Vice President Biden announces $2.4 billion in battery-related grants
By Donald Melanson 
posted August 5th 2009 5:17PM
posted August 5th 2009 5:17PM
It hasn't been much of a secret that the US government was planning to dole out a couple of billion in battery-related grants to automakers this week, but we only got the details on who gets what today when Vice President Joe Biden made the big announcement himself in Detroit. As you might expect, the big three automakers all got a sizable chunk of the $2.4 billion up for grabs, with GM snagging $240 million for three separate grants, Ford getting $92.7 million (part of which will fund an electric-drive-parts facility in Michigan), and Chrysler receiving $70 million to develop and deploy advanced plug-in hybrid pickups and minivans. The single biggest winner, however, is Johnson Controls Inc., which got close to $300 million to produce battery parts for hybrid and electric vehicles. Chrysler partner A123 Systems Inc. was the next highest with $249.1 million, while EnerDel got $118.5 million that it'll use for its Indianapolis plant that produces lithium-ion cells and battery packs.
[Image courtesy Wood TV8]
[Image courtesy Wood TV8]
"less significant improvements"...? Isn't that what got the auto industry in the s*** hole it is now? Yes, let's give them more money to put out more inferior products that will ultimately hurt them more in the long run
I don't mind they give 1 or 2 billions to private companies for research such as the one mentioned in the article. Any historian will tell you that the only way to out of a depression or recession is by investing and that requires spending. I'm not making this up, you guys can check with several scholars of our top universities and they will tell you the same. Having said that, if we are going to throw money into battery research, why do we give it to companies that failed the U.S. consumer in the first place?? Where is an innovative upstart like Tesla in all these?? Why give it to GM?? GM went from the EV1 to making SUV after the presidency changed, and they will do the same after the current president steps out. I say, Lets give the small companies with fresh ideas the chance to come up with a solution to our current energy crisis. Otherwise we are maintaining the elite and its unions with our tax money.
will these companies still charge us for R&D when we purchase equipment brought forth by this "grant" money?
I thought so... so we shouldn't have given them anything
I do agree that GM shouldnt get a red cent of ANY money. The volt is not the car we are looking for. Its just a gas powered car with an extra 40 miles that really only ends up being about an extra 4/mpg. Tesla seems like a much better option.
Hey murmermer; once R&D finds a solution to a particular problem, there is more research done to make it a consumer item. Yes we pay for it, so what? You want a solution you and you want it fast? Invest heavily on R&D. Mass production and demand will drive the price down. You think Touch screens were developed by Apple and Palm? Think again. It all takes money. Grow up.
The way I understand the volt, is that unlike the prius, which is a parallel hybrid, the Volt is a series hybrid. It runs on electric until it runs out of batteries, then the gas comes on for range. Basically, if all you do is go to work and home everyday, and you live near work (w/in 20 miles), then you'll never run on gas. Electric there, electric back, plug in overnight.
Johnson Controls Inc. ... (a subsidiary of Biden LLC) :-P
@murmurer wow, hol effing wow.
Batteries have barely improved in two decades. More research is desperately needed in this field. I'm glad the government is investing in batteries instead of more F22's. Loss of F22 construction is not detrimental to the tech industry, only the workers who build the airplanes and the companies who supplied the parts. IMO, this does not affect the American people nearly as much advancement in battery technology. Batteries are almost as important as plastic!
Batteries, laying more fiber optic cable, and support for America's tech industry? Obama's doing it right.
More info: http://www.techforobama.com/
I hope someone breaks into your house so you can see how important protection is. Whether its in your home or in your country, defense is always the best offense.
The YF-22 program was canceled in favor of the cheaper and more versatile F-35. The F-22 was originally designed in the late 80's early 90's to be an air superiority fighter to meet and beat the soviets fourth gen fighters and the rumored stealth aircraft that we still haven't seen (the PAK-FA). The F-35 will have a much greater range of capabilities - later production F-22's have been fitted with a ground attack capability, but it won't be as capable as the F-35. The F35 is fitted with a Distributed Appature System - when combined with a helmet mounted display, the pilot will be able to look 360 degrees as though the airframe was see through. This much greater situational awareness combined with the open architecture of the software will mean that this airframe will be able to be continually upgraded, unlike the F-22. The F-22 supposedly cost $200M apiece, the F-35 should be less than half that for a far more versatile airframe. The F22 is really the last relic of the cold war.
@mur WOW Really? Mother EFFING Really? I know its cliche to say that the person who trades liberty for security deserves nor receives either, but i feel it must be said to you.
I can only assume you were for bush and anything that those morons do. Your kind always preaches about how "Big Gubment" is bad, but yet YOUR the people tapping our phones and reading our emails and invading other countries for your buddies corporations.
@mur Also, im trying to count the amount of times ive heard of a fighter jet stopping a break in.
@Tsing Tao
Well said dude, well said.
No, it's not well said. You guys think this is a two sided battle. Dems vs. Repubs. It's not! It's Government control vs you and me. Period. The best way for the government to improve our economy is to step off the taxes, reduce or eliminate all that they can and give the money we earned back to us so we may make these decisions with our wallets. As it is with Obama/Bush/Dem/Repub, they want to decide for you because it gives them control. It allows them to help their buddies out and it helps to keep both parties in power by pretending to fight over petty shit.
@murmermer
Aren't most people that are a threat already without any answer to the planes available now? In fact don't most them not even have an airforce?
In fact doesn't the airforce themselves see little future in the whole concept of fighters now that they have drones technology flown remotely?
It's not about being against defense but about being against waste in defense spending.
They're giving $30 Million to the Volt program. A program that is slated to lose money on every car sold.
guess how much the Bush administration gave to halliburton
coyo, you keep going on and on about Bush and Halliburton. What's your point? Just because Bush was an idiot who threw a trillion dollars away, that makes it OK for Obama to throw four trillion dollars away? Or are you trying to claim we're all hypocrites because you believe we supported Bush?
Most of us did NOT support Bush. We are fiscal conservatives, Libertarian leaning constitutionalists, by and large. Bush was an idiot who spent money he didn't have, too. Obama is several times worse. I dislike Democrats and Republicans equally, they all lie to us, take our money and use it to implement "exciting new programs" designed to further entrench themselves into our lives and control our every move. Every one of these idiots needs to be thrown out on their asses.
I said get out of America your wacko ideas aren't wanted here!!
NO!
WASTE OF MONEY. That money should have gone to DARPA to manage sustained development of such technology. Handing it to Detriot is worst possible thing they could have done with it. DAMN.
Some of you are pretty funny.
So Bush sends out soldiers to die and billions to support a war that has really done 0 for THIS country in no uncertain terms as well as plunges the country into a recession that has taken peoples homes and jobs away and really, lives away....and you're crying and complaining about giving chump change to a few car companies to help them proliferate hybrid/electric vehicles in hopes of, you know....removing some of the gas guzzling beasts out there right now and possibly extending the life of the planet a bit?
How fickle are we?
A Prius is 24+ thousand right now. Nothing that GE/Chevy/Ford has gets that kind of gas economy - these grants will hopefully curb that. And even if it doesn't, it will at least make it easier to produce and sell hybrid/electric vehicles as the replacement parts will be out there and available. They'll not only SELL for cheaper, but they'll be serviced aftermarket for less as well. This will create a peace-of-mind for consumers who purchase vehicles based on their potential to retain value for resale/trade in and also people who are interested in purchasing used hybrid/electric vehicles.
As far as sub par hybrid vs. mainstream vehicle, the hybrid still wins. Getting 32+ mpg highway is much better than getting 18-22 mpg highway otherwise.
Two things. This is not Bush vs Obama. And if Toyota had no problem creating a fuel efficient car, what's wrong with GM's structure that makes it impossible for them to do the same? When you answer that question, ask yourself this: "Will this change anything?" Now that they know big government won't let them fail, they have a green light to continue down the same road they've been traveling. Business as usual. How's that change working for you?
They also know they are forced to kneel and fire some people and lose some of their creamy salaries.
And that's what's different, bush would have arranged it so they'd have it all and lose nothing and would have kept the whole thing out of the media as much as possible and their names too, and any money allocated would go to companies cheney or the bush family or other close friends happen to have a lot of stock in,
Guess what, Toyota figured out how to create the Prius on their own. Nobody gave them 2.4 billion dollars to figure it out. If American car companies are so shitty they can't be competitive without taking money from you and I, let them go out of business! I don't give one shit about some giant, worthless conglomerate that can't figure out how to be competitive. Screw them.
It must be a real sweet deal, being able to run your business poorly and not have to worry about the consequences because the politicians will come in and just hand you billions of dollars in taxpayer money. What a joke.
Yo dawg....
Economy fix itself for free? Like how it did with Hoover, right? I thought we were making a judgment call based on the evidence, not expressing our conservative views.
There were a couple of economists that studied Hoover's actions and the economy of the time and determined that the economy would have recovered quicker if Hoover had just left it alone. The depression wasn't really over until after the war and if Hoover would have butted out, it would have been over well before.
Here's the hidden problem behind the US becoming dependent on battery power. The US doesn't have the natural resources to make batteries. So, our politicians are lying when they tell us this will get us away from foreign dependency. Especially since the energy has to be produced to fill those batteries. The demand can only be met by carbon (oil, natural gas, propane) or nuke. No, biofuels can not be produced in enough volume to meet even %20 of the demand without taking %80 of our food demand. Solar and Wind don't even come that close.
Next thing we're being lied to about is the impact on the environment. Producing batteries means strip-mining. Thousands of square miles are being sliced away to get at the lithium, nickel, etc. Processing those metals causes massive amounts of toxic waste which is given off directly into the air and water. Don't forget the loss of forests and old growth biomass.
Oil isn't perfect, but in most cases it doesn't cause wholesale destruction to get to it. Putting money towards more efficient use of that oil would have faster returns which would last longer.
Lastly, getting away from oil isn't going to save us money. I'm guessing most people don't know what all comes from oil. The majority of a barrel doesn't go to gasoline/petrol. It goes to chemicals used to make plastics, cutting oils for manufacturing, chemicals for medicines, etc. Also, guess where most natural gas comes from - OIL FIELDS.
The short term answer is to tap the oil fields in the USA. Cut out the foreign producers and we'll cut costs signifcanly. Then take that extra money and invest it in long term solutions that can be met by US resources.
Military Industrial Complex = our tax dollars for better weapons of mass destruction
this = our tax dollars for better batteries
would it help some of you out if I told you that your WMDs will benefit from this battery tech?
Tsing Tao, I more than appreciate your being here. Thank you!
And I thought Windows, and Apple flame wars were intense.
Ill take a couple AAA's, and a few AA's, and fuck it .... I take a 9 volt as well.
Keep spending/wasting the money we don't have. The Govt at it's best.
Hoover's plan didn't fail; it just got cut short by the FDR administration.
I honestly hope that the "recession" breaks California's government in half... they suck. 8.75% sales tax is BS. When gov't runs out of money, they need to stop spending. Giving out IOU's is not a solution.
Well, in theory, you could recycle the resources such as lithium, nickel, lead, etc. in batteries. And is we had a way to charge them using nuclear fusion, we could simply electrolysize water to obtain fuel (hydrogen).
As far as I know the US military is looking to leverage the domestic auto industry to mass produce advanced batteries. Mass production is what the auto industry does best and the reason it was chosen for funding. That way the overall cost can be reduced and there would be a sustainable market for the technology. This funding seems in line with that.
You can debate who the money went to, but in the end this is mostly about national security. For the Army, the cost of gas is $14 during normal times and up to $600 when shipped to remote areas via helicopter. A 1% fuel economy improvement in the military fleet mean 6,500 less soldiers are needed per convoy. Not to mention military fleets would benefit from silent operations, remote power generation, etc...
I guess there are other ways to spend the money or we could not spend it at all. But, it won't all be wasted (I hope).
Ah, a rare level-headed comment! Let's see how the Engadget simpletons respond
I'm really sorry if its been said before but is it me or does biden look like an aging super macho man from punch out?
Fuck them
Oh Engadget...
You ignore what the President was doing today! He was announcing Navistar's good stuff, featuring electric and hybrid trucks, and the millions of federal funding coming in. All of this in our now dead RV industry.
Good, we need a little R&D money dumped into energy storage development. Don't YOU want a PSP with a 24-hour battery life?
More Gov. waste...we don't need electric cars! Has anyone Stop to think where all the power will come from to charge these Cars?
Yes, from Nuclear, Coal, Natural Gas and Oil burning power plants and even at today's cost per Kilowatt hour it will make $5 gas look cheap. Now who wants an electric car??
Drill here! Drill NOW!
Call your congressmen and tell them to vote NO on Cap & Trade, the money you save will be your own!!
I can't believe so many of you are pissed about this story!
This was money that's part of the stimulus package. It's NOT an ADDITIONAL $2.5b.
While I don't like insane amounts of spending, this type is actually useful. Why? Because it's an investment. We're building new factories here to support an industry. This will provide jobs that will last. This type of spending that actually nets a return is much better than any military spending, which is really just a fiscal black hole. Yes, military spending provides jobs, but it requires a neverending stream of a cash year after year to support it.
This country would be in MUCH better shape if we shaved off even 10% off the military budget so we could spend it on something useful.
Where was the conservative bitching when Bush was wasting money?
You think Obama wants to make the deficit worse? Do you honestly think he's thinking up ways to spend taxdollars on trivial things? He investing in America. Healthcare, that's an investment in you the American. These grants for battery tech is investment for America. I can't think of a better way the government can work for betterment of America than research grants.