefits will get paid for and what won't. Hmmm, what does that sound like?
AETNA decided that my brother's pre-existing heart condition wouldn't be covered? I can't even appeal that! With this program, we can debate about what will be covered and what will not be covered!
To be honest, since all pre-existing conditions will be covered, the debatable stuff is probably plastic surgeries and abortions (which I think the Dems should stop being pussies about and just say it's going to be covered because it's a woman's right to choose, but whatever...)
Anyway, I'm done for tonight. If you want more, you know where to find me.
I can't afford a personal insurance plan on my own?
You really believe that? I just got a quote for myself...It's between $31.54 and $109 a month depending on my deductibles/coinsurance/office visit costs. That's more than affordable considering I spend more than that on Cable each month. Since I'm a responsible adult and put money back for emergencies, I can choose the one with a $5k deductible (and even if I wasn't... I'm sure family would help me) and this has a $35 copay for office visits. If I really cared, I could get top class no pay awesome coverage for that $100/month mark. Most people probably pay more than that at the mall in a single day.
The fact of the matter is that I don't need Health insurance at my point in life and I choose to accept the standard coverage that my work offers me in case. I can afford an annual checkup out of my pocket without a problem (also, because I put money back instead of buying some overpriced car or TV.)
I don't see why I should have to pay for your inability to plan your life.
Here you go... bid for yourself:
http://www.ehealthinsurance.com/
There may be problems with some people covering it, but this plan IS NOT the way to fix it. Most of the expense and cost is because of government programs and requirements as it is. The government inflated the overhead of Healthcare and now they are trying to blame the heavy expenses on the Insurance companies? Also, don't call me a fear monger, Obama is doing well enough on his own. There are several videos of his speeches out there that can prove that.
Another note. If costs are so bad and the HC system is so corrupt, then why is our Cancer survival rate so much better than the rest of the world? Why can I go to Wal-Mart and get $4 prescriptions?
Yeah, we are really hurting. /rolleyes
Eh, I've been living off of research grants for a while. The government's the best supplier for reliable funding. Actually, when you come to think about the costs of actually doing this research (salaries, overhead, Prototyping) the individual award sizes migh be a little too small.
It sounds like wiizer works 4 acorn. Wiizer you are lucky the 1st amendment is protecting you because it would take everything inside of me not to drag you and your communist family out back and give them a reason to see how good our healthcare system is in this country.
It's okay guys, the US government has a machine that can print money.
Hope for change, and then report those who dissagree.
“The Democrat war on dissent reached a peak this week when the White House posted a blog entry urging the president’s followers to find people who criticize the president, even “in casual conversation,” and forward the information to flag@whitehouse.gov. That is a brazen attempt to bully people into silence by leading them to believe any statements critical of the president will land them on the new version of the ‘White House enemies list.’”
Welcome to the USSA.
@ Andir3.0
I'm sure you think your plan is full-proof, but just wait until you lose your job, or your employer finds out what a douche you are and decides to fire you.
This is about the future of the healthcare system, and unbeknownst to you, is going the way of the stock market.
I hate idiots like you that say, "Oh, it's not my problem! I'm living in my little picket-fenced house, and everything's a-okay!" BUT, when everything falls through in a recession, you're THE FIRST to blame everyone but yourselves.
I hope you at least listen to this: the health care system is going to crash, and if you're not a part of the solution, you're part of the problem.
OMG... Help me out here. There was 25 Billion set aside for this research during the Bush admin. And it took them 2 years to give out the money this past June. The money to develop electric cars which and help here.... use batteries. So why the hell are we give more money 2.4 billion more to research and develop something that we have already spent money to research and develop. Especailly since they have not spent all of the 25 billion that was already set aside.
Engadget article:(hell I did not even have to leave engadget to find the articles about this stuff)
http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/28/25-billion-in-electric-vehicle-loans-still-waiting-for-perfect/
oh wait another engadget article and go like 6 billion goes to Ford.
http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/23/tesla-ford-nissan-all-receive-electric-car-development-loans-f/
I am so assamed I voted for these jokers.
That is refreshing to hear, goodfellow. I'm glad I'm not the only one who is flabbergasted by the amount of money Obama is spending...
The government moves not at the speed of light, have patience and sooner or later the money will flow to where it's needed.
Besides, this still seems marginally better than giving away $4000 rebates for fuel-efficient vehicles that aren't really all that efficient. Sure do hope they stick to their word in not taxing the mid-class more, though I'm not counting on it.
but biden is white, so its ok!
"Sure do hope they stick to their word in not taxing the mid-class more, though I'm not counting on it."
Last Sunday, some Obama flunkies, when asked, said they didnt rule out hiking taxes to pay for Obamacare.
Better buy those gadgets real quick, before Obama runs the national debt card through the cash register again.
"Obamacare"?
well, at least those morons figured out how to use all three brain cells to come up with that. :)
Cash for Clunkers was more of a political move to support unions... it had nothing to do with the economy.
2 billion to electric BATTERIES!!!
16 Billion to fight Poverty (which in most cases they are responsible for)
700 BILLION TO DEFENSE!!!!
AWESOME!! AMERICA, FUCK YEAH!
And where does Tesla fit into this 2.4 billion??
in your garage silly!
Tesla got all the money they asked for.
http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/06/23/the-government-comes-through-for-tesla-with-a-465-million-loan-for-its-electric-sedan/
i coulda sworn the auto industry got all the money they wanted during the first bailout...
im sure tesla would ask for more if they were a greedy conglomerate like GM
Good, I'm glad they have a teleprompter there, so we know there's some chance he got all the details right!
Biden is the smartest man on earth, if you ask him he will tell you all about it, and that's why he almost failed college... It didn't "challenge" him enough
This money will be tossed down the rathole and never produce anything whatsoever.
Isn't this LESS than the amount that was going to the F-22 that the democrats killed? And that WAS producing something usable and jobs at the same time? Can't we vote the democrats out yet?!?
Your statement is so full of fail that it should not be read by ANYONE. Yes lets build more multi million dollar fighter planes that we all get to enjoy so much, instead of investing the money in rechargeable car battery manufacturers that people can actually use that will create a SUSTAINABLE job market, not a build 50 more death planes.
Holy freaking crap you repubs are so whacked out on i dont know what kind of goofballs. Im sure your GOB's are writing a new script for arguing this right now.
Haha yeah let's build more jets! ECONOMY SAVED BECAUSE IT CARRIES MISSLES!
LOL!!
Um, it could be 'country saved via military' you know. People these days are so damn stupid. Bash military spending that actual produces stuff.. But they support endless entitlement programs and 'wars on poverty' that go nowhere because people aren't ENTITLED to money, they have to EARN it.
HA! Even the Pentagon didn't want the F-22, or rather didn't want MORE F-22's than they already have.
You know it's the GOP when war is the greatest economic engine they can think of
The YF-22 program was canceled in favor of the cheaper and more versatile F-35. The F-22 was originally designed in the late 80's early 90's to be an air superiority fighter to meet and beat the soviets fourth gen fighters and the rumored stealth aircraft that we still haven't seen (the PAK-FA). The F-35 will have a much greater range of capabilities - later production F-22's have been fitted with a ground attack capability, but it won't be as capable as the F-35. The F35 is fitted with a Distributed Appature System - when combined with a helmet mounted display, the pilot will be able to look 360 degrees as though the airframe was see through. This much greater situational awareness combined with the open architecture of the software will mean that this airframe will be able to be continually upgraded, unlike the F-22. The F-22 supposedly cost $200M apiece, the F-35 should be less than half that for a far more versatile airframe. The F22 is really the last relic of the cold war.
@Zenner
Ah, no.
The F-22 isn't as versatile in equipment sense, but it is much more maneuverable and quicker than the F-35. In a war where our enemy was that of Germany in WW2, if we only had F-16s and F-35s we would be destroyed by the Superior craft. On top of that, let's not forget that the F-22 and the F-35 aren't even made for the same missions.
@Brian
i dont think you see the potential of the F-35. When in service it will become the 2nd best air to air fighter and the world's best bomber. I want to also add the F-22 is a big waste of money when the competition is not there. Even Donald H. Rumsfeld felt this way > http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1462700/posts.
in other news, iPhone 3GSXII battery to exceed 4 minutes
Let's hope Apple applied for this grant!
(BTW, I'm still on a 1st gen iPhone)
That's a horrible photo. I can tell by the pixels.
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Seems to have worked for Bush right? Right? Lets go less oversight and more power to the corporations to rape me for everything im worth and discard me like the worker bot you all want us to be.
That's $8 for every man, woman and child in this country. So, this ass hat just took another $32 out of my pocket.
When will these idiots learn: IT'S NOT THEIR FRACKING MONEY!!!!!!!! I've had just about ENOUGH of the out of control spending. We can't afford it. Who is going to pay for all of this? Obama's budget is 3.6 trillion dollars. That's 12 grand for every man, woman and child. My family's share is $48,000. I don't have $48,000 to give them. Worse, the welfare recipients across town have no money at all. Who is going to pay their $12k share? I guess I'll get to pay part of that, too. I'm not sure how, given I can't afford my own share.
Who is going to stop these idiots? They're like Paris Fracking Hilton out with Daddy's credit card.
I've had just about enough of this shit.
Keep posting on engadget about it, I'm sure that's the best option.
Or write to someone in government...?
You fail at assuming I can't do both of these and then some. I call and/or write these idiots on a daily basis. So do millions of other Americans. You know what we've found? They don't care. They're going to do whatever they're going to do regardless of what we say.
You do realize you are getting bent out of shape about imaginary play money and other things that dont exist right? When you say WE cant afford it, do you also mean that we cant afford the multiple war fronts we are engaged in? Iraq alone has cost over 1 trillion and that number was from 2006, can we afford that? Just imagine how much it has cost now, and what is the benefit? Dead Americans. Thats right all that a couple of trillion dollars has bought you is dead citizens, how about that spending?
I Dont know about you but ill take batteries over more dead americans.
that's some great whining you got goin on there
Yes, it took bush 6-8 years to get us to a trillion dollars in debt. It took obama 6 months to triple that number. And on what? More money for greedy wall street, more money for the unions of GM workers who bankrupted the company in the first place, more money to buy out and eliminate private healthcare?
I'll take a spend thrifty republican over a spend thrifty democrat any day of my existence.
Though I'd rather have the country the founding fathers framed with the constitution, as opposed to this abomination and bastardization we live in now. The federal government has two jobs: protecting the nation (military), and international trade. Everything else was to be left to the STATES. Welfare? States. Social Security? States. Health Care? States. And if the voters of the states didn't want any of that garbage, they didn't have to have it or the government taking 1/4 to a half of their money to fund it.
Want to solve the energy crisis? Dig up the founding fathers, stick an axel through their body, and generate electricity from all the spinning that they're doing now a'days.
We need another revolution.
No Yoda... they do notice. But now (and as evident by this thread) they are trying to put up false ad hominem arguments to try to make us look like fakes. These arguments include, but are not limited to:
1. Evil companies are paying us to:
a. hold TEA parties
b. write our congressmen
c. disturb town hall meetings with our questions...
2. It's just the Republicans upset that they lose the election
3. They are just racists
4. These are fake grass roots movements paid for by the GOP
And many more. Frankly I'm sick of it. I have not received one red cent for any of my time. I care about the country I live in and I hope to see it flourish and benefit from it doing so. Supporting failing (and doomed to fail) policies and programs does nothing for us but give more money to those with political ties in both parties.
They fabricate lies on how we are paid by big business and it's frankly quite pathetic when your representatives call you a liar or a shill for caring.
Wow they took a virtual $8 bucks from you :o to give you hundred worth of saving on electric cars and saving a few trillion into fixing the pollution and unemployment later, but still, 8 bucks, WHAT ARE THEY THINKING?
Actually, about a third of the budget is borrowed, and of actual tax income about 45% comes from personal taxes. So your actual tab is $2.40 now, $2.66 later (lets call it $3 given interest payments).
So if this program saves your family $22 bucks the next time you buy a car, it just stimulated your economy. You're welcome.
@Chris:
Neither will work.. We have to take it from their selfish hands by force. People are just too afraid but there's a limit when people will have had enough. you'll see.
so how did you feel about giving your money to blackwater, halliburton, kbr, etc over the last decade?
Here's the thing - I know the left wing folks in this thread are testing me with the war comments. So I'm going to reply with my blunt, honest opinion: I supported the war early on, but I no longer do. I voted for Bush Junior during his first term and quickly got what I had coming to me, so I refused to support him the second time (I voted for Badnarik). I do not support our rate of military spending. I DO support our military and I believe we need to have the strongest, most powerful military in the world, and I don't mind paying taxes to support that.
However, I am sick and tired of the United States playing World Police. Who elected us to that bullshit position? Why do we have to spend trillions of dollars of our money running around the world, interfering with the foreign affairs of other nations? If an ally asks for help, we should consider each circumstance individually. Otherwise, we have no business running overseas wars and bases and stationing our men and women all over the world on a continuing basis. This does not provide our country with security. You want security? Bring our military home - all of them, in every nation - shut down overseas basis and post our troops on the border. Let's get a proper guest worker program going so it's easy for farmers to hire Mexicans who want to do the work, and shoot anyone else who tries to sneak in the back door.
So, coyo, I am equally pissed about the money Bush and his cronies spent on Blackwater, Haliburton, etc. And Tsing, I do not support this idiotic war. We had business in Afghanistan after 9/11, but we're obviously inept as Bin Ladin is still on the loose. We had no business in Iraq. I know Saddam was a bad person and I'm glad he's gone, but really, how the hell should that be our job? How should it be our problem? Why do you and I have to pay for this shit? If the Iraqi people won't stand up and take care of their own shit, then screw them.
And yes, I'm pissed about the electric car thing. It's not the federal government's job to take my money and use it to force feed me an electric car. Guess what, if I want an electric car, I'll buy one. I don't want the government's "help" and it's not their job, anyway. The federal government is so far beyond what they are constitutionally authorized to be it's insane! Virtually all of their programs are unconstitutional. The whole damn thing needs to be dismantled and we need to start over, and I will not rest until that has happened.
@Yodman,
You're also aware that this was a publically announced grant, right? Had you been affiliated with an R01/21 institution (or whatever the qualifier on the grant was..I'm guessing) you too could have applied and most likely been funded?
@KTaylor - Why would I want to apply for funding from a program I disapprove of?
I see a recurring theme here with a few of the responses, including yours. You seem to think I'm going to change my mind and believe this is all OK if only I can be convinced there's something in it for me. Like the earlier poster, who suggested I might some day save money on an electric car. The idea is, "Hey, don't knock it. You could reap some benefit from it. There's something in it for you, man."
That's incredibly selfish and self-centered. I don't care if Obama himself gave me a million bucks out of that program and told me to go buy a new Lamborghini for myself, I still don't support it! It's immoral and unethical to take the earnings of others and reallocate them on pet programs like this. I'm getting really tired of hearing how wonderful all of this spending is. It's not their money to spend! They stole it from the citizens of this country, from the people who actually went out and earned it, and they have no right.
Constitutionally, the federal government has no authority to do any of this. As Crono stated, they have the authority to build and maintain our military and to regulate international trade, but little else. The rest of it is up to the states. We're starting to see the effects of an out of control federal government right now, as more and more states are beginning to assert their rights under the tenth amendment. I predict an intense backlash against the federal government to take hold over the next couple of years, with sweeping changes made on the state level to ursurp the feds' unconstitutional powers.
People like Tsing above just have no clue what they are talking about, and as usual want to resort to censorship so nobody can hear criticism. Government investment in this stuff will not help. It never has, never will. It's a total waste of money. All this spending is just a DROP IN THE BUCKET compared to what's coming with obamacare and cap and tax. If the democrats get their way, our way of living will just about be gone. They are accelerating all the wrong things Bush was doing by 50 times.
"Government investment in this stuff will not help. It never has, never will."
That's kind of a spectacular overstatement, don't you think? Are you absolutely certain that government investment into technology has never helped? Because offhand, I can think of about half a dozen cases in which it helped a great deal.
Without your hated government spending you would have no phone line. Who do you think laid most of the copper in this country. Pro tip: not ma bell.
I'm assuming that 'battery' means 'the beating of others'?
Tsing, this isn't a Republican vs. Democrat issue. They're all a bunch of idiots. Bush and his cronies engaged in insane amounts of deficit spending, too. Stop painting this as if the Republicans are evil corporation lovers while the Democrats are all about the people. Neither one of them represents us. Both of them take our money by force and give it to people who didn't earn it and don't deserve it - and most of those "people" they give the money to are corporations.
Both parties have setup an elite ruling class for themselves and structured the system as so to lord over the rest of us. They have their own health care and their own retirement plans. They neither contribute to nor do they need social security, and they will neither contribute to nor use the new health plans. Why do they care how badly they frack the system for the rest of us? The system doesn't apply to them; they have their own special plans.
If Americans had any sense we'd de-throne these assholes immediately and strip away all the special privileges they voted for themselves, every last one of them.
They should be giving the money to fundamental battery tech research that will improve capacity by 10 to 100x .. which is sorely lacking funds. Giving money to the car makers is idiotic.
Current battery technology sucks .. it will harm the economy and this is a waste.
Well you see, a lot of the researched stuff, especially the ones promising 10x or 100x times the capacity won't be ready for commercial use for many years. When you give it to the automakers they can make less significant improvements but at least they can get going in like 1 or 2 years.
Seriously, LET USE AUTO MAKERS DIE!!!!!!! they just keep borrowing money and more and more!!!
I'm also surprised to see tons of NYPD Nissan and toyota prius cars lol.....
What, Tesla motors gets nothing? An actual electric car making company gets nothing?
I posted a relevant response earlier... this has nothing to do with the economy or innovation and everything to do with union politics.
So now I can beat the crap outta my wife and the gubment's gonna pay me too? SAAAWEEET!!!
What you have to do, is beat your wife, and then sue her for hurting your hands. But, instead of actually suing her, you should sue the government or the company she works for, because you can't that much money out of her...
Though I'm not quite sure what your comment has to do with the article.
battery: (n) an unlawful attack upon another person by beating or wounding, or by touching in an offensive manner.
Chin up, buddy. Take a little break. The internet will be back tomorrow.
EEStor is gonna pwn all of them!
Eestor didn't get a cent. I want to believe, but I'm more into fact than faith. Let me know when they have a demonstrable prototype.
At this point they have raw components of a theoretical electrical storage device and a few vague patent applications.
you are both right. if... IF eestor gets a working prototype out through zenn by year end, that will be that, as proof of concept (not publicly verifiable mind you) is there, this one will be off the mass production line, which means "pwn" indeed. however, if it doesn't work, then that sucks and back to the drawing board. at this point, both options are equal i'd say, except that one of the zenn guys himself invested his own money into eestor, so that i'd say gives an edge to it having a favorable outcome.
I find it interesting that no one considers the "green" industry a special interest group. We're putting all of our funding into another special interest group, but because people think it's good for the environment, no one complains about it. Look how much money we funnel into green energies...if the technology was really that great, we have plenty of investors who specifically invest in green industries who would invest in those technologies.
The "green" industry is a bubble industry, much like the internet in 2000-2001 and housing in the past few years. However, it is greatly government fueled (incentives, regulation, investments) and a lot of investors will lose money when it implodes. In the meantime, the US is betting its medium-term growth prospects on it, which is good because it is the best path out of the recession (consumption won't do it by itself). Government investments lost will be partially/fully offset by regulation changes (aka taxes).
Much like the internet bubble (and unlike the housing bubble) it will lead to over investments which will leave behind a solid infrastructure after implosion, which will benefit us all and the planet. In that sense it is a positive bubble.
Tsing is a f'ing moron, plain and simple. Goodfellow/yodaman, really good comments, you guys/girls are right on. I agree that this is all political and i'm sick of both parties. I'm surprised Biden got out a speech without calling his mother a whore. He must have had triple backup teleprompters just in case.
Im a moron because i support grants given to companies to actually build something IN THIS COUNTRY that will provide useful sustainable jobs, creating a new product that has a good chance at making a huge dent in revitalizing the economy?
Wow. Just wow.
This country was not founded on the idea of "Give failing companies money so I can get reelected"- this country was founded on the fact that people want the best service and they will go to whatever company can provide that. If a major company (GM) cant offer the services a smaller company(Tesla) CAN offer then the larger one should 1) go out of business or 2) reorganize (while not breaking patent laws)
why should I a tax payer have to give money to a company that hasn't posted a profit in 15 years? all you are doing is screwing the small company that can innovate.
@mur Listen, i agree with you on the point of GM, i think the volt is a POS doomed to fail. What im interested in is the AMERICAN company building the batteries for electric cars. We are a country of consumers and our last great export is failing, if we could wedged ourselves into the largest li-ion car battery producing country we could make a big difference to alot of people here in the USA.
Listen guys and gals,
The only way to get out of a recession such as this one is to invest. This has been said by many many scholars and professors from Harvard to Yale and everything in between. Whose word are you going to take? Someone from Stanford or a bureaucrat from D.C.? The same argument was brought up during the great depression, and yes FDR was also accused of being a socialist. The funny thing is that William McKinley was a Conservative Republican, way back who used Socialist economics which made America a world economic power.
He was also assassinated. I love how Republicans hate on FDR. Just because he was a Democrat, and probably the best President we ever had. Yeah he was so bad and terrible, they just elected him 4 straight times for the heck of it.
What I really find fascinating about this bit is that they are throwing all this money at something they suppressed for so long and killed at one point in late 90's - the electric car fully running on battery power, getting 100+ miles per single charge and being as fast, if not faster than most other "normal" cars on the road.
Watch the documentary (the only place I could find the damn 90min video, as Google seems to have pulled it off... conflict of interests in some way? Most likely):
http://www.trilulilu.ro/rokker/8510ca0ccb28a7
After you see that documentary, your thoughts will pretty much go along the lines of everyone else who saw it - these scam artists are just taking people's money and building stuff they've had access to for more than a decade, paying for it with your own money, just so they can compete with Asian manufacturers (guess where all the batteries are made on this planet, including car batteries... correct, Asia).
And then they'll probably rape you up the ass when they try to sell you that electric car, once they actually decide to give up on all the oil profits some 5-10 years down the road from now. I mean, hey, someone's gotta pay up for all those lost oil profits ;)
Preach on Tsing Tao, my man ... the "fiscal conservatives" on this board are all riled up!
What's wrong with fiscal conservatism? Really, I'm asking a legitimate question. I'd like you to explain how living on a budget and not spending money we don't have on things we can't afford is a bad thing.
lol, because you wont have to trust the government to provide for you if you can afford to live by your own means.
Fiscal conservatism is like being a pacifist during a full blown war. You're too slow to react, to scared to act, and cannot act when called upon. It's better to be in between and slide a little to either side when necessary.
Fiscal conservative is like questioning what's in that room before following everyone in to the gas chamber.
I don't think they are fiscal conservatives since I never heard them bitch or moan about the past decade of funding the halliburton types and I don't think they are conservative since they don't seem to appreciate conservation in general. they are simply opposed to this administration and they are not exactly sure why.
Conservative, liberal... good lord! This is madness. Only people with a preexisting psychological condition think in extremes. Good institutions, like sane people, are well in the center and tilt to either side (without going to extremes) when the occasion calls for it.
Biden looks like that "yo dawg" guy.